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General Discussion / Axelrod's Sept. 5 Posts in Materials Modern
« Last post by amashilu on September 07, 2026, 01:28:12 PM »
Axelrod, I first want to thank you for posting the entire English translation of Parts 1 and 2 of the August 3-4 Malakhov discussion. Even though some of it seems completely crazy ........

....... this is a question for Axelrod, but anyone can respond. Have you ever heard before any of these 3 things, in any theory, discussion, radio interview, conference, or other format?

1. Kolevatov's heart was severely damaged.
2. Zolotaryev descended into a secret military bunker the day before he died and was severely poisoned.
3. Zolotaryev picked up a machine gun and started killing the bad guys.
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Sloppy assassinations covered up by sloppier paperwork is not a great way to hide murder. I thought those people then were supposed to be at least as smart as we are now.
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Just a few additional words about the case files -

It is capital to understand that all 9 autopsy reports that we see in the case files are not originals, they are drafts and re-prints. There is a tiny possibility that texts of these reports fully match the originals. But more realistically, Ivanov could have "adjusted” something before putting the reports into the folder, which had no registration number. If that was the case, it was not Ivanov who made the decisions about what needed to be removed from the texts of the original medical records. This is NOT within the purview of the prosecutor’s office at all. These decisions were made by an authorized KGB officer who had been granted the right to decide what constituted a state secret and what did not. Measures to ensure the preservation of state secrets were within the purview of the KGB, not the prosecutor’s office.

The fact that Ivanov spent a lot of time producing the re-prints hints that certain corrections to the autopsy reports were made indeed. It also indicates that Ivanov received "blessing" from the top of his organization to manufacture the case files in the form, which we have found them. This is not normal or "rural" way to create case files at all.
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I think the “two foams” distinction is a useful way to look at it, but I’d be a little cautious about making it too absolute. The autopsy wording isn’t always precise enough to cleanly separate upper-airway froth from true alveolar flooding with modern forensic confidence, especially after months of snow and water exposure in the ravine. Tropical Casino https://tropical-casino.com/ makes me think of the same problem with game history or session data: a label can look definitive until you realize the underlying record is incomplete or ambiguous. I’d treat the foam distinction as one clue among several, not something that settles the question by itself.

That said, the combination in the ravine group is the key point: severe chest trauma, internal hemorrhage, and signs consistent with breathing/circulation continuing for at least some period after injury. That fits a compression scenario much better than a clean fall or explosion. For me the main unresolved question is still the mechanics: what exact snow/den/cornice configuration could produce that level of localized crushing without leaving more obvious skeletal trauma in all four?

Thank you , I know it's not perfect but it shows us a slight distinction from the non ravine hikers , when taken in isolation it doesn't say much but combined with the scene that we find and the potential for such an incident, all the components are there.

When you look at the terrain in the ravine — not just in 1959 photos but in modern ones — the way the snow builds is very consistent. The cornices form like a slow‑motion wave crest: they curl over, hollow underneath, and advance while leaving a void behind them. As they grow, they create a natural roof , especially once the overhang meets or partially meets the opposite wall.

You don’t even need a full bridge for a usable shelter. A drift on one side and a cornice on the other gives you a potential two‑metre‑high, two‑metre‑deep snow drift you can scoop into. If you remove too much from the face or the underside of the cornice, the slab above loses support and drops vertically. Wet, compacted snow can reach very high densities, and when it falls straight down into a confined space it produces a localised vertical load, not a uniform collapse.

I'm not sure what skeletal we would expect to find or would be obvious?? If they fell , I would expect broken wrists , collar bones and ankles etc. If they were lying or in some way vertical and the force came from the side ( think of them falling like a tree and feet being the pivot point) , I would expect to see the injuries described in the autopsy. The ground level or stones is the hard point of impact or the solid form that the snow mass forces the bodies against. The pelvis is too strong and there's no femur fractures ,  tibia/fibula, no  humerus/radius/ulna ,clavicle fractures. It would seem that the force can only inflicted a certain way ?.

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Several broadcasts of Malakhov's program, the transcripts of which I prepared in the Media section, suggest that Zolotaryov's camera may have had a tape recorder (dictaphone) or a radio transmitter, like a modern mobile phone. If radio communication was available, such a device could have recorded or retransmitted conversations in which Zolotaryov was present, in which the expedition participants spoke negatively of the Soviet regime or talked about their work in secret military factories.

So, it's entirely possible that Zolotaryov was carrying a radio transmitter or dictaphone disguised as a camera. Therefore, the item was confiscated and not inventoried. The question is how feasible this was possible in technological conditions of 1959 and the possibility of direct radio communication in that remote area.
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@Ziljoe

I am not stopping you from holding onto an unnumbered case file. For me, Ivanov's letters are far more valuable—they explicitly state that the truth was concealed. That is enough to understand that the case file without a number—including the final conclusion of the investigation—does not reflect the actual state of affairs.

You can see the contradiction yourself. Zolotaryov's camera is clearly visible in the photograph, while there is no mention of it in the case file. So yes, there are very specific facts that can be relied upon.

Anyone who can decipher Ivanov's letters (after all, they are written in riddles and between the lines) can easily find out what actually happened at the Pass. But everyone has to come to this conclusion on their own—otherwise, they simply won't believe it.
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@Suri


If your position is that the entire case file is fabricated, then none of the documents you’re citing — the camera, the tent, the dates, the autopsies, the expert interrogation — can be used to support any theory, including yours. 

That’s fine if that’s your view, but it means the discussion can’t move forward on evidence. I’m focusing on the physical findings described consistently across the search reports, photos, and witness accounts, because those remain the same regardless of administrative irregularities.

Since I was trying to find a possible pattern to the cause of the injuries with the data that I understand to be true. Would you now be so kind to present the actual injuries that occured so I could try to determine what might of occured, or perhaps your version of the injuries to the ravine 4 from whatever non-fake documents that you may have found?
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I'm leaning more towards the idea that they were injured in the tent and then moved.

This option is out of the question because, as we know, Zolotaryov had a camera and was actively taking photos.
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...but I’m focusing on the physical evidence itself rather than the administrative anomalies.

You are focusing on the tail of the snake rather than its head. The "administrative anomalies" you are trying to dismiss are actually the legal framework that defines whether your physical evidence is even real or completely fabricated.

There's nothing exciting in the actual document that even contradicts any of the retelling of how the ravine 4 were found.

Are you seriously not bothered by the fact that Vladimir Askinadzi explicitly stated that he never signed anything? Rain or folding paper doesn't magically spawn a forged signature. But by now, I am quite used to you looking at things completely upside down—for you, black is probably white as well.

...at the time nobody knew what had happened or whether a crime had even occurred.

Those who created the document on February 6th already knew what had happened. And from that forged document, we suddenly have an entire case file that lacks an official registration number.

I think we can safely believe the autopsy reports.

I wouldn't even take the interrogation of the forensic expert Vozrozhdenny seriously. Again, it is riddled with errors. For instance, he was never warned of criminal liability for false testimony. I also seriously doubt that Jr. Counselor of Justice Ivanov wouldn't know the proper spelling of his own title and that he would forget the hyphen. I would even say that the entire document was written by a single hand.

прокурор–криминалист
прокурор криминалист

https://dyatlovpass.com/case-files-381-383-ru?rbid=17747

So Suri , do you think a snow collapse at the ravine might have caused the injuries we see and are reported?

To answer your final question. No, a snow collapse cannot cause injuries that were documented in forged, legally invalid papers inside a fake case file.
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Please counter argue and find my errors in my poor medical understanding of the autopsy.
Frankly, I see no point in driving any significant conclusions from the autopsy reports that we can see in the case files.

Absolutely brilliant analysis. You hit the nail on the head. While everyone else is arguing about wind speeds and snow depths, they completely miss an obvious and massive fact that cannot be ignored – this unnumbered criminal case file itself is essentially a crime scene.

And these forensic reports are just the tip of the iceberg. Take, for example, the protocol of inspection of the scene where the bodies were found, the witnesses' names are written with gross errors and distortions. Furthermore, Vladimir Askinadzi himself later directly declared that he never signed anything.

https://dyatlovpass.com/case-files-341-343?rbid=17743

These legal anomalies and signs of document forgery serve as irrefutable proof of third-party intervention.

This isn't the point of my question unfortunately. If we are to review the case , we must approach it without bias. That's a difficult thing to do.


I think we’re using the word “analysis” differently. Senior’s post is an interpretation of the seal situation, but it isn’t analysis in the strict sense — it doesn’t break the documents down into their physical characteristics or consider alternative explanations. 

That’s fine, everyone approaches the case differently, but I’m focusing on the physical evidence itself rather than the administrative anomalies.

The link you supply shows two versions. A typed version, probably for clarity for the case file and what looks like , field notes . We can see the folds in the hand written notes , a slight water mark that bleeds through the two pages and affects the ink. The page with the signature's looks to be the outside of the folding when stored as has the most weathering. This would suggest that the document has travelled and that is most likely from the location at the pass , to the final draft by Ivanov or whoever typed the typed copy. There's nothing exciting in the actual document that even contradicts any of the retelling of how the ravine 4 were found.

Regarding the case files, the seals, signatures, and formatting differences — my understanding is that the case file isn’t a single authored document. It’s an umbrella that contains material from multiple institutions, created at different times, under different circumstances, with different procedures.

Some documents are carbon copies without stamps. Some stamped originals stayed with the issuing institution. Some field notes were written outdoors and later copied. Some statements were taken in Ivdel, others in Sverdlovsk, each using their own boilerplate forms. Autopsies came from different medical facilities with different certification practices. Search protocols were handwritten in the field and later typed up for clarity.

The case file is simply a collection of all these documents — field notes, interviews, autopsies, protocols, memos — gathered from different places, different people, and different workflows. They weren’t produced under a unified “criminal case” mindset, because at the time nobody knew what had happened or whether a crime had even occurred.

So the variation we see isn’t evidence of forgery; it’s just the normal patchwork of a multi‑source Soviet case file.When you look at the case file as a multi‑source archive rather than a single authored document, most of the anomalies make sense without needing to assume anything unusual.

I think we can safely believe the autopsy reports.
So Suri , do you think a snow collapse at the ravine might have caused the injuries we see and are reported?
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