Tent dimensions

[GlennM]

This is the tent as it was discovered. Tell me, how can nine bundled up well fed people and their gear fit inside that space? Four perhaps with a squeeze, but nine? People sleep laying down.

[Ziljoe]

By the way, it was meant to be ten people. 55cm shoulder room minimum?

[GlennM]

The two witnesses in the photo would barely fit. We know from the reconstructed tent, that is was lengthier. It is good to appreciate that photos are two dimensional representation of three dimensional objects. This is why photos of the tent, ravine or the woods themselves are usually skewed to a degree. It complicates our investigative efforts.

[Олег Таймень]

This is the tent as it was discovered. Tell me, how can nine bundled up well fed people and their gear fit inside that space? Four perhaps with a squeeze, but nine? People sleep laying down.

Even 12 people can fit in

[GlennM]

I recently looked at thr four images of the tent pn DyatlovPass.com. and what I find remarkable is the sheer amount of damage to the side of the tent the camera was on. I can not speak to the damage, if any that happened when the tent was helicoptered out of the area. Instead, when I look at the photos, it seems overkill to have so much of the tent savaged form the purpose of escape. I do not know why, but when I look at those photos, I think of how Jack the Ripper lingered over his victims. For people who needed to leave the area, it just looks like more time, effort and possibly knives were used to open a hole in the fabric that could be better used grabbing boots and blankets by the tourists!

Although the tent was finally thrown out after it all but rotted, there is nothing like blood, tree debris, animal odor or fire scorch to suggest that anything other than big snow made them leave the tent and area.

If nothing else, once they made mincemeat out of that shelter, their expedition must have been over. Could they really expect to continue to Ortoten, round it and come back the same way, collect their gear, collect their cache and shuffle downhill all the way to Vizhay and home? I'll wager that they were just bold enough to believe they could do it without a tent. That is hubris and hubris may have been the death of them all, sadly.

[Arjan]

Studying the photos retrieved from the films found by the first search party and the photos made by the first search party, two dimensions of the tent are of interest.

First dimensions of the tent in use before the ascend to the last camp site

The first dimensions of the tent as used by the complete Dyatlov group are available on the website dyatlovpass.com under:
https://dyatlovpass.com/1959-search?flp=1#the-tent

The dimensions are: 4 meters long and 1.8 meters width. These dimension fit a group of 8 to 10 group members. During a cold night they ought to sleep 'spoonwise' in order to keep themselves warm during the cold night. Of course it is rather tight with all gear inside.

Second dimensions of the tent found standing on one pole (Ski pole?)



Personally I sincerely take into account that the tent had been compressed by the overpressure of a blast wave high in the air during a few milliseconds. After this tiny period of overpressure, the tent had been inflated like balloon by the period of underpressure. After the group members inside the tent had recovered from the blast wave, they had cut themselves out of the tent in panic.

After recovery standing outside in a temporary 'white out' - caused by the underpressure - they had re-erected the tent on one pole for emergency shelter for two or three group members.

This photo made by one member of the first search party show:
- a very probably re-erected tent standing on one pole, that may arguably have been a broken skipole (see arguably the lower part of the broken pole between the person on the photo and the tent)

This probably re-erected tent provides an excellent emergency bivac for two or three persons, who may have easily survived a cold night - covered by many blankets while lying huddled together in the length dimension of the tent. The heads of these two or three group members who had spent the fatal night for the others may probably have been oriented to the opening of the tent near the broken? tent pole.

Remark: the other group members had not survived the cold night while staying in the ravine or near the cedar (both Yuris).   

[GlennM]

I would need more convincing regarding overpressure. For me, overpressure would be associated with ear bleeds, blowdown of the tent and a scouring of the snow in the area of overpressure. What more can you add?

[Arjan]

The following details - as found by the search parties - may well be caused by a blast wave:

1. Yuri Dor found with: 'right cheek soft tissue covered with gray foam; gray liquid coming from his open mouth. Most apparent cause is pulmonary edema'. Pulmonary edema may be caused by a blast wave. See: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/1807045/

2. Comparing the photos of Semyon and Lyudmila show that Semyon had been found with a fully deformed ribcase, while Lyudmila is seen on the photo in th e mortuary without hardly any deformation of her ribcase while her ribcage had been fatal within 30 minutes or so. Personally I can only explain her undeformed ribcage by being compressed by a high speed passing blast wave with an overpressure during a few milliseconds (compressing her ribcage) followed by an underpressure during a second or so causing an inflation of her ribcage beyond its normal size. After the passing of the blast wave her ribcage appears undamaged, but the internal fractures had caused fatal bleedings.

3. Less convincing: most group members had descended on socks to the ravine due to an icy surface caused by refrozen snow that had melted by the passing pressure wave. Socks provide a better grip on icy surfaces than boots or felt boots.

4. (May have different causes) the passing blast wave had compressed the tent on the group members in the tent for several millisecond. The underpressure had lifted the tent like an inflated balloon for a second or so. In panic the group members in the tent had cut themselves out of the tent.

Unfortunately the post mortem reports don't mention an outcome of otiscopy (at that time: looking inside the outer eartube with a concave mirror with a hole in the middle). If I remember well, the post mortem had been performed under full supervision of non-medical officials.

[GlennM]

Thanks for the reply. Do you have an idea of the source of the pressure wave? Do you feel it was naturally caused by snow movement, or do you prefer a man made source? If you feel it was man made, what have you discovered that reinforces your position in the matter?

I seems to me that such a pressure wave, if man made would be accompanied by heat and light.

[Arjan]

Yesterday I have omitted to add a 5th detail that may well be caused by a blast wave:

5. a. The post mortem report of Zinaida states: 'There is a very pronounced venous system on the legs and feet.' A photo of Zinaida in bikini - standing in cold water - before the hike, doesn't show any sign of pronounced venous system on her legs!

5. b. The photos of Yuri Dor in the mortuary a very pronounced venous system on his underarms.

'The intensity of the pressure changes from the blast can cause injury to the blood vessels'. Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blast_injury

Personally I take into account that the high speed blast wave had been caused by:
1. a meteor of limited size blasting high in the sky
2. a very powerfull man made high speed explosive that had blasted high in the air.

Explosives/meteors blasting high in the sky cause blast waves that are 40 % reflected by the ground. In case Lyudmila and Semyon had been standing in the ravine, the shape of the ravine had acted as a concave lense for the pressure wave, causing an increase of the original pressure of around 100 %. This may well be the cause that only Lyudmila and Semyon had been found with broken ribcages.

See further: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blast_wave

Remark: Aerodynamics is a branche of fluid dynamics. One of the classic titles about aerodynamics of wings etc. is: 'Fluid Dynamic Drag' 

[Osi]

On a deserted and treeless slope; How would you feel if an apple hit your tent in the dark? This situation is more than a stress that can be overcome with the control of a few people. It results in a mass exodus to understand the situation. The group encountered more. A force equivalent to hundreds of crates of apples was dragged onto their tent, and in the midst of their joyous gathering, the icy tent collapsed. The tent was not buried under the snow. A pole broke. They were stunned, as if they had been punched by a champion boxer. If they needed to be taken out of the tent (kgb, mansi), they would go out by opening the buttons. A flashlight above the tent and on the path was unforgettable. The young people would definitely resist there and would not enter the forest. Instead of orderly traces, there would be traces of chaos. I watched hundreds of videos about Kholat visits. Everyone looks at the forest from the tent and spends time on the monumental rock. Considering the snow movement, which is one of the most important versions of this tragedy, cameras are never turned towards the Kholat summit. I asked many tourists vacationing in Turkey about this tragedy. Many people think this is due to the government and see this as a good reason not to look at the top.

[GlennM]

Much earlier in my participation in the forum, I thought it might be soviet jets doing night time training flights. Whether they dropped flares or dumb bombs it would be enough reason for the hikers to " bug out" of their tent and get away. However, nobody has turned up records pertaining to Soviet military flights on the night in question. I have since dismissed the idea in favor of a natural cause. Igor was warned by the forester about the conditions on the slope. They went anyway. Bad things happen to good people, unfortunately.

[GlennM]

Regarding this image. When the tent was initially discovered, an ice pick was used to make a tear in the tent in order for Slobtsov to look inside. Why? The diagram shows the tent was pretty well savaged. It is canon that the hikers cut their way out. Something is very wrong here. Large tears in the tent would allow easy access for inspection. Those same tears would result in a snow pile within the tent. This would to be excavated in order to find bodies. The written record shows nothing of the sort happened. If the snow under the flashlight on the tent is any indication, snow did fall after the tent was emptied.

Is a possible explanation that the large tears in the tent happened after the hikers left? Was the tent torn into by the recovery team? Was the tent torn when it was packed for transport?

For me, if I were discovering the tent, I would 1. Call out. 2. Enter by the front flap 3. Cut my way in. But, if thentent was already ruined, I would just look inside.

Add to this that both Zina and Zolo mended the tent. Add to this that two were already outside of tent ( better dressd) when they left for the woods.
If those two dug toward the side of the tent while others cut from inside, a snow slide makes sense.

[Arjan]

Personally I take into account that the tent had been fully frozen found by the first search party. This may well have resulted that the opening of the tent had to be defrosted from the ice between both tent canvasses at the opening. It is quite logic that a member of the search party had torn the tent canvas to get a quick access to the inside of the tent.

I remember that one author about this case has stated that the shorter cuts on the eye level had been made to have a view from the inside to the tent to the cedar/ravine area.

If this statement is correct, then there are five details found by the first search party that hint on a communication channel between the tent and the cedar/ravine area:
1. The shorter cuts on the eye level;
2. The flash light on top of the tent for sending morse code to the cedar/ravine area, or intending to indicate the direction to the tent for group members returning from cedar/ravine area;
3. The flash light - switched on - found in the middle between the tent and the cedar/ravine area, intended as beacon halfway for group members returning from cedar/ravine area;
4. Yuri Dor and/or Yuri Kri climbing the cedar to have a direct view from an opening between the branches in the cedar in the direction to the tent area. (The same author had stated this detail)
5. The smoke from campfire near the cedar. Remark: smoke from a campfire can be smelled over a long distance with a tiny wind.   

[GlennM]

This interesting train of thought may suppose that there was sufficient reason to break up the hiking party into groups. It suggests that footprints were an insufficient guide back to the tent. It supposes that the duration of the flashlight(s) batteries would be adequate for the task at hand. Further, a flashlight switched on upon the ground could be seen at a distance, obviously at night. It argues that climbing the cedar in icy conditions was worth the risk. To climb the cedar and spot the flashlight might mean the actual tent was too far or cloaked in a foggy mist. It raises the question, "what was worth the trek to the woods and back?"  It explains the having of cuts on the tent for viewing the distant woods. Since this was the case, then it must have been too inclement for those within the tent to do their visual search outside and free standing. One would presume these viewing cuts preceeded the slashes to the tent. It makes clear that once the tent was catastrophically ruined by cutting, no mending of the tent would be sufficient to continue to use it. In other words, it was too cold to go out of the tent to look for the two Yuris, but it was acceptable to knife the tent to go find them. So, why did Igor try to get back to the tent?

It seems that in this case, two Yuris leave the tent and retrieve nothing of importance. They start a fire, but abandon it in order to climb a tree instead of following their own tracks back to the tent. The rest of the party shred and depart the tent to go find their friends who are by then dead. The remaining hikers strip the deceased of clothing and try to shelter in a ravine. Three hikers have sufficient reason to regain the tent. All perish.

Surely, everyone was of sound mind, or were they?