Dyatlov Pass Forum

Theories Discussion => The stove => Topic started by: Nezza on September 25, 2019, 10:34:58 PM

Title: Carbon monoxide posoning
Post by: Nezza on September 25, 2019, 10:34:58 PM
In the satirical leaflet found in the tent called 'Evening Otorten',the stove is twice mention. Once asking comically whether 9 people can get by on one stove and a blanket.The other statement is of kolmogorova and doroshenko 'setting a world record' on stove assembly. Its suggested that this document was created on the fateful night of Febuary 1st.

I think that the stove was assembled that night,it was used, and was the reason why the dyatlov group members left the tent in such a weird state of CONFUSION.Think about out it. If the group seriously had no intentions of using the stove,then why would they take it with them on their more tiring final days of the treck,why not leave it in the cache with the other supplies?

 Even the packed up disassembled stove could be culprit to smouldering wood embers that can release the odourless,colourless and tasteless gas of carbon monoxide into the tent as they all sleep? Awaking in the night  in total darkness with a pounding headache and extremely confused. Its only once they have trekked into oblivion without proper clothing or protection,that that effects from the poisoning begin to subside and their logical actions and desire to survive now kicks in. Although they are now a mile from their tent in near darkness and feeling the full effects from the brutal elements.....
Title: Re: Carbon monoxide posoning
Post by: Star man on September 25, 2019, 11:40:36 PM
It’s a simple explanation.  But the stove had not been assembled and from what I understand there was no evidence it had been used.  They were supposed to spend some cold nights as a part of the level 3 certificate.

One last issue with the stove theory - why would there be so much secrecy around the stove?

Regards
Star man
Title: Re: Carbon monoxide posoning
Post by: Nezza on September 26, 2019, 05:50:44 AM
It’s a simple explanation.  But the stove had not been assembled and from what I understand there was no evidence it had been used.  They were supposed to spend some cold nights as a part of the level 3 certificate.

One last issue with the stove theory - why would there be so much secrecy around the stove?

Regards
Star man

I don't think its down to secrecy but more to do with being over looked as a legitimate theory which explains why 9 hikers would leave the safety of the tent ,then try to return to it later like they know their survival depends upon it.Even with a criteria need for their certification,i dont thin they refrain from using it if the conditions were that bad,its not like there is anyone around to see them use it
I like this theory as it should be easily testable ,much more so than other theories. With a set up replica tent and replica stove...it would be interesting to see if smouldering wood can infact create enough carbon monoxide to create disorientation with near lethal levels of the gas. to my knowledge,its never been tested for,which is pretty annoying as it should be easily disprovable if its not the culprit.
Title: Re: Carbon monoxide posoning
Post by: Star man on September 26, 2019, 08:47:50 AM
The point I was trying to make but badly is: why would there be so much secrecy over an accident involving a stove?  Also why introduce a 3 year ban on travel to the area?

Regards
Star man
Title: Re: Carbon monoxide posoning
Post by: Nezza on September 26, 2019, 10:47:39 AM
The point I was trying to make but badly is: why would there be so much secrecy over an accident involving a stove?  Also why introduce a 3 year ban on travel to the area?

Regards
Star man

The soviet union would apply secrecy  to any situation that might make them look incompetent. Since they couldn't fully discover what the deciding factor in the incident was,i would be unthinkable for them to allow a group out a few weeks later and possibly have the same thing happen again.So they basically swept it under the rug and took steps to see that it doesn't happen again.
Title: Re: Carbon monoxide posoning
Post by: sarapuk on September 30, 2019, 10:48:22 AM
The point I was trying to make but badly is: why would there be so much secrecy over an accident involving a stove?  Also why introduce a 3 year ban on travel to the area?

Regards
Star man

The soviet union would apply secrecy  to any situation that might make them look incompetent. Since they couldn't fully discover what the deciding factor in the incident was,i would be unthinkable for them to allow a group out a few weeks later and possibly have the same thing happen again.So they basically swept it under the rug and took steps to see that it doesn't happen again.

I think you are being to harsh on the USSR. Why would that particular State be any different to any other  !  ?  And also a faulty stove is hardly likely to drive all those young people out to their certain deaths. They would have made an attempt to get back into the tent rather than walk a mile in extreme weather conditions.
Title: Re: Carbon monoxide posoning
Post by: Monika on September 30, 2019, 11:50:01 PM
In the satirical leaflet found in the tent called 'Evening Otorten',the stove is twice mention. Once asking comically whether 9 people can get by on one stove and a blanket.The other statement is of kolmogorova and doroshenko 'setting a world record' on stove assembly. Its suggested that this document was created on the fateful night of Febuary 1st.

I think that the stove was assembled that night,it was used, and was the reason why the dyatlov group members left the tent in such a weird state of CONFUSION.Think about out it. If the group seriously had no intentions of using the stove,then why would they take it with them on their more tiring final days of the treck,why not leave it in the cache with the other supplies?

 Even the packed up disassembled stove could be culprit to smouldering wood embers that can release the odourless,colourless and tasteless gas of carbon monoxide into the tent as they all sleep? Awaking in the night  in total darkness with a pounding headache and extremely confused. Its only once they have trekked into oblivion without proper clothing or protection,that that effects from the poisoning begin to subside and their logical actions and desire to survive now kicks in. Although they are now a mile from their tent in near darkness and feeling the full effects from the brutal elements.....

Hello
If carbon dioxide escapes, there is a simple solution: come out of the tent and flip it over. Then the CO2 is dispersed and they can take their belongings.

They were certainly not disoriented; after escaping from the tent, they went in coordinated way down the slope  to the forest.

Title: Re: Carbon monoxide poisoning
Post by: brad112 on May 14, 2020, 03:55:44 AM
In the satirical leaflet found in the tent called 'Evening Otorten',the stove is twice mention. Once asking comically whether 9 people can get by on one stove and a blanket.The other statement is of kolmogorova and doroshenko 'setting a world record' on stove assembly. Its suggested that this document was created on the fateful night of Febuary 1st.

I think that the stove was assembled that night,it was used, and was the reason why the dyatlov group members left the tent in such a weird state of CONFUSION.Think about out it. If the group seriously had no intentions of using the stove,then why would they take it with them on their more tiring final days of the treck,why not leave it in the cache with the other supplies?

 Even the packed up disassembled stove could be culprit to smouldering wood embers that can release the odourless,colourless and tasteless gas of carbon monoxide into the tent as they all sleep? Awaking in the night  in total darkness with a pounding headache and extremely confused. Its only once they have trekked into oblivion without proper clothing or protection,that that effects from the poisoning begin to subside and their logical actions and desire to survive now kicks in. Although they are now a mile from their tent in near darkness and feeling the full effects from the brutal elements.....

This is the only theory that explains all the elements of the evidence. You can easily find evidence of carbon monoxide poisoning due to wood burning stoves on the internet. The Mayo Clinic lists the symptoms of carbon monoxide poisoning as follows: Dull headache, Weakness, Dizziness, Nausea or vomiting, Shortness of breath, Confusion, Blurred vision, Loss of consciousness.

A state of confusion, dizziness, blurred vision etc could explain why the tent was cut from the inside in a confused attempt to exit. This also could explain the slow or non-panic walking down the hill. There would be no reason to run and some may have been near unconscious so moving very slowly.

So is there evidence they used the stove?  From my understanding weather and temperature conditions were extreme on the night of February 1,2. They set-up their tent in the open, no trees or shelter from the wind. I believe it's possible that the wind became too violent for the exhaust pipe of the stove, so they decided to bring in the exhaust pipe and essentially partially pack the stove together leaving hot embers in the stove to continue to help heat the inside of the tent which in turn caused the concentration of carbon monoxide in the tent.


(https://i.ibb.co/TBnFHkZ/Dyatlov-pass-tent-1958-03.jpg) (https://ibb.co/C5XTnzq)

I know some testimony says the stove was in its case and not being used, but is it possible they only assumed that because it had been disassembled?  Testimony from V.  L. Lebedev states the following:

"There were many items in the tent. Near the entrance of the tent, which seems to have been opened, lay the stove inside its case. The pipes of the latter were inside the stove, which indicates that the stove was not attempted to be taken out , lit although outside the tent on the rear end end in the snow I found a log, undoubtedly intended for the stove."

I speculate how complete the stove was put away and if there may have been ashes inside. One thing we can all agree on is that the testimonies from the various searchers have many inconsistencies and can not be totally relied upon for accuracy, especially when it comes to the stove being used. I can easily see one assuming they didn't use the stove because the exhaust pipes were stacked next to the stove.

The group members with the most severe injuries (mostly broken ribs and fractured skull) can be explained by them falling through a layer of icy snow that had covered part of the ravine, falling to the bottom of the ravine which could have been very hard, even with rocks as it was later found out to be a water flow area for melting snow. I think it's likely two of them fell together one body landed on the other exacerbating the injuries and  Dubinina may have fallen on the rock where her body was found with many broken ribs. They believe she died very quickly after those injuries . Lastly, I think the radiation on the 3 pieces of clothing can be adequately explained by the work environments of the 2 group members who owned the clothing.

Brad