Timeline

[amashilu]

Forensic pathologist Eduard Tumanov noted that in the autopsies, many of the hikers had injuries that were not "fresh." That is, for example, bruises were beginning to turn green and injuries to crust over, indicating that they were inflicted one to two days prior to death.

Then we see that Rustem's punch to the head brought him to death within a span of minutes, as did Tibo's, and Luyda's and Zolotaryev's rib crushing.

So, what does the timeline look like to you, from leaving the tent to moment of death? If we just for a moment pretend that the bruises and other insults were not ALL from just the daily grind, as I'm sure many of them could have been, but from whatever-happened, do you think there was a series of incidents over a period of two days? What does that look like?

[Ziljoe]

Forensic pathologist Eduard Tumanov noted that in the autopsies, many of the hikers had injuries that were not "fresh." That is, for example, bruises were beginning to turn green and injuries to crust over, indicating that they were inflicted one to two days prior to death.

Then we see that Rustem's punch to the head brought him to death within a span of minutes, as did Tibo's, and Luyda's and Zolotaryev's rib crushing.

So, what does the timeline look like to you, from leaving the tent to moment of death? If we just for a moment pretend that the bruises and other insults were not ALL from just the daily grind, as I'm sure many of them could have been, but from whatever-happened, do you think there was a series of incidents over a period of two days? What does that look like?

A good and interesting question .

[Ziljoe]

There is nothing written that says RUSTEM SLOBODIN received a punch to the head. Nor does it say that it is what brought him to death. I think it implies that if he sustained this injury then it would possibly bring him to death.

However, Igor b has questioned this fracture and put forth other considerations for the fracture. One being , the freezing of the fluids in the skull. ( This is also referenced in evidence based case studies of death by freezing) . The concept is falling by exhaustion and hypothermia in the snow. Tunneling into the snow a bit with the head going in first. If we note  RUSTEM SLOBODIN hat , it is pushed backwards . ( The fact that this hat is still on his head gives argument against outsiders, being made to undress, a fight, or strong winds?)

Anyway, if his head is covered , or the top of the skull is but his neck is exposed and torso is covered by his jacket, then we have the freezing of fluids happening at different times. . If his neck freeze's and continues up towards the skull there is argument that the expansion forces the crack . The opposing argument it not being a blow to the head that caused the death is that if it was pre death, then the freezing of the skull would have left a mass of frozen fluid between the skull and skin as the fluid got forced out through freezing.

I hope that makes sense.

[amashilu]

I thought it was pretty well agreed that Rustem had a blow to the side of his head, which caused him to fall immediately, and since his body was warm, it created an ice circle as he died. Maybe that's compatible with what you are saying. I tried not to read your gruesome explanation too carefully. 

So if he died right away, then what happened to the others, in the timeline? Did they go on living for 2 more days, getting injured and bruised over time?

[Ziljoe]

It is uncomfortable reading but part of nature. I think it's suggested that a blow to the head by a blunt instrument or rocks on the ground may have caused the fracture. We have to understand the skill set of the pathology at the time.

RUSTEM SLOBODIN was the only one to have been reported to have ice under his body. That doesn't mean the others didn't. This suggests he died at that location at least.

It doesn't mean he died right away, it just implies he died there, where he was found.

I can't answer the question if the process of their deaths was over a number of days, and it is a valid question .

If we look at it from the assumption of they left the tent  together , then I can only put forward a general idea. I am at this point looking at it from a natural cause, or at least not outsiders. ( I'm not against outsiders by the way) .

 Reasons for leaving the tent without boots, axe's etc that I find most logical.

1) Wolverine 2) avalanche/build up of snow/ snow slide 3) WABs sound vibration. 4) maybe some kind of poisoning ( tinned food) 5) internal conflict ( I have a problem with internal conflict leading to them" all" leaving the tent)

By the reports/statements it looks like they all went to the ceder. It makes a bit of sense to take the branches to start the fire. I can't work out what the exact chronology sequence was after that.

Thoughts are. Find water, from Wolverine or poisoning. Did they get wet? Was the attempt to make a fire before or after the ravine?

I'm stuck at the thought that they got to the ceder, then the ravine I can't decided which problem came first. A snow collapse caused the panic and then 5 went back to the ceder. The 5 tried to dig out the ravine four. The 2 Yuri's were wet and tried to make a fire when the other three thought they would go back to the tent for equipment. The threat at the tent now outweighed the the situation at the ravine / ceder???

Some things to consider that suggest a snow collapse are the broken ribs and neck fracture along with the absence of frostbite . It suggests a quick death with lack of exposure to the cold.

All obvious thinking and far from perfect.

Looking at from the perspective of outsider's, the variabilities are endless.i don't wish to be disagreeable but I can't see anything that is conclusive.

1)Ravine four: , under 3 meters of snow( hard compact snow, suggesting a snow collapse). Broken ribs (flail) . Deformed neck  . No frost bite.

2)both Yuri's at ceder: partially undressed, burns , next to fire. Suggests trying to get warm. Inside of leg wear missing suggesting climbing tree.

3) Igor b is in classic boxer postion of hypothermia, Rustem digging into snow. Zina ( reported to have a snow beard) . Hands clenched in postion of sleep. (Thumb between two fingers) .

[RMK]

Just a reminder about what Slobodin's autopsy report says: 

The fracture of the left frontal lobe bone could have occurred during a fall by Slobodin or the impact of the head on a hard object such as rocks, ice, etc. A blunt object caused the above-mentioned trauma. When this happened it would have caused Slobodin to become stunned and allowed for his rapid freezing. The absence of explicit bleeding under the meninges allows for the assumption that Slobodin’s death came as a result of his freezing.

In other words, Vozrozhdenny observed intracranial hemorrhaging.  But, because the hemorrhaging was all external to the meninges, he concluded that it was, by itself, not life threatening.  However, it did incapacitate Slobodin outdoors in the freezing weather, hence, he determined Cause of Death to be hypothermia.

[amashilu]

Yes, he was incapacitated, his warm body fell and did a little melting action underneath him.
Anyway, many think he was the first to die.
What happened then? The others stayed alive for another couple days, and somehow got bruised and injured?

[Missi]

The theory I currently believe in, is mostly the one suggested by Teddy in their book. Completed partly by details, discussed in the forum.

The timeline according to what I believe would be the following:

The tent is located in the forest at the foot of the slope. In the night, a tree falls on the tent, while the hikers sleep. Dubinina, Zolotaryev, Tibo and Kolevatov are badly injured. Dibinina and Zolotaryev die shortly after. Tibo and Kolevatov might be alive for a while longer.
Slobodin is injured in the head, but the adrenaline and the will to get out and help numbs the pain and nobody realizes that he's injured worse, than visible at first glance.
The others are hurt more or less badly, scratches and bruises. Maybe they need to cut the tent to get out. Maybe they cut it later in order to help those, still inside.
The night is long and cold. The Yuris die. One by freezing, one maybe because of his injuries.
Those left know, they need help, so they turn to the slope and climb it, in order to signal to the pilots, whose planes fly in the area of the slope. They are with the geological expedition. But they are cold, injured, tired, the adrenaline rush is over. Slobodin finally loses conscience and dies, because of his head injury. Dyatlov and Zina try to go on but finally fail.

The tent and the bodies are found. Not all though. In an attempt to cover up the accident because they are afraid of being made responsible for neglect of security, those found are brought to the morgue, washed and they are almost starting autopsies, when the search starts. Not all bodies are found as of yet, so it's decided to bring back the others and stage a scene, trying to make everyone believe, the hikers froze to death.
In order to cover up the bad injuries, some are thrown into the ravine, topped with KOH (in the hope to hasten the decay of the bodies) and much snow. Things don't go as expected and in the end the amount of KOH leaves radioactive traces on the ravine 4.

Please be gently, the question was for a timeline. I know there are flaws in the theory as depicted above. It's because I'm tired and don't want to look up all the details just now... In short you could say, I follow Teddy's theory with the add-on of the KOH, which I picked up in a thread in the forum-part concerning radioactivity.
All in all they died within a period of about 6-9 hours.

[Ziljoe]

The theory I currently believe in, is mostly the one suggested by Teddy in their book. Completed partly by details, discussed in the forum.

The timeline according to what I believe would be the following:

The tent is located in the forest at the foot of the slope. In the night, a tree falls on the tent, while the hikers sleep. Dubinina, Zolotaryev, Tibo and Kolevatov are badly injured. Dibinina and Zolotaryev die shortly after. Tibo and Kolevatov might be alive for a while longer.
Slobodin is injured in the head, but the adrenaline and the will to get out and help numbs the pain and nobody realizes that he's injured worse, than visible at first glance.
The others are hurt more or less badly, scratches and bruises. Maybe they need to cut the tent to get out. Maybe they cut it later in order to help those, still inside.
The night is long and cold. The Yuris die. One by freezing, one maybe because of his injuries.
Those left know, they need help, so they turn to the slope and climb it, in order to signal to the pilots, whose planes fly in the area of the slope. They are with the geological expedition. But they are cold, injured, tired, the adrenaline rush is over. Slobodin finally loses conscience and dies, because of his head injury. Dyatlov and Zina try to go on but finally fail.

The tent and the bodies are found. Not all though. In an attempt to cover up the accident because they are afraid of being made responsible for neglect of security, those found are brought to the morgue, washed and they are almost starting autopsies, when the search starts. Not all bodies are found as of yet, so it's decided to bring back the others and stage a scene, trying to make everyone believe, the hikers froze to death.
In order to cover up the bad injuries, some are thrown into the ravine, topped with KOH (in the hope to hasten the decay of the bodies) and much snow. Things don't go as expected and in the end the amount of KOH leaves radioactive traces on the ravine 4.

Please be gently, the question was for a timeline. I know there are flaws in the theory as depicted above. It's because I'm tired and don't want to look up all the details just now... In short you could say, I follow Teddy's theory with the add-on of the KOH, which I picked up in a thread in the forum-part concerning radioactivity.
All in all they died within a period of about 6-9 hours.

Good post Missi. I too forget what I read. Its a good question posed by amashilu.

Let's get our thoughts out in the open.

[tenne]

Where does digging out the den come into the time line? I have always struggled with the time and effort that would take and how much time they might have had in those conditions to get it done.

I saw a reference somewhere to some of the supplies were missing from the official tally, so I am using that as a reason for the den.

They dig the 'den' to drop more supplies after the found cache and then go on up to the slope to camp in harsh conditions deliberately.

they cut their way out of the tent
4 walk to the den to get some supplies out on the way to the den they fall through a natural soft spot in the snow and get their injuries and can't get back out (like falling in a tree well)
the other 5 go to the cedar and start the fire
2 climb the tree to see where the 4 are and fall and then try to keep the fire going as the 3 head back to the tent to get what they can because they think its too dangerous to go to the den

[Manti]

I wondered this, too.

I don't think the injuries could be from a confrontation that happened days before. There would be a mention of it in the diaries.

Then the option that is left is that they survived for days after abandoning the tent. This is contradicted by the autopsy finding that they died 6-8 hours after their last meal. However, it seems like hypothermia even if it incapacitates a person within hours, does not immediately lead to death. The person enters a kind of coma-like state, they first can't move as their joint become immobile, then later become unconscious. But their "base" bodily processes still continue however, like breathing. This also includes wound healing. Truely gruesome (more so than the Dyatlov case), but if you are interested, read about the case of Tsewang Paljor aka. "green boots". He became hypothermic while climbing Mt Everest.

[GlennM]

A number of posts in this thread refer to Rustem and his injuries. What I find compelling is that he was not heading into the forest, but away from it. He was not heading for the labaz,  but was going parallel to it. He was oriented in the direction of the found tent. He was living when his body hit the ground.

For me this confirms in the timeline(1) that the tent was placed on 1079 before his trek in that direction. If he was moving toward the tent, then (2) it necessarily follows that a tent was there in front of him, not behind.

Whether his physical injuries were accidental or incidental is of secondary importance. Of primary importance is how the hikers were induced to leave the tent. The available evidence points to a natural event which may be the combined effect of wind and snow on the camp.