My book The clue to the Dyatlov Pass (after 64 years) En/Ru:Разгадка спустя 64г.

[Axelrod]

As I remember educational films they always had narrow film (16 mm).

- Dyatlov group arrived to 41th settlement with truck which transported 3 movies (~30 cans with films).

- They (or some of them) had spend a night in a room of driver, according their diaries.

- Cimema film might be found in abandoned Second Northern mining settlement like a garbage (old movies e.g.with Stalin are garbage). We know, Yury Yudin found there materian for museum, so Igor possibly found something for himself.

They had problems with fire with moist woods so they possibly took material for inflammation, according manuals for tourists.

--

Your theories about UPI stidio is an imagiantion as explanation. You imagine something and present it as a fact.

 We know count of photo frames made during 9 days. They has about 9-10 unused photo films with 36 empty frames till end of their treck. Cimema film was definetely in separate can, not with money and photo films. It is mistake of investiogatoins that it was together with money. Protocol was written by handwriting of journalist Yury Yarovoy, not Tempalov. Only Tempalov's supscription was there.

Your explanations maybe are from Interview-2013 with Sharavin https://dyatlovpass.com/sharavin-2

MP: A sealed can of film that allegedly rolled out of the tent. What was it like? Was it round and flat, like a washer? Or another kind? And what was its diameter approximately?

MSh: I have not seen the can in which the film was found. At that time, hikers often used film in cameras for photographing.

MP: They say that scraps of film were found 15 meters below the tent. Yudin suggests that they could have taken pictures there.

MSh: I also heard that from Yudin.

MP: Mihail Petrovich, do you know the name of the Prosecutor Tempalov, who, they say, also took part in the search? Did you meet with him?

MSh: I met with Tempalov only once - on the 28th during the dismantling of the tent. I can't say anything about him.

---

This was said by men which did not have neither photo cameras nor watches, nor binoculars in 1959. They may imagine everything.

[eurocentric]

I doubt the hikers would load their own film cassettes from an unexposed 200-300m reel of 35mm film. And that length would be good for 181 x 36-exposure films, producing 6516 images, and, at the rate they were taking photo's, an average of 13 per day, it would mean they had 501 days supply. 

I used to buy bulk 35mm film to load my own cassettes, and do the processing, and the loading and unloading is a fiddly business if done manually; you need to practice how to do this in the light because you'll need to load the cassettes (and later unload them to put the exposed film onto the spindle of a developing tank) in complete darkness, using either a darkroom or a changing bag. Inside the tent on a moonless night might just about do it, but it's not a clean atmosphere, and their fingers would be cold, dirty and damp.

The other way is to use a bulk film loader, which I eventually purchased, assuming the Soviet Union had them in '59, and the reel of film would be housed in that, not a metal movie/cine reel can, but here we'd be adding more missing and uninventoried equipment to the hike.

So, running with this theory - there was no movie or cine camera (?), only an exposed & developed movie reel housed inside a can which was sourced at the 41st Settlement and this was carried for 9 days to be used as a firelighter (8 or 9lbs of additional weight), and then it accidentally ignited inside the tent on 1079, releasing noxious fumes, and so a hiker cut a 'letter box' slot the same size as a burning film can so that he/she could post it outside, the questions still remain:

Why did this event cause the hikers to abandon their tent when they could easily ventilate it once the emergency was over?

If they had to leave what prevented them taking all that they needed to survive away from it?

Why wasn't there any burn or scorch marks inside the tent, especially around the slot cut from the inside to push the burning can outside - an area which was forensically examined at microscopic level?

[Axelrod]

 (8 or 9lbs of additional weight)
I think mass was <1kg. If we imagine 10 cans (100 minutes of movie) - they are not so heavy as i remember.

They may have put a lid on the jar (can) when using the 'letter box'. It is also possible that there was a lot of smoke and a small fire, or the fire was extinguished with water, which led to the formation of nitric acid fumes HNO3. Now I discover informantion about HCN (it will be added to book).

Participants who had already graduated from the institute, they behaved more sensibly and found their shoes. These are instructor Zoloaryov (who even took a camera) and Thibeaux-Brignolles. Tourist Slobodin, who worked only 4 months, found only shoes for 1 foot. The rest were students and were very frightened. Maybe they thought they'd be back soon but this did not work out due to poisoning.

[Partorg]

Группа Дятлова прибыла в населенный пункт 41 на грузовике, который перевозил 3 фильма (~30 банок с фильмами).

- Согласно их дневникам, они (или некоторые из них) провели ночь в комнате водителя.

- Кинопленку можно найти в заброшенном Втором Северном шахтерском поселке как мусор (старые фильмы

 So the projectionist's jar was stolen?
Or in the abandoned settlement of geologists 2nd Severny was not only a warehouse of geological samples, but also a warehouse of works of cinema? And you are not funny from such assumptions?
Colleague,  firstli, k/films could be store and disposed of only where the organs were the bodies authorized to make decisions on their withdrawal from operation were located. In the regional capital, that is. And nowhere else.
Secondly, it would never occur to any normal tourist to carryng on backs from ≥1.14 kg (reel 120 m) to ~ 3.5 kg (300 m) kindling, to places where ideal kindling (birch bark) is at every step.
I don’t even want to talk about who you need to be to set fire to the film inside the tent.
And the idea that after that you can leave without shoes and outerwear to spend the night in the winter forest will not visit everyone either.
But - it’s beautiful to live you won’t forbid it.  Write more.

Participants who had already graduated from the institute, they behaved more sensibly and found their shoes. These are instructor Zoloaryov (who even took a camera) and Thibeaux-Brignolles. Tourist Slobodin, who worked only 4 months, found only shoes for 1 foot.

Somehow it is not entirely clear what exactly makes a person so reasonable - a completed higher education, or subsequent work experience in a specialty ...  Ok. We will keep in mind.

[Partorg]

I doubt the hikers would load their own film cassettes from an unexposed 200-300m reel of 35mm film.

They had 4 or 5 cameras. If one of them before the trip suddenly had the opportunity to get a reel of film for free in order to have "unlimited traffic" when shooting, then why not take advantage of this. Rewinding film from a reel to a working cassette presents no difficulty. This can be done even in an impromptu bag made from a jacket.  Develop films, no one was engaged in field conditions.

[Axelrod]

Or in the abandoned settlement of geologists 2nd Severny was not only a warehouse of geological samples, but also a warehouse of works of cinema? And you are not funny from such assumptions?

If they watched 3 movies in small 41th settlement, why 2nd Northern is worse? Amount of houses seems the same....

Colleague,  firstli, k/films could be store and disposed of only where the organs were the bodies authorized to make decisions on their withdrawal from operation were located. In the regional capital, that is. And nowhere else.

Please read from https://dyatlovpass.com/yuri-yudin-diary
27 We spent the night in the hut of the 2nd Northern settlement. There are so many houses, warehouses, premises, forgotten old vehicles, machine tools. Everything was abandoned since 1952.
If they leaver machine tools(!), so why they should transport old cinema bobines during 500 km to Sverdlovsk?
Heavy, as you suppose.

Secondly, it would never occur to any normal tourist to carryng on backs from ≥1.14 kg (reel 120 m) to ~ 3.5 kg (300 m) kindling,

pelase  multilpy 1.14 kg by 2.5 (i.e. 300m/120m) You obtain 2,85 kg, not 3.5 kg. Where are you wrong?
I have weithtenef about meter of color and grey diafilm and obtained 6-7 g per meter. My Bookmark from real cinema film is inappropriate for weighting.... Grey diafilm appeared a little heavier than color onr. But both are possibly Triacetate, I don't know about Nitrocellulose... Maybe 5 g per meter. So 500-700 g per 100m. Where you obtained 1,14kg for 120m&

[eurocentric]

I doubt the hikers would load their own film cassettes from an unexposed 200-300m reel of 35mm film.

They had 4 or 5 cameras. If one of them before the trip suddenly had the opportunity to get a reel of film for free in order to have "unlimited traffic" when shooting, then why not take advantage of this. Rewinding film from a reel to a working cassette presents no difficulty. This can be done even in an impromptu bag made from a jacket.  Develop films, no one was engaged in field conditions.

This does not compute. In your suggestion, either they needed to have a supply of empty film cassettes to load this roll of film into, when none of them were known to have the skills to do so (and surely they'd take UPI-preloaded cassettes instead of carrying around enough film for 6000+ photographs), or they'd have to remove the exposed film from the cassettes they had when photographs had been taken in order to reload them with fresh film.

Then they'd need to store these smaller rolls of exposed film, without damaging the emulsion, without touching either side with fingers or allowing it to be scratched, and keeping it outside of the ideal light and dustproof box (cassette or camera) where it ran the risk of it being re-exposed.

[eurocentric]

(8 or 9lbs of additional weight)
I think mass was <1kg. If we imagine 10 cans (100 minutes of movie) - they are not so heavy as i remember.

They may have put a lid on the jar (can) when using the 'letter box'. It is also possible that there was a lot of smoke and a small fire, or the fire was extinguished with water, which led to the formation of nitric acid fumes HNO3. Now I discover informantion about HCN (it will be added to book).

Participants who had already graduated from the institute, they behaved more sensibly and found their shoes. These are instructor Zoloaryov (who even took a camera) and Thibeaux-Brignolles. Tourist Slobodin, who worked only 4 months, found only shoes for 1 foot. The rest were students and were very frightened. Maybe they thought they'd be back soon but this did not work out due to poisoning.

I have since read suggestion in another forum that the weight of 300m of 35mm film, reel and can, would be 5lbs - so 2.27kgs. Even so, that's still the equivalent of a couple of bags of sugar to carry around as firelighters when they already had diary pages, the Crocodile magazine (and possibly others already used for this purpose), cardboard and alcohol for the same purpose.

They had jettisoned unnecessary weight in a labaz ahead of the ascent, and with all their preparation seemed to be planning to make it to Otorten and back in one day, so why did they need to take this combustible cine film to use as a firelighter when, unless they dropped down to a forest, there'd be no need for this to start a campfire.

If this cine film was intended to light the stove that bit faster they didn't need to take the whole of it, and this would require the stove to be set up, for wood to be present when most witnesses said there wasn't any.

If they ever had this cine film it would have made more sense for it to be stored in the labaz, not carted up 1079, and take only some of it with them inside the stove.

[Partorg]

This does not compute. In your suggestion, either they needed to have a supply of empty film cassettes to load this roll of film into, when none of them were known to have the skills to do so (and surely they'd take UPI-preloaded cassettes instead of carrying around enough film for 6000+ photographs), or they'd have to remove the exposed film from the cassettes they had when photographs had been taken in order to reload them with fresh film.

Then they'd need to store these smaller rolls of exposed film, without damaging the emulsion, without touching either side with fingers or allowing it to be scratched, and keeping it outside of the ideal light and dustproof box (cassette or camera) where it ran the risk of it being re-exposed.

First, you were imagining problems that were unrealistic. Films can be rolled from cassettes, wrapped in black paper and stored for as long as needed.
Secondly, you still have to choose one of the two, either this is photographic material, or this is kindling for the stove.
Or come up with something third

[Partorg]

If they leaver machine tools(!), so why they should transport old cinema bobines during 500 km to Sverdlovsk?

Unlike machine tools and automobiles, films were not handled by the Northern Expedition, but by the Directorates of Cinematography of the Culture Departments of the executive committees. They had their own rules. Film mechanics were obliged to return worn-out films to the department's warehouse, where they were written off and destroyed

Maybe 5 g per meter. So 500-700 g per 100m. Where you obtained 1,14kg for 120m&

https://sreda.photo/goods/kodak_5203_35mm

Colleague...
For some exceptional occasion you can carry a meter-long skein in your pocket, but to carry kilos of kindling for the fire through the taiga, you have to be an complete idiot.
As Comrade Ankudinov from the "taina li" says: "Don't judge other people by yourself - bound to be wrong!"

[Axelrod]

So, you believe that they carry 200-300 meters of film for making abstract photos (that is technically hardly impossible) ant transport them 500 km from Scerdlovsk, but you dot't belive that they carry THE SAME kilograms for making a fire and transport them only 50 km.

Very strange ideas in your head!

[Partorg]

Photos are not abstract. They are quite realistic. But kilograms of kindling on the back and in taiga, where the kindling surrounds you from all sides is definitely surrealism.

[Axelrod]

1) https://meganorm.ru/Data2/1/4294851/4294851600.htm

При сгорании нитроцеллюлозной киноплёнки на открытом воздухе образуются ядовитые газообразные продукты горения: окись углерода и окислы азота.

При полном сгорании 1 кг нитроцеллюлозной киноплёнки при температуре 1100 градусов Цельсия и нормальном давлении выделяется около 4,4 куб.м газообразных продуктов горения.

При неполном сгорании 1 кг нитроцеллюлозной киноплёнки образуется около 7-12г синильной кислоты.

When nitrocellulose film is burned in the open air, toxic combustion gases are formed: carbon monoxide and nitrogen oxides.

With the complete combustion of 1 kg of nitrocellulose film at a temperature of 1100 degrees Celsius and normal pressure, about 4.4 cubic meters of combustion gases are released.

With incomplete combustion of 1 kg of nitrocellulose film, about 7-12 g of hydrocyanic acid is formed.

2) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_cyanide


A hydrogen cyanide concentration of 100–200 ppm in breathing air will kill a human within 10 to 60 minutes.[61] A hydrogen cyanide concentration of 2000 ppm (about 2380 mg/m3) will kill a human in about one minute.[61] The toxic effect is caused by the action of the cyanide ion, which halts cellular respiration. It acts as a non-competitive inhibitor for an enzyme in mitochondria called cytochrome c oxidase. As such, hydrogen cyanide is commonly listed among chemical weapons as a blood agent.

Концентрация цианистого водорода 100–200 частей на миллион в воздухе для дыхания убьёт человека в течение 10–60 минут. [61] Цианистый водород с концентрацией 2000 частей на миллион (около 2380 мг/м 3 ) убьёт человека примерно за одну минуту. [61] Токсический эффект обусловлен действием иона цианида, который останавливает клеточное дыхание . Он действует как неконкурентный ингибитор фермента в митохондриях, называемого цитохром-с-оксидазой . Таким образом, цианистый водород обычно причисляют к химическому оружию как отравляющее кровь средство.

[eurocentric]

This does not compute. In your suggestion, either they needed to have a supply of empty film cassettes to load this roll of film into, when none of them were known to have the skills to do so (and surely they'd take UPI-preloaded cassettes instead of carrying around enough film for 6000+ photographs), or they'd have to remove the exposed film from the cassettes they had when photographs had been taken in order to reload them with fresh film.

Then they'd need to store these smaller rolls of exposed film, without damaging the emulsion, without touching either side with fingers or allowing it to be scratched, and keeping it outside of the ideal light and dustproof box (cassette or camera) where it ran the risk of it being re-exposed.

First, you were imagining problems that were unrealistic. Films can be rolled from cassettes, wrapped in black paper and stored for as long as needed.
Secondly, you still have to choose one of the two, either this is photographic material, or this is kindling for the stove.
Or come up with something third

I don't have to choose between the two, I think it was neither. It's you and Axelrod who are having that debate. I've already suggested a third, that if there ever was a cine film can it was simply an empty one used to store preloaded film cassettes inside, and suggested that the film leaders would not be enough to generate a substantial fire in that can, and that they would self-extinguish when the metal cassette's light/dust trap was reached.

Your ideas that exposed film can be removed from a cassette and the cassette reloaded from a reel of film by inexperienced people inside the dark confines of a jacket, and then wrapped in black paper and carted around on a hike without damaging the film emulsion ahead of developing, is nonsense.

[Axelrod]

Or come up with something third

FIlm with 14400 secret snapshot pages for American spy from CIA. Definitely, more valuable material than radioactive pants and sweater (in Rakitins version). But I don't develop this version.

[Partorg]

FIlm with 14400 secret snapshot pages for American spy from CIA. Definitely, more valuable material than radioactive pants and sweater

Without any doubt.

But I don't develop this version.

In vain.
Because there, as it turned out, a more sensible use of those kilograms is supposed than what you suggested earlier.

[Partorg]

Your ideas that exposed film can be removed from a cassette and the cassette reloaded from a reel of film by inexperienced people inside the dark confines of a jacket, and then wrapped in black paper and carted around on a hike without damaging the film emulsion ahead of developing, is nonsense.

As you wish, but once upon a time  I did it more than once, not even suspecting that it was can't to do so

I've already suggested a third, that if there ever was a cine film can it was simply an empty one used to store preloaded film cassettes inside

The idea is good, but the witness G. Atmanaki is unlikely to agree with it. During the interrogation on 07.04.1959, he testified that he had seen a box of fotofilms in the tent, and a roll of cinemafilm 15 meters away.

But in any case, the clarification of this issue can hardly give a clue to understanding the cause of the entire incident as a whole.