Dyatlov Pass Forum
Theories Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: GlennM on March 01, 2026, 07:17:00 AM
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Brignole On the left forearm there are two watches: a Sportivnye watch showing the time 8 hours, 14 minutes, 24 seconds, and a Pobeda brand watch showing the time 8 hours, 39 minutes.
Dyatlov The watch "Zvezda" (Star) on the his wrist had stopped at 5:31
These factoids mean nothing without context. Given Igor's personality, would he compulsively wind his watch daily at a given time?
Is a Sportivnye a stopwatch?
Why two watches for Brignole?
If someone on the forum is enamored with timepieces, we might be able to run the clock backwards to theorize whether the tent was left by day or night. We might conclude a stopwatch, if there was a stopwatch, was triggered shortly after an important decision was made.
We might conclude Brignole removed a watch from one of the Yuri's because there is little reason to wear two watches otherwise.
I am doubtful that any watch was routinely wound after they left the tent because watch winding is an ordinary, not extraordinary habit.
Finally, it occurs to me that a watch case flipped over could produce sunlight flash reflections to signal passing aircraft. I do not think Igor was thinking it, nor about timing his ascent to the tent anticipating a scheduled flight of geologists. This line of reasoning seems more wishful thinking in my estimation. The watch case itself was against his wrist, yes?
I can search Google Images and find these Soviet Watches. They seem like commodity items and none appear to be stopwatches.
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Brignole On the left forearm there are two watches
Without a doubt, it is something very strange. I have never seen anyone wearing two watches.
For what reason could I take two and not one as would be normal? twitch7
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Night duty for passing the watch to the next person or perhaps having one wound at a different time. Not at different oclock time but just if one watch stopped by forgetting to wind it you would still have several hours on the second watch to then keep the correct time?
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The watch was taken off Yuri after his death. The rolled-up left sleeve of the shirt corresponds to this.
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The watch was taken off Yuri after his death. The rolled-up left sleeve of the shirt corresponds to this.
I didn't know about that detail. Maybe they did it with the intention of returning it to his relatives thinking he would come back soon, or to have more security about the time.
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The watch probably couldn't be unfastened due to the cold, so it was forcibly torn from his hand.
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I'd like to know how many hours any of these watches will work hen fully wound.
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GlennM, did you own a mechanical watch? I did. Well, the instructions recommended winding the watch at the same time every time. The name "Sports" is just a reference to the watch model/brand. It had a stop-seconds function for more precise time setting. It didn't have a separate stopwatch, like many digital watches or some mechanical watches.
There are several theories about the two watches. Some suggest that one of the watches had a luminous dial. Others suggest that Thibault gave the watch to him for safekeeping because its owner might engage in work that required abrupt movements, which is detrimental to the watch's mechanism, even the shock-resistant one. Still others suggest that he took it off his body to give it to his family—watches were expensive back then. A status symbol, so to speak.
A watch's winding time in those days was enough for 30-40 hours.
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Hunter, thank you for your recent post. With a 30 to 40 hour duration, the 10 hour variance effectively includes morning and evening, so that is of little help. Also, since the watches were likely rewound on a daily basis, the mainspring was already under tension. As such, I believe there is nothing of significance with regard to timing their activities toward the end.
I think that the significance of two watches on Brignole is in regard to the Nurse Solter debacle. By this, I mean that if the dead were delivered to a morgue, undresssed and then redressed and taken back to the forest, only an idiot is going to put two watches on the same person. Yes, there are other what if's, but I don't buy the fiction at all.
The bodies were not found and robbed before discovery. As you imply, a wristwatch was something worth having. Unless engraved, one watch is just like another, especially with stock wrist straps. Too, of course the dead has some money on them too. Assasins and other such musings are not supported by any physical evidence.
It is curious, not significant that Brignole's watches stopped close in time.
Dyatlov's watch hints at nothing. Again a 10 hour variance does nothing to clear up whether they left the tent by day or night.
It appears that the "smoking watch" to steal a phrase from " smoking gun", is another red herring in getting to the answer of the " when" of things. Appreciated.
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GlennM, I was born in the USSR, albeit at its twilight. So, the attitude toward things in the USSR was a little different than in the West. What were considered mass-market goods in the West weren't expensive, but in the USSR they could cost a lot of money (for the USSR, by comparison). Many in the USSR who were able to travel, even to other socialist countries, did business. This is a separate, large topic; if you're interested, look up who the "fartsovshchiki" (black marketeers) and "tsekhoviki" (workshop workers) were in the USSR. How much did ordinary jeans cost in the USSR, and what was the average salary?
In the 1950s, watches were a status symbol in the USSR. Many people got by without them, using radio signals and street clocks for orientation. For reference, a "Sport" watch cost 40-60 rubles, while the average salary at the time was 700-900 rubles.
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Hunter, thank you for those insights. Your comment reinforces the idea that there was no robbery, and hopefully no trophy taking among the hiking group. I like the idea that the watch was removed from Yuri for a remembrance for his family. The case files already demonstrate that prior to an official inventory, things were taken for the benefit of the rescue party, primarily food and drink.
I get the idea from the individual case files that a watch would be a necessity for an expedition leader and a justifiable expense.
I suppose that watches were not removed at bedtime. If they were, I would try to forge a connection between that and that so many of them had their outerwear ski pants on. Surely ski pants could not be slept in, given the bodies were described as wearing several layers of upper and lower body garments. So, we have a tent set up and internally organized on 1079 and the hiking group found a mile away dressed in ski pants, were they dressing in the morning, or undressing the night before? I am thinking this was the next morning.
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Other groups' reports mention wristwatches as communal equipment. The Dyatlov group's skis were also used for search purposes. And judging by indirect evidence, some of the items may have been kept as souvenirs by the searchers who knew them.
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To avoid creating unnecessary myths, I decided to clarify this situation.
I just asked my mother in the middle of the night at what age she started wearing a wristwatch, and I got the answer I expected.
She started working as a teacher in Serov at age of 20 years and 2 months; that was 1953.
As we know, all the hikers were older.
At the same time, Lyuda Dubinina's father was a high-ranking official and opened doors with his foot.
And his daughter didn't wear a watch on the hike. Where's the status in that?
As for the pocket watches Kolevtatov had, that's a common occurrence.
I knew such watches existed, but I'd never seen anyone use them.
Only when the strap broke did I temporarily carry the watch in my pocket.
Now I sometimes use a Chinese mechanical watch. The arrow for seconds moves, but it can't be adjusted in any way.
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I believe Igor had the best reason for wearing a timepiece. I would have thought Zolo would wear one.
Axelrod, I suppose your dear mother used her watch as a tool, being a teacher. She must have been excellent to have such an articulate son,
My head is filled with American psycho drama thrillers. In these stories, the bad guys will either leave a " calling card" or take a trophy from their victims. This is another reason why assasins or thugs being involved in this incident does not convince me. I know you have carefully constructed a theory, and perhaps paid assasins resist such temptation. For me, human nature is to collect things because memory fades. A watch would qualify.
All I can think of about Dubinina is that a watch, like jewelry stayed home with mother. Losing something on a hike is a loss forever.
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I can't believe i missed this, i knew but forgot.. The reason for two watches is most likely Naismiths rule invented by a fellow Scot ...
Its for navigation and timing along with a formula. You have one watch running at normal time and the second watch as the chronograph. So when you stop to look at the map, climb an obstacle or have a break you stop the clock. This gives you an estimation of the distance traveled . The formula allows for elevation as well so its quite possible it was used that day to ascend the pass or even for navigation down to the cedar.
Whatever the case, it was a known method and probably the reason for two watches on one person. It was just to check time traveling or time in motion for the group.
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Ziljoe, your theory has two weaknesses:
1. None of the watches in the Dyatlov group were chronographs.
2. There was no point in them keeping such precise time. A couple of minutes of running time, plus or minus, doesn't change the result.
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The position of the hand and the rolled-up sleeve on Juri's hand indicate that the watch was taken off when he was no longer conscious. That's why the injuries on his left hand and that's why Tibo didn't have gloves because he had been manipulating the watch before. Ravine 4 did not die before both Yuris.
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The position of the hand and the rolled-up sleeve on Juri's hand indicate that the watch was taken off when he was no longer conscious. That's why the injuries on his left hand and that's why Tibo didn't have gloves because he had been manipulating the watch before. Ravine 4 did not die before both Yuris.
Completely true. There is no need to complicate things. The Ravine 4 removed all outwear from Yuris' corpses, even those pieces they did not need immediately. What could be the reason then to leave the watch to the corpse? The Ravine 4 expected to save themselves and return the watch to Yury's relatives. But they were not ready to drag the bodies with all their belongins to the nearest settlement.
And sure, the Ravine 4 were the last to die.
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Ziljoe, your theory has two weaknesses:
1. None of the watches in the Dyatlov group were chronographs.
2. There was no point in them keeping such precise time. A couple of minutes of running time, plus or minus, doesn't change the result.
Thank you Hunter but im going to push back on this one.
The reason for using two watches is to use them as a chronograph . You keep one running as normal and stop and start the other watch .
When traveling in the forest or poor visibility, there are various methods in calculating your distance and using the watch is one. Its good practice and over a day of starting and stopping adds up.
Heres AI to save me writing rubbish.
Yes, using two watches was a common, practical, and effective navigation technique for hillwalking in the 1950s, particularly when applying Naismith’s Rule. Before digital GPS and electronic stopwatches, mechanical watches were the primary tool for measuring time-based distance (dead reckoning).
Here is why two watches were used:
1. The Purpose: Timing Legs and Total Time
Watch A (Time of Day): Kept on the wrist to know the actual time, essential for planning, monitoring daylight hours, and knowing when to make a decision point.
Watch B (Elapsed Time / "Lap" Time): Often a pocket watch or a second, simpler watch, this was used to time specific legs of a journey. A walker would set this watch to 12:00 (or note the starting time) when leaving a known landmark (e.g., a cairn) to calculate precisely how long it took to reach the next landmark.
Why Two? In the 1950s, watches did not have a "stopwatch" function (chronograph) or a bezel. Using one watch meant constantly resetting it or risking forgetting the starting time of a leg.
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2. The Context: Naismith’s Rule (1950s)
Devised by William Naismith in 1892, this rule was the standard for estimating walking time in the 1950s:
The Rule: Allow 1 hour for every 3 miles (5 km) forward, plus 1 hour for every 2,000 feet (600 meters) of ascent.
How it worked with Watches: A walker would look at their map, calculate that a particular climb should take 45 minutes, and use their second watch to verify they were on track. If they had not reached the target landmark when the 45 minutes were up, they knew they were moving too slowly or were off-course.
3. Redundancy (The "Old" Factor)
In the 1950s, mechanical watches were susceptible to stopping due to moisture, getting knocked, or simply needing to be wound. Having a second watch meant that if one failed, you were not lost in the hills without a way to measure your navigation legs.
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Summary: Using two watches in the 1950s was a simple, manual "stopwatch" method to track progress against a planned route in accordance with Naismith's Rule, ensuring walkers didn't get caught out by poor visibility or darkness.
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Brignole On the left forearm there are two watches: a Sportivnye watch showing the time 8 hours, 14 minutes, 24 seconds, and a Pobeda brand watch showing the time 8 hours, 39 minutes.
Dyatlov The watch "Zvezda" (Star) on the his wrist had stopped at 5:31
These factoids mean nothing without context. Given Igor's personality, would he compulsively wind his watch daily at a given time?
Is a Sportivnye a stopwatch?
Why two watches for Brignole?
If someone on the forum is enamored with timepieces, we might be able to run the clock backwards to theorize whether the tent was left by day or night. We might conclude a stopwatch, if there was a stopwatch, was triggered shortly after an important decision was made.
We might conclude Brignole removed a watch from one of the Yuri's because there is little reason to wear two watches otherwise.
I am doubtful that any watch was routinely wound after they left the tent because watch winding is an ordinary, not extraordinary habit.
Finally, it occurs to me that a watch case flipped over could produce sunlight flash reflections to signal passing aircraft. I do not think Igor was thinking it, nor about timing his ascent to the tent anticipating a scheduled flight of geologists. This line of reasoning seems more wishful thinking in my estimation. The watch case itself was against his wrist, yes?
I can search Google Images and find these Soviet Watches. They seem like commodity items and none appear to be stopwatches.
Glennm.
You have pushed my brain down rabbit holes and i have thought if something that ties in a bit of potential logic to the possibility that the hikers use of a stop watch and the time of day of the incident. I've used AI for this as it gets a bit messy but there is some logic and reasoning.
Possible Interpretation of Thibeaux‑Brignolle’s Two Watches and the Timing of the Descent
I want to suggest a possible explanation for the two different watch times found on Thibeaux‑Brignolle’s wrist. This isn’t presented as fact, only as a plausible idea that seems to fit the physical evidence, the distances involved, and the kind of practical time‑keeping hikers often used.
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The Watch Times
Thibeaux‑Brignolle was found wearing:
- Sportivnye: 08:14:24
- Pobeda: 08:39:00
The difference between them is:
24 minutes 36 seconds
This is a very clean interval — the kind of duration that looks measured rather than accidental.
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A Suggestive Interpretation of What May Have Happened
1. Both watches originally showed the same correct time.
2. After the group decided to head toward the forest, Thibeaux stopped the Sportivnye at 08:14:24.
This would mark the start of the descent, not the incident itself.
It would be standard and sensible practice to time the descent so they could later estimate how far the tent would be if they tried to return in poor visibility.
3. The group then descended the slope while the Pobeda kept running.
The distance from the tent to the cedar/ravine is about 1.5 km, and the expected walking time is around 25 minutes.
4. When they reached the cedar/ravine — the first place they could shelter — he stopped the Pobeda at 08:39:00.
This gives the exact duration of the descent:
24 minutes 36 seconds
This matches the expected walking time almost perfectly.
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Why This Makes Practical Sense
- Timing the descent would help them estimate how long it should take to go back up if they attempted to return to the tent.
- Stopping one watch at the start of the descent and the other at the shelter point is a simple, effective way to record that.
- Thibeaux’s final location in the ravine fits with the idea that the watches were stopped before later events (fire, den construction, injuries).
This interpretation treats the watches as navigation tools, not as indicators of death times.
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What This Implies About the Time 08:14
If this interpretation is correct, then:
08:14:24 marks the moment the group began the descent,
not the moment of the incident.
Because Soviet watches are 12‑hour dials, this could be:
- 08:14 in the morning, or
- 08:14 in the evening/night
Both are plausible:
- Morning 08:14 fits with eating, dressing, or preparing for the day.
- Night 08:14 fits with undressing, relaxing, or settling in the tent.
The mixed states of dress in the tent are compatible with either.
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A Coherent Timeline Based on This Interpretation
- 08:14:24 — Start of descent
Group decides to head for the forest.
Thibeaux stops the Sportivnye to begin timing.
- 08:14–08:39 — Descent
Group travels ~1.5 km downhill.
Pobeda keeps running.
Duration measured: 24 minutes 36 seconds.
- 08:39:00 — Arrival at cedar/ravine
Thibeaux stops the Pobeda.
They now know the descent duration for a possible return.
- After 08:39 — Later events
Fire at cedar, slope return attempt, ravine den construction.
Thibeaux dies later in the ravine, but the watches were already stopped.
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Why This Idea Might Be Worth Considering
- It explains the 24‑minute gap in a practical, realistic way.
- It matches the actual descent distance and expected walking time.
- It fits Thibeaux‑Brignolle’s location and likely behaviour.
- It gives a plausible reason for stopping the watches at two different times.
- It aligns with known hiking practice: timing a leg of travel to estimate distance for the return.
- It requires no unusual assumptions — just straightforward mountain logic
We could go further in our interpretation, and we must remember this is 1959. There are no GPS tools , good maps etc. the hike is all about good map reading and knowing where you are at all times. There is a strong need for visual markets both in long distances. A bare slope with no features is not ideal to navigate.
We also have the hikers walking in a line , this helps to walk in a straight line when walking without a reference point and poor visibility, we also have the torch on the slope in the on position.
All of this does suggest an attempt to measure distance , using the tools at their disposal at short notice . If for example , the visibility was approximately 800 meters , they would lay the torch as the half way marker and they would have a time reference from the time difference on the two watches. They would know walking up hill for 24 minutes is too short for the tent location and they could add the approximation by ten minutes along a line to find the potential covered tent.
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One problem ive just thought of is the watches are not reported as. Being in the off position. Sigh....
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I apologize for a simple assumption. When they left the store and headed to the nearby forest... they would carry a flashlight with them, otherwise one or two watches are of little use to them if they couldn't see the hands in the dark of night. Right?
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Ziljoe, from my experience, I can say this: calculating distance traveled based on time (for example, it's assumed that a person at a normal pace walks about 5 km per hour) is only accurate for sports fields. Terrain complicated by natural obstacles and additional loads (like a backpack) reduce speed. As an experiment, moving in an unfamiliar forest is about 3 km/h for a trained person without additional loads, while for an untrained person, it's half that.
Estimating distance traveled is subjective; it's no wonder that hikers later tried using homemade odometers.
Regarding the interval between watch stops, the "Sportivnye" and "Pobeda" watches, according to a 1957 catalog of watches and watch accessories, had a power reserve of at least 34 hours. It's quite possible that the guys wound their watches simultaneously or almost simultaneously, for example, in the morning between getting up and setting out on the trail. Considering the watches are from different manufacturers, plus the tolerances within the GOST standard, a difference of 24 minutes and 36 seconds is insignificant. Also, don't forget that on a mechanical watch, 8:00 a.m. could be 8:00 a.m., just as it could be 8:00 p.m., meaning the difference could be as much as 12 hours, 24 minutes, and 36 seconds, rather than 24 minutes and 36 seconds.
As for orientation, the remnants were used as landmarks. If visibility is zero, then climbing is pointless—you could miss the exit point by several hundred meters, even though you felt like you were heading in the right direction.
If you're interested, I can share some books on tourism from those years. They're in Russian, though.
Javier, in the USSR some watches had a dial with a luminous coating.
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I apologize for a simple assumption. When they left the store and headed to the nearby forest... they would carry a flashlight with them, otherwise one or two watches are of little use to them if they couldn't see the hands in the dark of night. Right?
Almost all of them had a box of matches, so a flashlight might have been not necessary. However, I doubt very much that they had been caring about exact time after the DPI started.
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Brignole On the left forearm there are two watches: a Sportivnye watch showing the time 8 hours, 14 minutes, 24 seconds, and a Pobeda brand watch showing the time 8 hours, 39 minutes.
Dyatlov The watch "Zvezda" (Star) on the his wrist had stopped at 5:31
These factoids mean nothing without context. Given Igor's personality, would he compulsively wind his watch daily at a given time?
Is a Sportivnye a stopwatch?
Why two watches for Brignole?
If someone on the forum is enamored with timepieces, we might be able to run the clock backwards to theorize whether the tent was left by day or night. We might conclude a stopwatch, if there was a stopwatch, was triggered shortly after an important decision was made.
We might conclude Brignole removed a watch from one of the Yuri's because there is little reason to wear two watches otherwise.
I am doubtful that any watch was routinely wound after they left the tent because watch winding is an ordinary, not extraordinary habit.
Finally, it occurs to me that a watch case flipped over could produce sunlight flash reflections to signal passing aircraft. I do not think Igor was thinking it, nor about timing his ascent to the tent anticipating a scheduled flight of geologists. This line of reasoning seems more wishful thinking in my estimation. The watch case itself was against his wrist, yes?
I can search Google Images and find these Soviet Watches. They seem like commodity items and none appear to be stopwatches.
What are you actually trying to say !?
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Brignole On the left forearm there are two watches
Without a doubt, it is something very strange. I have never seen anyone wearing two watches.
For what reason could I take two and not one as would be normal? twitch7
Is it really strange for someone to wear 2 watches!?
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GlennM, I was born in the USSR, albeit at its twilight. So, the attitude toward things in the USSR was a little different than in the West. What were considered mass-market goods in the West weren't expensive, but in the USSR they could cost a lot of money (for the USSR, by comparison). Many in the USSR who were able to travel, even to other socialist countries, did business. This is a separate, large topic; if you're interested, look up who the "fartsovshchiki" (black marketeers) and "tsekhoviki" (workshop workers) were in the USSR. How much did ordinary jeans cost in the USSR, and what was the average salary?
In the 1950s, watches were a status symbol in the USSR. Many people got by without them, using radio signals and street clocks for orientation. For reference, a "Sport" watch cost 40-60 rubles, while the average salary at the time was 700-900 rubles.
There were many good-quality items made in the days of the USSR. I remember being shown a pair of Russian [ USSR ] binoculars once, in Cornwall, that were used by the British Coastguard because they were far superior to anything made in the West.
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After World War II, captured German equipment was highly prized in the USSR. Take Zeiss binoculars, for example. Yes, the USSR produced high-quality goods, but they were mostly exported or distributed among the elite. The average citizen had virtually no access to them.
Imported items, so-called "brand name" items, were highly prized among Soviet citizens, even though these "brand names" were often counterfeited in underground factories. For example, jeans, which were not available for sale in the USSR (except in Beryozka stores, where they could be purchased with so-called "checks"), cost almost as much on the black market as the average monthly salary of most Soviet citizens. Moreover, these jeans were often not made in the West (the era of Chinese "clones" had not yet arrived), but in underground factories. For example, in a sewing workshop on the third shift. In your example, these binoculars were clearly manufactured for export, so their quality was higher than those that were sold on the civilian market within the USSR.
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On the night of February 28–March 1, 1953, Stalin's latest (and, as it turned out, final) late dinner with Politburo members Beria, Malenkov, Khrushchev, and Bulganin concluded at the Blizhnyaya Dacha in Kuntsevo. The guests departed around three or four in the morning. As was customary, Stalin was left alone—the security system he had created meant that the leader was always completely alone in the evenings and at night. Guards were not allowed to enter his rooms without being summoned.
All day on March 1, Stalin remained in his rooms. The guards waited anxiously for many hours, not daring to disturb the established routine. Only late in the night, using the pretext of delivering mail, did the assistant commandant of the dacha, Lieutenant Colonel Pyotr Lozgachev, enter Stalin's room. After passing several rooms, he discovered the leader lying on the floor of the small dining room. The stopped clock showed 6:30 PM—that's when the stroke apparently occurred.
Beria and Malenkov, summoned to the dacha, arrived around 3:00 AM on March 2. After confirming that Stalin was lying on the sofa and apparently asleep, they went home without calling a doctor. Medical assistance was not provided until the morning of March 2. The fight for Stalin's life continued for several more days; he died on the evening of March 5, 1953.
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Brignole On the left forearm there are two watches
Without a doubt, it is something very strange. I have never seen anyone wearing two watches.
For what reason could I take two and not one as would be normal? twitch7
Is it really strange for someone to wear 2 watches!?
Yes, normally it is strange to wear two watches (maybe in case one breaks to have another or, as you have already mentioned, it could belong to one of his deceased companions). But I think that detail has little relevance in a case where there are many concerns, don't you think?
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Ziljoe, from my experience, I can say this: calculating distance traveled based on time (for example, it's assumed that a person at a normal pace walks about 5 km per hour) is only accurate for sports fields. Terrain complicated by natural obstacles and additional loads (like a backpack) reduce speed. As an experiment, moving in an unfamiliar forest is about 3 km/h for a trained person without additional loads, while for an untrained person, it's half that.
Estimating distance traveled is subjective; it's no wonder that hikers later tried using homemade odometers.
Regarding the interval between watch stops, the "Sportivnye" and "Pobeda" watches, according to a 1957 catalog of watches and watch accessories, had a power reserve of at least 34 hours. It's quite possible that the guys wound their watches simultaneously or almost simultaneously, for example, in the morning between getting up and setting out on the trail. Considering the watches are from different manufacturers, plus the tolerances within the GOST standard, a difference of 24 minutes and 36 seconds is insignificant. Also, don't forget that on a mechanical watch, 8:00 a.m. could be 8:00 a.m., just as it could be 8:00 p.m., meaning the difference could be as much as 12 hours, 24 minutes, and 36 seconds, rather than 24 minutes and 36 seconds.
As for orientation, the remnants were used as landmarks. If visibility is zero, then climbing is pointless—you could miss the exit point by several hundred meters, even though you felt like you were heading in the right direction.
If you're interested, I can share some books on tourism from those years. They're in Russian, though.
Javier, in the USSR some watches had a dial with a luminous coating.
Thanks for the detailed reply — it’s really helpful to hear your perspective. I agree that estimating distance by time is never exact in real terrain, especially with snow, wind, and backpacks. I’m not suggesting they were calculating kilometres, only that time can give a rough sense of “how far back up the slope the tent should be” if visibility is poor. In darkness or a whiteout, time and bearing are often the only tools available.
About the watches: I completely understand that the two times could be a coincidence. Mechanical watches can stop close together, especially in cold conditions, and I’m not arguing against that possibility at all. I’m only suggesting an alternative idea — that Tibo may have stopped them deliberately to record the descent time. Both watches belonged to him, and the times happen to match the approximate duration of the descent and arrival at the cedar. It might be coincidence, or it might be intentional; I’m not claiming one over the other, just exploring possibilities.
Your point about power reserve and winding tolerances is fair, and the AM/PM ambiguity makes the picture less clear. I’m only looking at the fact that both watches stopped at times that align with the group’s movement pattern, which makes it an interesting detail to consider alongside the standard explanations.
On orientation: I agree that in zero visibility you can drift badly. The group also had no detailed map of the immediate slope — only a general sense of the ridge and valley — so if the tent became invisible or drifted over, they wouldn’t have many reference points. That’s why I was thinking about time and bearing as a rough way of knowing “we should be close now,” rather than anything precise. The torch on the slope and the straight line of footprints suggest they were trying to keep a consistent bearing, which fits with the idea that they intended to return to the tent.
One thing worth adding is that Soviet sports‑tourism groups were required to keep records of time spent travelling as part of documenting distance and route sections. It wasn’t about exact kilometres — it was about logging how long each leg of the journey took. That habit of tracking time was part of their training. They were also taught how to move in whiteout conditions, where visibility can drop to nothing and landmarks disappear. In those situations, using time and bearing becomes a sensible and taught approach, because it’s often the only way to estimate where a fixed point (like a tent) should be when you can’t see it.
I’m not trying to overturn anything — just exploring how the small details might fit together. I appreciate your input; it helps keep the idea grounded and realistic.
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I’m not trying to overturn anything — just exploring how the small details might fit together. I appreciate your input; it helps keep the idea grounded and realistic.
It seems to me that the moment the clock hands indicate suggests that the hands were positioned downwards, under the influence of gravity.
They were able to descend, but the spring was unable to lift them back up.
Yes, 18:30 for Stalin and 17:30 for Dyatlov suggest that the hands were at the bottom of the dial.
If someone's arms was lying on their side, then it was 8:40. So, it's a moment, but it doesn't tell us anything.
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Javier, there are many possible explanations for the two watches on his wrist. Here are the most likely:
1. Thibault was supposed to be on duty, and he was given a watch with a luminous dial.
2. The watch was given to him by someone who had to do heavy work to avoid breaking it.
3. Thibault took the watch from the deceased to give it to his family.
Ziljoe, bearings are taken by compass and azimuth, not by watch. Thibault didn't own two watches. At best, he owned one.
They weren't taught how to navigate in zero visibility. On the contrary, according to reports, the groups stopped until the storm passed or even retraced their steps.
Axelrod, gravity had no effect on the watch hands there.
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Hunter
A bearing is a chosen direction. You can do this by any means. Using a watch along with counting steps is an extremely basic method for estimating the distance you travel. You have no other means. He was found with two watches? And that is what we are talking about. How do you know they weren't taught to navigate in zero visibility. No one knows why the stopped. The point is to why he may have been wearing two watches.
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A bearing on 1079 could be ascertained by having an objective. That would be trees. Trees are downhill from the tent. Bearing problem solved. You might argue that the Yuri's climbed the cedar in order to get a visual after the darkness and weather cleared. That is another thread, I think.
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GlennM, landmarks work in good visibility. In poor visibility, you either stay put or follow a compass bearing. Judging by reports from those years, tourists weren't taught how to navigate in near-zero visibility.
If the weather had cleared, the group could have returned using the buttes as a guide.
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A bearing on 1079 could be ascertained by having an objective. That would be trees. Trees are downhill from the tent. Bearing problem solved. You might argue that the Yuri's climbed the cedar in order to get a visual after the darkness and weather cleared. That is another thread, I think.
Absolutely. Any visual land mark or stoping and looking back at your tracks for example. You just need two points of reference.
If the visibility was restricted when they left the tent and they had to find some sort of warmth for survival then down the slope is the only way. They may not be sure where they erected their tent on 1079 relative to the map if the visibility was poor at the time of erecting the tent.
I would have thought that if a storm was coming it would easier and quicker to move to the forest than dig and erect a tent. None of this maters to the having two watches but their were practical reasons for this. It is not theft of a watch or keeping it for returning to the family.
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GlennM, landmarks work in good visibility. In poor visibility, you either stay put or follow a compass bearing. Judging by reports from those years, tourists weren't taught how to navigate in near-zero visibility.
If the weather had cleared, the group could have returned using the buttes as a guide.
A person in front of you is a land mark , a rock , a tree . Its like lining sights on a gun. You have a tree 200m away and some close , you aim along that bearing.
The tourists might not know where they are exactly plus they had to leave the tent . The tent could have been covered with snow drifts and the foot prints. How on earth would you find the tent again?.
Whats buttes?
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So, we have it that twin watches can assist in measuring distance in terms of traverse time. We have it that in poor conditions, the grade of the slope is a method for finding the tree line. We know that the descending group did not travel in circles, which could happen if the lead person had an instinctive tendency to favor right or left Of course when the wind starts blowing on a cheek instead of the back of the next, a course correction is necessary. My guess is that once they left the tent, there was no wasted time in getting behind some trees. Some speculate that the Yuri's died following a heroism involved in scaling the cedar for finding their direction to the tent plus stomping on branches for firewood. I am not so sure about any of that.
With the insights of a veteran forum member, I am inclined to think that the 8 o'clock hour was in the evening, not morning. I like this as an explanation for why the boots were off, but not the ski pants. You would having a tough time taking pants off with boots on, yes? Easier too if the winter coat is off first. It makes bending over easier, especially if in cramped quarters. If it were 8 o'clock in the morning, I'd think they would all put on their coats after getting out of bed, then pants, then boots. I wasn't there though.
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After World War II, captured German equipment was highly prized in the USSR. Take Zeiss binoculars, for example. Yes, the USSR produced high-quality goods, but they were mostly exported or distributed among the elite. The average citizen had virtually no access to them.
Imported items, so-called "brand name" items, were highly prized among Soviet citizens, even though these "brand names" were often counterfeited in underground factories. For example, jeans, which were not available for sale in the USSR (except in Beryozka stores, where they could be purchased with so-called "checks"), cost almost as much on the black market as the average monthly salary of most Soviet citizens. Moreover, these jeans were often not made in the West (the era of Chinese "clones" had not yet arrived), but in underground factories. For example, in a sewing workshop on the third shift. In your example, these binoculars were clearly manufactured for export, so their quality was higher than those that were sold on the civilian market within the USSR.
The military of the USSR and certain others would have had the best binoculars available, as well as other equipment. This may extend to the universities. It's a long time ago, over 60 years, so people young then would be old now, obviously, but they may remember a lot of what went on in those times regarding equipment.
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Brignole On the left forearm there are two watches
Without a doubt, it is something very strange. I have never seen anyone wearing two watches.
For what reason could I take two and not one as would be normal? twitch7
Is it really strange for someone to wear 2 watches!?
Yes, normally it is strange to wear two watches (maybe in case one breaks to have another or, as you have already mentioned, it could belong to one of his deceased companions). But I think that detail has little relevance in a case where there are many concerns, don't you think?
I would, in that case, use the word rare instead of strange. I was thinking, is this relevant, and after a while, I thought yes, why not? Any little detail may provide an avenue for further investigation.
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I’m not trying to overturn anything — just exploring how the small details might fit together. I appreciate your input; it helps keep the idea grounded and realistic.
It seems to me that the moment the clock hands indicate suggests that the hands were positioned downwards, under the influence of gravity.
They were able to descend, but the spring was unable to lift them back up.
Yes, 18:30 for Stalin and 17:30 for Dyatlov suggest that the hands were at the bottom of the dial.
If someone's arms was lying on their side, then it was 8:40. So, it's a moment, but it doesn't tell us anything.
Under the influence of gravity !? That needs some scientific elaboration.
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Hunter
A bearing is a chosen direction. You can do this by any means. Using a watch along with counting steps is an extremely basic method for estimating the distance you travel. You have no other means. He was found with two watches? And that is what we are talking about. How do you know they weren't taught to navigate in zero visibility. No one knows why the stopped. The point is to why he may have been wearing two watches.
Well, by many means. You don't need to be taught to navigate in zero visibility; a simple compass can do that. For the Dyatlov Group, just know which direction to head in.
Hence, a very simple compass. Maybe having 2 watches on was a mere personal thing, nothing untoward or strange or for any specific purpose.
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A bearing on 1079 could be ascertained by having an objective. That would be trees. Trees are downhill from the tent. Bearing problem solved. You might argue that the Yuri's climbed the cedar in order to get a visual after the darkness and weather cleared. That is another thread, I think.
But they would know where they were at any particular time, so why would it be necessary to have a bearing with reference to the trees in the forest?
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GlennM, landmarks work in good visibility. In poor visibility, you either stay put or follow a compass bearing. Judging by reports from those years, tourists weren't taught how to navigate in near-zero visibility.
If the weather had cleared, the group could have returned using the buttes as a guide.
Yes, but it doesn't matter if it's zero visibility or perfect visibility. The Dyatlov Group would know where they were at any particular time by virtue of using a compass and a map. If you are out at sea and you have no landmarks, you have a map [ chart ] and a compass. And therefore you can navigate.
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GlennM, landmarks work in good visibility. In poor visibility, you either stay put or follow a compass bearing. Judging by reports from those years, tourists weren't taught how to navigate in near-zero visibility.
If the weather had cleared, the group could have returned using the buttes as a guide.
A person in front of you is a land mark , a rock , a tree . Its like lining sights on a gun. You have a tree 200m away and some close , you aim along that bearing.
The tourists might not know where they are exactly plus they had to leave the tent . The tent could have been covered with snow drifts and the foot prints. How on earth would you find the tent again?.
Whats buttes?
As I said elsewhere in this. It doesn't matter if you have zero visibility or perfect visibility. You have a map and a compass, and therefore, the Dyatlov Group would know where they were at any particular time.
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GlennM, landmarks work in good visibility. In poor visibility, you either stay put or follow a compass bearing. Judging by reports from those years, tourists weren't taught how to navigate in near-zero visibility.
If the weather had cleared, the group could have returned using the buttes as a guide.
A person in front of you is a land mark , a rock , a tree . Its like lining sights on a gun. You have a tree 200m away and some close , you aim along that bearing.
The tourists might not know where they are exactly plus they had to leave the tent . The tent could have been covered with snow drifts and the foot prints. How on earth would you find the tent again?.
Whats buttes?
As I said elsewhere in this. It doesn't matter if you have zero visibility or perfect visibility. You have a map and a compass, and therefore, the Dyatlov Group would know where they were at any particular time.
Sarapuk
Thanks for the reply , i wonder if you could read all the posts in a thread first then reply in just a single post?. It makes it easier to read and follow.
First of all you seem to be getting confused about what their maps were and how good they were and secondly what getting lost actually means.
It seems they got lost locally in the forest and trails and when coming to the pass. They knew they were in the correct general area but not sure which direction was best. This seems to be referenced in the amusing photo of Zolo sitting with his hand in cheek while Igor is looking at a map.
It really depends on the detail of the map and the features and obstacles . If they were basically hand drawn and only highlighted hill peaks, valleys and rivers then caution would need to be taken in poor visibility. For example , when they stopped to erect the tent on 1079 , and if it was a white out , they may know where they are within 1-200 meters . Thats not being lost but it is a problem if you need accuracy and if you hear noises in the night , you may fear things as doubt enters the thoughts. 1079 is quite steep in areas. They may not know where they are in relation to its peak.
When they left the tent , and ignoring whatever reason that was , it may have been in the dark ,although dark if the sky is good then visibility can be quite good , they did not have maps when they left the tent but they could take a bearing from their compass and they would know which way the forest was.
Now , its not about not knowing where you are ,its about recognising they had to find buried treasure, the treasure being the tent and its contents. Leaving the tent for 1.5 km and returning to it the next day is no big deal, but only in ideal conditions . That is , if the tent wasn't covered in snow , it was clear weather on the return, it wasn't white out .
To time the distance you walk away from an exact location gives you something to work with when you need to find it again , especially when you have nothing else at your disposal. Its something i would do.
The OP was asking about the two watches and if there was any significance to the times of their stoppage. The reality remains that they may have been timing their activity when moving through the day . This would give them their speed travelled over a whole day so they know they are traveling at x/kph.
Sharing these responsibilities among the group would be sensible and part of delegating tasks to others. So that's one reason and another maybe to hand it to the next night duty person when its their shift .
That's as exciting as it gets. The two reasons above have been done in other hikes. It is i that suggest that the watches may have been used to time the decent in order that they have a time stamp to go back up the slope and narrow down their search area if the tent had been covered by snow. It would be essential to be able to find it quicker.
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For the past 10 years, I've developed a habit of camping in various geographical regions, especially during the winter months. Since I mostly spend my days fishing, exploring culture and nature, my camping gear is quite basic. I don't have a sleeping bag, so I wrap myself in blankets. Besides a small LED flashlight, I have no other lighting. I only know it's time to go inside when the last logs of a small fire start to die down. I haven't received any training on how to stay warm and insulated in a tent. I've learned everything through experience. For example, I've noticed that I get colder on nights when I wrap myself in a thick fur coat after putting on several layers of pants and sweaters. I've also experienced that I can sleep uninterrupted when I wear lighter, more comfortable clothes and snuggle under a blanket. Of course, I'm talking about conditions a few degrees below or above 0 degrees. I attribute most of these to being naked, as mentioned above, to body heat transfer and a warm sleep. However, I attribute the fact that Tibo and Semyon were dressed, and that Tibo had two watches on his wrist, to them being on night watch. One of the watches probably had a feature that provided an advantage during night watch in the tent. Apparently, six people were lying side by side, consuming the distributed food. Semyon and Tibo were sitting near the entrance of the tent, illuminating the inside with a lantern. Rustem, sitting right next to them, was busy taking off his shoes to join the sleeping group.
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I assume two watches are needed to keep track of the time if one stops.
I've never carried two watches, but I often carried two cell phones. This is so that if one phone runs out of battery, I can call from the other.
Before this, I'd found myself in a situation several times where my dual-SIM phone had little charge for a call, or no battery at all.
Therefore, I decided it was better to use two phones so I wouldn't have to worry too much about their charge levels.
The same situation could have happened with a watch. But we'll never know the exact cause in this case.
There are several explanations here, and none of them are surprising. What's surprising are the additional explanations you offer.
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As a whole, we are quite an intelligent bunch. What we look for are not the multiple " what if's" but rather the " this and nothing else". The only undisputed certainty is they died.
I am pleased that the two watch explanation works well with an evening exit from the tent. The evening exit works well with the boots and jackets off observation. That works well with cold induced superficial and major trauma injuries. Those injuries support the location where the remains were found. The locations support the idea that the weather changed over time. The watches remind us that when our time is up, its up.
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I'm pleased that the two watch explanation works well with Yuri's rolled-up left sleeve. If he took off his watch himself, he would have his sleeve buttoned up. Evening exit works well with Evening Otorten. And Evening Otorten works well with the overall scene.
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I assume two watches are needed to keep track of the time if one stops.
I've never carried two watches, but I often carried two cell phones. This is so that if one phone runs out of battery, I can call from the other.
Before this, I'd found myself in a situation several times where my dual-SIM phone had little charge for a call, or no battery at all.
Therefore, I decided it was better to use two phones so I wouldn't have to worry too much about their charge levels.
The same situation could have happened with a watch. But we'll never know the exact cause in this case.
There are several explanations here, and none of them are surprising. What's surprising are the additional explanations you offer.
Well, we probably won't know the exact cause unless more evidence comes to light. So there is bound to be plenty of speculation.
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As a whole, we are quite an intelligent bunch. What we look for are not the multiple " what if's" but rather the " this and nothing else". The only undisputed certainty is they died.
I am pleased that the two watch explanation works well with an evening exit from the tent. The evening exit works well with the boots and jackets off observation. That works well with cold induced superficial and major trauma injuries. Those injuries support the location where the remains were found. The locations support the idea that the weather changed over time. The watches remind us that when our time is up, its up.
The 2 watch speculation may or may not be relevant. Without more evidence, it's another part of the overall mystery.
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The point is that the two watches are evidence. Evidence of what? Some forum members get off the fence and put forward an idea. Other forum members stay on the fence and peck at the necks of those who had an idea. I said it before, only ten know what happened back then.
For me, if two watches agrees with state of undress and time of day, that is moving the needle toward truth. Nobody is going to produce the smoking gun and we all smack our foreheads and say Wow!