What if: fire and the den

[Nigel Evans]

"Argument" in opposition to hypothesis is argument in opposition to hypothesis, not listing random alternative possibilities.

First and Foremost:  MA Sadovsky is the physicist who definitively stated the theoretical physics.  His work is well summarized at https://www.metabunk.org/attachments/blast-effect-calculation-1-pdf.2578/.  Download and read.  After Sadovsky formulas were stated, there is only particular applications to certain circumstances.
It is exasperating to read, over and over again, such things as " a good case can be made that they were run over by a multi wheeled or tracked vehicle"  The impulse wave to the bodies is lasting in small millisecond amounts.  Not like wheeled vehicle.  Read Tumanov discussion earlier in page.
Reading forums is exasperating as the same bad physics is regurgitated over and over again.

Ah Jacques me' old exasperating sparring partner...Thanks for the best quote on this forum for some time - "Explosions can be different sizes depending on the amount of explosives used to cause explosion."
It's gems like that, that keep me coming back here for more

More of what?

This site has two sides. I am absolutely astonished - the brilliant and diligent diligence of those who discover documents and artifacts. You are incredible! I think of Teddy and all the founders and so many others. So grateful for your work!
Then, two levels ago. We are secondary members and we do respectfully everything we can to improve the discourse.
Of secondary members, I am very disappointed, and especially of you, Nigel. You do not add any primary source material; but you do not care to intervene in a mutually beneficial way.
I know professionally with some aspects of the biophysics of the effects of explosions on humans. There are two other people (WAB, spygirl) who talk about this subject in a meaningful way (apart from the quarrels). The article I quoted proposes:
There is common set of equations witch can be used for calculation of blast wave from explosive charges, it's called Sadovsky formulas. It works regardless on nature of explosion and depends only on TNT equivalent of explosive charge. All this calculations are based on energy similarity law for explosions witch stated that all blast wave parameters are function of two variables: first is explosion energy and second is distance from explosion origin.
My God, read them maybe! For you, it's trivial nonsense, like a sketch of Monty Python. What is this two-variable equation, energy and distance? You do not understand, so you do not care. Ho-ho, stupid smart people! Scientists are fools, no? You then seem Homer Simpson of the council.
It is impossible to be a contributing secondary member of the board, to offer analysis of the main source material. As many of the members seem so, the board seems now, you can keep it, it's up to you, bye. You win.

1. Wrt finding and discussing material on ball lightning i think i can safely say that i qualify as the most productive member of this forum. Ball lightning of course being the stated favourite theory of Ivanov who saw all the evidence before confiscation.
2. Can i say that of all the members of the forum i respect your knowledge of science and physics the most and judge it to be above mine.
3. A forum such as this, is naturally adversarial, a cockpit for arguing different theories.
4. But if you can't stand the heat....

[tekumze]

Hi, Jacques-Emile,
Ha, ha, ha... How did you know??? 

[WAB]

 

I'm not anybody's "little girl" & I think you've got it wrong who is the meglamanic. I will be using the utmost restraint replying to your ridiculous diatribe.   

1.You in vain try "be deciphered", who you and you that from yourselves represent in the given theme, it was clear at once after perusal of pair texts. For this purpose it is not necessary be the psychologist even initial level. Was make the elementary semantic analysis (simply attentively, and with sense, read you texts) enough what it understand. Also behave you as that "little girl". A hysterics which you here have gone at once as soon as with you have disagreed are it is very characteristic. It is necessary so be substituted?. Have dirtied forum that minimum six times were confused in the same elementary action …
And again there are constant attempts “for whom that to hide”. For example, once again:

“My spouse advances you on mile!”

We not speak about it, and we speak about you. You that can show in this respect? And it is interesting to me, where he was at war? Really, it is only in Washington? It is what be compared to me …
Case has reached even that you cannot normally format the text on the Internet or will quickly learn, as it is necessary do it.
It is your intelligence about which you here so pathosly spoke?
Hardly more adult girls master such things in some minutes.
Absolutely not clearly, how with such abilities you could work in FBI?
Or you will accuse again others that do: constantly “urinate boiled water”?

I have no idea what you're talking about!
 

2.It is absolute true. You about what that here is told on theme, have no the slightest concept. Neither about features of area actions, nor about natural factors, about specificity of that, than Dyatlov group, that was in life during that time was engaged. I have asked the basic (key) question:

 

«A control question:
Describe signs of the "explosions" which have been found out in participants Dyatlov group? And as show, where and as traces from these "explosions" have been found out on district.
And it will be examination on your qualification and truthfulness.
For now it is not revealed and it is not confirmed authentically, it is not necessary give out the imaginations as "facts". »©

Actually it is here 2 questions: 1. Explosion signs on district? 2. Signs of traumas from explosion on bodies victims?
You have left from these questions, and they are criterion of reliability of your statements.
But to them you not condition answer. Because it do not know and at all have not read competently reports of the judicial doctor. And consequently that it is impossible find in both these places of that is not present, and never was. There are there no signs of explosions. Neither on district, nor on bodies.
That you want: understand that there has occurred, or at any cost drag the false opinion?
Therefore it turns out that you give not trustworthy information, and the inventions. If you want tell so that it is normal for FBI, it is discredit this “your” bureau.
I think that it there work not so. Thorough studying of all components There is required. You have not found time even to check up reliability of that put forward as the theory. And as reliability of sources the information, and at once do accusatory conclusions. Such approach from normal people is called as forgery.
You in the same way worked in the agency?

 

Are you mad? I have the utmost respect in my post to all other persons field of knowledge. At the end of the day someone must put the pieces of the puzzle (investigation/examination) together so the case may be resolved..

I have understood all. You could not understand that thought at all which to you have told. It is necessary notice that thus your intelligence “above the sky”.
Probably, you have found only familiar letters in the text, and to connect them in has washed off the text at you any more there was no "intelligence". It is happens all.
There is no this imaginary respect. Because instead of the analysis events and their signs on the nature you have false opinions with in advance thought up conclusions are offered.
You suggest collect puzzle from your false "slices"?

How dare you disrespect not only me but the position I held. I have been very careful not to disclose my agency or my rank/position.  Nowhere have I or others on this forum contradict the facts of DPI
 

The one who gives unreliable information has not respect.. And not the one who insists that it unique correct only because it occupied what that a post, and knows nothing that speaks. The respect has the one who gives the authentic and competent information You do not have any trustworthy information directly from place, there is no it from initial documents, and there is no it from direct participants of events (except victims). At me it is all is. Therefore I and you such different opinions. Attempt without adducing any proof deny those facts that is in documents and on place, leads distortion of straight lines and established facts and their substitution by "you himself". In forum heading there is such record: «Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts. ― Daniel Patrick Moynihan» © Read it, can be that will help that understand? Though, I have doubt it.

 

The fact you completely ignore I'm sadly a bereaved parent speaks volumes about your character.
.

About your character says even more that you are ready present the lies to grieving parents, instead of what is tactful, quiet and without haste inform truth. You do not think that will be when they later will receive truth. I am some times, had do it in the same cases, as DPI, after the and searches. All of them understood correctly.
We are on friendly terms with some relatives already more than 40 years. But you it understand not in condition.
And you impose your opinion, at all without knowing, who such Tatyana Perminova, and that she would like hear. Also replace her opinion to you - false. It is too called substitution of concepts to false. I was at she together with Kuntsevich and we spoke quite as friendly. With she the Fund constantly works. And here that is not required whose demagogical interventions of extraneous persons which anything cannot help but only are engaged in insignificant talks.

Ya know,  this site was friendly, respectiful, & good discussions. So please, I emplore you, go crawl back under your rock & let the rest of us get back to the intended spirit of this forum.
.

It is one more continuation of demagogy. If you yet have not understood, I speak directly: you have received in the answer “delivery by the same money with which tried pay”. And not I began this confrontation. If you would want that treated kindly you, arrive as it.
As speak in boxing: “you are not able hold Blow” © therefore these are audible your squeal and the boorish reference.
Probably you have got used to weak opponents who cannot oppose you anything. Wean, this time has passed.
It is not necessary worry about forum, here many more cleverer people, than you. Not all want to be puppies of agents FBI.
That you have deserved, and it receive. And this your lies about the reasons of events as result of "explosions" and remains lies, and it will not change anything.

[WAB]

"Death by overcooling" does not disqualify the violence or homicide as a cause of death.

If consider all complex events not one-sidedly, and entirely, it is disqualifies.
You do not take into consideration conditions of district and arrangement of this place concerning other people place and their possibilities. This place is on distance approximately 100 miles from that place where it was possible reach with assistance. For example, on the car. Further it is necessary go on skis, on condition of full autonomy and full independent maintenance. Some days in the conditions of winter in Ural Mountains in January and February for this purpose are required. And go walk very considerable skills. But there is more to come. It is necessary return back. Or go to leave further away. Back it is = 100 miles. If go further to the nearest inhabited settlement it is necessary take place still approximately 200 … 250 miles. All these ways go on snow about such depths:



Anybody another did not possess such skills. Such skill works enough for years and it was peculiar only to those who was engaged in the travel similar to travel by Dyatlov group. If it neglect, it is possible develop imaginations indefinitely. But it will be vain for true.

If I lock a person in a freezer or force them outside without proper gear, that is 'technically' hypothermia, but legally and morally that is well performed murder.

Before so argue, it is necessary to itself answer to question: “for Whom and what for it was necessary?”. While on it there is no the accurate and real answer, all these reasonings remain simply imaginations. And as know style and sequence of events of behaviour the freezing person.

The subsequent reaction of the people involved in the investigation strongly alludes to a cover-up as otherwise there would be no need to close the area for public, to confiscate the evidence, to close the case as soon as possible and not to involve relavant experts in the investigation.

The first. This reaction designates only that people as then, and cannot explain till now for themselves the reason escape from tent without clothes and equipment. If it was is (and it was upon that they were lost also them have found in such kind) it is possible do that of nothing from outside further. The nature has made all. When heat losses make in 8 … 10 times more, than metabolic heat of the human in rest then the death it is question reduced only to time size. And under conditions of Northern Ural Mountains in the beginning of February this time makes all some hours.
The second. Anybody hid nothing and there was no confiscation of proofs. It is result of distribution of gossips and no more it. For this purpose, what speak about it would be necessary know precisely and authentically: that has been hidden and why it is. You have answer to this question?
If in carrying out of preliminary investigation there are lacks it always happens in any such case. Especially if consider that it was 60 years ago and there was no experience of investigation such events. This experience is not present and now. It is impossible on the basis of practice carrying out such affairs in city do conclusions about actions of people in extreme conditions. And with result unknown in advance. I saw some such investigations on similar cases, there the information condition in criminal case even is worse, than here. A unique difference that the reason as an event source there is known. In the West such affairs in general are not present (or no accessibility ), therefore and too it is impossible compare to it.

[WAB]

Greetings to all.
Because I see that Mr WAB has lost his temper and has unnecessarily gotten into the forum with fairly hostile rhetoric. I would like to explain that it is important to understand that this gentleman is an old, ill, retired military officer who still believes in own mission. It must be understood that they were raised following the brainwashing doctrine and that it is difficult to go beyond that. To him any hint, that the cause of the Dyatlov tragedy is something else than a natural disaster, is an attack on his country. He just defends his country (USSR which officially not exist anymore) the way he was trained. Above all, it is obvious that he is a completely harmless old gentleman who is just lonely. He writes enormously, though he really has nothing to say. Therefore, I urge all participants in the forum on tolerance in accordance with the civilizational norm.

From me is what to tell. And it is a lot of about you personally.
At first I thought that you really want to understand that there was with Dyatlov group.
But I was mistaken.
 You simply small mean bootlicker, before that who was presented as agent FBI which as the puppy is ready wave with tail, what and it to please and most get support in the mean intentions. Now such it is  lot in Europe, but, fortunately not all. These are attacks not to me, and to my country. If you have decided go by same means, as Hitler will be to you both Stalingrad and Berlin. It is not dependent that it, then the USSR or now the Russian Federation. And it is well visible from this that you substitute that is, the mean desires and empty inventions. 
You are right, me have taught to protect the country, both with the weapon and before such talkers as you.
That Popovnin has not reported to he, public prosecutors have not pleased he …
Who you such, what Popovnin would report to you?
And with the public prosecutors ourselves will understand.
Only also wishes to make to receive something what state the next muck.
It is opposite to deal with the collector and the distributor of gossips.
At you brains are not washed out, they are dirtied (full , excrement) by own propagation. It can be and in you himself, with mean intentions.
I, such old and sick, still have forces and will go to place of events in the winter and made there researches by which nobody does. It would become that in details understand being of this case. Why you, such young and healthy, (and "clever") do not suffice mind understand, what it is useless search for “black cat” in dark room-DPI? It there is not present. But you continue. I wish success. It very much useful occupation. For fools. The main it is thing, for long time. As there is such “intellectual and knowing”  boss from FBI.

[WAB]

"Argument" in opposition to hypothesis is argument in opposition to hypothesis, not listing random alternative possibilities.

First and Foremost:  MA Sadovsky is the physicist who definitively stated the theoretical physics.  His work is well summarized at https://www.metabunk.org/attachments/blast-effect-calculation-1-pdf.2578/.  Download and read.  After Sadovsky formulas were stated, there is only particular applications to certain circumstances.
Explosions can be different sizes depending on the amount of explosives used to cause explosion.
It is exasperating to read, over and over again, such things as " a good case can be made that they were run over by a multi wheeled or tracked vehicle"  The impulse wave to the bodies is lasting in small millisecond amounts. 

You are only correctly speak. Only on the place there are no signs any explosions. And as no wheel technics can reach there in the winter. In the winter, there not always probably reach even on snowmobile. For Sadovsky`s article thanks to you. From the informative point of view it is useful, but not with practical for case in point. Because for the given event, it is not applicable because it absence such phenomenon as explosion.

Not like wheeled vehicle.  Read Tumanov discussion earlier in page.

I want you correct a little here. Unfortunately, Edward Tumanov has no practice of work with bodies at failures similar to these. It constantly changes the opinions because there are new circumstances which contradict old statements. It is normal for the process, but it is impossible be guided by it, as on firm true. I with it should discuss periodically in this and other case, therefore I have decided give some explanatory here. I less it understand anatomy, but it is more in the biomechanic of damages of the person. It, unfortunately, not so well understands it.
For example: I want ask you one question which we with it assorted: At Nikolay Tibo`s the skull trauma has 2 point of destruction - temporal part and the skull basis. How you think, as well as why it has occurred?
If you will not have comments, I will explain later that I here want to inform.

Reading forums is exasperating as the same bad physics is regurgitated over and over again.

Here again I with you agree completely as.

[WAB]

Hmmm....you think he is American President Trump, also? 

Of course! Both John Kennedy..., and Jesus Christ … 

[WAB]

Ball lightning of course being the stated favourite theory of Ivanov who saw all the evidence before confiscation.

Dear Nigel!
I very much want answer you in detail all your questions, but here it is necessary write much, and I now have no such time.
Therefore I only will make one small remark.
a. Leo Ivanov in the statements (or “the declared favourite theory” (meant not a fireball, and UFO. I do not know that for you will be authoritative opinion but as that we (it was conversation in Fund at Yury Kuntsevich after one of their conferences) concerned this question in conversation with Ivanov's daughter - Aleksandra. She precisely said that it was fond of the UFO and no instead fireball theory.
b. Any confiscations of proofs from criminal case was not. These are gossips extended of a source from Korotayev. And Korotayev of anything certain could not tell and each time spoke on another when it asked that he spoke.
Recently there was a book of writer Nikolay Andreeva ( https://drive.google.com/file/d/1GDQaUgJ5nUDxrFyPLGRe4FZis1LwmVuk/view?usp=sharing it is  in Russian!), there it assorts contradictions in Korotayev's performances much.

[Spygirl 1]

I'm not anybody's "little girl" & I think you've got it wrong who is the meglamanic. I will be using the utmost restraint replying to your ridiculous diatribe.   

1.You in vain try "be deciphered", who you and you that from yourselves represent in the given theme, it was clear at once after perusal of pair texts. For this purpose it is not necessary be the psychologist even initial level. Was make the elementary semantic analysis (simply attentively, and with sense, read you texts) enough what it understand. Also behave you as that "little girl". A hysterics which you here have gone at once as soon as with you have disagreed are it is very characteristic. It is necessary so be substituted?. Have dirtied forum that minimum six times were confused in the same elementary action …
And again there are constant attempts “for whom that to hide”. For example, once again:

“My spouse advances you on mile!”

We not speak about it, and we speak about you. You that can show in this respect? And it is interesting to me, where he was at war? Really, it is only in Washington? It is what be compared to me …
Case has reached even that you cannot normally format the text on the Internet or will quickly learn, as it is necessary do it.
It is your intelligence about which you here so pathosly spoke?
Hardly more adult girls master such things in some minutes.
Absolutely not clearly, how with such abilities you could work in FBI?
Or you will accuse again others that do: constantly “urinate boiled water”?

I have no idea what you're talking about!
 

2.It is absolute true. You about what that here is told on theme, have no the slightest concept. Neither about features of area actions, nor about natural factors, about specificity of that, than Dyatlov group, that was in life during that time was engaged. I have asked the basic (key) question:

 

«A control question:
Describe signs of the "explosions" which have been found out in participants Dyatlov group? And as show, where and as traces from these "explosions" have been found out on district.
And it will be examination on your qualification and truthfulness.
For now it is not revealed and it is not confirmed authentically, it is not necessary give out the imaginations as "facts". »©

Actually it is here 2 questions: 1. Explosion signs on district? 2. Signs of traumas from explosion on bodies victims?
You have left from these questions, and they are criterion of reliability of your statements.
But to them you not condition answer. Because it do not know and at all have not read competently reports of the judicial doctor. And consequently that it is impossible find in both these places of that is not present, and never was. There are there no signs of explosions. Neither on district, nor on bodies.
That you want: understand that there has occurred, or at any cost drag the false opinion?
Therefore it turns out that you give not trustworthy information, and the inventions. If you want tell so that it is normal for FBI, it is discredit this “your” bureau.
I think that it there work not so. Thorough studying of all components There is required. You have not found time even to check up reliability of that put forward as the theory. And as reliability of sources the information, and at once do accusatory conclusions. Such approach from normal people is called as forgery.
You in the same way worked in the agency?

 

Are you mad? I have the utmost respect in my post to all other persons field of knowledge. At the end of the day someone must put the pieces of the puzzle (investigation/examination) together so the case may be resolved..

I have understood all. You could not understand that thought at all which to you have told. It is necessary notice that thus your intelligence “above the sky”.
Probably, you have found only familiar letters in the text, and to connect them in has washed off the text at you any more there was no "intelligence". It is happens all.
There is no this imaginary respect. Because instead of the analysis events and their signs on the nature you have false opinions with in advance thought up conclusions are offered.
You suggest collect puzzle from your false "slices"?

How dare you disrespect not only me but the position I held. I have been very careful not to disclose my agency or my rank/position.  Nowhere have I or others on this forum contradict the facts of DPI
 

The one who gives unreliable information has not respect.. And not the one who insists that it unique correct only because it occupied what that a post, and knows nothing that speaks. The respect has the one who gives the authentic and competent information You do not have any trustworthy information directly from place, there is no it from initial documents, and there is no it from direct participants of events (except victims). At me it is all is. Therefore I and you such different opinions. Attempt without adducing any proof deny those facts that is in documents and on place, leads distortion of straight lines and established facts and their substitution by "you himself". In forum heading there is such record: «Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts. ― Daniel Patrick Moynihan» © Read it, can be that will help that understand? Though, I have doubt it.

 

The fact you completely ignore I'm sadly a bereaved parent speaks volumes about your character.
.

About your character says even more that you are ready present the lies to grieving parents, instead of what is tactful, quiet and without haste inform truth. You do not think that will be when they later will receive truth. I am some times, had do it in the same cases, as DPI, after the and searches. All of them understood correctly.
We are on friendly terms with some relatives already more than 40 years. But you it understand not in condition.
And you impose your opinion, at all without knowing, who such Tatyana Perminova, and that she would like hear. Also replace her opinion to you - false. It is too called substitution of concepts to false. I was at she together with Kuntsevich and we spoke quite as friendly. With she the Fund constantly works. And here that is not required whose demagogical interventions of extraneous persons which anything cannot help but only are engaged in insignificant talks.

Ya know,  this site was friendly, respectiful, & good discussions. So please, I emplore you, go crawl back under your rock & let the rest of us get back to the intended spirit of this forum.
.

It is one more continuation of demagogy. If you yet have not understood, I speak directly: you have received in the answer “delivery by the same money with which tried pay”. And not I began this confrontation. If you would want that treated kindly you, arrive as it.
As speak in boxing: “you are not able hold Blow” © therefore these are audible your squeal and the boorish reference.
Probably you have got used to weak opponents who cannot oppose you anything. Wean, this time has passed.
It is not necessary worry about forum, here many more cleverer people, than you. Not all want to be puppies of agents FBI.
That you have deserved, and it receive. And this your lies about the reasons of events as result of "explosions" and remains lies, and it will not change anything.

Again-- I've never disclosed what US Federal Agenc(ies) I worked for on purpose.

I sent you a friendly private personal message asking you for a "cease fire" strictly so other members of this forum don't have to put up with this "fued" imposed by you.

Since you love to spew Russian aphorisms, here's an American one for you which I will adopt....& after this post I will not reply to you again---
"When they go low, we go hugh"

[Spygirl 1]

I'm not anybody's "little girl" & I think you've got it wrong who is the meglamanic. I will be using the utmost restraint replying to your ridiculous diatribe.   

1.You in vain try "be deciphered", who you and you that from yourselves represent in the given theme, it was clear at once after perusal of pair texts. For this purpose it is not necessary be the psychologist even initial level. Was make the elementary semantic analysis (simply attentively, and with sense, read you texts) enough what it understand. Also behave you as that "little girl". A hysterics which you here have gone at once as soon as with you have disagreed are it is very characteristic. It is necessary so be substituted?. Have dirtied forum that minimum six times were confused in the same elementary action …
And again there are constant attempts “for whom that to hide”. For example, once again:

“My spouse advances you on mile!”

We not speak about it, and we speak about you. You that can show in this respect? And it is interesting to me, where he was at war? Really, it is only in Washington? It is what be compared to me …
Case has reached even that you cannot normally format the text on the Internet or will quickly learn, as it is necessary do it.
It is your intelligence about which you here so pathosly spoke?
Hardly more adult girls master such things in some minutes.
Absolutely not clearly, how with such abilities you could work in FBI?
Or you will accuse again others that do: constantly “urinate boiled water”?

I have no idea what you're talking about!
 

2.It is absolute true. You about what that here is told on theme, have no the slightest concept. Neither about features of area actions, nor about natural factors, about specificity of that, than Dyatlov group, that was in life during that time was engaged. I have asked the basic (key) question:

 

«A control question:
Describe signs of the "explosions" which have been found out in participants Dyatlov group? And as show, where and as traces from these "explosions" have been found out on district.
And it will be examination on your qualification and truthfulness.
For now it is not revealed and it is not confirmed authentically, it is not necessary give out the imaginations as "facts". »©

Actually it is here 2 questions: 1. Explosion signs on district? 2. Signs of traumas from explosion on bodies victims?
You have left from these questions, and they are criterion of reliability of your statements.
But to them you not condition answer. Because it do not know and at all have not read competently reports of the judicial doctor. And consequently that it is impossible find in both these places of that is not present, and never was. There are there no signs of explosions. Neither on district, nor on bodies.
That you want: understand that there has occurred, or at any cost drag the false opinion?
Therefore it turns out that you give not trustworthy information, and the inventions. If you want tell so that it is normal for FBI, it is discredit this “your” bureau.
I think that it there work not so. Thorough studying of all components There is required. You have not found time even to check up reliability of that put forward as the theory. And as reliability of sources the information, and at once do accusatory conclusions. Such approach from normal people is called as forgery.
You in the same way worked in the agency?

 

Are you mad? I have the utmost respect in my post to all other persons field of knowledge. At the end of the day someone must put the pieces of the puzzle (investigation/examination) together so the case may be resolved..

I have understood all. You could not understand that thought at all which to you have told. It is necessary notice that thus your intelligence “above the sky”.
Probably, you have found only familiar letters in the text, and to connect them in has washed off the text at you any more there was no "intelligence". It is happens all.
There is no this imaginary respect. Because instead of the analysis events and their signs on the nature you have false opinions with in advance thought up conclusions are offered.
You suggest collect puzzle from your false "slices"?

How dare you disrespect not only me but the position I held. I have been very careful not to disclose my agency or my rank/position.  Nowhere have I or others on this forum contradict the facts of DPI
 

The one who gives unreliable information has not respect.. And not the one who insists that it unique correct only because it occupied what that a post, and knows nothing that speaks. The respect has the one who gives the authentic and competent information You do not have any trustworthy information directly from place, there is no it from initial documents, and there is no it from direct participants of events (except victims). At me it is all is. Therefore I and you such different opinions. Attempt without adducing any proof deny those facts that is in documents and on place, leads distortion of straight lines and established facts and their substitution by "you himself". In forum heading there is such record: «Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts. ― Daniel Patrick Moynihan» © Read it, can be that will help that understand? Though, I have doubt it.

 

The fact you completely ignore I'm sadly a bereaved parent speaks volumes about your character.
.

About your character says even more that you are ready present the lies to grieving parents, instead of what is tactful, quiet and without haste inform truth. You do not think that will be when they later will receive truth. I am some times, had do it in the same cases, as DPI, after the and searches. All of them understood correctly.
We are on friendly terms with some relatives already more than 40 years. But you it understand not in condition.
And you impose your opinion, at all without knowing, who such Tatyana Perminova, and that she would like hear. Also replace her opinion to you - false. It is too called substitution of concepts to false. I was at she together with Kuntsevich and we spoke quite as friendly. With she the Fund constantly works. And here that is not required whose demagogical interventions of extraneous persons which anything cannot help but only are engaged in insignificant talks.

Ya know,  this site was friendly, respectiful, & good discussions. So please, I emplore you, go crawl back under your rock & let the rest of us get back to the intended spirit of this forum.
.

It is one more continuation of demagogy. If you yet have not understood, I speak directly: you have received in the answer “delivery by the same money with which tried pay”. And not I began this confrontation. If you would want that treated kindly you, arrive as it.
As speak in boxing: “you are not able hold Blow” © therefore these are audible your squeal and the boorish reference.
Probably you have got used to weak opponents who cannot oppose you anything. Wean, this time has passed.
It is not necessary worry about forum, here many more cleverer people, than you. Not all want to be puppies of agents FBI.
That you have deserved, and it receive. And this your lies about the reasons of events as result of "explosions" and remains lies, and it will not change anything.

Again-- I've never disclosed what US Federal Agenc(ies) I worked for on purpose.

I sent you a friendly private personal message asking you for a "cease fire" strictly so other members of this forum don't have to put up with this "fued" imposed by you.

Since you love to spew Russian aphorisms, here's an American one for you which I will adopt....& after this post I will not reply to you again---
"When they go low, we go high"

[Spygirl 1]

I'm not anybody's "little girl" & I think you've got it wrong who is the meglamanic. I will be using the utmost restraint replying to your ridiculous diatribe.   

1.You in vain try "be deciphered", who you and you that from yourselves represent in the given theme, it was clear at once after perusal of pair texts. For this purpose it is not necessary be the psychologist even initial level. Was make the elementary semantic analysis (simply attentively, and with sense, read you texts) enough what it understand. Also behave you as that "little girl". A hysterics which you here have gone at once as soon as with you have disagreed are it is very characteristic. It is necessary so be substituted?. Have dirtied forum that minimum six times were confused in the same elementary action …
And again there are constant attempts “for whom that to hide”. For example, once again:

“My spouse advances you on mile!”

We not speak about it, and we speak about you. You that can show in this respect? And it is interesting to me, where he was at war? Really, it is only in Washington? It is what be compared to me …
Case has reached even that you cannot normally format the text on the Internet or will quickly learn, as it is necessary do it.
It is your intelligence about which you here so pathosly spoke?
Hardly more adult girls master such things in some minutes.
Absolutely not clearly, how with such abilities you could work in FBI?
Or you will accuse again others that do: constantly “urinate boiled water”?

I have no idea what you're talking about!
 

2.It is absolute true. You about what that here is told on theme, have no the slightest concept. Neither about features of area actions, nor about natural factors, about specificity of that, than Dyatlov group, that was in life during that time was engaged. I have asked the basic (key) question:

 

«A control question:
Describe signs of the "explosions" which have been found out in participants Dyatlov group? And as show, where and as traces from these "explosions" have been found out on district.
And it will be examination on your qualification and truthfulness.
For now it is not revealed and it is not confirmed authentically, it is not necessary give out the imaginations as "facts". »©

Actually it is here 2 questions: 1. Explosion signs on district? 2. Signs of traumas from explosion on bodies victims?
You have left from these questions, and they are criterion of reliability of your statements.
But to them you not condition answer. Because it do not know and at all have not read competently reports of the judicial doctor. And consequently that it is impossible find in both these places of that is not present, and never was. There are there no signs of explosions. Neither on district, nor on bodies.
That you want: understand that there has occurred, or at any cost drag the false opinion?
Therefore it turns out that you give not trustworthy information, and the inventions. If you want tell so that it is normal for FBI, it is discredit this “your” bureau.
I think that it there work not so. Thorough studying of all components There is required. You have not found time even to check up reliability of that put forward as the theory. And as reliability of sources the information, and at once do accusatory conclusions. Such approach from normal people is called as forgery.
You in the same way worked in the agency?

 

Are you mad? I have the utmost respect in my post to all other persons field of knowledge. At the end of the day someone must put the pieces of the puzzle (investigation/examination) together so the case may be resolved..

I have understood all. You could not understand that thought at all which to you have told. It is necessary notice that thus your intelligence “above the sky”.
Probably, you have found only familiar letters in the text, and to connect them in has washed off the text at you any more there was no "intelligence". It is happens all.
There is no this imaginary respect. Because instead of the analysis events and their signs on the nature you have false opinions with in advance thought up conclusions are offered.
You suggest collect puzzle from your false "slices"?

How dare you disrespect not only me but the position I held. I have been very careful not to disclose my agency or my rank/position.  Nowhere have I or others on this forum contradict the facts of DPI
 

The one who gives unreliable information has not respect.. And not the one who insists that it unique correct only because it occupied what that a post, and knows nothing that speaks. The respect has the one who gives the authentic and competent information You do not have any trustworthy information directly from place, there is no it from initial documents, and there is no it from direct participants of events (except victims). At me it is all is. Therefore I and you such different opinions. Attempt without adducing any proof deny those facts that is in documents and on place, leads distortion of straight lines and established facts and their substitution by "you himself". In forum heading there is such record: «Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts. ― Daniel Patrick Moynihan» © Read it, can be that will help that understand? Though, I have doubt it.

 

The fact you completely ignore I'm sadly a bereaved parent speaks volumes about your character.
.

About your character says even more that you are ready present the lies to grieving parents, instead of what is tactful, quiet and without haste inform truth. You do not think that will be when they later will receive truth. I am some times, had do it in the same cases, as DPI, after the and searches. All of them understood correctly.
We are on friendly terms with some relatives already more than 40 years. But you it understand not in condition.
And you impose your opinion, at all without knowing, who such Tatyana Perminova, and that she would like hear. Also replace her opinion to you - false. It is too called substitution of concepts to false. I was at she together with Kuntsevich and we spoke quite as friendly. With she the Fund constantly works. And here that is not required whose demagogical interventions of extraneous persons which anything cannot help but only are engaged in insignificant talks.

Ya know,  this site was friendly, respectiful, & good discussions. So please, I emplore you, go crawl back under your rock & let the rest of us get back to the intended spirit of this forum.
.

It is one more continuation of demagogy. If you yet have not understood, I speak directly: you have received in the answer “delivery by the same money with which tried pay”. And not I began this confrontation. If you would want that treated kindly you, arrive as it.
As speak in boxing: “you are not able hold Blow” © therefore these are audible your squeal and the boorish reference.
Probably you have got used to weak opponents who cannot oppose you anything. Wean, this time has passed.
It is not necessary worry about forum, here many more cleverer people, than you. Not all want to be puppies of agents FBI.
That you have deserved, and it receive. And this your lies about the reasons of events as result of "explosions" and remains lies, and it will not change anything.

Again-- I've never disclosed what US Federal Agenc(ies) I worked for on purpose.

I sent you a friendly private personal message asking you for a "cease fire" strictly so other members of this forum don't have to put up with this "fued" imposed by you.

Since you love to spew Russian aphorisms, here's an American one for you which I will adopt....& after this post I will not reply to you again---
"When they go low, we go high"

[Spygirl 1]

I'm not anybody's "little girl" & I think you've got it wrong who is the meglamanic. I will be using the utmost restraint replying to your ridiculous diatribe.   

1.You in vain try "be deciphered", who you and you that from yourselves represent in the given theme, it was clear at once after perusal of pair texts. For this purpose it is not necessary be the psychologist even initial level. Was make the elementary semantic analysis (simply attentively, and with sense, read you texts) enough what it understand. Also behave you as that "little girl". A hysterics which you here have gone at once as soon as with you have disagreed are it is very characteristic. It is necessary so be substituted?. Have dirtied forum that minimum six times were confused in the same elementary action …
And again there are constant attempts “for whom that to hide”. For example, once again:

“My spouse advances you on mile!”

We not speak about it, and we speak about you. You that can show in this respect? And it is interesting to me, where he was at war? Really, it is only in Washington? It is what be compared to me …
Case has reached even that you cannot normally format the text on the Internet or will quickly learn, as it is necessary do it.
It is your intelligence about which you here so pathosly spoke?
Hardly more adult girls master such things in some minutes.
Absolutely not clearly, how with such abilities you could work in FBI?
Or you will accuse again others that do: constantly “urinate boiled water”?

I have no idea what you're talking about!
 

2.It is absolute true. You about what that here is told on theme, have no the slightest concept. Neither about features of area actions, nor about natural factors, about specificity of that, than Dyatlov group, that was in life during that time was engaged. I have asked the basic (key) question:

 

«A control question:
Describe signs of the "explosions" which have been found out in participants Dyatlov group? And as show, where and as traces from these "explosions" have been found out on district.
And it will be examination on your qualification and truthfulness.
For now it is not revealed and it is not confirmed authentically, it is not necessary give out the imaginations as "facts". »©

Actually it is here 2 questions: 1. Explosion signs on district? 2. Signs of traumas from explosion on bodies victims?
You have left from these questions, and they are criterion of reliability of your statements.
But to them you not condition answer. Because it do not know and at all have not read competently reports of the judicial doctor. And consequently that it is impossible find in both these places of that is not present, and never was. There are there no signs of explosions. Neither on district, nor on bodies.
That you want: understand that there has occurred, or at any cost drag the false opinion?
Therefore it turns out that you give not trustworthy information, and the inventions. If you want tell so that it is normal for FBI, it is discredit this “your” bureau.
I think that it there work not so. Thorough studying of all components There is required. You have not found time even to check up reliability of that put forward as the theory. And as reliability of sources the information, and at once do accusatory conclusions. Such approach from normal people is called as forgery.
You in the same way worked in the agency?

 

Are you mad? I have the utmost respect in my post to all other persons field of knowledge. At the end of the day someone must put the pieces of the puzzle (investigation/examination) together so the case may be resolved..

I have understood all. You could not understand that thought at all which to you have told. It is necessary notice that thus your intelligence “above the sky”.
Probably, you have found only familiar letters in the text, and to connect them in has washed off the text at you any more there was no "intelligence". It is happens all.
There is no this imaginary respect. Because instead of the analysis events and their signs on the nature you have false opinions with in advance thought up conclusions are offered.
You suggest collect puzzle from your false "slices"?

How dare you disrespect not only me but the position I held. I have been very careful not to disclose my agency or my rank/position.  Nowhere have I or others on this forum contradict the facts of DPI
 

The one who gives unreliable information has not respect.. And not the one who insists that it unique correct only because it occupied what that a post, and knows nothing that speaks. The respect has the one who gives the authentic and competent information You do not have any trustworthy information directly from place, there is no it from initial documents, and there is no it from direct participants of events (except victims). At me it is all is. Therefore I and you such different opinions. Attempt without adducing any proof deny those facts that is in documents and on place, leads distortion of straight lines and established facts and their substitution by "you himself". In forum heading there is such record: «Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts. ― Daniel Patrick Moynihan» © Read it, can be that will help that understand? Though, I have doubt it.

 

The fact you completely ignore I'm sadly a bereaved parent speaks volumes about your character.
.

About your character says even more that you are ready present the lies to grieving parents, instead of what is tactful, quiet and without haste inform truth. You do not think that will be when they later will receive truth. I am some times, had do it in the same cases, as DPI, after the and searches. All of them understood correctly.
We are on friendly terms with some relatives already more than 40 years. But you it understand not in condition.
And you impose your opinion, at all without knowing, who such Tatyana Perminova, and that she would like hear. Also replace her opinion to you - false. It is too called substitution of concepts to false. I was at she together with Kuntsevich and we spoke quite as friendly. With she the Fund constantly works. And here that is not required whose demagogical interventions of extraneous persons which anything cannot help but only are engaged in insignificant talks.

Ya know,  this site was friendly, respectiful, & good discussions. So please, I emplore you, go crawl back under your rock & let the rest of us get back to the intended spirit of this forum.
.

It is one more continuation of demagogy. If you yet have not understood, I speak directly: you have received in the answer “delivery by the same money with which tried pay”. And not I began this confrontation. If you would want that treated kindly you, arrive as it.
As speak in boxing: “you are not able hold Blow” © therefore these are audible your squeal and the boorish reference.
Probably you have got used to weak opponents who cannot oppose you anything. Wean, this time has passed.
It is not necessary worry about forum, here many more cleverer people, than you. Not all want to be puppies of agents FBI.
That you have deserved, and it receive. And this your lies about the reasons of events as result of "explosions" and remains lies, and it will not change anything.

Again-- I've never disclosed what US Federal Agenc(ies) I worked for on purpose.

I sent you a friendly private personal message asking you for a "cease fire" strictly so other members of this forum don't have to put up with this "fued" imposed by you.

Since you love to spew Russian aphorisms, here's an American one for you which I will adopt....& after this post I will not reply to you again---
"When they go low, we go high"

[Spygirl 1]

Sorry for duplicate message

[Spygirl 1]

Ya know,  this site was friendly, respectiful, & good discussions. So please, I emplore you, go crawl back under your rock & let the rest of us get back to the intended spirit of this forum.
.

It is one more continuation of demagogy. If you yet have not understood, I speak directly: you have received in the answer “delivery by the same money with which tried pay”. And not I began this confrontation. If you would want that treated kindly you, arrive as it.
As speak in boxing: “you are not able hold Blow” © therefore these are audible your squeal and the boorish reference.
Probably you have got used to weak opponents who cannot oppose you anything. Wean, this time has passed.
It is not necessary worry about forum, here many more cleverer people, than you. Not all want to be puppies of agents FBI.
That you have deserved, and it receive. And this your lies about the reasons of events as result of "explosions" and remains lies, and it will not change anything.
[/quote]

Again-- I've never disclosed what US Federal Agenc(ies) I worked for on purpose.

I sent you a friendly private personal message asking you for a "cease fire" strictly so other members of this forum don't have to put up with this "fued" imposed by you.

Since you love to spew Russian aphorisms, here's an American one for you which I will adopt....& after this post I will not reply to you again---
"When they go low, we go high"
[/quote]
[/quote]

[Nigel Evans]

Ball lightning of course being the stated favourite theory of Ivanov who saw all the evidence before confiscation.

Dear Nigel!
I very much want answer you in detail all your questions, but here it is necessary write much, and I now have no such time.Yes well if you spent less time arguing with your new girlfriend you would have more time for your old buddies... 
Therefore I only will make one small remark.
a. Leo Ivanov in the statements (or “the declared favourite theory” (meant not a fireball, and UFO. I do not know that for you will be authoritative opinion but as that we (it was conversation in Fund at Yury Kuntsevich after one of their conferences) concerned this question in conversation with Ivanov's daughter - Aleksandra. She precisely said that it was fond of the UFO and no instead fireball theory.
The english translation of the Leninsky Put article seems to be very clear, Ivanov believed in fireorbs, possibly piloted, firing directed heat rays.
b. Any confiscations of proofs from criminal case was not. These are gossips extended of a source from Korotayev. And Korotayev of anything certain could not tell and each time spoke on another when it asked that he spoke.

In the same Leninsky Put article Ivanov discusses the confiscation of evidence and being ordered to maintain secrecy including lying to the relatives. Some years later Okishev gave interviews where he confirms that this took place. A female radio operator (i do not remember her name) has stated that records were abruptly removed in May 1959 by "competent persons". Just one example of the lost records is the "Ortorten News" sheet found in the tent. All we have is a transcript, the original is lost presumably archived somewhere.
Recently there was a book of writer Nikolay Andreeva ( https://drive.google.com/file/d/1GDQaUgJ5nUDxrFyPLGRe4FZis1LwmVuk/view?usp=sharing it is  in Russian!), there it assorts contradictions in Korotayev's performances much.