Dyatlov Pass Forum
Theories Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: OLD JEDI 72 on April 22, 2025, 05:15:42 PM
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Summary
Pathologist Eduard Tumanov examined the autopsy reports and concluded that several hikers bore injuries indicative of a physical confrontation, suggesting a fight either among the group or with outsiders
Contemporary commentary highlights defensive wounds and cuts consistent with hand-to-hand combat, while the tent was found ripped open from the inside, reinforcing the notion of an internal altercation
Four bodies recovered from the stream exhibited severe internal trauma—major skull fractures and chest crush injuries—with minimal external wounds, a pattern characteristic of blast or shockwave exposure rather than post-mortem scavenging
Historical records document military explosive tests in the vicinity, including parachute-deployed mines and antimagnetic anti-tank charges, which would produce concussive forces capable of both fracturing bone internally and inciting panic that could erupt into violence
Pro Theory Overview:
This theory posits that an unexpected explosive event—most plausibly dynamite or military-grade mines—triggered a panicked scramble from the tent, precipitating a violent altercation among the hikers that left some fatally injured and others succumbing to hypothermia.
Evidence of Internal Conflict
Autopsy-Based Analysis
Eduard Tumanov, a respected pathologist involved in the case review, noted that several victims had wounds consistent with a fight occurring up to two days before death, implying conscious, aggressive behavior rather than purely disoriented flight
Defensive Injuries
Observers have pointed to bruises, lacerations, and signs of a struggle—defensive wounds on arms and hands—indicating the hikers may have turned on one another in fear or confusion
Tent Ripped from Within
Investigators found the tent’s fabric forcibly torn inward, a detail more readily explained by a frenzied internal conflict than by natural forces such as wind or avalanche
Shockwave-Like Injuries and Dynamite Hypothesis
Internal Trauma Profile
Three of the four hikers in the stream exhibited massive skull and chest fractures with no corresponding external injuries—hallmarks of high-pressure shockwave impact rather than blunt force trauma from falling or animal activity
Parachute Mine Comparisons
Parachute-deployed Soviet mines, tested in the Ural region at the time, detonate mid-air and deliver concussive blasts that shatter bone internally while leaving skin largely intact—a precise match for the observed wounds
Antimagnetic Anti-Tank Mines
Local military exercises included the use of 5 kg antimagnetic mines, whose cannonade was heard as far as 10 km away; such blasts could easily produce the shockwave necessary to both injure the hikers and trigger panic
Eyewitness Reports of Orbs and Flashes
Survivors and locals described glowing orange orbs and flashes in the sky—consistent with parachute mine flares—supporting the scenario of unexpected explosions prompting a flight from the tent
Supporting Testimony and Historical Context
Camera Film Evidence
Amateur investigators have noted that the hikers’ own film reportedly captured luminous bursts and unexplained light phenomena, which align with explosions rather than meteorological events
Sole Footprints at Scene
Forensic accounts emphasize that only the hikers’ footprints surrounded the tent—no outsider tracks—suggesting that any violence must have been internal to the group rather than an assault by external parties
Absence of Avalanche Indicators
Extensive surveys of the pass have failed to uncover signs of a full-scale avalanche, weakening natural-force hypotheses and increasing the plausibility of a sudden explosive trigger
Supporting Testimony and Historical Context
Camera Film Evidence
Amateur investigators have noted that the hikers’ own film reportedly captured luminous bursts and unexplained light phenomena, which align with explosions rather than meteorological events
Additional Group Dynamics and Internal Tensions
1. Dubinina’s “Black as Hell” Mood
Lyudmila Dubinina’s personal diary from January 1959 records that “the mood [of the group] sank… evil as hell,” suggesting a palpable, growing psychological strain as the expedition progressed
That same diary also notes complaints about tent ventilation—open windows letting in icy drafts—and unease about sleeping too close to the stove, reflecting mounting discomfort in their shelter
2. Access to Dynamite via Geology Sampling
Several members carried geology field kits, and in Soviet geological practice of the 1950s such kits often included small dynamite charges to fracture hard rock for sampling
If misused—or if a charge detonated accidentally—it could account for the concussive, shockwave-like injuries observed on the ravine-found bodies.
3. Dyatlov’s Authoritarian Leadership
Firsthand accounts describe Igor Dyatlov’s leadership style as “very tough authoritarian,” with a strict insistence that no member question his decisions
Dyatlov Pass
Under extreme stress, such rigidity can exacerbate tensions and suppress healthy dissent, potentially leading to rash collective actions.
4. Tension with Veteran Hiker Zolotaryov
Thirty-seven-year-old Semyon Zolotaryov, a World War II veteran and seasoned outdoorsman, joined the group as a late addition and commanded significant respect for his pragmatism and field experience
Dyatlov Pass
His presence and reputation may have threatened Dyatlov’s authority, sowing seeds of rivalry or insecurity.
5. Geopolitical Pressure and Ambition
Dyatlov had previously led a demanding traverse of the Caucasus Mountains, demonstrating his passion for bold, high-altitude ski expeditions
Dyatlov Pass
His drive to “exemplify the boldness and vigor of a new Soviet generation” likely fueled a no-compromise approach, where any hesitation was seen as a failure of resolve.
6. Romantic and Sexual Frictions
Within the group, Yuri Doroshenko had a history with Zina Kolmogorova, having dated her before the expedition
Dyatlov Pass
Although no explicit evidence confirms a love affair between Dyatlov and Zina, speculation persists that Dyatlov may have harbored feelings for her, creating a tense love-triangle dynamic with Doroshenko
7. Signs of Internal Conflict
Post-mortem accounts note that all hikers exhibited defensive or otherwise inconsistent injuries, “consistent with fighting with other humans,” pointing to the possibility of a group altercation before the exodus from the tent
8. Reopened Investigations and Ruled-Out Conspiracies
Modern prosecution reviews have definitively ruled out any governmental or military conspiracy behind the hikers’ deaths, underscoring that the source of trauma was likely internal to the group rather than external military activity
These added considerations—ranging from Dubinina’s bleak diary entries and geological-sampling dynamite, to Dyatlov’s uncompromising leadership, veteran rivalry, and subtle romantic tensions—contribute to a cohesive “Pro” argument that an internal breakdown and subsequent hypothermic flight, exacerbated by shockwave-style injuries (potentially from dynamite), best explain the tragic outcome at Dyatlov Pass.
Conclusion
The convergence of defensive wounds, tent damage from within, internal blast-style injuries, and documented military explosive activity offers a coherent explanation: a dynamite-like concussive event spurred panic, igniting a frenzied fight that left some hikers injured by shockwave forces and others to die of hypothermia in the ensuing chaos. This theory reconciles the peculiar autopsy findings and contextual military history, making it a compelling account of the Dyatlov Pass tragedy.
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I wrote this using AI, however, I programmed it with my arguments as if it were a high school debate, and I was taking the "Pro" stance. You will occasionally see an out-of-place term like "Dyatlov Pass" at the end of a sentence.. This was because when the AI wrote my argument, it provided sources. The Sources were unclickable hyperlinks, and I didn't delete all of them. The "Dyatlov Pass" is a direct reference to this site! So all of my evidence is here. And thank you for that. If requested, I can provide an unadulterated draft with dead links intact.
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I think you woul need to cite the evidence of the claims. Input of data needs to be 100% correct..or admit that it's opinions and not facts.
From a brief reading it would seem much of the claims are post case files and other speculation. ?
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Does anyone think a bomb blast on 1079 would be seen and heard in the vicinity of Vizhay? I believe those people would see a glow in the distance and a rumble. Nobody claims the saw or heard any such thing in the reports. Yes, I do know that undetonated atomic bombs were accidentally dropped during the cold war. The possibility that bombs were dropped by accident is not an impossibility, but an improbability since physical evidence was not found on the countryside.
The injuries to the ravine 4 have been compared to blast injuries, but a crush can happen more than one way, it could be a cave in, a slip-fall from a height, a tree fall etc.
Signs of altercation does not exclude injuring oneself to keep awake, nor does it exclude trip-fall injuries. Perhaps high words were exchanges and it came to blows over a decision to abort the hike. It does not explain why the tent was abandoned.
I support the weather driven slab slide theory. Since snow drifts and melts. So too does the evidence. Then again, did any rescuer claim the tent and area were affected by a snow slide? No.
I will be steamed if a bot figures this out first.
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Does anyone think a bomb blast on 1079 would be seen and heard in the vicinity of Vizhay? I believe those people would see a glow in the distance and a rumble. Nobody claims the saw or heard any such thing in the reports. Yes, I do know that undetonated atomic bombs were accidentally dropped during the cold war. The possibility that bombs were dropped by accident is not an impossibility, but an improbability since physical evidence was not found on the countryside.
The injuries to the ravine 4 have been compared to blast injuries, but a crush can happen more than one way, it could be a cave in, a slip-fall from a height, a tree fall etc.
Signs of altercation does not exclude injuring oneself to keep awake, nor does it exclude trip-fall injuries. Perhaps high words were exchanges and it came to blows over a decision to abort the hike. It does not explain why the tent was abandoned.
I support the weather driven slab slide theory. Since snow drifts and melts. So too does the evidence. Then again, did any rescuer claim the tent and area were affected by a snow slide? No.
I will be steamed if a bot figures this out first.
I don't think there's any indication of a bomb blast , neither do.i think there's signs of an internal fight nor outsiders. All the injuries big and small seem to be a consequence of leaving the tent and then survival.. with repeated evidence given by. Post Dyatlov groups in winter , snowy mountains, it seems to be repeatedly ignored.
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I think you woul need to cite the evidence of the claims. Input of data needs to be 100% correct..or admit that it's opinions and not facts.
From a brief reading it would seem much of the claims are post case files and other speculation. ?
I'm working on it, apparently I have to do stuff like:
Why the `` placeholders aren’t true hyperlinks
The `` tags you see in our conversation are internal reference markers that tell ChatGPT which source it cited; they’re not real URLs or standard Markdown links, so if you copy and paste them into another editor (GitHub, WordPress, etc.), they’ll appear as plain text and won’t be clickable.
How to turn them into clickable links
Locate the actual URL for each citation.
In the ChatGPT “Web” tool output, each reference ID (e.g. turn0search5) corresponds to a specific web page.
Click to “Open” that reference in the tool’s logs, then copy the URL from your browser’s address bar.
Choose a Markdown link style.
Inline:
md
Copy code
Evidence shows defensive wounds on the hikers [1](https://example.com/defensive-wounds-study).
Reference-style:
md
Copy code
Evidence shows defensive wounds on the hikers [1].
…
[1]: https://example.com/defensive-wounds-study "Defensive Wounds Study"
Autolink (shows the URL as link text):
md
Copy code
<https://example.com/defensive-wounds-study>
``` :contentReference[oaicite:0]{index=0}
Replace each placeholder.
Find `` in your draft.
Swap it out for your chosen Markdown link snippet, using the actual URL you retrieved.
Verify in your target platform.
Paste your updated Markdown into the editor where you’ll repost.
Preview or publish to confirm the links are live and clickable.
Quick reference for Markdown links
Inline links: [Link text](URL)
Reference links: Define [Label]: URL at the bottom, then use [Link text][Label] in the body
Autolinks: Surround a raw URL with < and > to make it clickable without custom link text
Medium
By extracting each real URL from the ChatGPT tool outputs and re-embedding them in one of these Markdown formats, you’ll ensure your citations remain fully functional when you repost.
Sources
Try and take my word for it for now, and don't throw the baby out with the bathwater? I'm learning.
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Does anyone think a bomb blast on 1079 would be seen and heard in the vicinity of Vizhay? I believe those people would see a glow in the distance and a rumble. Nobody claims the saw or heard any such thing in the reports. Yes, I do know that undetonated atomic bombs were accidentally dropped during the cold war. The possibility that bombs were dropped by accident is not an impossibility, but an improbability since physical evidence was not found on the countryside.
The injuries to the ravine 4 have been compared to blast injuries, but a crush can happen more than one way, it could be a cave in, a slip-fall from a height, a tree fall etc.
Signs of altercation does not exclude injuring oneself to keep awake, nor does it exclude trip-fall injuries. Perhaps high words were exchanges and it came to blows over a decision to abort the hike. It does not explain why the tent was abandoned.
I support the weather driven slab slide theory. Since snow drifts and melts. So too does the evidence. Then again, did any rescuer claim the tent and area were affected by a snow slide? No.
I will be steamed if a bot figures this out first.
I'm not a bot but I program Terminators. thumb1
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As I said, Glenn. I programmed the AI to present a "Pro" case arguing for a fight in the tent on a High School Debate Club level and programmed my points in. It fact-checked me, I saw all of the pages flashing up. If you reread it, there is never any overstatement of anything other than a reference to the tent and an open window which were two different issues, conflated. Rather than offer opinions, why not refute something you don't approve of?
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I think you woul need to cite the evidence of the claims. Input of data needs to be 100% correct..or admit that it's opinions and not facts.
From a brief reading it would seem much of the claims are post case files and other speculation. ?
Ask and you shall receive. An index haha.
## Source Index
Below is a comprehensive index of all source material cited in our Dyatlov Pass debate. Each entry includes the reference ID, title/author, a brief description, and a clickable URL.
| Ref ID | Title / Author | Description | URL |
|-----------------|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| **turn0search1** | *Dyatlov Pass incident* (Wikipedia) | Overview of the 1959 Ural Mountains tragedy, group composition, timeline, and official case summary. citeturn0search1 | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyatlov_Pass_incident |
| **turn0search2** | “The radioactive trace on the Dyatlov Pass – two conflicting opinions” (DyatlovPass.com) | Discussion of elevated radiation readings on hikers’ clothing and implications for external forces. citeturn0search2 | https://dyatlovpass.com/radioctive-trace |
| **turn0search3** | “Lyudmila Dubinina’s premonition of her tragic death” (Forum.DyatlovPass.com) | Excerpts from Dubinina’s diary, noting mood swings and the phrase “evil as hell.” citeturn0search3 | https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=433.0 |
| **turn0search4** | “Semyon Zolotaryov – Dyatlov Pass” (DyatlovPass.com) | Biographical details on veteran hiker Zolotaryov, his experience, and role in the group. citeturn0search4 | https://dyatlovpass.com/semyon-zolotaryov |
| **turn0search5** | “Yuri Doroshenko – Dyatlov Pass” (DyatlovPass.com) | Profile of Doroshenko, including past relationship with Zina Kolmogorova and group dynamics. citeturn0search5 | https://dyatlovpass.com/yuri-doroshenko |
| **turn0search8** | “Unravelling the mystery of the Dyatlov Pass” (The Boar) | Analysis of skull/chest fractures inconsistent with avalanches and slope-angle data. citeturn0search8 | https://theboar.org/2021/02/unravelling-the-mystery-of-the-dyatlov-pass/ |
| **turn0search9** | *9 Russian Adventurers…A New Theory* (Wired) | Presentation of slab-avalanche and alternative theories, including military tests. citeturn0search9 | https://www.wired.com/story/dyatlov-pass-incident-slab-avalanche/ |
| **turn0search11** | “Has an Old Soviet Mystery at Last Been Solved?” (The New Yorker) | Recap of 2019 reinvestigation, slab-avalanche hypothesis, and ongoing skepticism. citeturn0search11 | https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2021/05/17/has-an-old-soviet-mystery-at-last-been-solved |
| **turn0search12** | *Death* (DyatlovPass.com) | Details on the recovery dates and autopsy of the four hikers found in the ravine. citeturn0search12 | https://dyatlovpass.com/death |
| **turn0search13** | *The Dyatlov Pass Incident* (J.H. Moncrieff) | Case study highlighting the “disturbing injuries” on ravine bodies and external trauma patterns. citeturn0search13 | https://www.jhmoncrieff.com/d-is-for-the-dyatlov-pass-incident/ |
| **turn0search14** | “Dyatlov Pass Parachute Mine Theory” (Reddit r/AstonishingLegends) | Firsthand discussion of Soviet military parachute mine tests in the Urals circa 1959. citeturn0search14 | https://www.reddit.com/r/AstonishingLegends/comments/f3evg0/dyatlov_pass_parachute_mine_theory/ |
| **turn0search16** | “Could an Avalanche Have Killed the …” (History – HowStuffWorks) | Autopsy notes on chest and skull fractures, missing eyes and tongue, and psycho-emotional signs from recovered cameras. citeturn0search16 | https://history.howstuffworks.com/historical-events/dyatlov-pass.htm |
| **turn0search17** | “Follow-up expeditions reveal avalanches at Dyatlov Pass” (Nature Communications Earth & Environment) | 2021 modeling study validating slab-avalanche plausibility given slope characteristics. citeturn0search17 | https://www.nature.com/articles/s43247-022-00393-x |
| **turn0search20** | “Mystery at Dyatlov Pass” (Forbes) | Reports on Soviet parachute mine tests near the incident timeframe and region. citeturn0search20 | https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidbressan/2019/02/01/mystery-at-dyatlov-pass/ |
| **turn0search21** | *1079 – Dyatlov Pass* (DyatlovPass.com) | Documentation of use of 5 kg antimagnetic anti-tank mines for geological sampling in the Urals. citeturn0search21 | https://dyatlovpass.com/1079 |
Feel free to copy this table directly—each URL is fully clickable and linked to the original source.
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I think you woul need to cite the evidence of the claims. Input of data needs to be 100% correct..or admit that it's opinions and not facts.
From a brief reading it would seem much of the claims are post case files and other speculation. ?
Ask and you shall receive. An index haha.
## Source Index
Below is a comprehensive index of all source material cited in our Dyatlov Pass debate. Each entry includes the reference ID, title/author, a brief description, and a clickable URL.
| Ref ID | Title / Author | Description | URL |
|-----------------|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| **turn0search1** | *Dyatlov Pass incident* (Wikipedia) | Overview of the 1959 Ural Mountains tragedy, group composition, timeline, and official case summary. citeturn0search1 | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyatlov_Pass_incident |
| **turn0search2** | “The radioactive trace on the Dyatlov Pass – two conflicting opinions” (DyatlovPass.com) | Discussion of elevated radiation readings on hikers’ clothing and implications for external forces. citeturn0search2 | https://dyatlovpass.com/radioctive-trace |
| **turn0search3** | “Lyudmila Dubinina’s premonition of her tragic death” (Forum.DyatlovPass.com) | Excerpts from Dubinina’s diary, noting mood swings and the phrase “evil as hell.” citeturn0search3 | https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=433.0 |
| **turn0search4** | “Semyon Zolotaryov – Dyatlov Pass” (DyatlovPass.com) | Biographical details on veteran hiker Zolotaryov, his experience, and role in the group. citeturn0search4 | https://dyatlovpass.com/semyon-zolotaryov |
| **turn0search5** | “Yuri Doroshenko – Dyatlov Pass” (DyatlovPass.com) | Profile of Doroshenko, including past relationship with Zina Kolmogorova and group dynamics. citeturn0search5 | https://dyatlovpass.com/yuri-doroshenko |
| **turn0search8** | “Unravelling the mystery of the Dyatlov Pass” (The Boar) | Analysis of skull/chest fractures inconsistent with avalanches and slope-angle data. citeturn0search8 | https://theboar.org/2021/02/unravelling-the-mystery-of-the-dyatlov-pass/ |
| **turn0search9** | *9 Russian Adventurers…A New Theory* (Wired) | Presentation of slab-avalanche and alternative theories, including military tests. citeturn0search9 | https://www.wired.com/story/dyatlov-pass-incident-slab-avalanche/ |
| **turn0search11** | “Has an Old Soviet Mystery at Last Been Solved?” (The New Yorker) | Recap of 2019 reinvestigation, slab-avalanche hypothesis, and ongoing skepticism. citeturn0search11 | https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2021/05/17/has-an-old-soviet-mystery-at-last-been-solved |
| **turn0search12** | *Death* (DyatlovPass.com) | Details on the recovery dates and autopsy of the four hikers found in the ravine. citeturn0search12 | https://dyatlovpass.com/death |
| **turn0search13** | *The Dyatlov Pass Incident* (J.H. Moncrieff) | Case study highlighting the “disturbing injuries” on ravine bodies and external trauma patterns. citeturn0search13 | https://www.jhmoncrieff.com/d-is-for-the-dyatlov-pass-incident/ |
| **turn0search14** | “Dyatlov Pass Parachute Mine Theory” (Reddit r/AstonishingLegends) | Firsthand discussion of Soviet military parachute mine tests in the Urals circa 1959. citeturn0search14 | https://www.reddit.com/r/AstonishingLegends/comments/f3evg0/dyatlov_pass_parachute_mine_theory/ |
| **turn0search16** | “Could an Avalanche Have Killed the …” (History – HowStuffWorks) | Autopsy notes on chest and skull fractures, missing eyes and tongue, and psycho-emotional signs from recovered cameras. citeturn0search16 | https://history.howstuffworks.com/historical-events/dyatlov-pass.htm |
| **turn0search17** | “Follow-up expeditions reveal avalanches at Dyatlov Pass” (Nature Communications Earth & Environment) | 2021 modeling study validating slab-avalanche plausibility given slope characteristics. citeturn0search17 | https://www.nature.com/articles/s43247-022-00393-x |
| **turn0search20** | “Mystery at Dyatlov Pass” (Forbes) | Reports on Soviet parachute mine tests near the incident timeframe and region. citeturn0search20 | https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidbressan/2019/02/01/mystery-at-dyatlov-pass/ |
| **turn0search21** | *1079 – Dyatlov Pass* (DyatlovPass.com) | Documentation of use of 5 kg antimagnetic anti-tank mines for geological sampling in the Urals. citeturn0search21 | https://dyatlovpass.com/1079 |
Feel free to copy this table directly—each URL is fully clickable and linked to the original source.
I think you need to relearn how to use your tool.....the case files are our only base , anything outside of that is inaccurate, including individual speculation. You have chosen specific information and not All information or speculation.
It would be a great task to put in everything,but you must do so if we want a better conclusion .
You talked about to many variables earlier but all must be accounted for if you are trying to use Ai , otherwise we would all get different results.
At the moment, for want of a better anology , you are asking us all to put in numbers into a calculator from our own number collection, hit the divide, multiplication and whatever else button and press equal ....
Nope , feck it ..... I tried ....you weren't wearing a Easter bunny outfit the other day by any chance, standing next to an orange coloured guy?
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Ever heard of an index? Been to a library? Dewey Decimal? I delivered an index with fully clickable links. Stop taking the piss.
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Primary and Archival Sources
Lyudmila Dubinina’s diary entries record her mood sinking “evil as hell” in late January 1959, hinting at psychological strain within the group
Dyatlov Pass Forum
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Dyatlov group roster and profiles list each hiker’s background, including Zina Kolmogorova, Lyudmila Dubinina, and their roles in the Ural Polytechnical Institute expedition
Dyatlov Pass
.
Recovery details (“Death” page) document the January–May 1959 discovery dates, clothing, and autopsy summaries for the four bodies found in the ravine .
Academic and Scholarly Analyses
Nature Communications study models slab-avalanche plausibility on the Dyatlov slope using 3D terrain scans and snowpack physics .
HowStuffWorks article examines autopsy notes describing internal chest and skull fractures inconsistent with blunt trauma or scavenging .
Wired’s “9 Russian Adventurers…A New Theory” compares avalanche, infrasound, and military-test hypotheses for the hikers’ injuries
Dyatlov Pass
.
The New Yorker feature reviews the 2019 reinvestigation, slab-avalanche findings, and remaining controversies
Wikipedia, la enciclopedia libre
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Popular Media and Online Analyses
Wikipedia: “Dyatlov Pass incident” provides a comprehensive timeline, group composition, and summary of investigative conclusions
Dyatlov Pass
.
The Boar: “Unravelling the mystery of the Dyatlov Pass” offers a humanities-oriented critique of slope-angle data and injury patterns
Dyatlov Pass
.
Forbes: “Mystery at Dyatlov Pass” reports on declassified Soviet parachute-mine tests in the Urals around 1959 .
J.H. Moncrieff’s case study highlights the “disturbing injuries” on the ravine bodies and questions natural-force explanations .
Reddit r/AstonishingLegends: Parachute Mine Theory compiles eyewitness accounts of orange orbs and possible explosive flares seen near the pass .
Biographical Profiles
Igor Alekseevich Dyatlov profile outlines his background as a radio-engineering student, expedition leader, and tent‐stove designer
Dyatlov Pass
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Semyon Zolotaryov profile details the WWII veteran’s late addition to the group and extensive field experience
Dyatlov Pass
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Yuri Doroshenko profile notes his radio‐engineering studies, impulsive personality, and prior relationship with Zina Kolmogorova
Dyatlov Pass
.
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Below is an index of the eight thematic additions, plus two related autopsy insights, each with its source and a clickable link:
| Item | Source / Citation | URL |
|---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| **1. Dubinina’s diary noting mood “evil as hell”** | Lyudmila Dubinina’s premonition of her tragic death (Forum.DyatlovPass.com) citeturn0search0 | https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=433.0 |
| **2. Geology sampling may include dynamite charges** | Drilling and blasting (Wikipedia) citeturn5search10 | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drilling_and_blasting |
| **3. Dyatlov’s authoritarian leadership style** | *Has an Old Soviet Mystery at Last Been Solved?* (The New Yorker) citeturn3search3 | https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2021/05/17/has-an-old-soviet-mystery-at-last-been-solved |
| **4. Veteran hiker Semyon Zolotaryov’s late addition and experience** | Dyatlov Pass incident (Wikipedia) citeturn1search1 | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyatlov_Pass_incident |
| **5. Dyatlov’s ambition to exemplify Soviet boldness in his planned route** | *Has an Old Soviet Mystery at Last Been Solved?* (The New Yorker) citeturn3search3 | https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2021/05/17/has-an-old-soviet-mystery-at-last-been-solved |
| **6. Romantic/frictional love triangle between Zina and Doroshenko** | Rashevskaya interview (DyatlovPass.com) citeturn6search0 | https://dyatlovpass.com/irina-rashevskaya-3 |
| **7. Defensive wounds consistent with human-on-human altercation** | r/Damnthatsinteresting – “All hikers were found with injuries, defensive and otherwise…” (Reddit) citeturn8search2 | https://www.reddit.com/r/Damnthatsinteresting/comments/1dsgera/the_dyatlov_pass_incident_nine_russian_hikers/ |
| **8. Shockwave-like internal trauma (skull/chest fractures without external wounds)** | Dyatlov Pass incident – Investigation section (Wikipedia) citeturn8search4 | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyatlov_Pass_incident |
| **9. Prosecution ruling out government/military conspiracy** | Prosecution agencies rule out authorities’ involvement (TASS) citeturn7search0 | http://tass.com/society/1043155 |
| **10. Autopsy records show injuries sustained 1–2 days before death** | “Altercation on the pass” (Forum.DyatlovPass.com) citeturn10search3 | https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=411.0%3Bwap2 |
Feel free to copy–paste this table into your repost—each URL will remain live and clickable.
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No matter the analytical method, the general process is essentially the same. First, address the evidence concerning before leaving the tent is gathered and massaged. Next, the evidence after leaving the tent is gathered and massaged. Then, by extrapolating the distillations forward and backward, the investigator makes a reasonable conclusion inductively or deductively as to what happened at the tent and why.
The trouble always comes in the form of discarding data that doesn't fit the model and placing weighted emphasis on that which does. This is the long standing conundrum. Another slippery slope is the attempt to divine their thinking.
The ONLY first hand information are the diaries, and they are insufficient. All else is second hand information.
I advocate for a slab slide compelling the hikers to evacuate the tent.
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Wouldn't it be interesting if it's a little bit of everything? A slab was released because of an explosion from either a parachute mine, anti tank mine, or dynamite. Then there's a meltdown on Igor because he insisted on camping in such a dumb place and the proverbial caca hits the fan.
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Ever heard of an index? Been to a library? Dewey Decimal? I delivered an index with fully clickable links. Stop taking the piss.
Ive never heard of a Dewey Decimal but have a rough idea of the concept of libraries.
The point I'm trying to get at , is if your using selected examples and quotes from injury caused by fist fighting and explosions, then that's the exact conclusion you will get from the AI.
Closed fists , damaged knuckles and body scratches , hemorrhages are all consistent with hypothermia cases . Add extreme cold conditions , climbing trees , breaking trees , starting fires , perhaps making or digging snow holes without protected hands in sub zero conditions then these injuries could have a number of causes. They were also chopping wood and making fires the days before and received small injuries at Nord 2.
I do not know how this AI thing works but it feels like it could be used to get any outcome desired .
Perhaps the AI could be used on the injuries alone from case studies of hypothermia. Then we could see if it would be impossible for the hikers to have all these body marks from anything in the local natural conditions they were subjected too?.
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Of course, it follows the users instructions. I asked it to compile me an argument for a fight amongst the hikers. I can also take the con approach or the wolverine theory for that matter. The instructions for making those hyperlinks active was way too tedious yesterday as I was a bit on the lash lol. I'll look back into it tomorrow but an index is just as good, just not as convenient. You should have seen it working, it tracked down every citation and source and I could see it flashing up. It's called ChatGPT and they have a free version, I'm using the $20 month plus plan which has access to advanced reasoning and 10 deep researchs a month. I can't wait to try that out! You can ask it to do pretty much everything. It made me a profile picture for this site that would fit without using an actual editor. Took 20 seconds lol
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Here's an argument for the wolverine theory in less than seven minutes, and at the end it makes a negative statement advocating for the snow slab or a fight lmao.
Introduction
A formal collegiate-style debate will examine whether the Dyatlov Pass hikers were driven from their tent by wildlife—specifically mustelids like wolverines or skunks, or large ungulates such as elk—rather than by more commonly proposed forces.
Affirmative Constructive (Pro–Animal Theory)
Opening Statement
The sudden, inexplicable flight of nine experienced hikers from the relative safety of their tent at night can be plausibly attributed to an acute animal‐induced panic. Defensive sprays from skunks, stealthy scent‐marking by wolverines, or a startling interaction with elk could each produce the sensory shock necessary to force rapid evacuation into subzero conditions—explaining the tent being cut from the inside and footprints in varied directions.
Citations: Skunks can spray sulfurous thiols up to 3 m with such potency they induce temporary blindness and severe irritation¹²; wolverines possess anal scent glands with complex volatiles comparable to skunk secretions³; elk roam the Urals’ forested zones and their shallow, two‐toed tracks have been noted near the campsite⁴⁵.
Argument 1: Skunk Spray as Trigger for Panic
Potent Chemical Defense. Striped skunks (Mephitis mephitis) eject a thiol‐rich spray detectable at 5.6 km and capable of causing eye irritation and temporary blindness¹.
Behavioral Response. Human encounters prompt immediate, panicked flight from enclosed spaces to avoid repeated sprays².
Tent Cut From Inside. Cutting the tent would be the quickest means of escape if spray infiltrated seams more rapidly than unzipping could permit.
Citations: Skunk spray is flammable, accurate, and can incapacitate vision¹; survivors of skunk encounters report disorientation that compels flight².
Argument 2: Wolverine Scent and Stealth Provocation
Anal Gland Secretion. Wolverines (Gulo gulo) have potent anal glands producing a pungent odor nicknamed “skunk bear,” chemically similar to other mustelids³.
Nocturnal Stealth. Their low, broad bodies and plantigrade posture allow them to climb over obstacles and investigate dens undetected³.
Persistent Odor. Unlike a single skunk spray, wolverine scent‐marks can linger, creating prolonged discomfort that would drive occupants outdoors.
Citations: Wolverines’ glandular secretions contain dozens of volatile compounds³; mustelid stealth behavior allows approach to human shelters without leaving conspicuous tracks³.
Argument 3: Elk Collision or Disturbance
Regional Presence. Elk (Alces alces) inhabit the Urals’ forested zones along with other large fauna⁴.
Tent Interaction. A curious or startled elk could brush or trip tent lines, tearing fabric and unbalancing occupants.
Footprint Evidence. Forum records document shallow, split–hoof prints interpreted as elk near the camp⁵—consistent with lighter ungulate tracks in deep snow.
Citations: Britannica confirms elk among the Urals’ richest fauna⁴; Dyatlov‐Pass forum observers have identified two-toed, shallow impressions matching elk hooves⁵.
Negative Constructive (Con–Standard Theories)
Opening Statement
The official investigation found no evidence of animal involvement. Searchers reported no non-human tracks, and the hikers’ methodical footprint patterns undercut panic due to a wildlife threat. Moreover, the severity of injuries on some bodies (crushed ribs, skull fractures) cannot be explained by animal contact.
Citations: Investigators ruled out wildlife attacks due to absence of animal footprints and the deliberate nature of tracks⁶; autopsies revealed traumatic force exceeding any likely animal encounter⁶.
Affirmative Rebuttal
Tracks Covered by Snow. Footprints of the hikers themselves were noted to be quickly obscured within 500 m by fresh snow⁷—similarly, any light elk or mustelid prints close to camp could have been erased by drifting snow.
Selective Evidence Loss. Investigators focused on human prints and may have overlooked subtle animal sign; heavy wind could homogenize fresh snow, masking non‐human prints.
Injury Explanation. Panic‐induced falls onto concealed rocks or tree roots in the dark could account for rib and skull fractures without invoking improbable military or extradimensional forces.
Citations: Search records state footprints were rapidly covered by snow⁷; mistimed forensic emphasis can obscure light animal prints⁵.
Cross-Examination
Affirmative Negative
Q: How could skunk spray penetrate a sealed tent? A: Tents are typically wind-tight; spray particles may not infiltrate fully.
Q: Why no skunk odor noted in official diaries? A: Weather conditions (strong wind) could dissipate smell immediately.
Q: Could an elk actually breach tent fabric? A: Elk avoid humans and might skirt rather than collide with a shelter.
Q: Why no animal hair found on clothing? A: Snow and wind could remove superficial hair deposits before discovery.
Closing Statements
Affirmative
Unexplained panic, the tent cut from the inside, and varied footprint directions are coherently explained by sudden, noxious or frightening wildlife encounters. Chemical defenses of skunks or wolverines and incidental contact with elk offer a unified, natural‐world explanation that aligns with known animal behaviors and regional fauna.
Negative
The absence of direct animal evidence—no tracks, no hair, no eyewitness odor reports—and the nature of the hikers’ injuries strongly favor explanations such as snow slab collapse or internal panic, rather than wildlife provocation.
References
Wikipedia contributors. “Skunk.” Wikipedia, The Free Encyclopedia, 2025.
A-Z Animals. “Why Do Skunks Spray? 6 Animals That Use Smell as a Weapon.” 2023.
Wikipedia contributors. “Wolverine.” Wikipedia, The Free Encyclopedia, 2025.
Britannica editors. “Ural Mountains.” Encyclopædia Britannica, 2025.
Ehtnisba & Radim. “Elk(s) attack.” Dyatlov Pass Forum, April 10, 2019.
Wikipedia contributors. “Dyatlov Pass incident.” Wikipedia, The Free Encyclopedia, last edited April 16, 2025.
Wikipedia contributors. “Dyatlov Pass incident – Search and discovery.” Wikipedia, The Free Encyclopedia, 2025.
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Interesting but it seems to be missing some arguments. The search dogs reaction when coming out of the helicopter, written statements of wolverines in tents, the 3 weeks before the searchers got there etc.
Also the input of the ravine 4 at the time of discovery. That is being found under 3meters of snow at ground level and other researchers suggesting the fractured ribs were similar to crush injuries from an avalanche or snow hole collapse and not forgetting the tree dated by teddy that fell in 1959 which could also be an explanation for many of the injuries.
Interesting concept though and maybe we can refine ?
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I didn't plug in any additionals like I did for the fight argument. But this one is different in that it actually staged a mock debate for both pro and con.
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Seems a fun project. It might be worth a shot of inputting the data without opinions of others. Start with the facts of what we think we know.
9 hikers on a hike with cross country skis
Canvas tent , pitched on low gradient slope 15-30 degrees. Temp range -10 to -35. C. Wind speed potential up to x
Bodies found ( mention raised foot prints) , frostbite burns etc
Injuries found with locations of bodies. Etc. See what happens with a neutral input but stay away from Dyatlov pass data?
I don't know if what I'm asking can be done but if we can start from neutral, then add or take away additional info like rockets, lights in the sky , outsiders 1 by 1 and see what the AI comes up with. ?
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I used one of my deep researches and asked it to use reasoning and not necessarily go with the most popular theories unless it really felt it was the answer. It's been researching over an hour lol. It's been crawling across this website reading and examining photos and autopsy findings. I'll post it when it's done. Hopefully it's not so large I have to convert it to PDF. I'm not even sure if it's allowed here..
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Go with it and see what we get. Does only search English, or does it do all languages? ..
If the www crashes tomorrow we will know it's you! Lol
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I think there's too much text to paste. I'm getting an error, and it's telling me to contact an admin. And I don't know how to post a PDF. Bummer. It blames the snow slab and a second collapse of a second den. Why would they be digging a separate den with a good one with pine flooring not three feet away?
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I think there's too much text to paste. I'm getting an error, and it's telling me to contact an admin. And I don't know how to post a PDF. Bummer. It blames the snow slab and a second collapse of a second den. Why would they be digging a separate den with a good one with pine flooring not three feet away?
The den and where the ravine 4 are in a window of 6 meters or less I think. What I mean and think to be correct is the den with wooden flooring from the cut/ snapped young trees was no further than 6 meters but could be less. The possible reasons for digging a second den has a number of variables, one being, as they were building the flooring for a den( which makes sense for surviving a period of time in the cold) there may have been an natural snow cave over the ravine that was discovered whilst they were making the initial den. It is this cutting of the natural snow cave by using feet and arms to elongate the natural formed snow arch that may have brought a mass of snow down upon them ,causing the injury of the ravine 4. This is not my idea alone, it was suggested before I entered the debate by several sources. So a den with wood flooring is good but a den with a roof is better.
So perhaps the algorithms or whatever are picking up on this theory.
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It seems that the R4's injuries would be more explainable if they had fallen from a collapsed cornice as opposed to snow falling on them. Or an explosive shockwave. How do you reconcile the lack of soft tissue damage but being all busted up on the inside?
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It seems that the R4's injuries would be more explainable if they had fallen from a collapsed cornice as opposed to snow falling on them. Or an explosive shockwave. How do you reconcile the lack of soft tissue damage but being all busted up on the inside?
It is difficult for sure and is much debated . However, the ravine 4 are found at ground level , or close to it , I think there was a report of about 30cm of snow below them but that would only be their lower parts as we can see that the water was flowing over the upper parts of the bodies.
I think the major injuries are all on the side towards the ground. The skull fracture and broken ribs are against the hard ground. This is not how you would lay injured people , so that for me rules out them being injured at the tent , if they could even have walked the distance.
If we imagine that the bodies were lying on their side in mid air and dropped in the same pose as they were found onto hard ground, we could see how there could be broken ribs and fractured skull. We know people can't hover in mid air , so that can't of happened.
Naturally we look for other possibilities,
1)explosion
2) injured at the tent site by a snow slab .
3) that a tree fell on them.
4) they were clubbed or beaten.
5) that they fell out of the tree when getting branches for wood or hiding from someone/thing.
6) that a snow cave collapsed on top of them where they lay.
7) that they fell the 3 meters from a possible cornice( some people don't like the word cornice to describe the ledge at the ravine) at the ravine .
All of the above have experts saying that these are possible and others that say that they are not possible. Or to be fair , experts may have been misquoted in their comments by media sources reporting what was said to make a more sensational mystery . This will cause a problem in using AI as it can't differentiate between someone trying to sell something for views or factual evidence/opinion.
From the above hypothetical possibilities for the ravine 4 injuries, I find a snow collapse causing crush injuries the most likely. We have a mass of snow above them of up to 3 meters and 4 bodies at ground level lying across the path of the stream. That's a lot of energy right in front of us that may have been spent .
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The AI has gotten pretty amazing, it will differentiate if you tell it to. For example, its argument FOR an explosive event and fighting was programmed by me, it used any source. However, if I told it to only cite facts, not opinion it would only do that. The free version might not but the paid GPT's are advanced. I could also tell it to write a report and present it as Sgt Joe Friday, complete with lingo and illustrations lol. I kid you not. But you kinda glossed over the lack of physical injuries matching the trauma, "It is difficult for sure and is much debated." Just tell me what you think. Why wouldn't the snow collapse, or slab injuries inflict massive bruising?
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This took 4 minutes lol. The speech bubbles are a bit off and some bad grammar, and it misspelled your name but hey, I could have fixed it but the artwork changes sometimes lmbo.
(https://i.ibb.co/2YhbrccV/Chat-GPT-Image-Apr-24-2025-09-08-08-AM.png) (https://ibb.co/XkLwPFF0)
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Sorry , I didn't mean to gloss over anything , I'm not sure what you're asking.
I don't think at this moment in time a slab caused the broken ribs or skull. I am also no expert on bruising. I don't think an instant force from the snow above would cause bruising on that side of the body, perhaps so on the contact side with the ground. I'm sure it has been explained somewhere . The nature of the force is all over the body and the ribs are the weakest part .
The AI is not arguing for an explosive event and fighting, you are arguing for an explosive event and fighting and programming the AI? Is this correct? I'm still not understanding what is so great if this is the case.
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Sorry , I didn't mean to gloss over anything , I'm not sure what you're asking.
I don't think at this moment in time a slab caused the broken ribs or skull. I am also no expert on bruising. I don't think an instant force from the snow above would cause bruising on that side of the body, perhaps so on the contact side with the ground. I'm sure it has been explained somewhere . The nature of the force is all over the body and the ribs are the weakest part .
The AI is not arguing for an explosive event and fighting, you are arguing for an explosive event and fighting and programming the AI? Is this correct? I'm still not understanding what is so great if this is the case.
I guess it being great is a matter of perspective, but what I'm trying to point out how it differentiates, or not. What I think makes it great is the speed and time it saves. Also, I'm thinking of creating my own GPT and when I'm configuring it I am going to make it think it is Sherlock Holmes with his personality, everything. That should be a riot! Something new to play with.
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Unfortunately I think it has already been done , perhaps name it Dr joseph bell ?
I'm not sure if it saves speed and time if you are using it in a professional capacity, one error and it's worthless. I can see it's uses but it's an on going process . If I wanted AI to argue any of the Dyatlov cases , I'm sure I could make it do so.
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Unfortunately I think it has already been done , perhaps name it Dr joseph bell ?
I'm not sure if it saves speed and time if you are using it in a professional capacity, one error and it's worthless. I can see it's uses but it's an on going process . If I wanted AI to argue any of the Dyatlov cases , I'm sure I could make it do so.
I really wonder about that.
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Somebody nicked some booze on the train. I bet it was Igor.
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By the sound of it if there was going to be some bad blood it would be between Igor and Zolo two leaders of men, and just maybe Zolo didnt like taking orders from a guy 15yrs his younger but more experienced Igor as we could see in the picture off Zolo on the frozen river on the way to Kolat Syakhl.
(https://i.ibb.co/dNvv5yG/Yuri-Krivonischneko-camera-film-1-frame-28-by-Steve-Halliday.jpg) (https://ibb.co/FQ11Dtg)
I feel that Zolo would have been used to taking orders being in the army but I suppose with his freedom from them, he has unleashed new freedoms hinself..
We can but dream.
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This is from the unknown diary and shows a certain degree of tyranny on Dyatlov's part and apathy from Lydia and anger towards her from the others. This was a group about to meltdown.
January 24, 1959
Last night, about 9-00 we boarded the train №43. At last. There is 10 of us. Slavik Bienko didn't come, they didn't let him. We are going with Blinov group. Fun. Songs. Around 8 am we arrived in Serov. We were not allowed to stay on the train station, the train to Ivdel is at 6-30 pm. We are looking for a room. We are trying to get into the club (to the right of the dining room of the station) and school, but fail. Finally he (? not sure about the identity) finds school number 41 (about 200 meters from the train station), where we were very well received.
January 30.
In the morning it was 17° now it is getting colder. Those on duty (S. Kolevatov and K. Tibo are repeating their duties as a punishment for slowing the group yesterday) took a long time to start a fire. In the evening it was decided that we will leave the tent exactly 8 minutes after waking up. Therefore, all have been awake and waiting for the command. But it is useless. Around 9:30 in the morning we began slowly to rise. Nick T. is joking about something in the morning. Everyone is reluctant to get up.
And the weather! In contrast to the rest of the warm days - today is a sunny cold day. The sun appears playful.
Today as yesterday were are following the path of Mansi. Sometimes Mansi writings appear on trees. In general, all sorts of obscure mysterious characters. There is slogan for our trek, "In a country of mysterious signs". If we knew these letters, it would be possible, without any doubt, to go down the path, confident that it would lead us to the right place. Here the trail takes us to the shores of the river. We lose track. In the future, the trail follows the left bank of Auspiya river, but the team of deer crossed the river and we are going through the woods. At the first opportunity we will turn back to the river. As it is easier to follow it. At approximately 2 pm we stop for a lunch. Dried meat, guest crackers, sugar, garlic, coffee, stocked in the morning - that's our lunch.
Good mood.
A couple more hours - and we will stop at 5pm for the night. We have been looking for a place, then we returned about 200 meters back. Charming place. Deadwood, high pines, in short, everything you need for a good night.
2.
Lyuda quickly got tired and sat down by the fire. Nick Tibo changed his clothes. He began to write a diary. The law is that until all the work is done, do not approach the fire. And so they had a long argument, of who will sew the tent. Finally K. Tibo gave up and took a needle. Lyuda remained seated. And we sewed the hole (and there were so many that there was enough work for all except two attendants and Lyuda. Guys are terribly outraged.
Today is the birthday of Sasha Kolevatov *. Congratulations. We give him a tangerine, which he immediately divided into 8 pieces (Lyuda went into the tent and did not come out until the end of the dinner). So another day of our trek went well.
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I wrote this using AI, however, I programmed it with my arguments as if it were a high school debate, and I was taking the "Pro" stance. You will occasionally see an out-of-place term like "Dyatlov Pass" at the end of a sentence.. This was because when the AI wrote my argument, it provided sources. The Sources were unclickable hyperlinks, and I didn't delete all of them. The "Dyatlov Pass" is a direct reference to this site! So all of my evidence is here. And thank you for that. If requested, I can provide an unadulterated draft with dead links intact.
AI is the rage these days but its very early days. No doubt it will improve rapidly as more and more people use it and improve it. So well done for making a start.
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Many of the injuries could have been caused by fighting or defending, but there is obviously little to go on to prove it. And some injuries are bizarre, not likely to have been caused by fighting or defending.
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When AI decodes the Voynich manuscript, I'll give it more credence to a PDI solution . Humans analyze, bots aggregate.We have done remarkably well at both.
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When AI decodes the Voynich manuscript, I'll give it more credence to a PDI solution . Humans analyze, bots aggregate.We have done remarkably well at both.
I program my bot with my arguments, and I've been letting people know when. It gathers information at incredible speeds and I'll give it a mission. Explosive theory, Karmen Vortex, Slab Slide, Fight and then have it compile the pros and cons. It also helps me absorb the info because unlike a human teacher, it never breaks my b@lls and it's proving a point I am asking for or that I have a "feeling" about.
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Many of the injuries could have been caused by fighting or defending, but there is obviously little to go on to prove it. And some injuries are bizarre, not likely to have been caused by fighting or defending.
Yes this is a hypothesis and yes anyone would agree, but of course there are other ways these injuries could have happened. I think the main problem had been the fact of if indeed this was the case that because of the degree of cold they wouldn't feel their injuries until they felt senseless. But where when and why could this have happened. Eg Fight between Igor and Zolo over the death of ?. I can only envisage a fight happening under this circumstance.
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Seriously, all it would take for these young kids to lose the plot is a couple of shots of straight Russian bodka. I realize I spelled odka wrong, but my (rhymes with b) button doesn't work for some weird reason. Someone rolled the drunk on the train. I really don't think Yuri Yudin told the truth and protected what he thought was their honor. The group was split for a reason. You speak of "liquor stoebs," Ahab, would it be out of the realm of possibilities that eben if Yudin didn't procure legit booze (which is still potent to kids), what if they/ a few drank grain alcohol? Paradoxal undressing isn't such a paradox watching drunk people.
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Seriously, all it would take for these young kids to lose the plot is a couple of shots of straight Russian bodka. I realize I spelled odka wrong, but my (rhymes with b) button doesn't work for some weird reason. Someone rolled the drunk on the train. I really don't think Yuri Yudin told the truth and protected what he thought was their honor. The group was split for a reason. You speak of "liquor stoebs," Ahab, would it be out of the realm of possibilities that eben if Yudin didn't procure legit booze (which is still potent to kids), what if they/ a few drank grain alcohol? Paradoxal undressing isn't such a paradox watching drunk people.
[/ lol2 lol2 lol2 quote] I certainly hope you get your rhymes with B key fixed , had me in stiches here.1. You really think they/someone rolled the drunk on the train. 2. My best friend Ziljoe and myself sorted the alcohol stove out by him finding the firelighters that were used as stated by Hunter in a previous post. 3. Yes its amazing how many Paradoxes there are floating around. Hope you find your V I have lots of them VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV cry2 lol2 Oh Oh Missus just got back from shopping in our Bolts Wagon. lol2 lol2
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These are the droids I have been looking for. But they need some WD40 or brake cleaner, same thing I use to fix my keyboard.
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Why did the girls one of them anyways mention how especially for them it is bad yuri was leaving? Was he their protector from the advances of the others?
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Why did the girls one of them anyways mention how especially for them it is bad yuri was leaving? Was he their protector from the advances of the others?
The two translations I have are ,
January 28
In the morning, everyone was woken up by the mumbling talk of Yurka Kri and Sashka Kolevatov. The weather is smiling on us for now, because it is -8°.
After breakfast, some of the guys, led by Yura Yudin, our famous geologist, went to the core storage, hoping to collect some minerals for the collection. There was nothing there except pyrite and veins of quartz in the rock. It took a long time to get ready: they greased the skis, adjusted the bindings. Yurka Yudin is leaving back home today. Of course, it is a pity for us to part, especially for Zina and me, but nothing can be done.[/b]
And
January 28
We were awaken by the rumbling voices of Yurka Kri (Yuri Krivonischenko) and Sasha Kolevatov (Aleksander Kolevatov). Weather so far is smiling at us. It's only -8°C outside.
After breakfast, some of the guys lead by Yuri Yudin, our well- known geologist, went to look for local minerals. They didn't find anything except pyrite and quartz veins in the rock. Took them long time to wax their skis and adjust the mounting. Yuri Yudin goes back home today. It is a pity, of course, that he leaves us. Especially for me and Zina, but nothing can be done about it.
It notes:Lyuda Dubinina - this entry is not signed, but can't be anybody else but Dubinina
It is written in the group diary so all will see it at some point. I think it's just words of affection that will later be read and yudin will be seen as a valued group member. I think yudin was good friends with them both but the hikers had all been on a number of hikes with each other and various options to join different hikes were available.
I would say it was a written to be seen and just politeness of one of the group having to drop out of the adventure and a good fun companion would be missed by them. Men in general don't write in such a way.
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Why did the girls one of them anyways mention how especially for them it is bad yuri was leaving? Was he their protector from the advances of the others?
Short and sweet . Yuri dated Zina for a while and she still had the hots for him and Lluda was on the horizon too.
Ok I have moved along, nothing here, they wern't the ones I was looking for: what now.
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Zina has dated one of the other hikers not Yuri. It just seems an odd thing to say.
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Zina had dated Yuri Doroschenko before the hike.
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Yes not yudin.
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It strikes me that we do not have to treat these theories as mutually exclusive. A slab could have come down on the tent and tensions could have been boiling over inside. Choosing to camp on that slope was asking for trouble, the kind of trouble that exposes cracks in group discipline. You can see it in the photos: Zolotaryov with that hard, almost defiant expression while Igor bends to his journal, and Doroshenko looking caught between. In the trench digging shots, Zolo’s face reads "what the hell are we doing here" while Dyatlov looks grim, locked in his role as leader.
That Soviet frame of mind matters. These were not Western students out for a carefree adventure. They were raised in a system that drilled conformity and endurance, where backing down was not just personal weakness but dishonor to the group. A clash between Igor’s authority and Zolotaryov’s experience is not far-fetched, it is almost expected in those conditions. Add cold, fatigue, and maybe a sudden noise or slab impact, and you have the recipe for both a panicked exit and fists flying once they were outside.
When people talk about the "unknown compelling force," it is usually framed as something external. But sometimes the real compelling force is just human, personalities under pressure, bad decisions amplified by the environment, and the rigid Soviet ethos that made compromise almost impossible.
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It strikes me that we do not have to treat these theories as mutually exclusive. A slab could have come down on the tent and tensions could have been boiling over inside. Choosing to camp on that slope was asking for trouble, the kind of trouble that exposes cracks in group discipline. You can see it in the photos: Zolotaryov with that hard, almost defiant expression while Igor bends to his journal, and Doroshenko looking caught between. In the trench digging shots, Zolo’s face reads "what the hell are we doing here" while Dyatlov looks grim, locked in his role as leader.
That Soviet frame of mind matters. These were not Western students out for a carefree adventure. They were raised in a system that drilled conformity and endurance, where backing down was not just personal weakness but dishonor to the group. A clash between Igor’s authority and Zolotaryov’s experience is not far-fetched, it is almost expected in those conditions. Add cold, fatigue, and maybe a sudden noise or slab impact, and you have the recipe for both a panicked exit and fists flying once they were outside.
When people talk about the "unknown compelling force," it is usually framed as something external. But sometimes the real compelling force is just human, personalities under pressure, bad decisions amplified by the environment, and the rigid Soviet ethos that made compromise almost impossible.
Exactly, this has always been a frustration for me when theories have always tried to encompass everything reported like the tongue and missing eye's being cut out. We can still have outsiders forcing them out of the tent but nature removing them. Depending on how you read the autopsy, it can read as if it's the soft tissue surrounding the tongue that's missing.
It is the sensationalism of how we are first introduced to the mystery that gives us a bias to what happened. That in itself is an interesting psychological effect.
I can't see anything in the photos, if I do, I would see it as satire , a deliberate joke photo. The photo seems to coincide with them getting slightly lost on the Mansi trail. To take a photo like that , the person taking the photo has to move into position , adjust the exposure etc . The pose has to be selected by those in the frame , then click. They know they will see each others photo. To me , it's just a joke of , hurry up and get us out of the treeline .
I think students are students the world over. I also think they were care free , in fact ,a large part of Soviet society seemed to function in a similar way to the west , in some cases better than the UK. Looking at all the photos of the previous hikes and other hikes there seems to be a joy of being in these places and friendships. Some of the photos show artistic thinking and there's joy and laughter in the searcher photo's.
They talk of art , science, music , movies , love. It's all human , the Soviets weren't sitting in bunkers eating cabbage soup thinking of how to attack the west and rule the world. They weren't robots being dictated too and their is so much more to the culture. This doesn't mean the population wasn't paranoid but the same goes for today and in the west.
We had terrible conformity forced against us in the west, certain factions of the church were horrific in how they treated people and ran through the education and political systems. Some of it was inexcusable.
A fight between two can't be ignored and is possible but leaving the tent and all its equipment makes it seem unlikely to me . That's where I get stuck .
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Not to me when you factor in who the tent belonged to.
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A missile or an airplane passing overhead. The taiga to the east of the Ural Mountains is at an altitude close to sea level. Therefore, the Urals are where the altitude of a missile or airplane traveling west is minimized. These flying objects create sound waves. It is scientifically certain that they caused an avalanche or a slab slide. Specifically, they could have caused a cut snow block to move. While Zolotaryov and Tibo were trying to photograph the objects passing through the night sky, the tent occupants may have been buried in snow.
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Meanderings I think. Seems like the whole group is taking off in all directions Ha Ha.
Who does the tent belong to. I dont think it has been Identified exactly but I have always taken it as being the Ural Uni, they paid for everything else including money for the project and I have a feeling that Dyatlov had words with them about replacing the tent as it was full of holes and needed repairing every hike ( I wont use the word "rotten" don't want to upset anyone).
Re OSI and sounds at night. I would agree that sounds would be amplified at night and flights of any types would be heard, very softly as most trajectories would be at their very apex. Enough to cause an avalanche I don't think so. The weathers needs to be taken into account and by all means hasn't been definitely ascertained yet.Bombs or objects is another thing. Another group of hikers were on their way to Otorten I dont know how near but they most likely would hear everything that our friends heard.
Solving the case - - - KISS.
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Meanderings I think. Seems like the whole group is taking off in all directions Ha Ha.
Who does the tent belong to. I dont think it has been Identified exactly but I have always taken it as being the Ural Uni, they paid for everything else including money for the project and I have a feeling that Dyatlov had words with them about replacing the tent as it was full of holes and needed repairing every hike ( I wont use the word "rotten" don't want to upset anyone).
Re OSI and sounds at night. I would agree that sounds would be amplified at night and flights of any types would be heard, very softly as most trajectories would be at their very apex. Enough to cause an avalanche I don't think so. The weathers needs to be taken into account and by all means hasn't been definitely ascertained yet.Bombs or objects is another thing. Another group of hikers were on their way to Otorten I dont know how near but they most likely would hear everything that our friends heard.
Solving the case - - - KISS.
I don't think there was another group going to Otorten .
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Ziljoe, I take your point about sensationalism. The way the case was first framed, tongues cut out and eyes gouged, planted bias early on. When you re-read the autopsies carefully, a lot of those details look more like natural decomposition. That doesn’t lessen the tragedy but it should keep us honest. I also agree with you that students are students the world over. There was joy in those photos. Like they just did a few shots of vodka. At the same time, when I look at Zolo’s expression in that trench photo next to Igor’s stern face, it still reads like tension to me. Maybe it was posed, maybe not, but personalities do leak through the lens.
Osi, I think sound may well have played a role, but maybe not in the way you mean. Even a sudden crack of settling snow or the weird acoustics of wind over the ridge could shake nerves. Whether a plane or missile actually passed overhead is harder for me to accept without supporting evidence, though. I am more convinced by the idea of a modest slab release, the kind that would not bury the tent in meters of snow but still crash down hard enough to panic a group.
And ahabmyth, you do make me smile with the "solving the case KISS" sign-off. If only it were that simple. Every time this mystery gets stamped "solved," it seems to sprout another contradiction. I still believe the core may have been human, a fight or clash of authority inside the tent, possibly sparked or compounded by the slab. A poor campsite choice, personalities under pressure, and maybe one last external jolt. Not elegant, not cosmic, but sometimes human messiness is the true unknown compelling force.
Here's an image of something that has been sticking with me. Yes, I realize the stove is wrong. The guy with the knife had a meltdown when he had to sleep too close to the stove. Or did he hear something he didn't like?
(https://i.ibb.co/sdQYsvgY/yuri-kri.png) (https://ibb.co/S40CVX6C)
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OJ , which photo do you refer to with zolo expression and dyatlov having a stern face? ( Out of interest).
I could see a small fight and have thought about it. If 9 of us here were on that hike icould see us having disagreement and perhaps a push and shove with a fist thrown, but... We also have others in the group that are sensible and meditate like amushila . I don't think a fight would make them migrate all the way down to the cedar without taking more equipment.
Keeping it super simple, for me , the tent and equipment had to be left behind.
There is enough numbers in the group to stop a full blown fight . If it were the case , then some would dominate and at least have full clothing and tools etc.
The only scenario I can think of is someone going mental and holding a knife to one of the groups throats forcing the rest down the slope. Otherwise the majority would easily overcome the individual.
I muse over over all theories and I understand that there may of been friction within the group but for all of them to leave the resources of the tent is difficult to find a working model, even with a couple of shots of vodka.
The terrain and weather doesn't lend itself to a group having an extended physical fight in my opinion.
I don't dismiss your suggestion of friction.
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Ziljoe, I take your point about sensationalism. The way the case was first framed, tongues cut out and eyes gouged, planted bias early on. When you re-read the autopsies carefully, a lot of those details look more like natural decomposition. That doesn’t lessen the tragedy but it should keep us honest. I also agree with you that students are students the world over. There was joy in those photos. Like they just did a few shots of vodka. At the same time, when I look at Zolo’s expression in that trench photo next to Igor’s stern face, it still reads like tension to me. Maybe it was posed, maybe not, but personalities do leak through the lens.
Osi, I think sound may well have played a role, but maybe not in the way you mean. Even a sudden crack of settling snow or the weird acoustics of wind over the ridge could shake nerves. Whether a plane or missile actually passed overhead is harder for me to accept without supporting evidence, though. I am more convinced by the idea of a modest slab release, the kind that would not bury the tent in meters of snow but still crash down hard enough to panic a group.
And ahabmyth, you do make me smile with the "solving the case KISS" sign-off. If only it were that simple. Every time this mystery gets stamped "solved," it seems to sprout another contradiction. I still believe the core may have been human, a fight or clash of authority inside the tent, possibly sparked or compounded by the slab. A poor campsite choice, personalities under pressure, and maybe one last external jolt. Not elegant, not cosmic, but sometimes human messiness is the true unknown compelling force.
Here's an image of something that has been sticking with me. Yes, I realize the stove is wrong. The guy with the knife had a meltdown when he had to sleep too close to the stove. Or did he hear something he didn't like?
(https://i.ibb.co/sdQYsvgY/yuri-kri.png) (https://ibb.co/S40CVX6C)
IMHO I think there maybe those amongst us (very diplomatic) that tend to delve into the smallest idiosyncrasies of the hikers when there is no need , again IMHO. The incident with Yuri Kri I think was a standing joke by the two girls as they had him under the stove before from what I remember, and him coming out of it calling them traitors may have been a little over the top and he was l think lost for words ,he would have known damn well what it would be like near/under the stove.
The dimensions of the tent for 9 people (and it was nearly 10)is unimaginable to me. the area is bad enough but the height of 1 mtr is the pits, imagine a stove that I would guess is about 10" deep then take minimum 10" from apex of roof for wire attachment , leaves 20" .not surprised you would feel uncomfortable. Oh and the pic with the Traitor sign ,sorry but cant see any knife (maybe his sharp words). With a tent that size I am sure there would have been heaps of uncomfortable hikes, I cannot imagine trying to walk around bent in two and having to scramble over other people.LOL .As Ziljoe has just posted I can't recollect a photo with Zolo and Igor having a scowling match.
With the cutting of the tent (inside or out) I am fairly sure an overwhelming force is an overwhelming force, however sometimes I express this when I need to use a toilet. The autopsies with missing eyes and tongue is just too much to contemplate and leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I can agree about the students, as a whole they are the same the world over - stupid.
KISS
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Ziljoe - Thankyou for the compliments in your first paragraph.
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OJ , which photo do you refer to with zolo expression and dyatlov having a stern face? ( Out of interest).
I could see a small fight and have thought about it. If 9 of us here were on that hike icould see us having disagreement and perhaps a push and shove with a fist thrown, but... We also have others in the group that are sensible and meditate like amushila . I don't think a fight would make them migrate all the way down to the cedar without taking more equipment.
Keeping it super simple, for me , the tent and equipment had to be left behind.
There is enough numbers in the group to stop a full blown fight . If it were the case , then some would dominate and at least have full clothing and tools etc.
The only scenario I can think of is someone going mental and holding a knife to one of the groups throats forcing the rest down the slope. Otherwise the majority would easily overcome the individual.
I muse over over all theories and I understand that there may of been friction within the group but for all of them to leave the resources of the tent is difficult to find a working model, even with a couple of shots of vodka.
The terrain and weather doesn't lend itself to a group having an extended physical fight in my opinion.
I don't dismiss your suggestion of friction.
There was no need to dress warmly, as the plan was not to go all the way to the cedar. The plan was to end it on the slope, take pictures of the corpses, and return to the tent. A tent on a slope was very suitable for this. It's not hard to gain control over someone. If you don't expect something, you can't react to it.
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OJ , which photo do you refer to with zolo expression and dyatlov having a stern face? ( Out of interest).
I could see a small fight and have thought about it. If 9 of us here were on that hike icould see us having disagreement and perhaps a push and shove with a fist thrown, but... We also have others in the group that are sensible and meditate like amushila . I don't think a fight would make them migrate all the way down to the cedar without taking more equipment.
Keeping it super simple, for me , the tent and equipment had to be left behind.
There is enough numbers in the group to stop a full blown fight . If it were the case , then some would dominate and at least have full clothing and tools etc.
The only scenario I can think of is someone going mental and holding a knife to one of the groups throats forcing the rest down the slope. Otherwise the majority would easily overcome the individual.
I muse over over all theories and I understand that there may of been friction within the group but for all of them to leave the resources of the tent is difficult to find a working model, even with a couple of shots of vodka.
The terrain and weather doesn't lend itself to a group having an extended physical fight in my opinion.
I don't dismiss your suggestion of friction.
There was no need to dress warmly, as the plan was not to go all the way to the cedar. The plan was to end it on the slope, take pictures of the corpses, and return to the tent. A tent on a slope was very suitable for this. It's not hard to gain control over someone. If you don't expect something, you can't react to it.
Suri So why the killing of them on the slope and what was the Overwhelming force that was used - a gun. And who was the traitor - and who carried all the bodies to the area. More questions to come.
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Suri So why the killing of them on the slope and what was the Overwhelming force that was used - a gun. And who was the traitor - and who carried all the bodies to the area. More questions to come.
The overwhelming force was not in the weapon. Nobody wanted to kill with a gun. Everything was to look like an accident with no signs of violence. The moment of surprise was important. The combination of surprise and cold did its job. I don't know what you mean by someone carrying all the bodies to the area. They got to the cedar and the ravine on their own. Who the traitor was, you have to figure that out yourself, you have the diaries and the scene of the incident.
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Suri So why the killing of them on the slope and what was the Overwhelming force that was used - a gun. And who was the traitor - and who carried all the bodies to the area. More questions to come.
The overwhelming force was not in the weapon. Nobody wanted to kill with a gun. Everything was to look like an accident with no signs of violence. The moment of surprise was important. The combination of surprise and cold did its job. I don't know what you mean by someone carrying all the bodies to the area. They got to the cedar and the ravine on their own. Who the traitor was, you have to figure that out yourself, you have the diaries and the scene of the incident.
I dont understand, if they were killed on the slope how did they get to where there final resting place was. They cant have been Zombies and walked there themselves. And most important "why were they killed".
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OJ , which photo do you refer to with zolo expression and dyatlov having a stern face? ( Out of interest).
I could see a small fight and have thought about it. If 9 of us here were on that hike icould see us having disagreement and perhaps a push and shove with a fist thrown, but... We also have others in the group that are sensible and meditate like amushila . I don't think a fight would make them migrate all the way down to the cedar without taking more equipment.
Keeping it super simple, for me , the tent and equipment had to be left behind.
There is enough numbers in the group to stop a full blown fight . If it were the case , then some would dominate and at least have full clothing and tools etc.
The only scenario I can think of is someone going mental and holding a knife to one of the groups throats forcing the rest down the slope. Otherwise the majority would easily overcome the individual.
I muse over over all theories and I understand that there may of been friction within the group but for all of them to leave the resources of the tent is difficult to find a working model, even with a couple of shots of vodka.
The terrain and weather doesn't lend itself to a group having an extended physical fight in my opinion.
I don't dismiss your suggestion of friction.
There was no need to dress warmly, as the plan was not to go all the way to the cedar. The plan was to end it on the slope, take pictures of the corpses, and return to the tent. A tent on a slope was very suitable for this. It's not hard to gain control over someone. If you don't expect something, you can't react to it.
If there was no need to dress warmly that has taken away surprise in the tent already.
There could be no surprises once in the tent, unless say a bullet or a knive etc through the tent, then there is surprise.
Where on the slope do you think they were murdered, at the top or bottom.
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They walked to the places where they were found on their own, except for Dyatlov. He didn't have a dynamic pose. I said that everything should have been finished on the slope, not that everyone was killed there and then moved elsewhere. That's also why the tent was placed on a slope. However, only three remained neutralized on the slope, so it was necessary to finish the rest. The event dragged on unplanned and ended tragically even for the traitors.
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They walked to the places where they were found on their own, except for Dyatlov. He didn't have a dynamic pose. I said that everything should have been finished on the slope, not that everyone was killed there and then moved elsewhere. That's also why the tent was placed on a slope. However, only three remained neutralized on the slope, so it was necessary to finish the rest. The event dragged on unplanned and ended tragically even for the traitors.
Ok Suri , I am gonna have a stab at this. On this basis I will say that I don't know how "they" made the group leave the tent. Maybe a smoke grenade or the like.
Having moved the group out of the tent they are marched down the slope. Zina is singled out thrown into the snow in a dynamic pose (she puts up a fight hence the bruised knuckles )and everyone waits till she is dead. They then march further down and have fisties with Rustem, hitting him either side of his head with clubs (bruises on knuckles) and throw him down, he dies. The others stand watching in disbelief . Then Igor is next he fought but beaten (he is dazed and reaches out for a branch on a nearby dead bush but again he dies lying on the snow in a non-dynamic pose. Marching on the rest of them realise they are going to die, the two Yuris are forced to light a fire and then made to climb a tree until totally exhausted and fall off , they are then stripped and forced to lie in the snow, they die. The last 2 are ready to die, they are laid in the snow until dead. Now the last two drag the bodies of Dubinina and Brignolle to the ravine but unfortunately for them also fall from a cornice with their victims into the icy water and freeze to death. So looks like Zolo hatched the plot on government orders, he was outside the tent with Tibo when it all started.
How did I do Suri.
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Good, but it's not entirely accurate. There were more traitors.
How to force a group to leave the tent. The best option is to get them out one by one. The leader is the first to stand in your way. So he was the first to be immobilized at the tent, without the others suspecting anything. It was enough to catch him when he wanted to go pee. There was no need to do anything further. The remaining tourists gradually left the tent voluntarily, unaware of what awaited them outside. Curiosity pulled them outside. At that moment, Slobodin didn't have time to put on his second pair of boots, it was already boiling outside the tent. The only ones who had a chance to do anything were the 2 Yuris, because they already knew what was happening in front of the tent. They managed to at least take a photo, but even they eventually had to submit if they wanted to save their friends.
What happened on the slope happened in an instant. It's not like someone just stood there and watched. While Zina and Slobodin were already being given proper "care", the two Yuris, carrying Dyatlov, separated from the group in the other direction and after a few meters, they laid Dyatlov down by a birch tree and headed towards the forest. They had no other choice. Dyatlov was not hugging the birch, he was only leaning against it, he was no longer capable of anything. While the traitors were rampaging on the slope, the 2 Yuris had the opportunity to hide without fire in a cedar.
When it was all over and no one else was left, the traitors then simultaneously fell into the stream in pairs. During the impact, one fell on top of the other, so only two had broken ribs. In pairs, they were too heavy and the place couldn't withstand the onslaught.
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Who cut the tent? Who chopped the trees for the flooring?
Whose handiwork is the fire, as well as Georgy's burns:
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Who cut the tent? Who chopped the trees for the flooring?
Whose handiwork is the fire, as well as Georgy's burns:
Krivonischenko cut through the tent with his knife. The fire was started by the four from the ravine. Kolevatov had matches with him. The trees on the floor were made by the one who had the knife with him. And that was the four in the ravine. A knife was found on them. Yuri's burns are from fire and also from burning torches.
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SURI, what's the point of the fight and murder?
Jedi, where did the group get dynamite? USSR is not USA - you can't buy factory explosives in a gun shop.
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Good, but it's not entirely accurate. There were more traitors.
How to force a group to leave the tent. The best option is to get them out one by one. The leader is the first to stand in your way. So he was the first to be immobilized at the tent, without the others suspecting anything. It was enough to catch him when he wanted to go pee. There was no need to do anything further. The remaining tourists gradually left the tent voluntarily, unaware of what awaited them outside. Curiosity pulled them outside. At that moment, Slobodin didn't have time to put on his second pair of boots, it was already boiling outside the tent. The only ones who had a chance to do anything were the 2 Yuris, because they already knew what was happening in front of the tent. They managed to at least take a photo, but even they eventually had to submit if they wanted to save their friends.
What happened on the slope happened in an instant. It's not like someone just stood there and watched. While Zina and Slobodin were already being given proper "care", the two Yuris, carrying Dyatlov, separated from the group in the other direction and after a few meters, they laid Dyatlov down by a birch tree and headed towards the forest. They had no other choice. Dyatlov was not hugging the birch, he was only leaning against it, he was no longer capable of anything. While the traitors were rampaging on the slope, the 2 Yuris had the opportunity to hide without fire in a cedar.
When it was all over and no one else was left, the traitors then simultaneously fell into the stream in pairs. During the impact, one fell on top of the other, so only two had broken ribs. In pairs, they were too heavy and the place couldn't withstand the onslaught.
Ok Suri will try and understand (from my point).
Igor goes out for pee and and is gagged and tied up to a tree. The perpetrators wait, till one by one the hikers come out for a pee, by this time so cold could practically pee, snap it off and throw it outside though, ( don't understand about the girls, as they needed to disappear when having a pee ). So waiting for possibly hours, the last 2 Yuri come out and are overpowered, they carry Igor down the slope and he is laid on a tree, so far so good. Zina and Rustem were dropped off on the way. Then the 2 Yuris are forced up a tree until they fall down dead.
Then the remaining 4 are walking away and fall into the creek, two off them falling on one another (their excuse), taking a photo of themselves as he couldn't stand the onslaught any longer.
How did I do
Common sense isnt all that common.
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Who cut the tent? Who chopped the trees for the flooring?
Whose handiwork is the fire, as well as Georgy's burns:
George Burns was a comedian ???.
Common sense isnt all that common.
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Good, but it's not entirely accurate. There were more traitors.
How to force a group to leave the tent. The best option is to get them out one by one. The leader is the first to stand in your way. So he was the first to be immobilized at the tent, without the others suspecting anything. It was enough to catch him when he wanted to go pee. There was no need to do anything further. The remaining tourists gradually left the tent voluntarily, unaware of what awaited them outside. Curiosity pulled them outside. At that moment, Slobodin didn't have time to put on his second pair of boots, it was already boiling outside the tent. The only ones who had a chance to do anything were the 2 Yuris, because they already knew what was happening in front of the tent. They managed to at least take a photo, but even they eventually had to submit if they wanted to save their friends.
What happened on the slope happened in an instant. It's not like someone just stood there and watched. While Zina and Slobodin were already being given proper "care", the two Yuris, carrying Dyatlov, separated from the group in the other direction and after a few meters, they laid Dyatlov down by a birch tree and headed towards the forest. They had no other choice. Dyatlov was not hugging the birch, he was only leaning against it, he was no longer capable of anything. While the traitors were rampaging on the slope, the 2 Yuris had the opportunity to hide without fire in a cedar.
When it was all over and no one else was left, the traitors then simultaneously fell into the stream in pairs. During the impact, one fell on top of the other, so only two had broken ribs. In pairs, they were too heavy and the place couldn't withstand the onslaught.
Ok Suri will try and understand (from my point).
Igor goes out for pee and and is gagged and tied up to a tree. The perpetrators wait, till one by one the hikers come out for a pee, by this time so cold could practically pee, snap it off and throw it outside though, ( don't understand about the girls, as they needed to disappear when having a pee ). So waiting for possibly hours, the last 2 Yuri come out and are overpowered, they carry Igor down the slope and he is laid on a tree, so far so good. Zina and Rustem were dropped off on the way. Then the 2 Yuris are forced up a tree until they fall down dead.
Then the remaining 4 are walking away and fall into the creek, two off them falling on one another (their excuse), taking a photo of themselves as he couldn't stand the onslaught any longer.
How did I do
Common sense isnt all that common.
No comment. Waste of time.
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SURI, what's the point of the fight and murder?
It was their task, it was planned. The tent on the slope only confirms it. Under normal circumstances, it would not have been there, its placement was forced, not by order, but by clever manipulation that had been going on all day.
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SURI, what's the point of the fight and murder?
It was their task, it was planned. The tent on the slope only confirms it. Under normal circumstances, it would not have been there, its placement was forced, not by order, but by clever manipulation that had been going on all day.
Think not Suri as I have read it the tent/camp "was" supposed to be there and not the cedar.The route taken to the mountain was the correct one according to the itinerary. The alternative "found" by Igor was a harder but quicker route through the taiga. We do not know which route they took apart from authorities word, which must be taken as the basis. Igor was the "boss" and if it is said that he was manipulated, well he was the one who suggested they have a "cold" night, it just wasn't as he expected.
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SURI, what's the point of the fight and murder?
Jedi, where did the group get dynamite? USSR is not USA - you can't buy factory explosives in a gun shop.
It's just a potential explanation for the injuries that had no external markings but pulverized insides like being hit by a car. I incorrectly thought that geologists had access to small charges. It was also an attempt to explain the fireballs seen from a distance and the burned tops of trees that Ivanov observed. Unless Yudin had explosives or someone like Dyatlov found some at the last town, I find it unlikely. If I were to go that route, I would think Molotov Cocktails over explosives. I find it unfathomable that these people were able to start and keep a fire lit without any sort of accelerant. And I don't think you can buy explosives at a gun store here.
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ahabmyth
Krivonischenko's name was Georgy. His friends called him Yura. It is believed that this is one of the abbreviations of the name. You read the full name Krivonischenko differently than in the Russian Federation, Ukraine, and Belarus.
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ahabmyth
Krivonischenko's name was Georgy. His friends called him Yura. It is believed that this is one of the abbreviations of the name. You read the full name Krivonischenko differently than in the Russian Federation, Ukraine, and Belarus.
Hunter, you said "Who cut the tent? Who chopped the trees for the flooring?
Whose handiwork is the fire, as well as Georgy's burns:"
And then he says he thought George Burns was a comedian. George Burns was an American comedian with his wife Gracie Allen. He was making a joke, I think.
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I presumed lighting of a fire was in part due to the use of alcohol that was found in a flask. Yes I know they are capable but under the conditions maybe a bit quicker.
A leader of some of the searchers found the alcohol it and drank it, so could never know how much the flask contained and whom it was found on or not.
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ahabmyth
1. No alcohol was found in the flask. Tempalov found a flask with the smell of alcohol.
2. Read the autopsy. It's not a superficial burn.
3. And how did he get burned by alcohol? Spilled it and struck a match?
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Hunter.
1. Sure it was Burinov or like name. One of the first officials to the tent.
2. Don't think I said it was a superficial burn (I cant even spell superficial).
3. No never said he was burned with alcohol ,I suggested the alcohol was used for lighting the fire.
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ahabmyth
Using alcohol/spirits to light a fire in winter is not rational in terms of the consumption of this liquid.
OLD JEDI 72, if I use my country's jokes, you will hardly understand them.
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I agree, hence why his joke attempt failed. And I'm not sure what you mean by rational. Rational as in sound of mind, or rational as in a specific quantity? Because if it's the first choice, then how can they be expected to have made any rational decisions? Look where they camped in the first place. Look at the state of undress. How do you start a fire with wooden matches and logs? Do you take the time to whittle out some wood shavings? Wind whipping around, wet ground. It very well may be some sort of accelerant was used that didn't necessarily appear in an inventory because it was used and the container was lost.
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OLD JEDI 72
Using alcohol for kindling in winter is very wasteful. The guys couldn't use it at the cedar because the flask was left in the tent. I'm talking about this - the assumption that alcohol was used for kindling during the hike by mistake. Some groups took dry fuel (aka dry alcohol) or strips of organic glass or plastic for kindling.
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OLD JEDI 72
Using alcohol for kindling in winter is very wasteful. The guys couldn't use it at the cedar because the flask was left in the tent. I'm talking about this - the assumption that alcohol was used for kindling during the hike by mistake. Some groups took dry fuel (aka dry alcohol) or strips of organic glass or plastic for kindling.
Your logic is flawed, who would care what was wasteful at that time? They were half-dressed, lacking footwear, and just walked a mile downhill over rocks and were freezing. Also, who cares about the flask in the tent? The fire was at the cedar, not the tent. What I'm saying is that someone had some kind of accelerant that wasn't accounted for. They had wooden matches but who had enough foresight to have these other items you speak of when they didn't even have shoes in some cases! Which made me realize something else, how did they strike these matches? Were they Ohio Blue safety matches?
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OLD JEDI 72
Using alcohol for kindling in winter is very wasteful. The guys couldn't use it at the cedar because the flask was left in the tent. I'm talking about this - the assumption that alcohol was used for kindling during the hike by mistake. Some groups took dry fuel (aka dry alcohol) or strips of organic glass or plastic for kindling.
Your logic is flawed, who would care what was wasteful at that time? They were half-dressed, lacking footwear, and just walked a mile downhill over rocks and were freezing. Also, who cares about the flask in the tent? The fire was at the cedar, not the tent. What I'm saying is that someone had some kind of accelerant that wasn't accounted for. They had wooden matches but who had enough foresight to have these other items you speak of when they didn't even have shoes in some cases! Which made me realize something else, how did they strike these matches? Were they Ohio Blue safety matches?
I think we discussed this at the begining of this year because I went to a local pine wood to make sure that I wasn't going mad . It was wet and slight snow about -1 degree Celsius.
It took two attempts of breaking small branches at shoulder height, the donor trees were about 7 meters tall . The two branches were a bit thicker than a pencil or pen. I broke the branches exactly at the base of the branch and the trunk of the tree. There was considerable amount of sap , I brought a lighter to the end of the branch at it took light in two to three seconds. It stayed alight , popping and crackling giving off a beautiful smell . This I suspect is what they will have used . We also know they had various pieces of paper in their pockets , they may have had more and used some to start the fire.
It might be you are thinking that all they had were long log branches of a diameter of 90mm as reported as found and then how do you light such a big log without some sort of accelerant?.
It is most likely that they broke a lot of small branches , either off the dry wood of the cedar and or other branches in the area . As is standard for anyone with basic outdoor knowledge of starting a fire , small twigs , bigger twigs , small branches , bigger sticks then logs . A small piramid of weathered cedar or pine , perhaps some birch bark and you have a decent starting point.
I don't have the experience of extreme cold fire starting and what parts of the trees are best . There are plenty of videos on YouTube about starting fires and how to build them. However, a number of years ago I did learn how to select trees / wood in my own environment. We surfer from the wet which is a challenge but can be done.
I have managed to light a fire from 100% material around me during early March and a striking rod. One strike of the rod ( spark ) and the fire just took off.
At least two off them had matches on their person , I would assume that the striker would be with the matches. It takes effort and knowledge but can be done . It is a strong reason for argument about choosing the cedar and it's dry branches for the main heat source. It would take an age fumbling about in the snow and dark to find a suitable dry or dead tree . They had nothing to cut large dead wood, the dead wood on the ground may have had water frozen inside which would be of little use.
The Mansi chum ( picture of the cut trees stacked in a piramid ) which is not a chum may have been the fuel source when the Mansi travelled that way, the vertical stacking allows the wood to dry as does the exposure to the wind.
I don't think there's anything strange or difficult about them starting a fire, although a fire and den next to each other is the ideal.
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Ziljoe, I'm not sure, but I think I vaguely remember an exchange regarding the tree tops being burned, and you pointed out it could just be bare trees. I honestly don't remember the sap thing, or maybe didn't retain it because I was focused on something else, but it definitely is plausible! I appreciate it! thanky1
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Ziljoe, I'm not sure, but I think I vaguely remember an exchange regarding the tree tops being burned, and you pointed out it could just be bare trees. I honestly don't remember the sap thing, or maybe didn't retain it because I was focused on something else, but it definitely is plausible! I appreciate it! thanky1
Stop being nice , you're making me feel uncomfortable.....I joke.
I just think it would be possible to get a fire going , especially with matches , perhaps a few attempts but sap is quite amazing.
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OLD JEDI 72
How could they use the alcohol from the cedar if it was left in the tent? They had paper that could be used to light a fire. Some things could also be used for kindling.
And if we are talking about a standard situation, then no one would waste alcohol on kindling either.
Plus, there were matches lying around the fire pit, i.e. they lit the fire. And then the matches were carried in matchboxes or cases, where together with the matches they put a "chirkash" - a strip of rough material on which the matches are lit.
Ziljoe
You can also light damp wood, the main thing is to have time to reach a self-sustaining mode.
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Ziljoe
You can also light damp wood, the main thing is to have time to reach a self-sustaining mode.
Yes, I know this but when you have limited resources and you may be in a state of hypothermia with only matches and , you wouldn't use frozen wet wood. You need heat.
It could be argued that once they started a fire with the Cedar branches , why did they not bulk the fire with wood that was lying on the ground? It maybe that the tipping point had come .
What is your thoughts on the incident?
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Hunter, let me repeat, the fact that a bottle of alcohol was inventoried in the tent doesn’t prove there wasn’t another. Just as scraps of paper or a strip of chirkash could be in someone’s pocket, a small bottle could have been carried along and never made it into the official lists. Was this chirkash in the inventory, or the bits of paper you speak of? That’s not unusual in the field, inventories show what was found, not necessarily every personal item each hiker had on them.
Think of it this way: In Ukraine, it’s not uncommon for someone on a trek to have a hidden flask of samohon (home-distilled spirit) for warmth or morale, while the "official" supply stays with the group. If you later searched their camp and only found the communal bottle, would you assume no one ever carried their own? Of course not, common sense says a rogue flask could have existed, whether or not it was logged.
That said, I’m not even leaning on alcohol as the main answer here. Sap from conifers is highly flammable, and we know from both searcher reports and practical tests that resinous cedar and pine twigs will catch quickly. So while it’s worth keeping an open mind about "a missing bottle," they didn’t need alcohol to get that fire going at the cedar. Matches, paper scraps, birch bark, and resinous twigs are all you need.
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Ziljoe
Some of the clothes, paper money, and part of the magazine that was found with Zolotarev could have been used as kindling. They could have put the firewood they found, the rest was under the snow, so they didn't put it there.
OLD JEDI 72
Neither the searchers nor modern researchers found another flask. Glass is not effective in a hike.
According to the rules of conducting a search, everything should have been described in detail.
I think that the fire near the cedar was lit without the help of alcohol.
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Hunter, I am thinking they did not use alcohol either, (at least not to start a fire) and agree that paper in pockets or chirkash mixed with resinous materials could get a fire going, but you'd really have to be perfect about it in all respects, which obviously they were for a small amount of time; but I just can't move on from the way you come to this conclusion. You're basing your conclusion on an inventory list. And what rules are supposed to be done in a search. I will sit here for an eternity until you see that just because someone did not find something doesn't mean it didn't exist. And when I say a "bottle of alcohol" it does not necessarily mean a literal glass bottle! It could have been contained in anything; bottle is a generic term. There were also other unaccounted items such as knives, and they were on the inventory. These are things my AI claims were found but were not on the inventory. Using your logic, should we assume these items did not exist because they were not on the inventory? As I said earlier, I do believe we both are thinking along the same lines, but it just irks me how you are basing your conclusions. If the AI got anything wrong, my apologies, but the point remains. These things weren't on the list, so do they really exist?
• “Unknown camera” and extra film:
Cameras dossier (case files 384–387) (https://dyatlovpass.com/case-files-384-387)
• Dyatlov’s pocket contents:
Igor Dyatlov personal items (case files 11–20) (https://dyatlovpass.com/case-files-11-20)
• Fur vest found on Dyatlov / returned clothing:
Dyatlov items page (covering fur vest returns) (https://dyatlovpass.com/case-files-11-20)
• Knife accounting oddities vs returns:
Knives overview (https://dyatlovpass.com/knives)
Return of items to families (https://dyatlovpass.com/return-of-the-items)
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A chirkash (singular chirkash) is the side surface of a matchbox that was used to light them. In those days, wax/paraffin or two cartridges - one 12, the other 16 gauge - were often used to seal matches. If you are interested, I can tell you. I suspect, and it is reasonable, that the searchers could have left some of the things "as a souvenir". For example, a flask for alcohol, which they carry in their pocket. But the problem is different - they do not carry alcohol there, with a strength of 96%, but alcohol with a strength of about 40%. And it burns quickly and will not allow the firewood to dry properly if you do not do good preparatory work. In the form of "fiery feathers", small branches, split lengthwise. I say this as an experienced pyromaniac.
It would be better to create a separate topic about knives. I wrote an article about this at the time.
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Ziljoe
Some of the clothes, paper money, and part of the magazine that was found with Zolotarev could have been used as kindling. They could have put the firewood they found, the rest was under the snow, so they didn't put it there.
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Yes hunter, I have said this , do you not read the posts?
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I read through Google Translate, which sometimes translates crookedly.
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What do I think about the incident? It is quite possible that they walked to the cedar on adrenaline. And the adrenaline was still bubbling when they were making a fire. Then the strength began to decline. To light a fire, they could set fire to an entire matchbox at once. In the USSR, there were boxes like these:
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhgq68jPkMaAMcxoR_AhikWiKGzXpSU2D6_sE7y0b6XgjgWyKlSkpKNwKOmMRRhLlGLfZYls5nx1Kjx2XpSshdC-ygSAPuEF7ylyABtPJMoyOGPCG0mEEkzfP1BpTw3nzrWUuptkLYUKm5U/s1600/spichki.jpg)
This method gives a strong temperature at the start and can dry out damp branches.
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Ah, the chirkash is the gritty strip. I did not hear anything about match boxes, Hunter, only loose matches sewn into clothes.
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How come you haven't heard of them? Never used them? Only lighters and flints?
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No, we just use Ohio Blue Tips. You can actually strike them anywhere. With or without chirkass.
(https://i.ibb.co/4wH9f1Jk/51u-WQh-RWe-RL-AC.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
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Actually, matches can be lit on any rough surface. For example, sandpaper.
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I dunno ziljoe, but maybe a splash of high proof alcohol onto the initial kindling. I refer to kindling as shavings and the sap you described. Even plastics on fire will keep it going with sap. Not great on the environment lol but I admit in my younger years of throwing plastic on fires. I'm starting to lean back towards a rocket event as causing a slab slide and scaring the bejesus out of everyone with the noise and creating pure panic.
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Jedi, then one flask of alcohol won't be enough for a hike. Or two, either.
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I dunno ziljoe, but maybe a splash of high proof alcohol onto the initial kindling. I refer to kindling as shavings and the sap you described. Even plastics on fire will keep it going with sap. Not great on the environment lol but I admit in my younger years of throwing plastic on fires. I'm starting to lean back towards a rocket event as causing a slab slide and scaring the bejesus out of everyone with the noise and creating pure panic.
I also messed around with various plastics , petrol in burning shenanigans with friends, how we are still alive is another question.
Our brains can think cold, freezing, wind and a couple of matches and that there would be no chance of starting a fire. It's logical to think this but fires can be started, it's just about getting the correct process .
The scene at the tree does tend to indicate it was the hikers that started the fire and not outsiders . If the wood is dry enough and you use the method of small twigs to larger branches then even the smallest flame will take .
I had difficulty as a youngster lighting a fire at home in a house and a fireplace with dried kindling, newspaper, Firestarters and seasoned wood but I have learnt how to make fires outdoors with all that is available in nature with nothing more than a spark. A match or lighter is better than a spark. Obviously it can take a bit of time to get going but it can be done if you are used to doing it and I suspect the hikers would have had lots of experience in starting fires , in houses and outside .
To be able to start a fire would suggest that no one was fighting .
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It is not a fact that what is interpreted as traces of a fight are in fact these traces.
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It is not a fact that what is interpreted as traces of a fight are in fact these traces.
Very true. Nothing is proven. I was playing around and this image is the result.
(https://i.ibb.co/HL3rYsPq/86bc2928-983a-4ea9-84d4-14c17c18fd32.png) (https://ibb.co/WNjcFwzf)
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Imagine being frostbitten by a massive temperture inversion and a few nips off the bottle that was 'appropriated' from the pi1$head on the train. BTW, even RUNNING water that is freezing is still warmer than the outside air. I think the ravine 4 all jumped into the water to relieve themselves. It became too much!
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I am very proud that this thread has the amount of views that it has been getting. I wonder why all has been quiet (in general) in here as well. At least a week before anyone has piped up. I guess there is a time for everything under the sun. A time to comment, a time to read..
(https://i.ibb.co/bMCf0Zjm/Igor-Dyatlov-Petr-Bartolomey.jpg) (https://ibb.co/8LfhCpns)
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I am very proud that this thread has the amount of views that it has been getting. I wonder why all has been quiet (in general) in here as well. At least a week before anyone has piped up. I guess there is a time for everything under the sun. A time to comment, a time to read..
Yes. I am celebrating Hebrew New Year, 5786.