Dyatlov Pass Forum
Theories Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: John Proxy on September 12, 2024, 05:01:50 PM
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Hello world! New here but have been following this off and on for about 3 years. Recently here in America there was an exploration documentary on TV that was done in 2019 retracing the tracks and going to Dyatlov pass. It re-ignited the curiosity in me to look deeper into this as I have a lot of free time on my hands now. As a little background, I have done a lot of digital forensic work on retrieving data and building a timeline of deceased individuals in cases of suicide vs murder here in the states and have a pretty good track record.
Here is my theory with the data I have observed so far. It is subject to change based on conversation and other pieces of data that might disconnect my theory from the truth that I have not read.
I think we can all agree the tent is the epic center of whatever triggered the events that followed. If we look at the last photos taken of them preparing a place to pitch the tent, we can see that the weather conditions have deteriorated even more than in the previous pictures taken in the morning. What else does the picture tell us?
https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Unknown-origin-Dyatlov-photos-11.jpg
There are only 4 people, which includes the person taking the picture working on the site. Where are the other 5 people? I think they were down in the ravine, making their snow cave as a backup plan if anything went wrong with their cold camp and if they were preparing a backup plan a fire would be part of it. I believe the wood that was sawed off the tree was in fact done so but not in the middle of the night during a snow and violent windstorm but earlier in the afternoon. That is why there are no saws found there. They took them back to the camp after they completed their task. Note also that the ravine is near a precious resource. Water. The tree line near the cache site they made does not appear to have water and appears to be harder trek than where they went into the ravine / tree line. It is also closer to the planned route as well.
I think we are concentrating too much on the fact that “someone” cut the tent. I know what the forensics say in 1959 but there are no artifacts to support this conclusion I have found. From the data I read that the tent was two tents stitched together. The tent was in disrepair, and they even wrote about having to keep it patched up. I believe a very powerful katabatic windstorm (60-80MPH winds or more) came up on them evening, middle of the night, who knows but at some point, hurricane windstorm tore their dilapidated tent to the point they had to exit. They had their backup plan, but they didn’t expect the storm and conditions they currently found themselves in. It was far worse than they could imagine.
The hikers march single file down the tree line to fall back on their backup plan. They walked like they knew where they were going in my opinion. They get to the tree line and build a fire, and they go through the wood they had gathered rather quickly but it is simply not enough heat because of the extreme cold and wind. I believe the rest of the group retreated to the snow cave and came out to check on their friends Doroshenko and Krivonischenko who were trying to keep the fire going and found them dead as they had been exposed to the elements more than the rest of the group. They took their clothes. These were the first people to die, I think.
While getting back into the snow cave it collapses, trapping 4 of the remaining 7 hikers. Dyatlov, Komogorova and slobin witness this. The campfire is a failure, the snow cave is a failure, and the only thing left to do is go back to the tent, get a shovel and possibly save their friends. It would be the only reason in my opinion to return to the tent and not stay in the safety of the forest. Hypothermia starts to sit in, and they don’t really realize how bad off they really are.
I think Slobodin skull fracture is the result of freezing out in the open with his neck possibly exposed. He could also have fallen while walking back up to the tent from the ravine. It is the only piece that looks like it could spin another theory, but I think those two scenarios are the cause for his injury.
It might just be that simple.
The other theories that have been mentioned I do not see the data to bring myself to those conclusions. I do not see the data that supports.
1- A missile test or some kind of radiation experiment. - The whole place and everyone would send a Geiger counter off the charts. The reason why radiation showed up on clothing and the explanation why the small reading is present makes perfect sense. No craters or data showing anything explosive
2- Humans forced them out of the tent. - There is simply no evidence of any of this. With the current weather conditions that we know to have existed, no other humans were standing out in the middle of nowhere as they would be subject to freeze to death as well.
3- Animals. – Again, there is no evidence to support this. In the current weather conditions of the camp the animals were down in the forest. The same place where the hikers were headed for the same reason. Cover.
4- Yeti, UFO, Ball lighting, Time Portal, poisonous gases. – The data just is not there to support any of these things no matter how outside of the box thinking is applied. The data is simply just not there to make those conclusions.
5- A fight or disagreement among the group. – I do not see the data to make that conclusion. Fighting people don’t all walk down the mountain together and there would be physical evidence of clothes, being ripped or blood stained.
J Proxy
Peace on earth, goodwill towards men.
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Hi John proxy.
Welcome to the rabbit hole.
Just to start, I think there's 6 people in that two photos if you cross compare , at least 5 , so there's only 2 or 3 people directly missing from the photo from what we can see , or what we think we see.
The tent was definitely cut, whether that's during the incident of the fatal night or when the searchers tried to get in is open to debate..the description of it not being torn apart at least makes some logic . Someone cut across the grain/ weave and I personally don't have an argument against me that.
Water is definitely important.
I don't think they walked down the slope in single file, it was abreast ..
I don't think they had a shovel.
I think that the rib fractures are due to some snow collapse at the ravine.
Other than that I'm as lost as everyone.
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"The tent was definitely cut, whether that's during the incident of the fatal night or when the searchers tried to get in is open to debate..the description of it not being torn apart at least makes some logic . Someone cut across the grain/ weave and I personally don't have an argument against me that. "
is there a picture artifact of this? I can't seem to locate anything but a picture of the whole tent.
J Proxy.
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https://dyatlovpass.com/1959-search#the-tent
And here.
https://dyatlovpass.com/case-files-303-304
I'm sure there's more as I was looking at it today..there's three cuts that are recorded as specifically being done from the inside and across the weave. Closer to the entrance.
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Thanks for the reply and info. These were the ones I was referring to that show the whole tent. I was kind of expecting to see something much closer up to the tent with a ruler etc. There appears to be some other issues with the accuracy of the drawing as well. What i find interesting is in the drawing on the link you provided with all the cuts measured and why some were there.. You know what is missing? There is nothing show any of the patching that was described in the diary entries I have read. Those are the things that having me questioning to accuracy as to it being cut from the inside.
J Proxy
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Tourists and mountaineers cut their tents only in one case, when it is covered with snow during a strong wind. People are sleeping in a tent. The wind blows snow and the tent collapses under the weight of the snow. It becomes impossible to breathe and the tent is cut.
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In the second link there is a ruler in the photos . There is a third link that I was looking at today but I can't find it at the moment..it's a bit more detailed and I think it's in the case files. I'm not sure if patches as such were made or if some of the sewing was just reattaching the two tents along the initial sewing lines.
With regards to any sewing of holes or patches, I don't think that would be of interest to the investigates as they are self explanatory.
The point of the unexplained cuts in the tent fabric are ...1) they were not tares , as the description explains the nature of tares in the weave. They were cuts.
2) there seems to be scores on the inside of the fabric before the material/ weave is cut , these scratches extend before the cut . This suggests that whatever cut the tent , the blade or cutting tool , was done from the inside as opposed to the outside.
That's just a fact. Whether that was a searcher for example putting his hand in from the outside with a blade and pulling it towards himself , we don't know, but the reporting of the fact that the cutting of the tent material was done from the interior seems true. I don't think there's any reason to lie. How it happened is anyone's guess.
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So I need to do some research on how tents are repaired. Are they cut and then hemmed and then sew together? Anyone know? When you repair clothing you always doing from the inside.
J proxy
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I don't think you need to research on how tents are repaired? . Holes occur in canvas , their tent might have been a bit old for sure. So small holes could be stitched, bigger holes or tears may need a patch. But a tear or patch would be obvious to Investigators, they do not report the the ware and tear of the tent.
It's not a matter of repairing from the inside or outside as there were no repairs to the three large cuts ,1,2 and 3 . Cuts 1 , 2 and 3 went through the weave at a diagonal angle , which , as I understand it, what they describe means a cut and not a rip. A rip will follow the vertical or the horizontal of the weave of the material, not both.
About the number of people in the last photo , I made this poor attempt to show the movement, I can't claim to have noticed this as it was inspired from another website where they link the two last photos in quick succession.
https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=1562.msg24194#msg24194
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The lack of identification of patches in the drawing and examination is bothering me. They should be labeled as well.
J Proxy.
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Perhaps , I struggled with it too though if that helps.
The tent was made out of two similar tents , where it joined in the middle it would have had some serious stitching at some point in time.
There is no need to mention patches or stitching as that would be self evident. The investigators are only reporting what should not be there or what is there that they don't understand or is unusual.
A cut is unusual as opposed to a tear , a tear could be caused by the wind , the poor handling of the tent by the searchers etc. A cut is a deliberate action by something or someone ,meaning , the are reporting that those three cuts( there are lots of holes/tears as we can see in the photo) were done by deliberately, with no repairs , patches, or sewing afterwards. When the investigators received that tent from the helicopter that took it from the hillside and they got in the office to look at under a microscope, they found the side panels of the tent had been cut. They report that the cuts had been made from the inside as the material showed signs of the cutting instrument/tool/ knife starting and making marks before it had penetrated the material/canvas. That's all they report . We fill in the blanks and argue ....
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"We fill in the blanks and argue ...."
Haha too funny.. Truth!
J Proxy
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Apparently, Natalya Saharova, who is a forensics expert and look at the case has observations about the tent examination that bothers her as much as it does me.
https://dyatlovpass.com/natalya-saharova-KP?rbid=18461
J Proxy.
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The Dyatlov pass is full of experts , as are our governments and financial banking experts, yet people still starve and are poor.
I think she wrote this in 2014 but some things have come to light since.
Ultimately, everything seems to follow a slightly apathetic search and rescue process . A number of reasons are put forward for the delay but it starts on the 20th I think with helicopters and aeroplanes.
From the searchers perspective they were hoping, or expecting to find them alive , until the first body was found no one any facts to suspect anything.
A number of speculations are discussed amongst the various people involved from top to bottom of the command and at different times . ( One being they might have tried to leave the country) Remember, we get hit with 5 months of information in one go with details that the searchers wouldn't have had , it's obvious to us , in hindsight, why didn't they take more photographs, why didn't they look after the tent,etc. We get frustrated and it can look like a cover-up from the information we now have .
There was another group of hikers that went missing or were delayed on returning from their hike, this may have caused some confusion with paper work and people getting the two incidents mixed up.
Every effort is made to find the route of the hikers and searchers are dropped off at the beginning and ending of the known route and in-between. This is a sensible search and rescue approach, there's no conspiracy in that action.
The tent is eventually found on the 26th , it has hard snow on top of it and the two searchers have a look inside, they say they used an ice axe to come in from the top and maybe made a hole when doing so, they later state that they weren't told what to if they found the tent, no one had been instructed what to do in the event of it being a crime scene, there was no reason to suspect a crime.
They found 4 bodies the day after , the first 2 were found by following the footsteps down the slope . More speculation occurs amongst the searchers , was it the wind, a hurricane, a rocket, Mansi etc
The belongings are counted and documented at the tent , there are no immediate signs of foot prints around the tent .( Remember, the snow and wind have been blowing for 3 weeks) . The footprints that are found say 8 or 9 separate paths are found, some in socks or bare feet and some in boots or shoes.
When they find the first 4 bodies they are in socks or bare feet , which is basically the day after the discovery of the tent . Everything looks like they left the tent at went to the tree line under their own will or choice.
The sappers with metal detectors decided that it won't help because there is there is perhaps not enough metal on the rest of the victims so they prope the slope going down , day by day . The 5th hiker is found shortly after . From the autopsy of the first 5 hikers , nothing untoward is found other than bruising, minor cuts, frostbite and burns on the hikers next to the fire. Slobidin is found to have a fracture in his skull but no swelling at the fracture. This is suggested as falling. ( Later possible knowledge about freezing, found that as fluids freeze they expand and has caused minor fractures in skulls).
So that's all the information the investigators have up to mid March . Diaries are looked at and the photos are developed . Mansi are questioned, the tent is looked at and I think it was an expert, not some random seamstress.
From mid March until May the 5th , over 6 weeks , nothing is found, searchers are tired and perhaps burnt out. When the last 4 bodies are found they have decayed and this is explained in the autopsy. The rib fractures and skull fracture do raise questions because they are hard to explain for some as the damage is unusual in that environment.
We have a number of suggestions for these broken bones , I lean towards a snow cave collapse in that ravine directly on top of them. Others suggest they fell in to the ravine , perhaps through a snow bridge, teddy presents us with a fallen tree ( which there are tree ring dates of a fallen tree at the ceder) , others suggest a fight, clubs , outsiders.
I could go on but the point is , the investigation doesn't seem to be botched as such , it just got stranger as time went on. Silence and embarrassment by the institution's may have came after , they couldn't explain it , safety and procedures by the UPI would be questioned , the cold war is going on, rockets are being tested , everyone is secretive, there's not much they can do about it , it was an accident or....it's one of the 99 odd versions .
I suggest reading the case files and the radiograms if you haven't already, the reports seem quite factual and shows mild confusion with what they should be doing which leaves thinking that there's no cover up.
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If I understand this proposal, the tourists split in two groups, one to make camp, the other to shape a den. To me this is an unfair,division of labor based on a remote probability of needing a den. Next, if a den was made, then having a fire at the cedar makes less sense to me than waiting and making fire at the den.
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We have a number of suggestions for these broken bones , I lean towards a snow cave collapse in that ravine directly on top of them. Others suggest they fell in to the ravine , perhaps through a snow bridge, teddy presents us with a fallen tree ( which there are tree ring dates of a fallen tree at the ceder) , others suggest a fight, clubs , outsiders.
Since you are so confident and have been studying the Dyatlov group for many years, this confidence is probably based on some facts. You have probably studied the topic of collapse of snow caves dug by tourists. There are many videos on YouTube of cave construction, where people build them, spend the night in them and film the whole process. Tell me, is there at least one case when a cave collapsed on people and broke their bones? Please provide a link to this case.
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We have a number of suggestions for these broken bones , I lean towards a snow cave collapse in that ravine directly on top of them. Others suggest they fell in to the ravine , perhaps through a snow bridge, teddy presents us with a fallen tree ( which there are tree ring dates of a fallen tree at the ceder) , others suggest a fight, clubs , outsiders.
Since you are so confident and have been studying the Dyatlov group for many years, this confidence is probably based on some facts. You have probably studied the topic of collapse of snow caves dug by tourists. There are many videos on YouTube of cave construction, where people build them, spend the night in them and film the whole process. Tell me, is there at least one case when a cave collapsed on people and broke their bones? Please provide a link to this case.
Олег Таймень , I can assure you that I am not confident about anything regarding the Dyatlov pass. I said I lean towards the fractures being caused by a snow collapse. The fractures seem to be where the bodies lie on the hard surface and have received a force from the opposite side.
There are a number of deaths each year by snow dens collapsing , sadly sometimes children and families making a snow den in their back garden. These are mostly suffocation but I think there's at least 3 cases in the media of snow bridges collapsing, one was a large snow bridge , another smaller and two young children got crushed . I can't remember the details but I think one died but the other definitely received broken bones.
I think the difference is the solid ground and obviously the mass/ weight above and also how the snow releases. I believe snow has slid off of many roofs on top of people but that pours off, so the mass/force is not in one sudden movement .
Somewhere in my previous posts/ rambling I provide links. I think one of the experts from zolos examination suggests that it was similar to a crushing incident like a mass of snow. Finding a partly made snow bridge or cave could have seemed like a gift .
The ravine 4 are found under 3-4 meters of snow at ground level and I have to question why or how did they end up there. If there was no snow in the ravine on the night of the incident, then that snow drifted in and filled that whole ravine in the following 3 weeks ,I guess that's possible but I have to ask where the broken bones came from and who put the bodies there and why, I can't think of any logical reason for that .
For me, all the activity at the ceder and the ravine looks like an effort for survival and something went wrong . The Dyatlov pass is not yet concluded and I don't claim to be any kind of expert on any of it , I flex with what I think , I read as many ideas and opinions about it as I can.
Олег Таймень , you obviously don't think the fractures accursed by a snow collapse, through your research and involvement in the case, what do you think caused the broken bones?
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I don't understand why the theory is called simple. While I was reading this text, and then further objections to it, my head swelled.
I don't even know where to start the text, I'm so puzzled.
I recently compiled a whole book, as I see the theory of the incident (it's somewhere in the neighboring thread), and I see strong discrepancies with my version.
My version is closer to Ivanov's version, but it explains those things that he could not explain.
But I've m so many theories have been collected (I initially wanted to offer them for posting on this site, but Theodora is constantly traveling, so in the end I put them in a book.) so it is usual for me to analize and improve another versions< to find funny moments in them...
So, don't refuse from yout ideas!
Indeed, the photo shows 3 people in full height, and two hands of people who are caught up.
If you did not notice this fact, then you are a bad criminologist.
The sixth person is taking a photo. Krivonishenko with a sheath for a knife, which was probably used to cut the tent.
This is very likely.
Now about the missing people.
I heard the theory that 4 people went down for water from a blogger, an Orthodox priest named Leonid Glebetz.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XF4Rzlmd4Wk
Unfortunately, his own YouTube channel has now been deleted for political propaganda in other videos,
so I remember his theory about Dyatlov very approximately. But this was the first time I heard about 4 separated people.
On the other hand, it's good that he disappeared, otherwise I would not have resisted the temptation to place his theory in a book and offer it for the site.
If we develop this theory further, then it remains to assume that 4 people went for water (or for firewood),
personally for me, this theory seems strange, like a bad dream, because I have traveled in the Carpathians and have some experience.
If 6 people remained at the tent, in total we have 10 people. Presumably, this is the second Zolotaryov.
Perhaps he was carrying out some kind of mission. A man was found in a ravine, who on one hand resembled Zolotaryov,
and on the other hand he had strange tattoos on his arms (elbows), and his teeth didn't match.
I also had a version that the tenth man was Fantomas, who came from France to the figurine festival,
but the forum administration forbade me to develop this version.
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We have a number of suggestions for these broken bones , I lean towards a snow cave collapse in that ravine directly on top of them. Others suggest they fell in to the ravine , perhaps through a snow bridge, teddy presents us with a fallen tree ( which there are tree ring dates of a fallen tree at the ceder) , others suggest a fight, clubs , outsiders.
Since you are so confident and have been studying the Dyatlov group for many years, this confidence is probably based on some facts. You have probably studied the topic of collapse of snow caves dug by tourists. There are many videos on YouTube of cave construction, where people build them, spend the night in them and film the whole process. Tell me, is there at least one case when a cave collapsed on people and broke their bones? Please provide a link to this case.
There are a number of deaths each year by snow dens collapsing , sadly sometimes children and families making a snow den in their back garden. These are mostly suffocation but I think there's at least 3 cases in the media of snow bridges collapsing, one was a large snow bridge , another smaller and two young children got crushed . I can't remember the details but I think one died but the other definitely received broken bones.
Олег Таймень , you obviously don't think the fractures accursed by a snow collapse, through your research and involvement in the case, what do you think caused the broken bones?
We are not talking about suffocation in a snow cave. We are talking about broken ribs of adults whose bones have already formed and are strong enough. I myself have searched a lot on the Internet for similar cases. I have not found any. If you provide a link to at least one similar tragedy, I will believe that this is possible. I ask you to look for similar cases of tragedies.
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I've said I posted a couple before , I can't find them at the minute, they're in my posts but I think I refrained from posting a picture as I felt they were too recent so it would just be links and I didn't want to upset families of those in the article.
When I say children, I think it was teenagers and I know your not talking about suffocation but these accidents happen due to children and parents doing these activities so that's just what gets recorded more often and is easier to find.
It is much rarer occurrence to have a mass off snow fall all at once on top of a person that is at ground level. Most snow holes/ caves are dug into snow drifts closer to the top of the snow level with snow below.
I believe a snow den is when you dig to the ground and cover the floor with fir and make a roof . So these cases are extremely rare that are similar to what may have happened in the ravine .
I can't remember the words I used to find the articles and it took me some time. I've been looking through my old posts but haven't found the link yet. But there are references to medical data of transport accidents and crush injures on rib fractures. The ribs break at the weakest point of the curvature from the force being applied. This is obvious in our minds when we think of an impact if a person was traveling in a car without a seat belt but I believe seat belts can also break ribs.
It is the nature of the break lines on the ribs that suggests a force and the rib cage is empty with curved bones . If the ravine 4 were lying on their sides or backs and 2 meters of damp snow released at once then I can see crush injures. The femur and other bones won't have been compromised or in positions of stress against the hard ground . There might have been some dislocation to joints etc but I don't know if they would have looked at that in the autopsy. ( Not that would have helped) .
I don't think we need to find a tragedy to believe that a mass of snow falling onto a ribcage on a hard surface could break ribs. That is possible, whether that's what happened at the ravine is another question.
I'll try and find what I found .
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Rescuers say the teens weren't crushed because several large boulders held up giant chunks of ice, creating a small space for them. After viewing photos of the rescue scene, Gelmini said, “it's hard to believe I lived through that.” Both suffered broken backs and injured ankles.
"The ice cave was in a ravine bordered by sheer rock walls on either side. The ravine had filled with snow, and a small creek, or cascade of melted snow, had carved out a cave, with a roof of compacted snow and ice. The boys were several yards inside the mouth of the cave when it collapsed."
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https://youtu.be/DlDxgo-L7DM?si=iQ7xhUuQjxZE_gX3
@30 secs a small part of this ice cave thawing breaks off. You can get an idea of what 'might' have happened.
The ravine 4 might have been in a smaller version of what you see above and yes the consistency of the ice/snow would be different. But with sufficient density and weight , a roof could break off and crush ribs especially if they had been extending the lower part with tools, feet or legs. We know snow bridges or caves extend over ravines and streams cut pathways . We are all stuck with options to these ribs broke , a tree is a plausible suggestion which I don't rule out but that also raises other questions, as does outsiders, I lean towards some kind of snow collapse at the ravine because it seem possible and takes less jumps than some other theories.
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Similar case is described here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0kn19x2VLE
(KP military observer): So, in 1976, we conducted exercises in Transcarpathia. The motorized rifle squad, working out the task, stopped for the night. They were taught… But fools teach, and they are smart… Dig a hole to the ground, lay out a fire, warm up the fire, remove it. He burned out, showered with spruce branches, went to bed. Otherwise, it's not interesting… They found a crevice. These wise men dug a hole that could not be reached with a hand, developed a fire, raked the fire, covered it with spruce branches. Saved by the fact that they put a sentry. After all, it is supposed to put a sentry in the field.
The sentry defended his own, came up, kicked someone in the heel that it was necessary to change him, settled down in his place to go to bed, smoked before going to bed… And at this time, a 4-meter cornice, which was higher, silently descended. The one who was sitting on all fours survived immediately, because when it hit him… he, like a hare, jerked forward in leaps, leaving two pairs of traces from the front and hind legs.
The sentry moved away, he sees: someone is running. And they began to dig out these smart people who were lying there, in a warm place. Two of them had severe fractures, although it seems like why? But firstly, the soil is frozen, on which, although the fire burned, it did not thaw the soil. And the second one had a machine gun at his side, and he had a fracture of all the ribs along the median line. The other has a damaged spine, and nothing more… Thank God, no one suffocated. They dug them up quickly. And so it's all right there.
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I have seen only 3 videos of possible cornice here (in position from 800 seconds)
1) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ypthl4yE4a8&t=800s
(skip 13-14 minutes from beginning, please)
2) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A52SmAAHbHk&t=1236s
(by Oleg Taimen itself)
3) Mistical trek in February 1999 (TAU - Ural Televison agency) - similar to Oleg Taimen
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vo1EVxh8cRQ&t=2019s
or here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4V0NnXL5t_k
Snow mass in video #2 (prelast winter) and #3/#4 (1999) is not a big, unlike video of winter 2015
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I am not inclined to fantasize. There is a Russian proverb - "If only mushrooms would grow in your mouth...". I don't know how it sounds in English, but in Russian it is a very successful rhyme that characterizes fantasies.
There are facts of snow caves collapsing on people. People did not break their ribs during these collapses. Not in a single case. Such facts are on the Internet. They are not difficult to find and I looked for them and carefully studied them. Everything is logical there. If the snow is soft and can be dug, then it is safe for the ribs. This is not concrete. This is snow. This snow was dug. It was dug very recently!!!
There is not a single fact that a person's ribs were broken during the collapse of a dug snow cave. Since there are no such cases, it is impossible.
If anyone wants to fantasize, please do so. It is your right.
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Here is a cave collapse. In Altai, the tourists' tent was torn by the wind. They had to dig a cave. In the morning it collapsed.
(https://i.ibb.co/GMGCZWG/Screenshot-17.png) (https://ibb.co/KsBVt2B)
(https://i.ibb.co/nkZ9kmc/Screenshot-18.png) (https://ibb.co/h8hb89W)
(https://i.ibb.co/ggTPMV9/Screenshot-19.png) (https://ibb.co/Jk7yRQt)
(https://i.ibb.co/zF6sTtG/Screenshot-20.png) (https://ibb.co/hcYsJTD)
(https://i.ibb.co/L8jN0qz/Screenshot-21.png) (https://ibb.co/Dtcr16D)
(https://i.ibb.co/ZNkz4GK/Screenshot-22.png) (https://ibb.co/V3PYnJD)
(https://i.ibb.co/XZ3Brk9/Screenshot-23.png) (https://ibb.co/WWP94pQ)
(https://i.ibb.co/SmznVjn/Screenshot-24.png) (https://ibb.co/DMZCwJC)
(https://i.ibb.co/cwrSVrH/Screenshot-25.png) (https://ibb.co/Jqswgs4)
(https://i.ibb.co/cYf5zVK/Screenshot-26.png) (https://ibb.co/FHZvGCk)
(https://i.ibb.co/vj06SLW/Screenshot-27.png) (https://ibb.co/jrnPS3Y)
(https://i.ibb.co/BNCM2Rx/Screenshot-28.png) (https://ibb.co/RyDwTWm)
Who can guess how many ribs were broken?
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Now I ask for your proof that ribs break when caves collapse.
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Similar case is described here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0kn19x2VLE
(KP military observer): So, in 1976, we conducted exercises in Transcarpathia. The motorized rifle squad, working out the task, stopped for the night. They were taught… But fools teach, and they are smart… Dig a hole to the ground, lay out a fire, warm up the fire, remove it. He burned out, showered with spruce branches, went to bed. Otherwise, it's not interesting… They found a crevice. These wise men dug a hole that could not be reached with a hand, developed a fire, raked the fire, covered it with spruce branches. Saved by the fact that they put a sentry. After all, it is supposed to put a sentry in the field.
The sentry defended his own, came up, kicked someone in the heel that it was necessary to change him, settled down in his place to go to bed, smoked before going to bed… And at this time, a 4-meter cornice, which was higher, silently descended. The one who was sitting on all fours survived immediately, because when it hit him… he, like a hare, jerked forward in leaps, leaving two pairs of traces from the front and hind legs.
The sentry moved away, he sees: someone is running. And they began to dig out these smart people who were lying there, in a warm place. Two of them had severe fractures, although it seems like why? But firstly, the soil is frozen, on which, although the fire burned, it did not thaw the soil. And the second one had a machine gun at his side, and he had a fracture of all the ribs along the median line. The other has a damaged spine, and nothing more… Thank God, no one suffocated. They dug them up quickly. And so it's all right there.
Thank you axelrod. There was definitely a lot of snow in the ravine in 1959 .
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I am not inclined to fantasize. There is a Russian proverb - "If only mushrooms would grow in your mouth...". I don't know how it sounds in English, but in Russian it is a very successful rhyme that characterizes fantasies.
There are facts of snow caves collapsing on people. People did not break their ribs during these collapses. Not in a single case. Such facts are on the Internet. They are not difficult to find and I looked for them and carefully studied them. Everything is logical there. If the snow is soft and can be dug, then it is safe for the ribs. This is not concrete. This is snow. This snow was dug. It was dug very recently!!!
There is not a single fact that a person's ribs were broken during the collapse of a dug snow cave. Since there are no such cases, it is impossible.
If anyone wants to fantasize, please do so. It is your right.
Relax Олег Таймень. If we take away one fantasy , we only replace it with another fantasy . I note you have not committed to what your fantasy is?.
Because there are no such cases , or you have not found one does not make it impossible. The snow caves you give as examples are slightly different, the ground is softer and the snow seems to slowly break off or collapse as opposed to a sudden mass. The total roof has not collapsed.
It would be the speed and mass of that impact with bodies next to the hard ground that raises the probability. Snow cave / hole / dugout and snow consistency will all play it's part.
We have a saying in the UK " don't get you knickers in a twist" , I don't know how it sounds in Russian but in English it characterizes people that get annoyed at something without good reason.
So you rule out a snow collapse causing the broken ribs, please bring forward your factual explanation.
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Олег Таймень.,
I find you without any comment about your views or explanation of the Dyatlov pass incident.
Not that you don't comment and give other people's opinions.
I for one would love to hear your thoughts. You have put nothing forward, yet you have the swagger of someone that knows more than others.
Explain yourself and thoughts.
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Maybe I missed something in my study of the DPI. I don't recall any talk of a snow cave, but of a snow den. The so called Ravine Four were freezing, so they hurriedly dug (using only their hands) a trench. They piled the snow that they removed on the surface above to help block the wind. From what I've read, there was no roof or walls of snow. It was part of the trench itself that broke away, which caused the four to fall into the ravine below.
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You can imagine that three people fell somewhere, three guys.
But judging by Dubinina's position, it is hard to imagine that she fell from somewhere.
When I saw the video from the winter of 2015, I immediately got the idea
that they entered a trench in the darkness, this thench was previously washed out by water (Dubinina was the last one after guys),
and the 3-meter wall of this trench collapsed on them from the side of 1079.
Such a picture usually does not arise in the imagination, because it is hard to imagine the relief that Denis Doropey and his team witnessed.
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Олег Таймень.,
I find you without any comment about your views or explanation of the Dyatlov pass incident.
Not that you don't comment and give other people's opinions.
I for one would love to hear your thoughts. You have put nothing forward, yet you have the swagger of someone that knows more than others.
Explain yourself and thoughts.
Let me repeat that I am not inclined to fantasize. Only facts. So far I only have a list of possible situations as a result of which tourists get broken ribs in the mountains. I check and research these situations during winter hikes to Dyatlov Pass. Cave collapse is not on this list. Because a collapsed cave does not break ribs. Never.
I want to clarify... The fact that a collapsed cave did not break ribs does not mean that this cave did not exist. Most likely it did. It was dug by tourists as a shelter from the wind. I would do the same in their place. Most tourists would do the same.
I would like to invite you to a winter hike to Dyatlov Pass, so that you have a clearer understanding of what happens and what does not happen. I promise that together with you we will dig a cave in that very place and spend the night in it. This winter Stas and I are going to the pass together. This is the one who runs around in socks. You will be the third participant. I assure you, sitting on the couch you will not achieve the solution to the tragedy.
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Maybe I missed something in my study of the DPI. I don't recall any talk of a snow cave, but of a snow den. The so called Ravine Four were freezing, so they hurriedly dug (using only their hands) a trench. They piled the snow that they removed on the surface above to help block the wind. From what I've read, there was no roof or walls of snow. It was part of the trench itself that broke away, which caused the four to fall into the ravine below.
You must have missed it. I didn't start the snow cave concept . Yes there was the den , that's with the flooring of branches we can see in the photos . The concept of the snow cave / snow bridge / cornice is an effort to explain how the the ravine 4 got where they were found .
They have no frostbite , they have the most serious injuries, these injuries seemed to happen when they were alive . They were found under 3 meters of snow , at ground level . So there must be a cave, snow bridge or no snow in that ravine at ground level on February the 2nd . If there was no snow ( or very little) then someone put them there , I have not heard any reason for that, I do not think anyone wasted energy digging a hole . Also, by the 27th of February, tons of snow has filled the ravine , that's on top of the den and the ravine 4.
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Олег Таймень.,
I find you without any comment about your views or explanation of the Dyatlov pass incident.
Not that you don't comment and give other people's opinions.
I for one would love to hear your thoughts. You have put nothing forward, yet you have the swagger of someone that knows more than others.
Explain yourself and thoughts.
Let me repeat that I am not inclined to fantasize. Only facts. So far I only have a list of possible situations as a result of which tourists get broken ribs in the mountains. I check and research these situations during winter hikes to Dyatlov Pass. Cave collapse is not on this list. Because a collapsed cave does not break ribs. Never.
I want to clarify... The fact that a collapsed cave did not break ribs does not mean that this cave did not exist. Most likely it did. It was dug by tourists as a shelter from the wind. I would do the same in their place. Most tourists would do the same.
I would like to invite you to a winter hike to Dyatlov Pass, so that you have a clearer understanding of what happens and what does not happen. I promise that together with you we will dig a cave in that very place and spend the night in it. This winter Stas and I are going to the pass together. This is the one who runs around in socks. You will be the third participant. I assure you, sitting on the couch you will not achieve the solution to the tragedy.
I will repeat , or rather , dare to fantasize, as you put it, that somehow the ribs were broken at the location where the bodies of the ravine 4 were found.
When I say, I lean towards that is what happened, it means , out of all the theories ( fantasies) put forward, this seems to be the most likely. The theory( fantasizing) of others or outsiders , a tree , rockets or the injuries occuring at the tent from an avalanche are on the lower end of probabilities for me at this time.
There are a number of people that support this idea across the Dyatlov community. As you say ,you have a number of ideas , I would like to hear your list of possible situations as to how these injuries occurred. I will refrain from accusing them as being fantasies or "mushrooms growing in the mouth " .
I am grateful and humbled for the invite. Regrettably, this is not achievable , this year at least. I do not sit on the couch and try to achieve the solution to the tragedy, I sit on the fence and lean.
However, I am glad you have joined the debate and respect your viewpoints and experience . I would love to hear your thoughts on how these injuries occurred and I suspect everyone else will to .
If no snow collapse at the ravine can break ribs or fracture a skull, how did it come to be they had those injuries? .
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Many things puzzle me when I try to imagine that a ton of snow falling on these people broke their bones, but what puzzles me most is the position Dubinina was found in. It seems that tons of snow falling on her would have knocked her over, at least.
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Dubinina's posture suggests she was either returning to her companions or she was dehydrated and drinking or she was distancing herself from them. I support the idea that she was rejoining the group after being driven out by the pressure of a collapse of snow at the den, but she was too lethargic to climb up owing to hypothermia. So she just went to sleep and passed into oblivion. I have no idea whether water was running or not when she died. She was found much later on.
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I also get stuck on the ravine 4. Without outsiders I can only suggest that on their way in the treeline Dubinina and/or some of them fell through a snow bridge , just around that small water fall , that area would potentially have the weakest cutout underneath if water had been flowing under the snow .
If the sides of that hole were too steep to climb out , then perhaps what we are seeing is a rescue attempt from the others to rescue Dubinina. The two Yuri's might have done the first digging along the stream cutout and got wet and went to remove some of their clothing and start the fire, the others were preparing the flooring for Dubinina , the other three entered this snow arch to carry on with enlarging the hole to drag her out , the snow above collapsed entombing them. Zina, Dyatlov and Slobidin try to dig them out but can't do anymore , the two Yuri's have started to fail from the wet and cold, they are then moved by the last three , away from the last of the embers and the decision is made to try and regain anything they can from the tent.
Everyone is allowed to shout fantasy ...I'm just trying to put forward an idea as no one else is saying anything. kewl1
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The fact that they fell somewhere into the snow, it seems, these fantasies were voiced either by prosecutor Shkryabach with his preliminary conclusions, or by prosecutor Kuryakov during the prosecutor's inspection in 2019-2020.
How can the position of their bodies indicate that they actually fell?
How can the dynamics of the fall lead to such a position of the bodies?
I can't imagine this.
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The fact that they fell somewhere into the snow, it seems, these fantasies were voiced either by prosecutor Shkryabach with his preliminary conclusions, or by prosecutor Kuryakov during the prosecutor's inspection in 2019-2020.
How can the position of their bodies indicate that they actually fell?
How can the dynamics of the fall lead to such a position of the bodies?
I can't imagine this.
I agree with your observations axelrod, I'm not sure who you are replying to in this post.
If it's my last post , I imagine ( fantasize) that one of them fell in to a deep hole , with no life changing injuries , IE: the ravine but couldn't get out.
I propose the other bodies got trapped. If that makes any sense.
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I seem to recall that the den or a den was made by Mansi in this location for use while hunting or herding. If so, there would be depth to it. Then if the ravine 4 stumbled upon it unawares, perhaps it was a fall hazard. Did anyone figure out how they got in the den otherwise? When the den was discovered and uncovered, it was deep.
The clothes in the den are evidence the ravine 4 knew of it. They would likely only leave it for firewood, toilet activities or to help one of their own in distress. " Where we go one, we go all" might explain why none were found in the den.
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From my vague memory Glennm , it has/was suggested that this was a known Mansi campsite..although there is no proof . What is reported, I think in April/ may when the thaw comes , the hired Mansi noticed the cut stumps, clothing etc which lead the tsearchers to concentrate on that part of the ravine. That's my interpretation at least.
It is a question of the den flooring being pre incident or post incident I guess.
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It's hard to figure out all these ideas about the flooring, hunters and why they should be there.
When I started studying this topic, fortunately, one of the first videos I received was video from the Doropey team about the overhanging snow.
The most I had heard before was the yeti and UFO.
Only later did I begin to learn other crazy ideas. For example, about a pyramid of 9 people who fell and the top one damaged their skulls, also about a tent moved from the flooring to the mountain.
If my head had been damaged by them from the very beginning, I don't know what would have happened to me.
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I have been trying to refute the Bardin-Shuleshko version for three years now and I can't do it. All other versions are easy to refute.
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I have been trying to refute the Bardin-Shuleshko version for three years now and I can't do it. All other versions are easy to refute.
Thank you , I'm not sure if I'm familiar with what Bardin-Shuleshko version is , I can't get a link when searching the name. Do you have a link?.
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I have been trying to refute the Bardin-Shuleshko version for three years now and I can't do it. All other versions are easy to refute.
Thank you , I'm not sure if I'm familiar with what Bardin-Shuleshko version is , I can't get a link when searching the name. Do you have a link?.
Have you never read the criminal case of the Dyatlov group?
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If you mean the criminal files, then yes or most of what I can find. I have a slight problem with remembering names as they are not my first language but that is my fault.
A couple of links don't seem to exist anymore but I assume you refer to a hurricane?
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The full criminal case is on the website
https://dyatlovpass.com/case-files
https://dyatlovpass.com/case-files-volume-2
Before putting forward any theory, I strongly recommend that you familiarize yourself with the case
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Report of Bardin & Shuleshko is presented here - CASE FILES :: CPSU SPECIAL REPORST
https://dyatlovpass.com/special-reports
In is not translated to Englsih yet (exosts only in Russian scans and photos).
Partially it is presented here
https://dyatlovpass.com/case-files-32-35
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Report of Bardin & Shuleshko is presented here - CASE FILES :: CPSU SPECIAL REPORST
https://dyatlovpass.com/special-reports
In is not translated to Englsih yet (exosts only in Russian scans and photos).
Partially it is presented here
https://dyatlovpass.com/case-files-32-35
Thank you axelrod for being helpful.
I have looked at it before but it's the other translation on the links it's why I ask about what they are actually saying.
As far as I'm aware they speculation it was a hurricane. From translating the Documents ( I'm sure there's inaccuracy) I see 3 new comments that I haven't seen before. One is the report of two sets off footprints , one with 3 people and one with 6 people , the paths of the group did not cross and the group of three foot prints was about 10 meters away from the group of six foot prints,.
Also that YURI DOROSHENKO was found on a branch that was broken in several places from a fall.
Also that some of the footprints that were opposite to the raised ones had broken through a lair of ice and the snow was soft below.
The translation could be wrong but these are new small details .
I also hadn't seen the quite rigorous reprimanding to all those involved in sports and the accusations of the many failures and lazy response . There is anger in the report.
I also didn't read anywhere before about the 11 criminals that were hunted down with 9 weapons that had robbed a warehouse. 3 pistols I think at least .
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The full criminal case is on the website
https://dyatlovpass.com/case-files
https://dyatlovpass.com/case-files-volume-2
Before putting forward any theory, I strongly recommend that you familiarize yourself with the case
I've read them all but don't claim to remember all that's said. I can't see anything that Bardin & Shuleshko said that explains the injuries.
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Raised footprints; It provides solid evidence to predict weather conditions when the tent is abandoned. There was a snowstorm when the tent was abandoned. Assuming that there is no snowfall or storm that night and the following days; We should have seen the tracks on the hardened snow as collapsed pits.
They probably didn't want to go any further as the storm was about to start and thought they could make it through the night under the current conditions. Once the tent was set up, conditions became twice as severe. Snow was piling up in the tent and it was collapsing. They fixed it with poles, but it was collapsing again. One pole even broke. Immediately go down to the forest, light a fire and wait for the storm to pass. In fact, I think they are all on equal terms when it comes to clothing. Buying or losing clothes is a situation that we encounter in the following pages. This explains the journey into the forest to some extent, but when it comes to the reason for leaving the tent without shoes, I hesitate. The small layer of snow that formed while setting up the tent probably caused the young people to panic.
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Raised footprints; It provides solid evidence to predict weather conditions when the tent is abandoned. There was a snowstorm when the tent was abandoned. Assuming that there is no snowfall or storm that night and the following days; We should have seen the tracks on the hardened snow as collapsed pits.
They probably didn't want to go any further as the storm was about to start and thought they could make it through the night under the current conditions. Once the tent was set up, conditions became twice as severe. Snow was piling up in the tent and it was collapsing. They fixed it with poles, but it was collapsing again. One pole even broke. Immediately go down to the forest, light a fire and wait for the storm to pass. In fact, I think they are all on equal terms when it comes to clothing. Buying or losing clothes is a situation that we encounter in the following pages. This explains the journey into the forest to some extent, but when it comes to the reason for leaving the tent without shoes, I hesitate. The small layer of snow that formed while setting up the tent probably caused the young people to panic.
And I think that Dyatlov's group lowered the tent itself to the ground to reduce the windage in a strong wind. We did it on hikes. Mountaineers do it sometimes. And that's why it was quickly covered with snow and there was nothing to breathe. We had to cut it from the inside. That's how it used to be with us on Elbrus. And that's exactly how a group of Kazakh climbers, suffocating, cut their tent, who died under Pobeda Peak in 1954. This assumption is based on cases and tragedies that once happened.
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I thought it would make make sense to shelter at boot rock instead of the forest. There would be no fire, of course, but they could regain the tent sooner. Do you think they chose not to do so because they did not know how long the poor conditions would last?
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There are facts of snow caves collapsing on people. People did not break their ribs during these collapses. Not in a single case. Such facts are on the Internet. They are not difficult to find and I looked for them and carefully studied them. Everything is logical there. If the snow is soft and can be dug, then it is safe for the ribs. This is not concrete. This is snow. This snow was dug. It was dug very recently!!!
There is not a single fact that a person's ribs were broken during the collapse of a dug snow cave. Since there are no such cases, it is impossible.
If anyone wants to fantasize, please do so. It is your right.
Dorogaja Олег Таймень - Dear Oleg Tajmen:
You are so right.
I am a student of history.
I am also pretty knowledgeable in martial arts and close combat techniques.
I know a lot about what highly educated, highly skilled police forces do when they want to take the lives of people.
In my view, there is not a shade of doubt that the nine students were killed by special forces, most likely the KGB special forces. In all probability, they were killed because they had witnessed something in the Urals which they were not supposed to know about. The order to kill them would have been issued from the Government itself. During the Cold War, the Russian government could not afford the risk that one of these nine told a colleague, friend, spouse or child what they had witnessed.
The nine were however loyal Soviet citizens. Still, the Government decided that they had to be preventively killed.
The Government knew that if the nine students just disappeared, or were brought home in closed coffins, everybody would understand what had happened.
Therefore, the nine potential risks had to be eliminated in such a way as to make it look like an accidents.
"Accidents" are, like "suicides" and "heart attacks," a method used by highly skilled special forces when they want to kill without making it obvious.
This is, more than likely, what happened in this case.
I am both frightened, angered and awestruck by the merciless skill and intelligence the Russian special forces showed when they eliminated the nine students 65 years ago. To force them out from their tent at gunpoint, and let the cold do its job, is a very intelligent way to cover up the murder of the nine.
I am positive that every single victim shows injuries consistent with human attack with lethal intent. Moreover, the injuries can only be explained by human attack.
What I cannot understand, is why some people devote their energy to the denial of what caused the death of the Dyatlov group.
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Now I ask for your proof that ribs break when caves collapse.
Dear Oleg:
Why do some people deny the obvious? The Dyatlov Pass tragedy was a cold-blooded, intelligently planned murder.
Corpses do not lie, and the corpses tell their tale.
It is time to realize what happened.
The Dyatlov Pass tragedy was no accident.
It was murder. I have elaborated on this elsewhere on this forum.
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I think boot rock would have been just as exposed from strong winds. If it had been snow build up that ended up with the tent collapsing perhaps simulating an avalanche in the hikers minds, then down the slope into the gully and treeline for shelter makes sense.
It's within the decision of not taking extra equipment from the tent that suggests it was an immediate evacuation although the entrance remained upright .
If they pitched the tent and the wind was starting to blow , it may be another reason not to install the stove , that would just add weight to the tent ridge and danger to those inside.
Not to be able to reach in and grab a saw , jacket , blanket or footwear is my biggest problem . Perhaps the hikers were already wearing less than what they were found in and they grabbed what they could at that point .
Although there's arguments about much of this , the narrative coincides with what was found even through a poor investigation . At the time of recording the documents , within a space of a day , there was no evidence to suggest a crime. They had a flattened tent, 9 pairs of footprints ( difficult to stage this) going down the slope and 4 bodies along this line . Two of these hikers were next to a fire. There is nothing to suggest anything less than the hikers had to leave that slope , quickly.
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Now I ask for your proof that ribs break when caves collapse.
Dear Oleg:
Why do some people deny the obvious? The Dyatlov Pass tragedy was a cold-blooded, intelligently planned murder.
Corpses do not lie, and the corpses tell their tale.
It is time to realize what happened.
The Dyatlov Pass tragedy was no accident.
It was murder. I have elaborated on this elsewhere on this forum.
Уважаемый, не нужно именно ко мне обращаться с вашими фантазиями.
Translates to: Dear, you don't need to turn to me with your fantasies.
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The Dyatlov Pass tragedy was no accident.
It was murder. I have elaborated on this elsewhere on this forum.
Уважаемый, не нужно именно ко мне обращаться с вашими фантазиями.
[/quote]
I understand Russian, by the way.
The fact that it was murder, was indirectly stated in various ways.
Most importantly, the investigators were called to Moscow and instructed to say that it was an accident. Later, when the investigation was re-opened, it was declared beforehand that conclusion must be that the tragedy could only have been caused by an avalanche, a slab avalanche or a hurricane. That was a clear admission, albeit an indirect one, that the force that killed the nine unfortunates was something very different.
Also, Vozrozhdenny claimed that the lethal damage to the bodies of the most injured ones could not have been caused by other humans. He justified that position by saying that no soft tissue had been damaged, and therefore the crushed bone could not have been the result of blows from an attack. That is an indirect confession: When the head is protected by any kind of headgear, the force of the blow does not damage the soft tissues but the bone is still taking the impact.
Yes, it was murder.
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Four were freezing, so they hurriedly dug (using only their hands) a trench. They piled the snow that they removed on the surface above to help block the wind. From what I've read, there was no roof or walls of snow. It was part of the trench itself that broke away, which caused the four to fall into the ravine below.
In the video I provided in this topic (part 9), Oleg Taimen's wife records Oleg making a snow cave.
Oleg Taimen does not do the things described here. Oleg does not take snow with his bare hands and does not make bastions out of snow cubes. Why should Dyatlov do this? I do not understand.
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Hello world! New here but have been following this off and on for about 3 years. Recently here in America there was an exploration documentary on TV that was done in 2019 retracing the tracks and going to Dyatlov pass. It re-ignited the curiosity in me to look deeper into this as I have a lot of free time on my hands now. As a little background, I have done a lot of digital forensic work on retrieving data and building a timeline of deceased individuals in cases of suicide vs murder here in the states and have a pretty good track record.
Here is my theory with the data I have observed so far. It is subject to change based on conversation and other pieces of data that might disconnect my theory from the truth that I have not read.
I think we can all agree the tent is the epic center of whatever triggered the events that followed. If we look at the last photos taken of them preparing a place to pitch the tent, we can see that the weather conditions have deteriorated even more than in the previous pictures taken in the morning. What else does the picture tell us?
https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Unknown-origin-Dyatlov-photos-11.jpg
There are only 4 people, which includes the person taking the picture working on the site. Where are the other 5 people? I think they were down in the ravine, making their snow cave as a backup plan if anything went wrong with their cold camp and if they were preparing a backup plan a fire would be part of it. I believe the wood that was sawed off the tree was in fact done so but not in the middle of the night during a snow and violent windstorm but earlier in the afternoon. That is why there are no saws found there. They took them back to the camp after they completed their task. Note also that the ravine is near a precious resource. Water. The tree line near the cache site they made does not appear to have water and appears to be harder trek than where they went into the ravine / tree line. It is also closer to the planned route as well.
I think we are concentrating too much on the fact that “someone” cut the tent. I know what the forensics say in 1959 but there are no artifacts to support this conclusion I have found. From the data I read that the tent was two tents stitched together. The tent was in disrepair, and they even wrote about having to keep it patched up. I believe a very powerful katabatic windstorm (60-80MPH winds or more) came up on them evening, middle of the night, who knows but at some point, hurricane windstorm tore their dilapidated tent to the point they had to exit. They had their backup plan, but they didn’t expect the storm and conditions they currently found themselves in. It was far worse than they could imagine.
The hikers march single file down the tree line to fall back on their backup plan. They walked like they knew where they were going in my opinion. They get to the tree line and build a fire, and they go through the wood they had gathered rather quickly but it is simply not enough heat because of the extreme cold and wind. I believe the rest of the group retreated to the snow cave and came out to check on their friends Doroshenko and Krivonischenko who were trying to keep the fire going and found them dead as they had been exposed to the elements more than the rest of the group. They took their clothes. These were the first people to die, I think.
While getting back into the snow cave it collapses, trapping 4 of the remaining 7 hikers. Dyatlov, Komogorova and slobin witness this. The campfire is a failure, the snow cave is a failure, and the only thing left to do is go back to the tent, get a shovel and possibly save their friends. It would be the only reason in my opinion to return to the tent and not stay in the safety of the forest. Hypothermia starts to sit in, and they don’t really realize how bad off they really are.
I think Slobodin skull fracture is the result of freezing out in the open with his neck possibly exposed. He could also have fallen while walking back up to the tent from the ravine. It is the only piece that looks like it could spin another theory, but I think those two scenarios are the cause for his injury.
It might just be that simple.
The other theories that have been mentioned I do not see the data to bring myself to those conclusions. I do not see the data that supports.
1- A missile test or some kind of radiation experiment. - The whole place and everyone would send a Geiger counter off the charts. The reason why radiation showed up on clothing and the explanation why the small reading is present makes perfect sense. No craters or data showing anything explosive
2- Humans forced them out of the tent. - There is simply no evidence of any of this. With the current weather conditions that we know to have existed, no other humans were standing out in the middle of nowhere as they would be subject to freeze to death as well.
3- Animals. – Again, there is no evidence to support this. In the current weather conditions of the camp the animals were down in the forest. The same place where the hikers were headed for the same reason. Cover.
4- Yeti, UFO, Ball lighting, Time Portal, poisonous gases. – The data just is not there to support any of these things no matter how outside of the box thinking is applied. The data is simply just not there to make those conclusions.
5- A fight or disagreement among the group. – I do not see the data to make that conclusion. Fighting people don’t all walk down the mountain together and there would be physical evidence of clothes, being ripped or blood stained.
J Proxy
Peace on earth, goodwill towards men.
Interesting theory, I especially liked the idea of them marching off in a line to a predetermined destination, with a sense of purpose, and this would strengthen the contention they left without survival aids because they had an alternative site of heat and shelter waiting.
However, some of the details you have built your theory on are shaky...
There were no shovels on the hike, they used skis, poles and presumably gloved hands for any snowy excavations.
A snow den for 9 people would be a considerable task, and much more prone to collapse. Perhaps they made more than one, and during the search two large excavations appear to have been made, but only one 'den' is photographed, with clothing scraps and branches to line seats for 4 people.
The wood didn't appear to have been sawed off the (cedar) tree, but snapped.
Katabatic wind theory suggests winds crest a mountain ridge and blow downhill, so the uphill side of the tent, which was side-on to the crest, should have been more damaged than the downhill side. There was very little uphill tent damage.
Microscopic analysis revealed the tent had been cut in at least 3 places from the inside. The samples may have been lost but the photographs exist in the case files:
https://dyatlovpass.com/case-files-303-304?rbid=17743
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With the tent so nadly damaged, it would be of little use protecting the tourists. The logical choice is to leave and seek shelter and warmth. Boot rock could provide shelter, but no warmth. The forest is a better choice. I can only surmise that the conditions they experienced included darkness, wind driven snow, fog, and biting cold They underestimated their distance to the treeline. Once there, an emergency fire was lit and the effects of hypothermia started to impair judgements. As things got more urgent, more drastic behavior followed resulting in the two Yuri's accidental deaths and the separation of the party into two teams, one to regain the tent, the other to shelter in place. It was too little, too late. Nature is indifferent.
If anyone seeks factual truth, it is in mathematics. If you want scientific analysis, you are dealing with greater or lesser probabilities. Based on the historical records, there is a greater probability the DPI demise as being precipitated by natural causes. Since science deals with probabilities, there is ample room for conspiracies and alternate explanations which are possibilities and probable or improbable according to your evidence. Gamblers like to beat the odds, but the house nearly always wins. Nature holds all the cards here.
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Per Inge Oestmoen, Intervention by the KGB does answer the key questions.
Why did the hikers exit the tent so hurriedly and so under clothed? They were forced out at gunpoint.
How did the severe injuries to several hikers occur? They were beaten by rifle stocks. Interestingly, those beaten were Zolotaryov, WWII veteran and probably the one most knowledgeable about hand-to-hand combat; Zolotaryov's friend, Thibeaux-Brignolle; and Dubinina, who, upon reading the various diaries, seems to have a formidable temper.
Was there a cover-up during the investigation? If the KGB was involved, there certainly would be a cover-up.
Why has no substantial evidence ever come to light since? In 1959, the new head of the Communist Party, Khrushchev, could not in any way be implicated in the incident. In 2024, the Russian government, would not want such an embarrassment on its hands.
Of course, intervention by the KGB raises countless questions, also. Then again, without indisputable evidence, every theory raises as many questions as it answers.
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"Of course, intervention by the KGB raises countless questions, also. Then again, without indisputable evidence, every theory raises as many questions as it answers."
My point exactly !
The KGB theory goes to the idea that absence of evidence does not mean evidence of absence. Yet, there is nothing definitive regarding the tent or personal injuries inflicted by the KGB that can not be explained naturally.. It all reduces to probability. For me, all the damage and fatalities have a greater probability from natural causation as opposed to physical assault for an unspecified reason by assault forces who had no route map to begin with.
It is axiomatic in criminal forensics that a criminal will bring something to a crime scene and leave with something from the crime scene. Nature does not have the same requirement. To the best of my understanding, the assault force left no prints nor physical debris. Did they take anything as a souvenir, like the Flemish knife? After 60 years, someone would claim to have it for a collectors item if nothing else.
We have no mathematical certainty in this mystery, only degrees of probability and Occam's razor. Sometimes, I think the Voynich ,manuscript will be decoded before this mystery gets solved.
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Regardless of the outside temperature, a maximum of 3-5 degrees warmer area can be obtained inside the tent, while in the snow cave, the average temperature values are around 0-1 degrees regardless of the outside air temperature. (DP members are of course aware of this ancient information) For this reason, it is possible to come across water sources flowing under the snow even in extreme cold. It was not possible to light a hot fire with wet branches in the snowstorm that night. However, 2 Yuris tried this but could not warm up. Because the person who was most interested in stove and fire construction was Y. Kryveshenko.
4 people were found in the snow cave at once. They did not need to dig the entire valley. Because signs such as drifting branches and fallen leaves indicating the snow cave made it easier to find the location of the cave correctly. This shows that there has been cave construction activity recently and that it was covered with 10-20 cm of snow in the past days. Saving time by hiding the murdered individuals under 4 meters of snow and thinking that the evidence of the murder will disappear in this way can only be the behavior of individuals far from civilized society and isolated from science. The KGB or the army knows that by hiding the bodies under the snow, the evidence will not be lost.
To summarize; Although it is a mystery why they came out of the tent (maybe it was the growl of a bear, the howl of a wolf pack, the shifting snow cover or the crushing wind), I believe that all the activities that took place in the forest had a purpose. They were carried out by DP members.
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The absence of strangers at the scene of the tragedy has been proven by me long ago in this video. Therefore, there can be no talk of any murder by people. Turn on the auto-translator in the video settings and watch, read
https://youtu.be/gNliJeFE4iY (https://youtu.be/gNliJeFE4iY)
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I think a number of forum members and you tubers have argued that there is no signs of outsiders/strangers anywhere for a long time. There were some Mansi trails discovered in a different direction .
It is only those that believe the injuries were the result of outsiders that argue that they were there .
It has always been one of the biggest arguments against any strangers in the area as they couldn't have been able to stage the scene because of the snow conditions. Every step taken would leave a trace , every branch broken or tree cut would leave evidence.
There are the 9 sets of footprints going down the slope. It could never be staged , no stager would know the end result of those foot prints on discovery by the searchers and I think this is a key point .... Stagers / KGB would have made the hiker's walk in single file down the slope . Why , to save work and time and cover their tracks , a single file trail would be the easiest but yet we have them walking side by side, the exact number of hikers , no extra footprints. It was only the hikers there until the searchers arrived.
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Dear Oleg!
I dont' believe in route from Otorten in South direction
(https://i.ibb.co/bPsM1cY/blue-route.jpg) (https://ibb.co/g3SLykQ)
As I suppose - Slobtsov & Sharavin were landed between 1079 and Northern-2 (Severny-2)
Maybe it was Mountain Hoy-Equa, not an Otorten.
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Dear Oleg!
I dont' believe in route from Otorten in South direction
(https://i.ibb.co/bPsM1cY/blue-route.jpg) (https://ibb.co/g3SLykQ)
As I suppose - Slobtsov & Sharavin were landed between 1079 and Northern-2 (Severny-2)
Maybe it was Mountain Hoy-Equa, not an Otorten.
I already wrote above that I do not participate in discussions of fantasies. Please do not contact me with this.
Я уже чуть выше писал, что в обсуждениях фантазий не участвую. Ко мне с этим прошу не обращаться.