The Four

[ahabmyth]

I am confused about the den and when it was made.
I assume that it was made by the whole group with a few of them going off when nearly finished to make a fire.
Then the obvious ,two stay there  (maybe injured) to keep the fire going. The den being finished and a good fire going four of them go off to collect more firewood whilst the other three decided to go back to the ruined tent for blankets and other stuff. .

[GlennM]

The pallet of branches and clothing at the corners had got to figure in to the situation.

[ahabmyth]

According to some theorists the tent was actually near the cedar, tied up between a healthy and a rotten tree ,just like the tent itself was rotten..Well now it is put to the test and after celebrating around a campfire under a Xmas like cedar tree, the group retire for the night. All is well until whilst settling down and an almighty crack pierces that Xmas like silent night. With an almighty thump the tree comes crashing down through the tent breaking it nearly in half.
Luckily a couple of the guys and Zina were outside relieving themselves ( I  cannot speculate about distances ). Zina just about out of sight watches in horror as the tree flattens the tent ,and then silence, and then slowly  the moaning and screaming fills the air as the part of the group outside zips up and races toward their friends. You need to make the rest of the story up yourselves.

What I would love to know is if this tree came crashing down, and the foundation for the tent was done correctly there should be about 6 or 7 pairs of mostly broken or smashed skis under or near this tree.
It wood (pun intended )need someone who has read Teodoras book to see what she may have said as regards this.

[Ziljoe]

According to some theorists the tent was actually near the cedar, tied up between a healthy and a rotten tree ,just like the tent itself was rotten..Well now it is put to the test and after celebrating around a campfire under a Xmas like cedar tree, the group retire for the night. All is well until whilst settling down and an almighty crack pierces that Xmas like silent night. With an almighty thump the tree comes crashing down through the tent breaking it nearly in half.
Luckily a couple of the guys and Zina were outside relieving themselves ( I  cannot speculate about distances ). Zina just about out of sight watches in horror as the tree flattens the tent ,and then silence, and then slowly  the moaning and screaming fills the air as the part of the group outside zips up and races toward their friends. You need to make the rest of the story up yourselves.

What I would love to know is if this tree came crashing down, and the foundation for the tent was done correctly there should be about 6 or 7 pairs of mostly broken or smashed skis under or near this tree.
It wood (pun intended )need someone who has read Teodoras book to see what she may have said as regards this.

When camping in the forest , the skis were not needed for flooring. They used fir, spruce branches for insulation .

It is alleged that Dyatlov and other hikers pioneered the method of using skis as flooring on earlier hikes when pitching tents in open areas or where the snow couldn't be dug out to the ground level. Thus , providing insulation and a level surface .

Later in witness statements, it is reported that the tent found on the slope was installed to the correct standards and guidelines.

There are arguments given that the tent could not have been staged on the slope because it was only the Dyatlov group who knew how to install the tent on ski's. I think this was claimed by the hiker that got replaced by Zolo, I have forgotten his name. He claims it would be impossible for outsiders to know to place the skis under the tent.

Also alleged is that the tent was used as a storm shelter the winter before. Dyatlov on another hike got caught in a storm, they unpacked the tent and just crawled inside as the storm was too fierce to allow for the erection of the tent. The put the rucksacks on top of tent and held on for dear life. There is a photo.

It is also reported that Zolo had his level 3 and intact was trying to get his senior grade certificate and not master .

I only found this out yesterday although I don't know if I can trust anything on the internet.

[ahabmyth]

NEXT

[OLD JEDI 72]

According to some theorists the tent was actually near the cedar, tied up between a healthy and a rotten tree ,just like the tent itself was rotten..Well now it is put to the test and after celebrating around a campfire under a Xmas like cedar tree, the group retire for the night. All is well until whilst settling down and an almighty crack pierces that Xmas like silent night. With an almighty thump the tree comes crashing down through the tent breaking it nearly in half.
Luckily a couple of the guys and Zina were outside relieving themselves ( I  cannot speculate about distances ). Zina just about out of sight watches in horror as the tree flattens the tent ,and then silence, and then slowly  the moaning and screaming fills the air as the part of the group outside zips up and races toward their friends. You need to make the rest of the story up yourselves.

What I would love to know is if this tree came crashing down, and the foundation for the tent was done correctly there should be about 6 or 7 pairs of mostly broken or smashed skis under or near this tree.
It wood (pun intended )need someone who has read Teodoras book to see what she may have said as regards this.

When camping in the forest , the skis were not needed for flooring. They used fir, spruce branches for insulation .

It is alleged that Dyatlov and other hikers pioneered the method of using skis as flooring on earlier hikes when pitching tents in open areas or where the snow couldn't be dug out to the ground level. Thus , providing insulation and a level surface .

Later in witness statements, it is reported that the tent found on the slope was installed to the correct standards and guidelines.

There are arguments given that the tent could not have been staged on the slope because it was only the Dyatlov group who knew how to install the tent on ski's. I think this was claimed by the hiker that got replaced by Zolo, I have forgotten his name. He claims it would be impossible for outsiders to know to place the skis under the tent.

Also alleged is that the tent was used as a storm shelter the winter before. Dyatlov on another hike got caught in a storm, they unpacked the tent and just crawled inside as the storm was too fierce to allow for the erection of the tent. The put the rucksacks on top of tent and held on for dear life. There is a photo.

It is also reported that Zolo had his level 3 and intact was trying to get his senior grade certificate and not master .

I only found this out yesterday although I don't know if I can trust anything on the internet.

I had my bot search what you were speaking on; it seems it's just forum lore. That’s a good summary of how Dyatlov’s group worked with the tent and skis. The detail about “only the Dyatlov group knowing how to install a tent on skis” came from Yury Yudin, the student who turned back early. He stressed in his statements that outsiders would not know their specific methods, which has often been used as an argument against staging.

On Zolotaryov, the “level 3” point is where things often get blurred. The route itself was a Category III winter trek, so all participants were aiming for a Grade III certificate for completing it. That may be why you saw references to him “going for level 3.” At the same time, Russian sources and dyatlovpass.com note that Zolotaryov’s personal goal was to advance toward Master of Sports in tourism, which was a different system entirely.

The Soviet ranks at the time were set up as III Class, II Class, I Class, then Candidate Master of Sports, and finally Master of Sports. The group as a whole was working on a Grade III trek certificate, while Zolotaryov, already older and more experienced, was likely using the expedition as part of his own path toward Master of Sports. Sometimes that gets mistranslated into English as “master’s certificate” or “senior grade,” which creates the confusion.

So really there were two parallel tracks. The younger students wanted the Category III certificate from the route, while Zolotaryov was pursuing a much higher personal sports title. The “senior grade” phrase you came across sounds more like an attempt to reconcile those two systems, but the documented goal for him was Master of Sports, not simply a base certificate.

[Ziljoe]

I had my bot search what you were speaking on; it seems it's just forum lore. That’s a good summary of how Dyatlov’s group worked with the tent and skis. The detail about “only the Dyatlov group knowing how to install a tent on skis” came from Yury Yudin, the student who turned back early. He stressed in his statements that outsiders would not know their specific methods, which has often been used as an argument against staging.

On Zolotaryov, the “level 3” point is where things often get blurred. The route itself was a Category III winter trek, so all participants were aiming for a Grade III certificate for completing it. That may be why you saw references to him “going for level 3.” At the same time, Russian sources and dyatlovpass.com note that Zolotaryov’s personal goal was to advance toward Master of Sports in tourism, which was a different system entirely.

The Soviet ranks at the time were set up as III Class, II Class, I Class, then Candidate Master of Sports, and finally Master of Sports. The group as a whole was working on a Grade III trek certificate, while Zolotaryov, already older and more experienced, was likely using the expedition as part of his own path toward Master of Sports. Sometimes that gets mistranslated into English as “master’s certificate” or “senior grade,” which creates the confusion.

So really there were two parallel tracks. The younger students wanted the Category III certificate from the route, while Zolotaryov was pursuing a much higher personal sports title. The “senior grade” phrase you came across sounds more like an attempt to reconcile those two systems, but the documented goal for him was Master of Sports, not simply a base certificate.

I might be wrong or the bot will have trouble on foreign sites. I'm trying to look through my history to find the source , I ended up down a rabbit hole of interesting topics from other sources. I'll try and get back to it today.

[OLD JEDI 72]

Sources that help on skis, tent setup, and Zolotaryov’s rank vs. the route certificate:

• Yury Yudin witness statement (methods, outsiders wouldn’t know their setup):
Yudin testimony

• How many skis were under the tent (primary doc roundup):
Counting skis

• Group diaries for 28–31 Jan (stove, tension, camp habits):
Diaries and chronology

• Route commission approval showing Category III trek:
Protocol of the Route Commission

• Trek categories vs. personal sports ranks (what “Category III” means vs ranks like Master of Sports):
Trek categories and sports ranks

• Zolotaryov’s personal goal noted as Master of Sports (not just “level 3”):
Semyon Zolotaryov profile
Chronology part 1 (Zolotaryov aiming at Master of Sports)
“Threat from the air” (context on needing higher category trips toward Master of Sports)

• Extra context on skis-as-floor practice from another Ural group:
Shumkov group (skis laid under tent)

[Ziljoe]

Sources that help on skis, tent setup, and Zolotaryov’s rank vs. the route certificate:

• Yury Yudin witness statement (methods, outsiders wouldn’t know their setup):
Yudin testimony

• How many skis were under the tent (primary doc roundup):
Counting skis

• Group diaries for 28–31 Jan (stove, tension, camp habits):
Diaries and chronology

• Route commission approval showing Category III trek:
Protocol of the Route Commission

• Trek categories vs. personal sports ranks (what “Category III” means vs ranks like Master of Sports):
Trek categories and sports ranks

• Zolotaryov’s personal goal noted as Master of Sports (not just “level 3”):
Semyon Zolotaryov profile
Chronology part 1 (Zolotaryov aiming at Master of Sports)
“Threat from the air” (context on needing higher category trips toward Master of Sports)

• Extra context on skis-as-floor practice from another Ural group:
Shumkov group (skis laid under tent)

oJ ,I can't see anything that mentions Yuri yudin mentioning that outsiders wouldn't know the method of the tent setup.

Or the last link. I'm sure I read it before but the report doesn't make sense , is there a link to that link. Maybe teddy will know?

[Hunter]

Judging by the photo, the flooring was done under conditions of time constraints and panic.

[SURI]

Judging by the photo, the flooring was done under conditions of time constraints and panic.

Prepared for 4 people.

[Ziljoe]

About the person that said that outsiders would not know how to stage the tent with skis underneath. It was Pyotr Bartolomey , he was asked to go on the hike but couldn't due to an internship. Pyotr was friends with Igor and many of the hikers , they had hiked together in previous years. In a 2019 interview he says this. ( May be translation errors and spelling mistakes)


About the prosecutor's office

— "On the eve of the prosecutors' departure to Ivdel to the Dyatlov Pass (to conduct an on-site inspection), you were summoned to the regional prosecutor's office. What did they ask about?"
[/b]
— "I was not questioned by Andrei Kuryakov (the Sverdlovsk prosecutor who gave a press conference about the start of a large-scale investigation into the death of the Dyatlov group — editor's note), but by his employees — young people, completely normal, sensible guys. They said that Moscow had instructed them to check three versions (avalanche, snow slab and hurricane), but, supposedly, they wanted to hear the opinions of different people, so that there would be no dissatisfaction later that someone was not heard. I feel that to some extent I shook them with my conversations — about the same Urakov. About the rearrangement of the tent (there is such a version — it was very actively discussed in Malakhov's programs, editor's note): I explained why this could not have happened.

I showed them photos of how we pitched this tent a year before, during the 1958 expedition to the Subpolar Urals. That's where we learned to do it. Since there were no spruce branches on the mountainside, and there was neither time nor energy to dig to the ground (to have a solid base for the tent), we came up with the idea of ​​pitching it on skis. And if there were some people who allegedly killed the Dyatlov group in another place and then scattered the bodies on the slope, how could they have known our method of pitching the tent? And how could they have created the Dyatlov group's footprints?"

Now , interestingly, something I didn't know , on the 20th of January, there were meant to be eleven people going on the hike. I don't think the tent would have allowed 11 given its dimensions. In fact, the tent must have been awful with the hanging stove , I can't but help the tent must have been bigger than the reported dimensions.

It also seems clear that those who ended up on the hike came to be there by complete chance . There can have been no planning of a secret mission , several hikers had to pull out due to other commitments, I'm actually quite annoyed at this fact as I've wasted time thinking that Zolo was maybe put in for some reason.

I comfortably conclude that the group came together pretty randomly.

[SURI]

The scene and the diaries show something different. You just refuse to believe it. The four of them appear together not only in the ravine, but also in the diaries, in the combat leaflet Evening Otorten, and even left their mark on Zina's forehead, their main target.

[Ziljoe]

The scene and the diaries show something different. You just refuse to believe it. The four of them appear together not only in the ravine, but also in the diaries, in the combat leaflet Evening Otorten, and even left their mark on Zina's forehead, their main target.

I'm not sure who you are addressing Suri but what four? I think only 3 of the ravine 4 names appear in the combat leaflet and everyone's name is in the diary I think.

[OLD JEDI 72]

ziljoe, I see what you mean about that last link. The opening talks of them with their skis so that's probably what the bot saw. Talk about a rabbit hole! The Shumkov group! That link is pretty cool for the rocket theory. And I see what you mean about the Yuri Yudin link.  I haven't had to double-check my bot for awhile, so I'll make sure to do so.

[Ziljoe]

Old jedi 72.

No problem , I was grumping and cursing away having to read through it . It's my concern about the AI , it won't do harm but we can't guarantee that it picks up every source of information and if it's original. I have a personal interest in correct information and if one bit is wrong or assumed to be correct then the consequences are huge.

It just needs to be crossed referenced I guess. All the other hikes are interesting as they all suffer the same challenges in one way or another, tents getting holes from the sparks, too hot next to their stove's, drying clothes , holes in their shoe covers etc etc.

As this was about the den , I've come full circle in my thoughts. I came upon a couple of stories ,

1) one day a hiker was sick in the tent , other hikers travelled 10km to the forest( there and back I think)  to make porridge to help the sick tourist. This was because they had no other way to heat or melt snow , basically cook hot food.

2) Igor had already got caught in a storm the previous winter  and lay under the collapsed tent with his friend because it was too stormy to erect the tent , it happened too quickly.

The reason I mention these two points is that ,if this is true , then Igor would know that it's quicker to go down to the woods to avoid bad weather than to stop and dig a platform, then try to erect the tent , it would take too long . He knows that the wind can overpower.

He also knows that you need kerosine stoves or something else to cook in the tent if you chose these locations out with the treeline. To choose to camp where he did ,doesn't seem like it was a choice, he's got no way to heat hot food to keep people warm , at night or morning , the wool blankets are not a recommendation without a wood stove , they will have little or no water , they can't dry their clothes . It's a poor decision to make everyone already  cold get colder and they didn't need to camp on the slope for a certificate . It would seem the main cooking was done in the pots which would be over an open fire .

A cold night stay is just being in the tent and that's it , you don't get any extra credits or points if you do.

Anyway , my thoughts are thinking they had to stop there and then to pitch the tent and it wasn't a storm that made them do it , an accident maybe?

[SURI]

The scene and the diaries show something different. You just refuse to believe it. The four of them appear together not only in the ravine, but also in the diaries, in the combat leaflet Evening Otorten, and even left their mark on Zina's forehead, their main target.

I'm not sure who you are addressing Suri but what four? I think only 3 of the ravine 4 names appear in the combat leaflet and everyone's name is in the diary I think.

Sorry, I should have quoted. I don't like quoting long posts, it's confusing then and takes up a lot of space.

Yes, the combat leaflet has the names of these three from the ravine and the fourth wrote. Witness Akselrod could evaluate it with his own eyes.

"Personally, letters seem to me angular, and the handwriting is similar to Zolotaryov's, but with significant changes. This is possible in the freezing temperatures."
https://dyatlovpass.com/case-files-316-329?rbid=17743

The same names from the group are then also listed in the "unknown diary". This diary has a hidden meaning, it is known that Kolevatov did not have a birthday, as stated in the diary.

And in the general diary of January 25th there are these sentences from Kolevatov:

"Four of the most agile went far ahead to the settlement of Talitsa to see the power station."

"(I am part of the "agile" four)."

[Ziljoe]

Suri

An interesting interpretation. I read it as self criticism with humour. They were given time to walk about from the bus , the most agile ( other translation is nimble) took a gamble that they had time to take a look at things and they got caught out. They write the diary to tell stories, like a TV drama , like modern social media . All the other hiking groups do the same . There is no fun in writing a diary for people to read " we got up, ate food , got on a bus , travelled to dropping off point, unpacked equipment, went to sleep. "

However , I am interested and look forward to hearing your theory if you are willing to share. Obviously there might be some questions by forum members. It's the nature of the forum .

You seem confident and I respect that . Please continue if you want to.

[sarapuk]

I am confused about the den and when it was made.
I assume that it was made by the whole group with a few of them going off when nearly finished to make a fire.
Then the obvious ,two stay there  (maybe injured) to keep the fire going. The den being finished and a good fire going four of them go off to collect more firewood whilst the other three decided to go back to the ruined tent for blankets and other stuff. .

You are not alone in being confused about the Den. It's never been ascertained if it was a Den.