Two events instead of one

[amashilu]

Last night, it occurred to me that all this time, I've been trying to explain this tragedy as being caused by one event. But no one event explains everything — hence, the mystery. So why not two events occurring the same night?

Just as an example, some have suggested there were conflicts with some of the resident men at the initial stops along the route, maybe involving Lyuda and leading to her depressed mood the next couple days, and that one of these conflicts led to some of these resentful men following the hikers with the intention of fighting and/or killing them. For the sake of argument, let's just say this happened.

The second event could be Zolotaryev's special mission as explained in my theory "Working Backwards" (https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=1148.0).

Let's say Zolotaryev and Tibo were outside that night to conduct the experiment, equipment set up, camera on a makeshift tripod, notebook and pencil in pocket to record the event, and suddenly -- these killers appear. The killers order everyone else out of the tent, leaving their jackets and shoes behind, since the intention is to freeze them to death, and march everyone down to the cedar area. Some are murdered along the way, such as Slobodin, who resists and is butted with a rifle in the head.

Zolotaryev and Tibo necessarily take their experimental equipment with them. At some point, Zolotaryev's experiment happens; maybe he initiates it on purpose or maybe it's an accident that occurs while he is in combat with one of the killers -- and there is an explosion, accounting for his and Lyuda's injuries.

The killers finally go back to the tent, where they entertain themselves for the night by sharpening a stick, cutting holes in the tent to keep an eye out for any hiker trying to come back, eat, and drink alcohol. (I recall someone who was among the first finders of the tent saying that when they looked inside, it smelled like alcohol.)

Apologies, this is not well thought-out, but I want to introduce the idea that there were two events that unexpectedly occurred simultaneously that night instead of one, and maybe someone else can do a better job of thinking it through.

[Jean Daniel Reuss]

Last night, it occurred to me that all this time, I've been trying to explain this tragedy as being caused by one event. But no one event explains everything — hence, the mystery. So why not two events occurring the same night?

Just as an example, some have suggested there were conflicts with some of the resident men at the initial stops along the route, maybe involving Lyuda and leading to her depressed mood the next couple days, and that one of these conflicts led to some of these resentful men following the hikers with the intention of fighting and/or killing them. For the sake of argument, let's just say this happened.

The second event could be Zolotaryev's special mission as explained in my theory "Working Backwards" (https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=1148.0).

Let's say Zolotaryev and Tibo were outside that night to conduct the experiment, equipment set up, camera on a makeshift tripod, notebook and pencil in pocket to record the event, and suddenly -- these killers appear. The killers order everyone else out of the tent, leaving their jackets and shoes behind, since the intention is to freeze them to death, and march everyone down to the cedar area. Some are murdered along the way, such as Slobodin, who resists and is butted with a rifle in the head.

Zolotaryev and Tibo necessarily take their experimental equipment with them. At some point, Zolotaryev's experiment happens; maybe he initiates it on purpose or maybe it's an accident that occurs while he is in combat with one of the killers -- and there is an explosion, accounting for his and Lyuda's injuries.

The killers finally go back to the tent, where they entertain themselves for the night by sharpening a stick, cutting holes in the tent to keep an eye out for any hiker trying to come back, eat, and drink alcohol. (I recall someone who was among the first finders of the tent saying that when they looked inside, it smelled like alcohol.)

Apologies, this is not well thought-out, but I want to introduce the idea that there were two events that unexpectedly occurred simultaneously that night instead of one, and maybe someone else can do a better job of thinking it through.

some have suggested there were conflicts with some of the resident men at the initial stops along the route, maybe involving Lyuda and leading to her depressed mood the next couple days, and that one of these conflicts led to some of these resentful men following the hikers with the intention of fighting and/or killing them...................

This is the theory of Aleks Kandr, see (in Russian, it is long to read, these Russian authors are verbose).
http://mystery12home.ru/t-ub-gr-dyatlova
https://taina.li/forum/index.php?topic=1002.0
Aleks Kandr's theory seems to be consistent with sabine's comments
(Sabine Lechtenfeld, forensic psychologist from Hannover, Germany).
https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=433.msg5845#msg5845
https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=433.msg5873#msg5873

The killers order everyone else out of the tent.........................

My favourite explanation is
They launched a kind of dope inside".
"Current chemistry informs us that there are dozens of possibilities for the "kind of dope".

The killers order everyone march everyone down to the cedar area................

The descent down to the cedar area seems to me to be the most difficult point to explain
It is possible that the killers lit the fire under the cedar in order to attract the hikers to a false first aid post.

Some are murdered along the way, such as Slobodin....................

I think that Kolmogorova (550 m from the cedar) and Slobodin (450 m from the cedar) were knocked out and killed on the way down (so a few minutes after leaving the tent) while the other 7 continued (to reach the fire which was then close by) without noticing that Kolmogorova and Slobodin were missing.
You can see here the advantage of big sticks that strike silently. In contrast to firearms, whose characteristic high noise would have immediately made the hikers realise that the situation represented a deadly danger for them and that this was not a joke.

accounting for his and Lyuda's injuries. .............

Zolotaryev's and Lyuda's injuries are consistent with jumps on the chest of a body lying on the snowy ground.
100 kilograms falling from 1 metre corresponds to an energy of 1000 joules.
To remove the eyes, all that is needed is a small spoon with previously sharpened edges.

The killers finally go back to the tent, where they entertain themselves for the night.................

The killers finally go back to the tent, also to rest and warm up, while the hikers gradually weakened in the cold.

Zolotaryev and Tibo necessarily take their experimental equipment with them.............

The hypothesis of an experimental equipment in charge of Zolotaryev and Tibo seems to me superfluous (and even unlikely).
More simply, that evening, Zolotaryev and Tibo were checking that the tent was properly secured (very useful in case of unexpected gusts of wind).

I want to introduce the idea that there were two events that unexpectedly occurred simultaneously that night instead of one...........

Why two events? The surprise attack by a well-determined troika : "to take the lives of the nine" is enough to explain everything.

[amashilu]

Jean Daniel writes:

I think that Kolmogorova (550 m from the cedar) and Slobodin (450 m from the cedar) were knocked out and killed on the way down (so a few minutes after leaving the tent) while the other 7 continued (to reach the fire which was then close by) without noticing that Kolmogorova and Slobodin were missing.
The killers finally go back to the tent, also to rest and warm up, while the hikers gradually weakened in the cold.

I agree with you that Kolmogorova and Slobodin were struck on the way down, not trying to make their way back.

I agree with you too that the killers went back to the tent to rest and warm up.

I never thought of the killers jumping on the chests! Could that cause the terrible injuries that have been likened to a bomb or a high-speed car crash?

I proposed 2 events because when not one of the proposed theories for the last 60 years can account for everything, with thousands of people studying it the world over, well, maybe two unlikely events happened. Truth is stranger than fiction.

[amashilu]

Jean Daniel, your theory is intriguing to me.
The stubborn 60-year silence of the Russian government and missing evidence that they still don't share seems to me to be a key to what happened. In your theory, why will the government not produce evidence and not explain truthfully? For example, if the event were an avalanche, they probably would not cover it up.

[Jean Daniel Reuss]

.......................
I never thought of the killers jumping on the chests
.................

Yet it seems to me that this is a simple way, as it does not require any special preparation or equipment.
Human ribs are relatively thinner and less resistant than other bones like the femur.
  So it seems to me that a rib must break when it takes the equivalent of a 100 kg man voluntarily falling 1 m (1000 joules).
I confess that I have not really tested this.

.......................
Could that cause the terrible injuries that have been likened to a bomb
.................

A bomb would have left many other clues or marks (traces) of explosion.

.......................
a high-speed car crash?
.................

I do not think that there exists a snow vehicle capable of moving quickly at night on an unprepared slope.
https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=708.msg10731#msg10731

................................
I proposed 2 events because when not one of the proposed theories for the last 60 years can account for everything, with thousands of people studying it the world over, well, maybe two unlikely events happened. Truth is stranger than fiction.

You are demanding! Many authors have proposed explanatory theories that take into account all known facts.
(Clearly, in each case some of the facts are contradictory to others, so some have to be discarded).
Igor Pavlov and Teddy, anna_pycckux, Per Inge Oestmoen, Rakitin, Aleks Kandr and others.
In Russian language I will see also on :
https://taina.li/forum/index.php?board=112.0

................................
I proposed 2 events because when not one of the proposed theories for the last 60 years can account for everything, with thousands of people studying it the world over, well, maybe two unlikely events happened. Truth is stranger than fiction.

Nine people discovered dead, in the same isolated location and apparently on the same night, you have to admit  that it is not illogical to think that there was a single cause for these 9 deaths.
But if you can construct a complete explanatory theory involving two independent primary causes simultaneously it would be interesting.

There have been proposals involving two events, for example:
"Combining the ball lightning and nuclear weapon theories."
Started by Nigel Evans on March 09, 2019, 07:10:21 PM « 1 2 »
https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=380.0

................................
The stubborn 60-year silence of the Russian government and missing evidence that they still don't share seems to me to be a key to what happened. In your theory, why will the government not produce evidence and not explain truthfully? .................

This would be to admit that a large number of small and important Soviet state officials had become sadistic perverts.
This was quite clearly recognised by Khrushchev in his secret report to the 20th Congress in 1956.
But the following leaders Brezhnev, Andropov, Yeltsin, Putin want to hide a truth that would tarnish the image of their beloved Russia.

..............................................................
 For example, if the event were an avalanche, they probably would not cover it up.

Yes ! If the event were an avalanche, they certainly would not cover it up.

[amashilu]

Human ribs are relatively thinner and less resistant than other bones like the femur.
  So it seems to me that a rib must break when it takes the equivalent of a 100 kg man voluntarily falling 1 m (1000 joules).
I confess that I have not really tested this.

I'm glad you have not.