Snow on the tent

[amashilu]

"The decision to initiate a criminal case was issued by V. Tempalov, the prosecutor of the city of Ivdel. This resolution was issued on February 26, 1959 and it states that the case was initiated in connection with the data on the discovery of the corpses of student hikers at the height 1079". So it is written in the introductory part of the resolution. (Povetkin)

The date of Feb. 26 has been called into question because the 26 looks to many folks like it was forged and it was originally February 6.

At any rate, I remember reading somewhere that because the searchers immediately suspected the Mansi of murdering the hikers, murder was their first assumption.

[Ziljoe]

"The decision to initiate a criminal case was issued by V. Tempalov, the prosecutor of the city of Ivdel. This resolution was issued on February 26, 1959 and it states that the case was initiated in connection with the data on the discovery of the corpses of student hikers at the height 1079". So it is written in the introductory part of the resolution. (Povetkin)

The date of Feb. 26 has been called into question because the 26 looks to many folks like it was forged and it was originally February 6.

At any rate, I remember reading somewhere that because the searchers immediately suspected the Mansi of murdering the hikers, murder was their first assumption.

I'm aware of that but I do wonder what the phrase "criminal case" means. We have had errors in translation and law. One being, death by violence in Russia doesn't mean murder.

Having tried our friend Google about the laws of search and rescue , I found this.



Russia
Edit
In Russia, Article 125 of the criminal code prohibits knowingly abandoning people who are in life- or health-threatening situations when said people cannot help themselves. However it binds only those who are either legally obligated to care for said people or who themselves have put said people into life or health threatening situation. The maximum penalty is 1 year in prison.[49]

Serbia
Edit
In Serbia, a citizen is required by law to provide help to anyone in need (after for example a major car accident) as long as providing help does not endanger him or her personally. Serbian criminal code Articles 126 and 127 state that should one abandon a helpless person and/or not provide aid to a person in need, one could receive a prison sentence of up to one year. If the person dies of injuries due to no aid having been provided by the bystander, a sentence up to 8 years in prison can be imposed.

I wonder if we are confusing the term criminal case in its simplest terms and assuming it's being addressed as a crime has taken place , where as it's actually being addressed as the potential of a criminal case if they don't at least try and help the missing hikers?

Maybe one of our Russian members could clarify?

[amashilu]

 Povetkin says:  "A criminal case is initiated only if there are signs of some kind of foul play, murder, negligence, treason, etc., provided for by a specific article of the Criminal Code."

[amashilu]

I want to go back a bit to where Ziljoe and I had a disagreement about the dates of the tent-finding. There is a lot of discrepancy regarding this, but I think here is a basic timeline, crudely accurate?

February 24 - Pashin and Cheglakov find the tent, but for whatever reason, do not attempt to go inside.

February 26 - Pashin and Cheglakov hint to other searchers which direction they should go in to find the tent. Slobtsov and Sharavin find the tent. It is covered with hard snow. There is an ice axe stuck outside the front entrance. They use the ice ax to cut into the snow on top of the tent and make some slashes in the fabric so they can peer inside (which Pashin and Cheglakov should have done) to see if there are any people in there. There are no people. Looking in through the cuts, they make a quick mental inventory, but do not go in. Ortyukov gives instructions to leave the tent alone until he can get there.

February 27 - Bodies are discovered and the focus moves away from the tent.

February 28 - Officials return to the tent and, with witnesses present, take photos and enter the tent. The only pictures that we have show the snow in a strange formation on top of one side of the tent, heavy and mounded, like snow that has been shoveled into place and then patted down with the back side of a shovel.

[Ziljoe]

I want to go back a bit to where Ziljoe and I had a disagreement about the dates of the tent-finding. There is a lot of discrepancy regarding this, but I think here is a basic timeline, crudely accurate?

February 24 - Pashin and Cheglakov find the tent, but for whatever reason, do not attempt to go inside.

February 26 - Pashin and Cheglakov hint to other searchers which direction they should go in to find the tent. Slobtsov and Sharavin find the tent. It is covered with hard snow. There is an ice axe stuck outside the front entrance. They use the ice ax to cut into the snow on top of the tent and make some slashes in the fabric so they can peer inside (which Pashin and Cheglakov should have done) to see if there are any people in there. There are no people. Looking in through the cuts, they make a quick mental inventory, but do not go in. Ortyukov gives instructions to leave the tent alone until he can get there.

February 27 - Bodies are discovered and the focus moves away from the tent.

February 28 - Officials return to the tent and, with witnesses present, take photos and enter the tent. The only pictures that we have show the snow in a strange formation on top of one side of the tent, heavy and mounded, like snow that has been shoveled into place and then patted down with the back side of a shovel.

There is no disagreement from my view point. There is only the reports and dates given by the the Dyatlov website.

I  wholeheartedly agree there is a lot of  discrepancy. I think I've mentioned it a few times along with others.

However , I appreciate your timeline . Pashin and Cheglakov are an oddity. It's speculation that you say they find the tent on the 24th, it has some merit but it is not fact..

Slobtsov and Sharavin did more than peer into the tent, they took stuff from the tent.there is no 'in' to the tent . It is collapsed at the discovery on the 26th. They either crawled inside  the tent from holes they made or pealed it open with the cuts that were already made.  One does not take stuff or alcohol with out checking the full tent for missing persons . They have to go in to the tent like crawling under a blanket or peel it open.

It's late in the afternoon that Slobtsov and Sharavin find the tent and there will be a delay to when Ortyukov received this information.

The tent has already been violated before he gives instruction not to touch it

I don't know where you get a a pile of snow patted down with the back side of a shovel....?.

[amashilu]

I don't know where you get a a pile of snow patted down with the back side of a shovel....?.

That is what it looks like to me, and I have read others see that also. That's all. Here is the section that looks like that, not like normal blown or fallen snow:

[Manti]

This is not how the tent was found. Only the top part of it was peeking out from the snow.

This photo is how it looked like after it was dug out. Chunks of snow thrown all around the place by the searchers as they were removing it from on top of the tent.

So it's not normal blown or fallen snow. But that doesn't mean there was a government coverup and the snow was placed there to cover footprints.

[Ziljoe]

I think it would be obvious to those at the time if the snow was unusual . None of the witnesses speak of anything strange.

To me , the snow around the pole looks normal blown snow. If they dug snow to cover the tent or cover foot prints the there would be unusual holes from where they dug the snow to cover foot prints. Anyone doing this would also leave evidence. Not only that , there would be nothing suspicious about there  being foot prints or marks being visible around the tent as the 9 hikers would be walking around the tent doing all sort of activities. There's no need to cover up foot prints where there was already 9 people.


The layers of snow show erosion. Over the whole winter season the snow levels and snow drifts will move. Even in 24 hours this will happen . So there was 3 weeks of snow, blown snow.

The torch for example could have been covered and exposed several times over three weeks.

[KathleenDSmith1]

Snow on the tent:

there are a lot of clues, that those who investigated didn't realize ...that evidence is open to all to see, even Pashin has two days, that two days, Pashin and others left evidence..look very closely in the middle of the Tent area...trek marks...either snowmobile or ski????

[KathleenDSmith1]

Snow on the Tent...


another image ...

[Ziljoe]

Snow on the tent:

there are a lot of clues, that those who investigated didn't realize ...that evidence is open to all to see, even Pashin has two days, that two days, Pashin and others left evidence..look very closely in the middle of the Tent area...trek marks...either snowmobile or ski????

I believe this photo was taken two days after the tent was first discovered. It is an important consideration when analysing the photo.

Firstly, we have to understand that whatever the snow on top of the tent was like , had been moved and the inside of the tent had been looked at. Secondly the first people at the tent said the used the axe to break the snow and possibly used a ski as a make shift shovel.

Unfortunately I don't think we can project anything on to this photo other than the tents rough location.

[Ziljoe]

Snow on the tent:

there are a lot of clues, that those who investigated didn't realize ...that evidence is open to all to see, even Pashin has two days, that two days, Pashin and others left evidence..look very closely in the middle of the Tent area...trek marks...either snowmobile or ski????

I believe this photo was taken two days after the tent was first discovered. It is an important consideration when analysing the photo.

Firstly, we have to understand that whatever the snow on top of the tent was like , had been moved and the inside of the tent had been looked at. Secondly the first people at the tent said the used the axe to break the snow and possibly used a ski as a make shift shovel.

Unfortunately I don't think we can project anything on to this photo other than the tents rough location.

To add, the photo looks different or manipulated to the two I can find on this website. The upsidedown ski pole sits higher with relation to the white snow bank behind it.

Saying that I might have missed the photo in the archives.

[Partorg]

To check the presence of bodies in the tent, it was not necessary to chop the tent with an ice pick.. The entrance was open. I have a suspicion that cutting the tent was a task from above. There is no other way to explain it. And Sharavin himself does not give any explanations about this.

Donna Anna, stop, as one of your countrymen would say: chasing a cockroach around the piano. First of all, the entrance was obstructed by a snowdrift. You can see it Do  in the photo. Secondly, Sharavin told that they did not want to climb into the tent through the entrance for fear of bumping into the completely dead deceased inside. Therefore they took an ingeniously simple decision - to tear off the roof of the tent and, if they were to meet the otherworldly, then in broad daylight and in a space suitable for a quick run. They tore off a little - three or four pieces which in the drawing by the expert Churkina look like two French windows in the wall of a Brazilian favela. What we see in the photo are the traces of their work. On some of the clumps you can even see the imprint of the seam reinforcing the joint between the two tents.
Thus, whoever and what has not yet written here, 100% of the truth will fall on what is written by Ziljoe

And the words of prosecutor Tempalov: "No one entered the tent before me" should be understood as an attempt to convince his conscience that he nevertheless instructed the search engines how to handle material evidence, and she (conscience, that is) simply forgot about it

[WAB]

I don't know where you get a a pile of snow patted down with the back side of a shovel....?.

That is what it looks like to me, and I have read others see that also. That's all. Here is the section that looks like that, not like normal blown or fallen snow:

There is nothing special about this state of snow around the tent. Everything obeys well the laws of aerodynamics and snow deposition from the action of the wind.
This pile, which is marked with a red outline on your picture https://i.ibb.co/F3XTrD9/snow.png , arose from the transfer of snow from the north side, which is much rarer there than usual - from the west. But it is usually stronger and can bring a lot of snow in a short time. Theoretically, this is deposition behind a solid wall, roughly in this pattern:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1CKLCipvMLRCYdP5Kje5MRtuxPYUao5Ui/view?usp=sharing

This is a typical case for such snow deposition.
If you look at the practical experiment created in 2014, everything completely coincides, both with what was in 1959 (as in your picture), and with what is drawn theoretically.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/101BvMysL4uQm1w3hZK8czMf4qitNYF9F/view

This is what it was just after the installation of a similar layout in February 2014,

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1g6aWYv3sFHqS4Ze7ZG4_1-JEikeGR93j/view

And this is what we got after 3 weeks after that, in March 2014.

So, there is absolutely no surprise that there was such a pile, or how much or what quality of snow there is.