Were the bodies taken away and later replaced?

[amashilu]

A number of folks, among them our administrator, Teddy, propose that the bodies were found well before February 26 and flown to hospital in Ivdel, where they were washed and set aside, waiting for someone to sound the alarm about missing people, since at that point the hospital personnel did not know who they were.

At least one of the pilots who flew the area BEFORE the bodies were found by searchers, claims that he saw the tent and two corpses lying near it.

I have been re-reading these people's (and others' as well) testimony and theories, and it seems to me that this idea of the bodies having been taken off the slope and later replaced fits a number of different theories and could be true.

The nurse who washed the bodies said that they sent someone out to buy new clothes for the corpses. To me, this means that they had cut the clothes off the bodies, common procedure in handling such cases. Later, after learning the identity of the bodies and the method by which they died, someone panicked, took the new clothes back off the corpses, and did their best to put the original clothes back on. This created the very weird exchange of clothes found later on the bodies, since the re-dressers could not of course remember who had been wearing what.

There were also odds and ends of clothing found all over the slope. It could be that the people who returned the bodies to the scene carried along a stack of clothing, cut and not-cut, and did not succeed in getting all the pieces back on the bodies.

This accounts as well for some cut pieces on the bodies; I believe Lyudmila was wearing one cut-off sweater sleeve on one leg (described as neatly cut, as with a knife or scissors, which the DY group did not have available).

What do you think? Is it logical and does it fit the facts that the bodies were flown to Ivdel and later replaced in the snow?

[Manti]

It's the very definition of "conspiracy theory". It requires a large number of people to conspire to do unusual things, and for no apparent benefit. Hospitals don't normally buy new clothes for corpses, for example.

And no matter how the Dyatlov Group died, there is no reason to return their bodies to the scene to be found again. Nobody does that. Who does it benefit? The people who originally found them and took them to the morgue aren't guilty of anything.

[GlennM]

What Manti said.

[amashilu]

How can you be so sure? Many folks who have studied this situation for 50 years propose the bodies were taken away and later replaced. I thought it was pretty sketch when I first heard it, too, but now .... I'm thinking it may have happened.

[ilahiyol]

If the corpses were taken, why would they be brought back??? Why? There is no answer. The corpses were instantly destroyed. Especially the ones in the snow cave.... If you want to hide something, you will remove all the clues. Especially their corpses....Someone answer me, "Why were the corpses brought back again?"

[GlennM]

You would have to accept they were removed in the first place. Do you?

[amashilu]

Well, I think she doesn't need to accept that; she is just looking for information at this point.

There are several theories that involve the removal and replacement of the bodies. It is speculated that they were found early on, before anyone knew who they were or what had caused their deaths, so they were flown to Ivdel hospital to await identification. Here is where theories begin to diverge. One says that geologists who had been responsible for their deaths (by working in the area with explosives) panicked. Another theory says that high-up political authority figures were responsible, but had to cover it up to avoid getting in trouble, or embarrassing the country. Lots of theories ... at any rate, the bodies were quickly put back and made to look like they had frozen to death, to avoid anyone getting blamed.

[GlennM]

The difference being the lack of motive to kill nine hikers.

[Manti]

Well, I think she doesn't need to accept that; she is just looking for information at this point.

There are several theories that involve the removal and replacement of the bodies. It is speculated that they were found early on, before anyone knew who they were or what had caused their deaths, so they were flown to Ivdel hospital to await identification. Here is where theories begin to diverge. One says that geologists who had been responsible for their deaths (by working in the area with explosives) panicked. Another theory says that high-up political authority figures were responsible, but had to cover it up to avoid getting in trouble, or embarrassing the country. Lots of theories ... at any rate, the bodies were quickly put back and made to look like they had frozen to death, to avoid anyone getting blamed.

They* already looked like they froze to death, there is no need to place them back. That only makes it look less like they froze and more like some suspicious manipulation took place.
*: Well, not all of them, but it appears that most of these theories also don't see all of them being taken to the morgue and back, only some. 5 or 6 people. The rest aren't found initially.



Anyway, imagine yourself in the place of the geologists (or the high-ranking party members). The bodies have already been found. They have been examined. An investigative case opened. Do you then go to the morgue and take the bodies? Why would they let you do that? And if they do, what does the investigator think? Some unidentified bodies suddenly disappear. Who took them and why? It will just instantly shine the spotlight on you. And not just you because several people are needed to carry out this operation. Helicopters need to be used. To be refueled. How do you account for a trip to a morgue in Ivdel when you are a geologist supposedly using that helicopter to survey the mountains?


And what do you gain by returning them to where the incident occurred in the first place? That doesn't deflect blame from you. Perhaps if it turned out that the bodies were found in a completely different area to some other artifacts like the tent or the stove, etc.

[marieuk]

I understand the bodies potentially removed and returned were described as very dirty.  Apart from Teddy's tree theory, what else could have made them so dirty?  It would be good to hear any ideas from people who know the area.

[Manti]

Well, here is my idea. But I don't know the area and I'm also keen to hear from people who do.

My guess is that those were simply different people. For example, workers in some factory, mining or logging operation who suffered a separate incident and froze.

[amashilu]

Hmmmm ... the nurse who washed them said that two of them were women. I wonder if women worked in those operations in 1959 in that part of the world?

[GlennM]

Remember that when asked about this matter, it was Nurse Solter's husband who did the talking. It may very well be that this entire line of inquiry is a red herring.

I believe we all know that the hikers died in the woods and lay there until the rescuers found them. All else is smoke and mirrors.

[Manti]

Hmmmm ... the nurse who washed them said that two of them were women. I wonder if women worked in those operations in 1959 in that part of the world?

Good point. Perhaps in factories yes. I wouldn't think they worked as miners or loggers. Although equality of genders was a core value:

[GlennM]

Makes me wonder what that kind of gender equality in Russia was really like then and now. I bet Soviet Karen's are few and far between.

I really think this body shuffle partmof the DPI legend is a big misdirection.

[Почемучка]

Makes me wonder what that kind of gender equality in Russia was really like then and now. I bet Soviet Karen's are few and far between.

I really think this body shuffle partmof the DPI legend is a big misdirection.

Не пытайтесь понимать речь, просто досмотрите до конца. Это фрагмент нашего фильма 1957 года. Там Вы рассмотрите наше равенство в пропорциональном представлении.
Были в СССР - женщины: геологами, шахтерами, сталеварами, крановщиками, ...
Были, потому что мужское население было достаточно сильно уменьшено войною. Необходимость в рабочих руках, даже если это женские руки. Вот так просто. Никаких государственных тайн.



Don't try to understand the speech, just watch to the end. This is a fragment of our 1957 film. There you will consider our equality in proportional representation
There were women in the USSR: geologists, miners, steelworkers, crane operators, ...
There were, because the male population was greatly reduced by the war. The need for working hands, even if they are women's hands. It's that simple. No state secrets.
++++++++++++++++++++++
А если говорить об инсценировке, то стоимость этого спектакля - никак не оправдывается полученным эффектом.
Пытаюсь вспомнить хоть какую-нибудь историю, чтобы пошли на такой трюк люди, никак не относящиеся к самому безусловному криминальному контингенту. И не могу. Государственные организации и предприятия вплоть до воинских подразделений: просто убирали быстро и без огласки неприятности. Так чтоб следов не оставалось даже на следующий день.

В России - случались и катастрофы поездов, и пожары в клубах во время киносеансов, и падения самолетов во время тренировочных полетов.  Да много чего, в чем были виновны и руководители предприятий разного уровня управленческой администрации.
Сталинизм, как это не смешно, приучил к тому, что виновность все равно вскроется и такие действия просто еще добавят многие лета к сроку осуждения. Поэтому повинные головы - просто бежали в КПСС и поясняли как, что почему и что больше такого не будет.

And if we talk about staging, then the cost of this performance is in no way justified by the effect obtained.
I'm trying to remember at least some story so that people who do not belong to the most unconditional criminal contingent go for such a trick. And I can't. State organizations and enterprises up to military units: they simply cleaned up troubles quickly and without publicity. So that there are no traces even the next day.

n Russia, there have been train accidents, fires in clubs during movie screenings, and plane crashes during training flights. Yes, a lot of things, of which the heads of enterprises of various levels of managerial administration were also guilty.
Stalinism, as it is not funny, taught that guilt will be revealed anyway and such actions will simply add many more years to the term of conviction. Therefore, the guilty heads simply ran to the CPSU and explained how, what, why and that this would not happen again.

[GlennM]

We must also remember that if the bodies were taken to the morgue, manipulated and eventually returned, there was a need to do so. Common sense wouldmtell us that nurse Solter would be sworn to silence, perhaps under pain of punishment. She was not! She freely told her story to anyone who would listen.

That is a glaring oversight and remarkable ineptitude for someone hiding their sin, yes?