Dyatlov Pass Forum

Factual Information => Materials Modern => Publications / Media => Topic started by: Teddy on March 18, 2019, 12:46:05 PM

Title: Whose body is this?
Post by: Teddy on March 18, 2019, 12:46:05 PM
On 15 of March 2019 Russian channel 1 aired a show about the expedition to the Dyatlov Pass with the participation of journalists from Komsomolskaya Pravda, television, representatives of the prosecutor's office and experts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FE9iSlOpXh0

You can turn on the auto translation (https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/Dyatlov-pass-Malahov-screenshot-captions.png) for the captions in Russian, which are also automatic, but better than nothing.

The expedition is leaving for Dyatlov Pass few hours after the show, according to its host Andrey Malahov who is also going. There will be 3 groups:


Outline, participants in the show in the order of their appearance, and the theories they favor:

Andrey Skvortsov
Weather Forecast Meteorologist
1. Infrasound

He claims the raised footprints of the hikers are fake. As proof shows the Burmantovo weather report for February 1959. Skvortsov says that 10 days of snowfall and strong wind leaves slim chance for such footprints to be preserved the way that they are documented.

(https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/Dyatlov-pass-Malahov-screenshot-02-.jpg)

(https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/Dyatlov-pass-Malahov-screenshot-04-.jpg)

(https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/Dyatlov-pass-Malahov-screenshot-01-.jpg)
Weather report for Burmantovo for February 1959

Natalya Varsegova
Komsomolskaya Pravda

She says that Burmantovo is 100 km south of Kholat Syakhl, too far away for the weather report to be applied without any doubts. Also Dyatlov Pass is much higher.

(https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/Dyatlov-pass-Malahov-screenshot-03.jpg)

Vladimir Sungorkin
Chief Editor, Komsomolskaya Pravda, Expedition Leader

Andrey Kuryakov (insertion of a video from the press conference Feb 4th 2019)
Head of the Prosecutor’s Office of the Sverdlovsk Region

Kuryakov says that the most important moment for the development of the events of the night of 1-2nd of Feb 1959 is why the hikers fled the tent under these conditions.

(https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/Dyatlov-pass-Malahov-screenshot-05.jpg)

Aleksandr Mitroshenko
Producer, Expedition Leader
2. Experiments with the use of human enhancement technologies by the military to increase survival margins

Sergey Sogrin
Search party member in 1959

Yuri Yakimov
Researcher of Dyatlov Pass incident
3. UFO

Maksim Abakumov
Researcher of Dyatlov Pass incident
4. Ball lightning

Andrey Ponkratov
TV host, traveler

Bari Sayfutdinov
Public figure, Researcher of Dyatlov Pass incident
5. Wolverine

Evgeniy Buyanov
Writer, Researcher of Dyatlov Pass incident
6. Snow slab and wind

Yuri Kuntsevich
Chairman of Dyatlov group foundation
7. Conspiracy, government coverup, secret rocket launch gone bad, blast wave

Sergey Dolya
Traveler, TV host "Ren TV"

Vladimir Askinadzi
Search party member in 1959
8. Criminal

Vladimir Askinadzi swears that Colonel Ortyukov did grab a notebook from Zolotaryov's hands.

Eduard Tumanov
Court medical expert

The missing tongue and damaged facial tissue is characteristic of bodies being left in the open and result of encounter with wildlife e.g. rodents. They are left post morthem or else there would be blood in the airways and stomach.

Natalya Varsegova
Komsomolskaya Pravda

Zolotaryov said to his students in Lermonotovo that he is going on a trek in Northern Urals after which all the world will hear about him.

Aleksandr Mitroshenko
Producer, Expedition Leader

Mitroshenko lists the experts that will take part in the expedition - Forensic experts, Space experts, Expedition experts

Vladimir Askinadzi
Search party member in 1959

Askinadzi says that there are two Lev Ivanov persons - before and after he went to Moscow (for which btw we don't have any proof that he went to Moscow).

(https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/Dyatlov-Pass-Lev-Nikitich-Ivanov-2-.jpg)
Lev Nikitich Ivanov, lead investigator of Dyatlov case in 1959

Aleksandra Ivanova
Daugther of Lev Ivanov, lead investigator of Dyatlov group case in 1959

Aleksandra Ivanova says that Lev Ivanov was not summoned to Moscow, he was ordinary invetigator, it was enought to call him in the Regional Party Committee to tell him to close the case. So Lev Ivanov had to come up with a conclusion to close the case and this is what he could think of "overwhelming force, which the hikers were not able to overcome".

Valentina Titova
Actress
8. Criminal

Yulia Orehova
Zolotaryov grand-niece
7. Conspiracy, government coverup, secret rocket launch gone bad, blast wave

Victor Popovnin
Glaciologist
6. Snow slab

Aleksandr Hatskevich
Shaman
6. Snow slab

The sensation was when on 47:00 a photo from Lev Ivanov's archive was shown for first time of a frozen body that is not any known member of Dyatlov group. Or is it?

(https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/Dyatlov-pass-Malahov-screenshot-06-.jpg)


(https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/Dyatlov-pass-unknown-body-scratched.jpg)

(https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/Dyatlov-pass-unknown-body-.jpg)

Title: Re: Whose body is this?
Post by: Nigel Evans on March 19, 2019, 05:00:40 AM
"Zolotaryov said to his students in Lermonotovo that he is going on a trek in Northern Urals after which all the world will hear about him."
Because he would have photographed the lights?
They planned to camp up there from the outset.
Title: Re: Whose body is this?
Post by: Angel1 on March 19, 2019, 06:40:12 AM
I believe in the murder theory - they encountered someone - and I think the photo of this person correlates what a nurse said about 11 bodies vs 9.  If you look at the fists of Dyatlov and Zina, they are in a fighting position (thumb in).  Dyatlov did not die in a position of someone dying from hypothermia (fetal).  Raitkin may be onto something.  I wish his book was in English and better written.  From the translation, he does seem to go off on tangents. 

BTW, This person doesn't appear to be indigenous.

Re Zolotaryev's quote - difficult to confirm, eerie if true.  But why boast if you are doing something top secret, unless you plan to defect and not be here to suffer the consequences?  I think the camera with the film intentionally damaged was placed on him as a message from who ever did it to whomever set up this encounter. i.e. nice try....if it got out at the time it was Americans, Russian folk would have been calling for WW3.
Title: Re: Whose body is this?
Post by: Clacon on March 19, 2019, 09:45:12 AM
Who do you think the 11th person is then? When was that picture released?
Can we talk about this picture??!!!  explode1

Also so weird about what Zolotaryev said - have you read the bio on him on this website? So incredibly shady! Why did they exhume his body? The first DNA test wasn't a match and apparently his brother went missing?

I don't know - Ludya (?) didn't seem to trust him much and what about Igor relinquishing his leadership capacity to an older tourist guide?

Does anyone know if that quote is legit?


Title: Re: Whose body is this?
Post by: Teddy on March 19, 2019, 11:45:30 AM
As a follow up to the publication avid Dyatlov Pass incident researcher Dr. Galina Sazonova sent me the following information.

It might be of interest what I found in the archives of the prosecutor's office - other 1959 cases of Lev Ivanov.
Unfortunately, I didn’t make copies, I just rewrote the text.


21.12. 7\230

On the promotion of prosecutors of Sverdlovsk region
Forensic prosecutor of the Prosecutor's Office Sverdlovsk Ivanov L. N. and the investigator of the prosecutor's office of Zheleznodorozhniy district of Sverdlovsk, Ryzhenko P. F. relying on the help of the public, achieve positive results in solving crimes against the public and exposing the perpetrators.
Investigating the murder of student Ozhegov on May 28, 1959, Ivanov and Ryzhenko published information about the case in the newspaper Vecherniy Sverdlovsk, in order to identify the criminals, after which the crime prosecution began to receive reports to the prosecutor's office and the police.
With the help of this information, Ivanov and Ryzhenko established and exposed the murderers, Klepikov and Bushuev, who were subsequently convicted of committing the crime.

The public also helped Ivanov to solved the murder of Galya Pantileeva, whose body was found on Jan 16, 1959, on the ice of Shartash lake in Sverdlovsk. For a long time, this crime remained unsolved, and the identity of the victim was unidentified.
On Oct 6, 1959, Ivanov published a note "Who is this girl" in Ural Worker newspaper in which some details of the deceased were reported and appealed to citizens to help solve this crime. The very next day, the prosecutor's office and the police received information that Galya Panteleeva could have been a victim of a foul play and that Ionina could be involved in her death.
The investigation led by Ivanov resulted in conviction of Ionina for this murder, for which she was sentenced to a long term of imprisonment.
Ivanov practices publishing information for ongoing investigations and asking the public for help to solve them, systematically organizes the exchange of experience of the best investigators, periodically conducts educational and methodological activities, assists the investigators in solving crimes and applying scientific and technical methods from the forensic tool kits.
Giving him gratitude and presents.
Title: Re: Whose body is this?
Post by: sarapuk on March 19, 2019, 12:54:21 PM
Excellent. Clearly shows that Lev Ivanov was no fool. According to this information he was a very capable INVESTIGATOR. And the year is 1959.
Title: Re: Whose body is this?
Post by: sug2h on March 19, 2019, 09:52:23 PM
About the new picture:

(https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/Dyatlov-pass-unknown-body-.jpg)

I was wondering if it could be Aleksander Kolevatov. If we compare with the picture where we see him dead, laying on a body bag next to Zolotaryov, we can see that his mouth is open, just like in the new picture, his under shirt is tucked in his pants, his upper shirt is partially lifted, and if his arms would be moved, they could fit in the same position as in the new picture.
Title: Re: Whose body is this?
Post by: Vietnamka on March 19, 2019, 10:26:24 PM
Looks like we know all the Ivanov's cases in 1959. 3 of them happened during winter time.
1) Murder of Galya Panteleeva
2) Fire in the hostel
3) Dyatlov group.
This pic of "unknown body" logically can belongs to Dyatlov incindent only in 1959.
Title: Re: Whose body is this?
Post by: Teddy on March 19, 2019, 11:39:24 PM
Looks like we know all the Ivanov's cases in 1959. 3 of them happened during winter time.
1) Murder of Galya Panteleeva
2) Fire in the hostel
3) Dyatlov group.
This pic of "unknown body" logically can belongs to Dyatlov incident only in 1959.

Did Ozhegov die in the fire?
I am trying to match the previous post with this count of Ivanov's cases in 1959.
Title: Re: Whose body is this?
Post by: Vietnamka on March 20, 2019, 08:18:19 AM


Did Ozhegov die in the fire?
I am trying to match the previous post with this count of Ivanov's cases in 1959.
No, he was killed on May, 1959.
Title: Re: Whose body is this?
Post by: Clacon on March 20, 2019, 09:30:10 AM
I don't know about that picture - the clothing doesn't seem to match. In the pics in the ravine, the clothing looks to be a darker colour.

And I know the orientation of the head in the unknown corpse pic is at an angle away from us, but wouldn't we still be able to see more of a depression from the open eye socket?? Wasn't Kolevatov missing his eyesballs?
Title: Re: Whose body is this?
Post by: Ehtnisba on March 20, 2019, 02:47:13 PM
I don't know about that picture - the clothing doesn't seem to match. In the pics in the ravine, the clothing looks to be a darker colour.

And I know the orientation of the head in the unknown corpse pic is at an angle away from us, but wouldn't we still be able to see more of a depression from the open eye socket?? Wasn't Kolevatov missing his eyesballs?

According to the authopsy report Kolevatov had his eyeball present. BUT on the photo from ravine where we can see Zolotorayov and Kolevatov hugging him from the back ,it is very strange that his eye sockets seem empty and black,the same like Zolotaryov's ,and he is described with missing eyeballs in the report.
About this photo- yes, I see the same. The head of this body is looks like almost skull - open mouth and probably bare lower jaw (look how sharp is the chin, like only bone) , and empty eye (at least the one visible on the photo) , smashed nose or even just nose bone left without cartilages . But visible hand seems with flesh and not rotten as well as fullness of the body and legs is not one of just bones. So this is a body in the same state as ravine 4 ,but found in snow and when 1st five are found.
I was always thinking that ravine 4 are found in mutilated almost bare skulla state in February and were hidden under deep snow with the purpose to be found later and thus to explain their body states as natural decay. So in my theory this really could be Kolevatov found in February or unknown person not from the group with mutilated head and they just got rid off his body,because it was not needed for the official investigation to ne found. Then they cover the other badly damaged ones under the snow.
If this photo could prove something it would be that ravine 4 were found in Fenruary and were found without eyes and mutilated. Which I do not imply that means aliens and so. Like with cattle I do think that those mutilations are caused by some military experimental weapon. Why not laser weapon on so...
Title: Re: Whose body is this?
Post by: Vietnamka on March 20, 2019, 05:46:21 PM
I suppose too it can be Kolevatov.
Just one question- why did not inform his parents the body was found?
Title: Re: Whose body is this?
Post by: sug2h on March 20, 2019, 08:06:38 PM

About this photo- yes, I see the same. The head of this body is looks like almost skull - open mouth and probably bare lower jaw (look how sharp is the chin, like only bone) , and empty eye (at least the one visible on the photo) , smashed nose or even just nose bone left without cartilages . But visible hand seems with flesh and not rotten as well as fullness of the body and legs is not one of just bones. So this is a body in the same state as ravine 4 ,but found in snow and when 1st five are found.
I was always thinking that ravine 4 are found in mutilated almost bare skulla state in February and were hidden under deep snow with the purpose to be found later and thus to explain their body states as natural decay. So in my theory this really could be Kolevatov found in February or unknown person not from the group with mutilated head and they just got rid off his body,because it was not needed for the official investigation to ne found. Then they cover the other badly damaged ones under the snow.
Wow! what an interesting theory. It would answer one of my questions: why keep this picture secret until now? I really don't see what in the picture could be compromising.
Title: Re: Whose body is this?
Post by: Ehtnisba on March 21, 2019, 05:05:03 AM

About this photo- yes, I see the same. The head of this body is looks like almost skull - open mouth and probably bare lower jaw (look how sharp is the chin, like only bone) , and empty eye (at least the one visible on the photo) , smashed nose or even just nose bone left without cartilages . But visible hand seems with flesh and not rotten as well as fullness of the body and legs is not one of just bones. So this is a body in the same state as ravine 4 ,but found in snow and when 1st five are found.
I was always thinking that ravine 4 are found in mutilated almost bare skulla state in February and were hidden under deep snow with the purpose to be found later and thus to explain their body states as natural decay. So in my theory this really could be Kolevatov found in February or unknown person not from the group with mutilated head and they just got rid off his body,because it was not needed for the official investigation to ne found. Then they cover the other badly damaged ones under the snow.
Wow! what an interesting theory. It would answer one of my questions: why keep this picture secret until now? I really don't see what in the picture could be compromising.

This picture is disturbing in many ways, but the more I look at the blurred head's contours the more I see skull .... With flesh preserved on the body .. I will do a drawing on top of it and upload it ,to show you how I see the head ...
Title: Re: Whose body is this?
Post by: Ehtnisba on March 22, 2019, 09:43:58 AM
Hi everyone,
This will be my first topic here, because I still don't see any serious discussion going about the newly revealed unknown body.
So one user here in the forum suggested that this is Kolevatov and as I looked into details on big screen I think he could be right. Here are my photo comparisions and what I found out, also what is my theory about the whole case regarding ravine 4.

(https://i.ibb.co/TkWg46L/Untitled-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/t4LJqgX)

So what do you thing about the possibility of this body being Kolevatov?
And what do you think about this theory:
I have always questioned the state of decay of ravine 4 . Spent a lot of hours researching through internet about body decomposition in cold water, in cold climate, in normal climate,,, watched about body ferms, avalnche victims, hypothermia vicitms, also how the dead bodies on Everest look like . And nowhere I found proof that for just 10-20 days in running COLD water a body could be so decomposed and not the whle body but ONLY the head. Pay attention on the gruesome photos of Luda and Zolotaryov.s post mortem photos - their bodies have suffered only maceration of the skin, nowhere exposed bones, even fingers have flesh on them.... But the heads???? ALmost bare skulls .... Also I read that eyeballs are actually very hard to decompose, they just shrink or go deeper into eye sockets , but not disappear first from the head. So I have always thinking that the ravine 4 were in the sae mutilated state BEFORE freezing. And they were hidden in the ravine under meters of snow on purpose - to avoid their finding by the searchers and then after snow thaws to explain their state with natural decay and close the case.
Is this body could be proved to be Kolevatov or even a strager with suck badly damaged head found obviously in February this will prove that ravine 4 head injuries are not natural decay and that they were hidden there . Also I think now after assuming this possibility , that the secret behind Dyatlov case is such an important mind shaking thing that even today 60 years after people who know something are threatened to be silent and are afraid to talk or show evidences. For example this body was scrathed from the photos not by authorities but from the people from Dyatlov foundation themselves :O What could be the reason for them doing this ? Aren't they the ones who want the truth to be exposed ? DOes something/someone scared them so much that they scratched it because they had no other options?  I will admit that after long time of supporting the murder by humans theory, now with thinking about that damaged heads with no eyes , with all my logical and down to earth thinking, I am really starting to believe that Dyatlov group had suffered from unknown to humanity weapon or if human weapon so powerful and secret that if the world knows about its exsistance terrible things could happen with the use of it . I know I am going into fantasies but that is pure logic ,,,, and all other theories about human murder and natural causes have flaws .... So after rejecting all the possibilities, what's left, no matter how unprobable it is , is the truth - as Sherlock said :)

Oh one more very important question - on two photos is clearly visible that Kolevatov has no eyeballs too , but in the authopsy report is written that his eyeballs are present and only eyebrows are missing. What do you think ?

(https://i.ibb.co/DgXH2DR/Kolevatov-Zolotaryov-Thibeaux-Brignolle-post-mortem-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/KzZpvjr)
Title: Re: Whose body is this?
Post by: Teddy on March 22, 2019, 09:52:28 AM
This belongs here, no need for new topic. This whole topic is about the new body. I changed the subject to "Whose body is this?". Your's is kind of long but you can keep using it.

About the photograph being scratched by Dyatlov Foundation

(https://i.ibb.co/cFhv39X/Hanlons-razor.jpg)

If they want to hide the photo, why would they even publish it? They scratched the digital scan only, you can see that they showed it to the prosecutors so people don't speculate about this body, exactly what we do right here. They showed it so the prosecutors can dig into other cases Ivanov had to see if there were any other groups dead in the mountain, which will explain the testimony of the senile nurse from Ivdel (https://dyatlovpass.com/interview-solter?rbid=18461). Because she says things that are impossible, she washed the bodies, she did it at night, none of this is true. Autopsies were performed in daylight starting with undressing the corpses.

I disagree that if the unknown body is Kolevatov they could have hidden him together with the other three and in the course of the two months Kolevatov "embraces" Zolotaryov the way they were found. The unknown body is obviously frozen, you can't stage his hands. So you think somebody killed them, photographed them, hid them, kept the photos and gave them to Kuntsevitch to scratch out?
Title: Re: Whose body is this?
Post by: Teddy on March 22, 2019, 12:19:22 PM
I can add more about the Dyatlov Foundation behavior. You need to know the old generation Soviet Union type of psyche. They need to be respected and taken seriously, they play their part, Kuntsevitch goes every winter to Dyatlov Pass, who else can say that? But then they are stuck to the rocket theory, annual conferences and playing songs about the hiking in the mountains. There is no explanation why they do this or that. There is no straight line of politics. They want to show that they are in a possession of a photo that we can't see. They will show it when they see fit. When there are no other news. It is all PR. The illustration of their psyche are all these portraits of the dead hikers which I can't bear to look at, they are so unnatural. Who can be taken seriously reading poetry and singing songs surrounded by naive portraits of Dyatlov group? Look at this, do you think these people thought it through when they showed a scratched photo?

(https://i.ibb.co/6HLfR06/Foundation.jpg)

https://youtu.be/sHxJZg0omH4?t=2025

Title: Re: Whose body is this?
Post by: sarapuk on March 22, 2019, 02:20:57 PM
"Zolotaryov said to his students in Lermonotovo that he is going on a trek in Northern Urals after which all the world will hear about him."
Because he would have photographed the lights?
They planned to camp up there from the outset.

Where does it state that Zolotaryov said those words ?
Title: Re: Whose body is this?
Post by: sarapuk on March 22, 2019, 02:36:48 PM
Hi everyone,
This will be my first topic here, because I still don't see any serious discussion going about the newly revealed unknown body.
So one user here in the forum suggested that this is Kolevatov and as I looked into details on big screen I think he could be right. Here are my photo comparisions and what I found out, also what is my theory about the whole case regarding ravine 4.

(https://i.ibb.co/TkWg46L/Untitled-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/t4LJqgX)

So what do you thing about the possibility of this body being Kolevatov?
And what do you think about this theory:
I have always questioned the state of decay of ravine 4 . Spent a lot of hours researching through internet about body decomposition in cold water, in cold climate, in normal climate,,, watched about body ferms, avalnche victims, hypothermia vicitms, also how the dead bodies on Everest look like . And nowhere I found proof that for just 10-20 days in running COLD water a body could be so decomposed and not the whle body but ONLY the head. Pay attention on the gruesome photos of Luda and Zolotaryov.s post mortem photos - their bodies have suffered only maceration of the skin, nowhere exposed bones, even fingers have flesh on them.... But the heads???? ALmost bare skulls .... Also I read that eyeballs are actually very hard to decompose, they just shrink or go deeper into eye sockets , but not disappear first from the head. So I have always thinking that the ravine 4 were in the sae mutilated state BEFORE freezing. And they were hidden in the ravine under meters of snow on purpose - to avoid their finding by the searchers and then after snow thaws to explain their state with natural decay and close the case.
Is this body could be proved to be Kolevatov or even a strager with suck badly damaged head found obviously in February this will prove that ravine 4 head injuries are not natural decay and that they were hidden there . Also I think now after assuming this possibility , that the secret behind Dyatlov case is such an important mind shaking thing that even today 60 years after people who know something are threatened to be silent and are afraid to talk or show evidences. For example this body was scrathed from the photos not by authorities but from the people from Dyatlov foundation themselves :O What could be the reason for them doing this ? Aren't they the ones who want the truth to be exposed ? DOes something/someone scared them so much that they scratched it because they had no other options?  I will admit that after long time of supporting the murder by humans theory, now with thinking about that damaged heads with no eyes , with all my logical and down to earth thinking, I am really starting to believe that Dyatlov group had suffered from unknown to humanity weapon or if human weapon so powerful and secret that if the world knows about its exsistance terrible things could happen with the use of it . I know I am going into fantasies but that is pure logic ,,,, and all other theories about human murder and natural causes have flaws .... So after rejecting all the possibilities, what's left, no matter how unprobable it is , is the truth - as Sherlock said :)

Oh one more very important question - on two photos is clearly visible that Kolevatov has no eyeballs too , but in the authopsy report is written that his eyeballs are present and only eyebrows are missing. What do you think ?

(https://i.ibb.co/DgXH2DR/Kolevatov-Zolotaryov-Thibeaux-Brignolle-post-mortem-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/KzZpvjr)

Good information. I definitely doubt all the DECOMPOSITION THEORIES.  As you suggest, why only a small part of the body is affected. If the factors that enabled decomposition to take place had been present then there should have been much more body decay, and there wasnt. And decomposition is a corner stone for many of the theories in this Dyatlov Mystery. Meaning serious doubt must be on many of the theories.
Title: Re: Whose body is this?
Post by: Teddy on March 22, 2019, 02:59:50 PM
"Zolotaryov said to his students in Lermonotovo that he is going on a trek in Northern Urals after which all the world will hear about him."
Because he would have photographed the lights?
They planned to camp up there from the outset.

Where does it state that Zolotaryov said those words ?

From the TV show 41:55, Natalya Varsegova - this is Komsomolskaya Pravda interview.
Zolotaryov had never said anything about lights.
https://youtu.be/FE9iSlOpXh0?t=2515
Title: Re: Whose body is this?
Post by: WAB on March 22, 2019, 03:13:52 PM
I can add more about the Dyatlov Foundation behavior. You need to know the old generation Soviet Union type of psyche. They need to be respected and taken seriously, they play their part, Kuntsevitch goes every winter to Dyatlov Pass, who else can say that?

About "say" I cannot to make comments, and about that “Kuntsevich goes every winter to Dyatlov pass “ (c) I can tell that only 1 time in 2013 Kuntsevich was on pass when there by the helicopter the newspaper command «Komsomolskaya Pravda» arrived in the winter and with them Kuntsevich has arrived.
It only we with Shura (Alexander Alekseenkov) go there in the winter. But not every year, and when it turns out. Including March of this year would be there on 5 times, and 4 of them - in common. But we does not concern fund, UPI and Ekaterinburg.
Kuntsevich goes there in the summer, but it reminds religious Hajj with worship on type Hajj to Mecca more. Since 2012 such exits have not given almost any new research result. Except for those two times when in the summer with Kuntsevich, Shura and Timur Voskoboynikov went.
In the rest it is gallery play of the newspaper and television.

But then they are stuck to the rocket theory, annual conferences and playing songs about the hiking in the mountains.

The rockets theme very sick in Ekaterinburg. When with whom that of veterans you tell in detail and in details you assort all that spoke, everyone agrees with serious arguments against “the rocket version”. But after while all begins on new though no new information “pro”, has appeared.
Annual conferences it is information interchange in the to circle of contacts. This forum is adjusted on same too. Therefore it not occasion, what it condemn. As is to songs and other actions of fund of it do not practise on conferences. It is that separate and does not concern fund.


There is no explanation why they do this or that. There is no straight line of politics. They want to show that they are in a possession of a photo that we can't see. They will show it when they see fit. When there are no other news. It is all PR. The illustration of their psyche are all these portraits of the dead hikers which I can't bear to look at, they are so unnatural. Who can be taken seriously reading poetry and singing songs surrounded by naive portraits of Dyatlov group? Look at this, do you think these people thought it through when they showed a scratched photo?

(https://i.ibb.co/6HLfR06/Foundation.jpg)

https://youtu.be/sHxJZg0omH4?t=2025

Now I want tell about “scratch photos”. In films which the fund has received from Ivanov's daughter of this photo is not present. Who and what for has placed it on what that of forums I could not learn yet. Those who is engaged in archive in fund about it do not know. Anyway, they to me so have told. Most likely who that has placed it in one of other forums in Ekaterinburg (there forums which condemned case of Dyatlov group was not less than 10), and then it has gone to other places of discussion. Before accuse fund of its "concealment" it is necessary to establish precisely, who when and what for it for the first time has laid out. It quite could be the photo from album, for example, Korotayev. In Ekaterinburg it this information moves uncontrolledly and vaguely.
Title: Re: Whose body is this?
Post by: Ehtnisba on March 22, 2019, 05:31:11 PM
This belongs here, no need for new topic. This whole topic is about the new body. I changed the subject to "Whose body is this?". Your's is kind of long but you can keep using it.

About the photograph being scratched by Dyatlov Foundation

(https://i.ibb.co/cFhv39X/Hanlons-razor.jpg)

If they want to hide the photo, why would they even publish it? They scratched the digital scan only, you can see that they showed it to the prosecutors so people don't speculate about this body, exactly what we do right here. They showed it so the prosecutors can dig into other cases Ivanov had to see if there were any other groups dead in the mountain, which will explain the testimony of the senile nurse from Ivdel (https://dyatlovpass.com/interview-solter?rbid=18461). Because she says things that are impossible, she washed the bodies, she did it at night, none of this is true. Autopsies were performed in daylight starting with undressing the corpses.

I disagree that if the unknown body is Kolevatov they could have hidden him together with the other three and in the course of the two months Kolevatov "embraces" Zolotaryov the way they were found. The unknown body is obviously frozen, you can't stage his hands. So you think somebody killed them, photographed them, hid them, kept the photos and gave them to Kuntsevitch to scratch out?


No :)
What I think is this:
Incident happen. People of.power know it happened way earlier before anybody else (hence the date 6.II on case file). I can't assume what the incident was ,murder,or weapon or else. But it was something that if people knew about would threaten national security or will expose important information to other countries or will just weaken the belief in communist party.
All bodies are found together , all 9 . They were photographed for the secret investigation - the one before official one.
Two Yuris, Zina, Dyatlov, Rustem don't have very suspicious injuries and their bodies are only searched (there is evidence bodies of Yuris and Dyatlov were turned post mortem) and left where they are found.
But four bodies have gruesome injuries ,especially to theirs head tissues. Missing eyeballs, flesh missing, maybe heads looked burned or like from explosion where eyes burst. So these are the suspicious bodies and they decide to hide them all together under deep snow. Deeper than avalanche probes are, so nobody finds them until spring . They hope that with the thaw they will decay and their head injuries will be ruled as decomposition.
Kolevatov was hugging Zolotaryov cause they were placed together ,even Luda was in line next to Nikolai,but the stream moved her body. They placed them all like this so who finds them think they were warming each other in the den and den collapsed and killed them. The den never existed.
Somehow this photo of Kolevatov appears from the hidden real case files. Someone took it and gave it to Dyatlov fund, and he was scared to be exposed so he gave them the photo and asked them to be for their use and not to show it to public until the time is right. Probably the person who gave them the photo is dead already cause he was old  so now they can reveal it, without risk for their source.
And yes poetry and portraits and stuff are funny , art and conception of art and all is very different for people out of west europe. This doesn't prove that they are stupid or else. Just that they have different culture. It is very logical to think of technogenic military incident. It is very logical if such happened to be consealed from public and to be staged. Such things are happening today everywhere in the world. Inconvenient truths that threaten the ruling statuquo are being hidden from public. Many are exposed with investigative journalism and others, but also many remain hidden forever. So I can't see anything stupid or strange in Kunysevich version about staging and military weapon involved and if this is Kolevatov with damaged head tissues in February as found ,this prove the staging of ravine 4.
I ,like Sarapuk , have always questioned their "decay" from the first time I saw their post mortem photos and autopsy reports.
Title: Re: Whose body is this?
Post by: Teddy on March 22, 2019, 07:48:00 PM
In this scenario at what point did they put Dubinina's hat and coat on Zolotaryov? Why redress the corpses before hiding them?

About the Dyatlov Foundation, I don't mean disrespect. We have a proverb in Bulgarian that translates to - Who sings evil does not think, or something like that, but I mean that you should think of malicious intends.
Title: Re: Whose body is this?
Post by: Vietnamka on March 22, 2019, 09:19:13 PM
In this scenario at what point did they put Dubinina's hat and coat on Zolotaryov? Why redress the corpses before hiding them?


Luda's hat and coat on Tibo, not Zolotarev. Ivanov made mistakes.
Title: Re: Whose body is this?
Post by: Ehtnisba on March 23, 2019, 05:05:08 AM
In this scenario at what point did they put Dubinina's hat and coat on Zolotaryov? Why redress the corpses before hiding them?

About the Dyatlov Foundation, I don't mean disrespect. We have a proverb in Bulgarian that translates to - Who sings evil does not think, or something like that, but I mean that you should think of malicious intends.

Maybe the time line of deaths is right : last to die the ravine 4, they themselves took clothes from Yuris , Dubinina dies of pierced heart ,other 3 take clothes from her, then die with gruesome injuries too. The official didn't swap clothes, they found them like this and hidden them like this , the way they were found ,by only searching through their pockets .

I am not convinced in any theory   I just express the way I think of possibilities.
Title: Re: Whose body is this?
Post by: User45 on March 23, 2019, 06:03:24 AM
Hello,

What are your theory's on the new body being publicized to the Dyatlov Group Foundation given by relatives of Ivanov?

- Could this picture belong to another case investigated by Ivanov? What other cases did Ivanov have during 1958 - 1959 that could be related to a dead person being found in snow environment?

- Speculation being made that it is actually the body of Aleksander Kolevatov? If this is the case then this will mean that the body was not firstly discovered alongisde Zolotaryov, but perhaps with the first discovery in February. This will also mean that the body allegedly did not undergo the decomposition under thawing spring but instead the strange injuries e.g. missing eye? happened before the discovery of Rav. 4 in May. What similiarties do you see with the body (2019) and that of Aleksander Kolevatov?

(https://i.ibb.co/Hty3Szq/Dyatlov-pass-unknown-body.jpg) (https://ibb.co/9b0SDTW)
Title: Re: Whose body is this?
Post by: Teddy on March 23, 2019, 10:54:53 AM
In this scenario at what point did they put Dubinina's hat and coat on Zolotaryov? Why redress the corpses before hiding them?
Luda's hat and coat on Tibo, not Zolotarev. Ivanov made mistakes.

Galina just turn my whole world upside down. She is going to send me a file about other mistakes Ivanov made.
Title: Re: Whose body is this?
Post by: Ehtnisba on March 23, 2019, 11:28:15 AM
Hello,

What are your theory's on the new body being publicized to the Dyatlov Group Foundation given by relatives of Ivanov?

- Could this picture belong to another case investigated by Ivanov? What other cases did Ivanov have during 1958 - 1959 that could be related to a dead person being found in snow environment?

- Speculation being made that it is actually the body of Aleksander Kolevatov? If this is the case then this will mean that the body was not firstly discovered alongisde Zolotaryov, but perhaps with the first discovery in February. This will also mean that the body allegedly did not undergo the decomposition under thawing spring but instead the strange injuries e.g. missing eye? happened before the discovery of Rav. 4 in May. What similiarties do you see with the body (2019) and that of Aleksander Kolevatov?


you can see my photos comparison here in this thread above your post and see for yourself what do you think of the similarities with Kolevatov - In my opinion the probality is high. And I am thinking exactly the same,,, injuries are not decomposition, but were like this in February . That's why the ravine 4 were hidden in the ravine .
Title: Re: Whose body is this?
Post by: User45 on March 23, 2019, 11:47:25 AM
Hello,

What are your theory's on the new body being publicized to the Dyatlov Group Foundation given by relatives of Ivanov?

- Could this picture belong to another case investigated by Ivanov? What other cases did Ivanov have during 1958 - 1959 that could be related to a dead person being found in snow environment?

- Speculation being made that it is actually the body of Aleksander Kolevatov? If this is the case then this will mean that the body was not firstly discovered alongisde Zolotaryov, but perhaps with the first discovery in February. This will also mean that the body allegedly did not undergo the decomposition under thawing spring but instead the strange injuries e.g. missing eye? happened before the discovery of Rav. 4 in May. What similiarties do you see with the body (2019) and that of Aleksander Kolevatov?


you can see my photos comparison here in this thread above your post and see for yourself what do you think of the similarities with Kolevatov - In my opinion the probality is high. And I am thinking exactly the same,,, injuries are not decomposition, but were like this in February . That's why the ravine 4 were hidden in the ravine .

If the bodies would have been found BEFORE the allegedly discovery of Rav.4, so to say February, Interview including former nurse Pelageya Ivanovna Solter:

'' NAVIG: And here you write that there were two girls and one guy ... So were there two girls?
PI: One girl was found with the guys, and the second girl was found after 2 or 3 days.
NAVIG: Or a month?
VK: Month! No, I said "two days"?
NAVIG: Months or a days? This is very important.
PI: Month ... no.
NAVIG: No? And they were found in early May, and those at the end of February. So were they brought all together or at different times?
PI: One girl was found right away, and the second girl was found later. ''

If the bodies were found in February and later staged, this would also explain why the research group would have found the supposedly den so preciclely, because they already knew.

The question remains, if this would have been a cover up of some sort, first of;

- Why? Is it because the state was indirectly involved in the death these young hikers? (Do not bring UFO's and Yeti's to question this is just complete nonsense. The young hikers deserve more respect than this)
- If it would have been a cover up, especially in the time of USSR and KGB, why is there even a possibility of an investigation? How did not everything just got wiped down on the slope for no one ever to be investigated again?
Title: Re: Whose body is this?
Post by: User45 on March 23, 2019, 12:22:03 PM
Hello,

What are your theory's on the new body being publicized to the Dyatlov Group Foundation given by relatives of Ivanov?

- Could this picture belong to another case investigated by Ivanov? What other cases did Ivanov have during 1958 - 1959 that could be related to a dead person being found in snow environment?

- Speculation being made that it is actually the body of Aleksander Kolevatov? If this is the case then this will mean that the body was not firstly discovered alongisde Zolotaryov, but perhaps with the first discovery in February. This will also mean that the body allegedly did not undergo the decomposition under thawing spring but instead the strange injuries e.g. missing eye? happened before the discovery of Rav. 4 in May. What similiarties do you see with the body (2019) and that of Aleksander Kolevatov?


you can see my photos comparison here in this thread above your post and see for yourself what do you think of the similarities with Kolevatov - In my opinion the probality is high. And I am thinking exactly the same,,, injuries are not decomposition, but were like this in February . That's why the ravine 4 were hidden in the ravine .

And if this new body can be linked with Aleksander Kolevatov with convincingly evidence, then don't you think this will be one of the largest findings so far? I mean that would scream gov. cover up all over the place.
Title: Re: Whose body is this?
Post by: Nordlander on March 23, 2019, 05:30:21 PM
I agree with User45 that the publication of the photo of the unknown body could lead to a re-interpretation of the tragedy.

At first I thought the body couldn't be Alexander K's, but in part that's because I mistook the black body bag for his clothes. I think the striped shirt he's wearing in the frozen photo looks lighter just because of the snow crusted on it. The comparison photos people have posted have been really useful.

So here are what I think the repercussions of the new photo are, if it is indeed of Sasha K. I had always suspected the bodies in the creek had been laid there by the killers while the hikers were dead or dying. It's an old criminal trick to put bodies in water, especially flowing water, to disguise identities and to obscure clues--the Mafia, some gangs, and some serial killers of the "organized" modus operandi to it. (I'm a professor at a college of criminal justice, and although I'm not in law enforcement, I consult with with my colleagues). But you know who else does it? Police, the military, and intelligence--in short, people who work around criminals.

 If Alexander K appears in the photo, it suggests that he was found in February and that the "II" in the case files wasn't an error. The authorities found them, with disfigured faces and eyes and tongue gouged out, and were told to cover up these injuries. They laid them in the stream bed, and when the stream started flowing more heavily, Alex K's arms shifted slightly. (I also think Semyon's camera was wrapped around his wrist, and that those covering up the scene might not have found it when they moved him since it was hanging inside his cuff). The pose he is in here suggests his wrists may have been bound. The others may have been dead in the snow den--it looks like a standard WWII-era snow shelter of the kind that was still taught in survival classes when I was a kid--or elsewhere.

Can anyone with a better visual sense match the background in the new photo with settings in the other shots? It resembles the area around the cedar to me, but snow and evergreen branches all start to look the same. And the question, of course, is who or what defaces people, gouging out their eyes and removing a tongue. The KGB or the military wouldn't knowingly and ritualistically disfigure the flower of Communist youth, with their technical knowledge and service to the state, so I think we would have to look elsewhere.
Title: Re: Whose body is this?
Post by: Loose}{Cannon on March 23, 2019, 07:16:16 PM
"Zolotaryov said to his students in Lermonotovo that he is going on a trek in Northern Urals after which all the world will hear about him."
Because he would have photographed the lights?
They planned to camp up there from the outset.

Likely because he will be level 3 certified which will open the door for him career wise. 
Title: Re: Whose body is this?
Post by: Loose}{Cannon on March 23, 2019, 07:36:00 PM
I don't see any connection of the 'new' body to the DP group.   This is obviously a victim in another case Ivanov had.


Quote
Ivanov made mistakes

I have been saying he was incompetent for years.   
Title: Re: Whose body is this?
Post by: User45 on March 24, 2019, 05:35:48 AM
I don't see any connection of the 'new' body to the DP group.   This is obviously a victim in another case Ivanov had.


Quote
Ivanov made mistakes

I have been saying he was incompetent for years.

Hello,

But what other cases could possibly linked with this picture where a decaying corpse is found in a snow environment? Looking at the depth of snow I would say this was somewhere during December - late February. Do we possibly have any information about Ivanov's case files during the period of 1958 - 1960? This would contibure a lot.

Thanks for answering!
Title: Re: Whose body is this?
Post by: Loose}{Cannon on March 24, 2019, 06:08:47 AM
Heck, it could have been from a case years after.....  Most of Russia is a frozen tundra most of the year..
Title: Re: Whose body is this?
Post by: User45 on March 24, 2019, 06:26:53 AM
Though, I would also like to counterfeit on the possibility of this being Aleksander Kolevatov.

- The hands are bent and with tight fists. How uncommon is this for people that have spent their last seconds of their lifes in a sub zero environment, stiffness, rigor mortis? This could be anyone that died in a snow environment and showing relatable anotomy of one dying in these conditions.

- Mouth open = last breath how uncommon is this after death?

- How unusual is it that both have belts?

- Missing eyes, so are we sure to tell that the blurred picture is a skull with a missing eye?

- Missing tip of the nose, debatable, I personally can't convincingly see it.

- Curly hair, did Aleksander Kolevatov have curly hair post mortem?

Please correct me if I am wrong on some points.

But then again, if we can know if this picture is not related to any other criminal cases Ivanov was investigating then yes, there is a high possibility of this being from the DP group. I mean, the environment looks astonishing the same.

(https://i.ibb.co/MPb2ZGB/Untitled-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/CVq1mMP)
Title: Re: Whose body is this?
Post by: User45 on March 24, 2019, 06:28:09 AM
Heck, it could have been from a case years after.....  Most of Russia is a frozen tundra most of the year..

That is true and I absolutely agree with this. But still if we can somehow get all the criminal cases Ivanov was investigating then we can also rule the possibility out.

Maybe I am asking something totally impossible? I am not sure if this information can even be shared to 3rd party?
Title: Re: Whose body is this?
Post by: Loose}{Cannon on March 24, 2019, 06:33:35 AM
The 'environment' looks the same?    All I see is a grainy black/white photo of a body laying on......  snow. 

If a body laying in snow can be attributed to the DP case on that basis alone......   oh boy.  nose1
Title: Re: Whose body is this?
Post by: User45 on March 24, 2019, 06:45:11 AM
The 'environment' looks the same?    All I see is a grainy black/white photo of a body laying on......  snow. 

If a body laying in snow can be attributed to the DP case on that basis alone......   oh boy.  nose1

With this I mean that it looks to be somewhere where vegetation is possible as you can see the bushes? sticking out of the snow. And the depth of the snow looks to be around December - February. Of course this is not convincingly clues or evidence.

You are right it is not 'astonishing' the same. And I realise that in Russia there is a lot of tundra and snowfall so it is very possible that this is not Aleksander Kolevatov.
Title: Re: Whose body is this?
Post by: Loose}{Cannon on March 24, 2019, 07:11:29 AM
Could be in someones backyard for all we know.   Literally everyone I know wears a belt, and why the white pants?
Title: Re: Whose body is this?
Post by: Ehtnisba on March 24, 2019, 09:19:17 AM
Doesn't look as a backyard. And mouth is not just open, it is skull bone, cheeks missing. See how deep is the opening almost to the ears. Chin is also bone like. As an artist I have studied anatomy and have seen a lot of skulls. Can recognise a skull from only a silhouette. And believe this head is either or anorexic / dying of malnutrition person or decomposed almost to skull. But we can rule out malnutrition cause body looks well fit. No matter if this is Kolevatov or not  , this body has the strange combination of decomposed /dried/damaged head and intact full looking body. If it is from another case ,this could mean that there were more such occasions and ravine 4 are not an isolated case.
From Teddy's post about other cases of Ivanov she wrote about case of murdered man and woman both in the city and both solved. This body is not of a woman, nor of a murdered man in city...
Title: Re: Whose body is this?
Post by: Loose}{Cannon on March 24, 2019, 09:53:19 AM
Heck, this could have been from a different investigators case and Ivanov was simply interested or trying to assist in said case.

There are 400+ possibilities
Title: Re: Whose body is this?
Post by: Puchiko on March 24, 2019, 02:08:03 PM
Heck, this could have been from a different investigators case and Ivanov was simply interested or trying to assist in said case.

There are 400+ possibilities

Agreed. This is a photo that has just been published sixty years after the incident. There's nothing even resembling the chain of evidence, it could be literally anything, from anywhere. Just like there's a lot of wrong info about the incident online in writing, we shouldn't trust an old photo just because it turned up. Even if we accept that it was in Ivanov's possession (and we haven't even got proof of that), it could be anything...
Title: Re: Whose body is this?
Post by: Nordlander on March 24, 2019, 07:09:08 PM
Well, we can presume it's not one of Ivanov's other cases from 1959 for reasons already mentioned. As for its being from an unrelated case, I'm not so sure. First of all, it's from someone from the same demographic as the Dyatlov group: young, physically fit European male not properly dressed for the elements and wearing some of the same under-clothing the others wore: what's described in the coroner's report as a "cowboy shirt." It's also someone who looks to have frozen to death but isn't in the usual position of those who die of hypothermia, the fetal position. Instead the person looks like his hands have been bound and perhaps his feet. Then it is someone whose upper face has been carved out around the sockets, his nose removed, and the jaw broken while the body remains intact.

I'm from a part of the world that has a similar climate to the Urals. Number of people who die like this during the winter every year: 0. This past year, because of the polar vortex, there was one young man who got locked out of his apartment and wasn't properly dressed, just like this unknown person. But he was found in a fetal position. We DO see young men who are drunk, leave a bar, go down to the water to urinate, and then fall in and freeze. I doubt people in Russia went around like they were dressed for Miami in the winter.

That being said, I agree we need a pathologist to weigh in on the usual postions of those who freeze to death. And the issue that continues to trouble me about identifying this body as Alex Z's is that he is wearing a coat in the ravine (it's the one that had radioactivity on it). I am pretty sure that is just a Country and Western shirt in the photo even though it appears lighter because of the snow. I can't see the collar and opening of a coat here. Can anyone else see a second garment? And it is pretty difficult to re-dress a corpse. Plus it begs the question of why someone would do that.
Title: Re: Whose body is this?
Post by: Vietnamka on March 26, 2019, 10:38:34 PM
Nordlander
We have  to push PO to check all the Ivanov's cases at all, looking for similar.
Title: Re: Whose body is this?
Post by: Ehtnisba on March 27, 2019, 05:43:23 AM
Well, we can presume it's not one of Ivanov's other cases from 1959 for reasons already mentioned. As for its being from an unrelated case, I'm not so sure. First of all, it's from someone from the same demographic as the Dyatlov group: young, physically fit European male not properly dressed for the elements and wearing some of the same under-clothing the others wore: what's described in the coroner's report as a "cowboy shirt." It's also someone who looks to have frozen to death but isn't in the usual position of those who die of hypothermia, the fetal position. Instead the person looks like his hands have been bound and perhaps his feet. Then it is someone whose upper face has been carved out around the sockets, his nose removed, and the jaw broken while the body remains intact.

I'm from a part of the world that has a similar climate to the Urals. Number of people who die like this during the winter every year: 0. This past year, because of the polar vortex, there was one young man who got locked out of his apartment and wasn't properly dressed, just like this unknown person. But he was found in a fetal position. We DO see young men who are drunk, leave a bar, go down to the water to urinate, and then fall in and freeze. I doubt people in Russia went around like they were dressed for Miami in the winter.

That being said, I agree we need a pathologist to weigh in on the usual postions of those who freeze to death. And the issue that continues to trouble me about identifying this body as Alex Z's is that he is wearing a coat in the ravine (it's the one that had radioactivity on it). I am pretty sure that is just a Country and Western shirt in the photo even though it appears lighter because of the snow. I can't see the collar and opening of a coat here. Can anyone else see a second garment? And it is pretty difficult to re-dress a corpse. Plus it begs the question of why someone would do that.

That's what I am trying to say according to plain logic. What are the odds of finding an undressed body in stretched position and no eyes in another case? Damn Russians going naked in the forest and fighting with star wars swords piercing through their eyes..   twitch7

About Kolevatov , yes he has a jacket in the ravine. That is the only detail that does not match. Unzipped jacket is easy to be put on stiff corpse as the hands are not bent so much. But again even if this is not Kolevatov ,yes, this body definetely has all the signs of being met by the same death as Dyatlov group ,which means this person has been with the group, or as I said must be common in Russia people to die in forests undressed with no eyes .... By the way Dyatlov has died in the same position like his hands and legs were tied. What do you think of murder by humans, who used acid on last 4 spilled on their faces?
Title: Re: Whose body is this?
Post by: Nordlander on March 27, 2019, 07:35:40 PM
Yes, Russians typically know how to dress in the extreme cold. It's their thing, or at least one of them. This person, if he's not from the Dyatlov group, would likely have to be from the same incident, but I have a hard time imagining their adversaries as clean-cut student types in crisp cowboy shirts (worn by the middle classes for outdoor activities) like this guy seems to be.

You know, I hadn't ever thought about acid, having assumed the features and tongue had been cut out. But that makes a lot of sense. Acid attacks are usually about humiliating as well as killing the victim. The other possibility, of course, is when criminals use it post-mortem to obscure identity. The Romanov family, murdered in Svederlosk, had acid pored on their bodies that way. But there was no attempt to deface the other hikers, so I think we can rule out that motive. And Russia is still on a list of countries where acid attacks on faces are used against ideological opponents--like the assaults on journalists in Moscow. It's also associated with gang violence and in disputes within ethnic groups and, of course, in violence against women. I think this is a VERY compelling suggestion. I've always thought there was something ritual about the attack, especially since it occurred on a winter/spring holiday in a lot of Northern sub-cultures.

It would also explain the melting and the darkness of the features here. One of the reports (I forget which) speculates that the last four were in the stream for just two weeks and that their bodies probably migrated there as the snow melted. I personally think they were laid there soon after they were discovered, to cover up the gruesome attacks on their faces. What are the odds that their faces just HAPPENED to wind up in the course of a stream? But even if they were there the whole time, there is no way that that kind of decay could have taken place in just that span of time. I've seen a body taken out of a cold river after being underwater during the winter, and it wasn't decayed right down to the bone. Just soggy.

May I ask how you came up with the idea of acid?
Title: Re: Whose body is this?
Post by: Ehtnisba on March 28, 2019, 08:52:07 AM
I have been reshearching about body decomposition in different environments and also looking at post mortem photos ,and I may say that I can rule out natural decay. If it was natural hands and other parts would be stripped to bone too. And also look at Zolotaryav post mortem picture. I don't want to post it here it is too gruesome. There it is visible how his face tissues are almost intact and are the phase of maceration,but baaam two black holes for eyes.  I have watched stages of decay from body farms ,and no there is no such thing of differently decayed parts. Whole body decomposes in same rate. With predators it is not just eyes and not whole eyes,birds eat from eyes but don't leave such complete big wholes.
And because there is absolutely nothing that could logically explain the missing eyes and deformes heads except for aliens , I tried to think what is the thing on Earth that makes faces deformed and like being burned - it is acid. And yes, acid us a well known mean of murder,punishing the victims,easy to be taken with you, it was freely diatributed in pharmacies not long ago. So for sure in late 50s there were no restrictions on selling it, like the codein pills of Kolevatov were free to buy without prescription.
So if the ravine injuries are pre mortem and not a decay, the only thing that could make them is acid spilled on their faces. The others were beaten and died of hypothermia, but ravine 4 made a den and were well dressed. But acid can't explain their chest injuries and Nikolai's skull..... So we are back at aliens with unknown weapon 😁😁😁
Title: Re: Whose body is this?
Post by: Star man on March 28, 2019, 09:49:26 AM
I have been reshearching about body decomposition in different environments and also looking at post mortem photos ,and I may say that I can rule out natural decay. If it was natural hands and other parts would be stripped to bone too. And also look at Zolotaryav post mortem picture. I don't want to post it here it is too gruesome. There it is visible how his face tissues are almost intact and are the phase of maceration,but baaam two black holes for eyes.  I have watched stages of decay from body farms ,and no there is no such thing of differently decayed parts. Whole body decomposes in same rate. With predators it is not just eyes and not whole eyes,birds eat from eyes but don't leave such complete big wholes.
And because there is absolutely nothing that could logically explain the missing eyes and deformes heads except for aliens , I tried to think what is the thing on Earth that makes faces deformed and like being burned - it is acid. And yes, acid us a well known mean of murder,punishing the victims,easy to be taken with you, it was freely diatributed in pharmacies not long ago. So for sure in late 50s there were no restrictions on selling it, like the codein pills of Kolevatov were free to buy without prescription.
So if the ravine injuries are pre mortem and not a decay, the only thing that could make them is acid spilled on their faces. The others were beaten and died of hypothermia, but ravine 4 made a den and were well dressed. But acid can't explain their chest injuries and Nikolai's skull..... So we are back at aliens with unknown weapon 😁😁😁

Wouldn’t acid leave more widespread tissue damage around the eyes and face? Not just leave black holes but burns to surrounding tissue?

Regards
Star man
Title: Re: Whose body is this?
Post by: User45 on March 28, 2019, 10:22:11 AM
I have been reshearching about body decomposition in different environments and also looking at post mortem photos ,and I may say that I can rule out natural decay. If it was natural hands and other parts would be stripped to bone too. And also look at Zolotaryav post mortem picture. I don't want to post it here it is too gruesome. There it is visible how his face tissues are almost intact and are the phase of maceration,but baaam two black holes for eyes.  I have watched stages of decay from body farms ,and no there is no such thing of differently decayed parts. Whole body decomposes in same rate. With predators it is not just eyes and not whole eyes,birds eat from eyes but don't leave such complete big wholes.
And because there is absolutely nothing that could logically explain the missing eyes and deformes heads except for aliens , I tried to think what is the thing on Earth that makes faces deformed and like being burned - it is acid. And yes, acid us a well known mean of murder,punishing the victims,easy to be taken with you, it was freely diatributed in pharmacies not long ago. So for sure in late 50s there were no restrictions on selling it, like the codein pills of Kolevatov were free to buy without prescription.
So if the ravine injuries are pre mortem and not a decay, the only thing that could make them is acid spilled on their faces. The others were beaten and died of hypothermia, but ravine 4 made a den and were well dressed. But acid can't explain their chest injuries and Nikolai's skull..... So we are back at aliens with unknown weapon 😁😁😁

The whole idea of Alien's attacking the Dyatlov Group is as ridiculous as a 10ft hairy giant murdering 9 people. The hikers were suggested to be alive several hours after fleeing their tent.

And it is very possible that a combination of predators and live bacteria after thawing spring (thawing can accelerate the decomposition process quite significantly) could have caused the missing eyes.
Title: Re: Whose body is this?
Post by: Nordlander on March 28, 2019, 11:43:50 AM
I think she was joking about aliens--as in "we don't know how they died in the ravine, so now we are back to aliens." That part is a true mystery: I tend to think they were jumped on, but that probably would have left more exterior signs. We need a coroner or an emergency room doctor from a bad neighborhood.

As for signs of burns on the body if acid had been used, Semyon and Luda's faces and chests have been eaten away. Alex K's face is also in bad shape, and if it IS him in the mystery photo, something had denuded his features. Crows generally just peck out eyes and take out the ends of noses. It COULD be bacteria from cycles of thawing and freezing, but if the photo IS of Alexander K, that would suggest the damage to the face happened before they were placed face-down in the water. That's why that photo is so potentially telling.
Title: Re: Whose body is this?
Post by: sarapuk on March 28, 2019, 01:33:54 PM
Well, we can presume it's not one of Ivanov's other cases from 1959 for reasons already mentioned. As for its being from an unrelated case, I'm not so sure. First of all, it's from someone from the same demographic as the Dyatlov group: young, physically fit European male not properly dressed for the elements and wearing some of the same under-clothing the others wore: what's described in the coroner's report as a "cowboy shirt." It's also someone who looks to have frozen to death but isn't in the usual position of those who die of hypothermia, the fetal position. Instead the person looks like his hands have been bound and perhaps his feet. Then it is someone whose upper face has been carved out around the sockets, his nose removed, and the jaw broken while the body remains intact.

I'm from a part of the world that has a similar climate to the Urals. Number of people who die like this during the winter every year: 0. This past year, because of the polar vortex, there was one young man who got locked out of his apartment and wasn't properly dressed, just like this unknown person. But he was found in a fetal position. We DO see young men who are drunk, leave a bar, go down to the water to urinate, and then fall in and freeze. I doubt people in Russia went around like they were dressed for Miami in the winter.

That being said, I agree we need a pathologist to weigh in on the usual postions of those who freeze to death. And the issue that continues to trouble me about identifying this body as Alex Z's is that he is wearing a coat in the ravine (it's the one that had radioactivity on it). I am pretty sure that is just a Country and Western shirt in the photo even though it appears lighter because of the snow. I can't see the collar and opening of a coat here. Can anyone else see a second garment? And it is pretty difficult to re-dress a corpse. Plus it begs the question of why someone would do that.

That's what I am trying to say according to plain logic. What are the odds of finding an undressed body in stretched position and no eyes in another case? Damn Russians going naked in the forest and fighting with star wars swords piercing through their eyes..   twitch7

About Kolevatov , yes he has a jacket in the ravine. That is the only detail that does not match. Unzipped jacket is easy to be put on stiff corpse as the hands are not bent so much. But again even if this is not Kolevatov ,yes, this body definetely has all the signs of being met by the same death as Dyatlov group ,which means this person has been with the group, or as I said must be common in Russia people to die in forests undressed with no eyes .... By the way Dyatlov has died in the same position like his hands and legs were tied. What do you think of murder by humans, who used acid on last 4 spilled on their faces?

Acid wasnt used. The Autopsy would have found evidence of any Acid attack.
Title: Re: Whose body is this?
Post by: sarapuk on March 28, 2019, 01:37:53 PM
I have been reshearching about body decomposition in different environments and also looking at post mortem photos ,and I may say that I can rule out natural decay. If it was natural hands and other parts would be stripped to bone too. And also look at Zolotaryav post mortem picture. I don't want to post it here it is too gruesome. There it is visible how his face tissues are almost intact and are the phase of maceration,but baaam two black holes for eyes.  I have watched stages of decay from body farms ,and no there is no such thing of differently decayed parts. Whole body decomposes in same rate. With predators it is not just eyes and not whole eyes,birds eat from eyes but don't leave such complete big wholes.
And because there is absolutely nothing that could logically explain the missing eyes and deformes heads except for aliens , I tried to think what is the thing on Earth that makes faces deformed and like being burned - it is acid. And yes, acid us a well known mean of murder,punishing the victims,easy to be taken with you, it was freely diatributed in pharmacies not long ago. So for sure in late 50s there were no restrictions on selling it, like the codein pills of Kolevatov were free to buy without prescription.
So if the ravine injuries are pre mortem and not a decay, the only thing that could make them is acid spilled on their faces. The others were beaten and died of hypothermia, but ravine 4 made a den and were well dressed. But acid can't explain their chest injuries and Nikolai's skull..... So we are back at aliens with unknown weapon 😁😁😁

Acid NO. Aliens ? There has certainly been enough sightings and experiences in the last 70 years or so of UFO's etc.
Title: Re: Whose body is this?
Post by: sarapuk on March 28, 2019, 01:42:08 PM
I have been reshearching about body decomposition in different environments and also looking at post mortem photos ,and I may say that I can rule out natural decay. If it was natural hands and other parts would be stripped to bone too. And also look at Zolotaryav post mortem picture. I don't want to post it here it is too gruesome. There it is visible how his face tissues are almost intact and are the phase of maceration,but baaam two black holes for eyes.  I have watched stages of decay from body farms ,and no there is no such thing of differently decayed parts. Whole body decomposes in same rate. With predators it is not just eyes and not whole eyes,birds eat from eyes but don't leave such complete big wholes.
And because there is absolutely nothing that could logically explain the missing eyes and deformes heads except for aliens , I tried to think what is the thing on Earth that makes faces deformed and like being burned - it is acid. And yes, acid us a well known mean of murder,punishing the victims,easy to be taken with you, it was freely diatributed in pharmacies not long ago. So for sure in late 50s there were no restrictions on selling it, like the codein pills of Kolevatov were free to buy without prescription.
So if the ravine injuries are pre mortem and not a decay, the only thing that could make them is acid spilled on their faces. The others were beaten and died of hypothermia, but ravine 4 made a den and were well dressed. But acid can't explain their chest injuries and Nikolai's skull..... So we are back at aliens with unknown weapon 😁😁😁

The whole idea of Alien's attacking the Dyatlov Group is as ridiculous as a 10ft hairy giant murdering 9 people. The hikers were suggested to be alive several hours after fleeing their tent.

And it is very possible that a combination of predators and live bacteria after thawing spring (thawing can accelerate the decomposition process quite significantly) could have caused the missing eyes.

Decomposition of just a few small selected body parts ? Seems a bit unlikely to Me. By 10ft hairy giant you are obviously referring to YETI and BIG FOOT type creatures. Of which there have been hundreds of sightings and hundreds of experiences over the last 70 years or so.
Title: Re: Whose body is this?
Post by: Loose}{Cannon on March 28, 2019, 07:50:02 PM
Not alot of food to be had this time of year for what wildlife does exist....  I bet their bodies sent off a very LOUD dinner bell.   Just saying. 
Title: Re: Whose body is this?
Post by: WAB on March 28, 2019, 09:11:19 PM
In this scenario at what point did they put Dubinina's hat and coat on Zolotaryov? Why redress the corpses before hiding them?

About the Dyatlov Foundation, I don't mean disrespect.

When I wrote my post I did not mean that you have disrespect for fund. I wrote for this purpose what state my point of view about fund, as I observe it during long time if tell precisely - after 2006. As always happens in life, any organization always has the lacks and the merits. It is necessary distinguish one and another and understand the event reasons.

We have a proverb in Bulgarian that translates to - Who sings evil does not think, or something like that, but I mean that you should think of malicious intends.

I hope that I have understood you correctly as well as you have understood to me.
Title: Re: Whose body is this?
Post by: Ehtnisba on March 29, 2019, 01:51:20 AM
I have been reshearching about body decomposition in different environments and also looking at post mortem photos ,and I may say that I can rule out natural decay. If it was natural hands and other parts would be stripped to bone too. And also look at Zolotaryav post mortem picture. I don't want to post it here it is too gruesome. There it is visible how his face tissues are almost intact and are the phase of maceration,but baaam two black holes for eyes.  I have watched stages of decay from body farms ,and no there is no such thing of differently decayed parts. Whole body decomposes in same rate. With predators it is not just eyes and not whole eyes,birds eat from eyes but don't leave such complete big wholes.
And because there is absolutely nothing that could logically explain the missing eyes and deformes heads except for aliens , I tried to think what is the thing on Earth that makes faces deformed and like being burned - it is acid. And yes, acid us a well known mean of murder,punishing the victims,easy to be taken with you, it was freely diatributed in pharmacies not long ago. So for sure in late 50s there were no restrictions on selling it, like the codein pills of Kolevatov were free to buy without prescription.
So if the ravine injuries are pre mortem and not a decay, the only thing that could make them is acid spilled on their faces. The others were beaten and died of hypothermia, but ravine 4 made a den and were well dressed. But acid can't explain their chest injuries and Nikolai's skull..... So we are back at aliens with unknown weapon 😁😁😁

The whole idea of Alien's attacking the Dyatlov Group is as ridiculous as a 10ft hairy giant murdering 9 people. The hikers were suggested to be alive several hours after fleeing their tent.

And it is very possible that a combination of predators and live bacteria after thawing spring (thawing can accelerate the decomposition process quite significantly) could have caused the missing eyes.

I was joking about the aliens .
But also i'm highly doubtful of predators under 4 m of snow and bacteria that eats only eyes in perfect holes....
Title: Re: Whose body is this?
Post by: sarapuk on March 29, 2019, 02:37:38 PM
So Aliens and Yeti type creatures wouldnt need to eat any of the Dyatlov group. Small very hungry Rodents  !  ? 9 bodies to feed on ! ? They would have been very selective then. Not what you would expect from hungry desperate for food animals  !  ?