FIGHT or FLIGHT scenario verses TIME & TEMPERATURE

[Teddy]

Teddy: This member left this and checked out. I ma not sure if it is of any interest for you but I am copy/pasting it here before deleting it from the Shoutbox.

FIGHT or FLIGHT scenario verses TIME & TEMPERATURE. Suspect: Plausible/Highly Questionable Motive: Plausible Inside Job: Most assuredly, not even a novice climber would exit the only hope for survival unless the greatest threat was coming from the inside. The explanation or execution seems too labor intensive and does not addressing all the “credible” evidence. Dr Joseph Bell, 1837 - 1911, (aka: Sherlock Holmes). Dr. Bell a renown forensic scientist at Edinburgh University. During all his investigations he had a consistent rule when trying to solve a case, death. “Eliminate the *absurd and you are left with the *obvious.” No doubt easier said, then done! TDPI, has both. Just when the events and evidence seems SO *obvious, something *absurd and abased comes to the surface. Of course there is always the possibility that there are “those” who know the truth but have (for whatever reasoning) chosen not to divulge the evidence.

[Investigator]

Yes, there was clearly internal dissension exhibited in the diaries, so I would not entirely rule out an anger-based or "psychotic reaction" explanation.  However, I'd like a reconstruction, because it may be that there was ice buildup on the tent that threatened to collapse it, so that they thought they needed to get that ice off quickly, but the ice ripped the tent or they ripped/cut the tent trying to knock the ice off.  And what if Semyon and Nikolay were outside, as some have speculated, and one or both fell on that one side that was down when the resucers found it (could they have been intoxicated?).  That might have ripped some of the tent, or those inside quickly made a cut to get out, thinking it might be an avalanche.  Once they realized what happened, though, they calmly secured the tent and walked down to the tree line because one or more was certain they'd be able to avoid hypothermia until morning.

[eurocentric]

They wouldn't calmly secure the tent and walk down the pass without the same forward planning ensuring they also took what they needed to survive away from the tent.

There's no sense in preparing for your return, having that power of foresight, if you do not ensure you will still be alive to make that return.

They left not only without adequate clothing, but crucially without one of the 3 axes, the most essential item when deciding to head to woods and start a fire.

[Investigator]

Unless they overestimated the value of the fire.  And either one or more realized this and decided to dig out a "den" to protect against the biggest threat (wind) as soon as they got down there or after it was clear they weren't warming up enough.  Semyon and Nikolay were better dressed so they may have went off to dig the den first.  And without a reconstruction, we simply don't know what would have made sense to them.  For example, if the wind was strong and the only thing they could take that wasn't frozen or wet were the blankets, they might have thought the blankets would blow away.  We know they ripped a lot of branches off the trees, and of course you can't do that if you have a blanket wrapped around you.  There are all kinds of stories like this, where people make incredibly bad decisions under difficult circumstances, for example, the actions of the Chivruay group are also quite puzzling.  Then there are these two:

https://www.rbth.com/history/330020-russia-dyatlov-pass-mystery-analogues

On the other hand, the survivor stories can be incredible in their own ways, for example, from the book
"Eiger Dreams:"

"In 1967, the first party to climb in Alaska's Revelation Mountains, finding themselves stormed in for more than forty of their fifty-two days in the range, managed to stay on the right side of that line almost continuously. Matt Hale recalls coming back to their base camp near the end of the expedition soaked to the skin after a futile, multi-day sortie to collect butterfly specimens, only to encounter a week of horizontal rain and sleet. Driven by gale-force winds right through the walls of his tent, the rain showered the interior of the shelter with a fine, continuous, thirty-four-degree spray that chilled bodies to the bone and reduced sleeping bags to sodden wads of feather and nylon.

"Hale, on the verge of going hypothermic, figured out that the driest way to sleep was to remove all his wet clothing, wedge himself as best he could into his clammy but somewhat waterproof backpack (trying to ignore the fact that it was awash with the remnants of soggy Fig Newtons), pull a rain parka on over that, and only then slither into his wringing-wet sleeping bag..."

Imagine if Hale hadn't survived?  People might be saying he must have lost his mind to do something so strange!

From the book, "No Shortcuts to the Top," we get a sense of what can happen with the gear used by the older generation:

"The old leather boots that climbers favored for more than a century are vastly inferior to plastic, because leather absorbs moisture, which then freezes. It’s a natural recipe for frostbite.  Lachenal and Herzog lost their toes to frostbite on Annapurna in 1950 because they were wearing leather boots. (It’s not as though they had any choice, since plastic boots would not get invented for another thirty years..."

Also in that book:

"When you turn in for the night, anything you need to keep warm goes into the sleeping bag with you. Boot liners, mittens, water bottles, camera, batteries, extra socks, and even the next morning’s fuel canister for the stove..."

Even in recent years there have been odd incidents:

"The elements have claimed a number of victims over the years, with 11 people killed by hypothermia after getting lost or trapped on the mountain. The most recent happened in December of 2011 when snowshoer Brian Grobois became disoriented and descended into Stevens Canyon, where his body was found just above 4,600 feet..."

https://mynorthwest.com/20919/analysis-over-100-climbing-deaths-on-mount-rainier/?

From "K2: Life and Death on the World's Most Dangerous Mountain," there is an incident described which could be very similar to what happened to the Dyatlov Group:

"On the night of August 5, winds that
Diemberger estimated at sixty miles an
hour piled heavy drifts of snow against the
walls of the tent he shared with Tullis,
threatening to break the poles. The
Austrian was incapable of punching his way
loose from inside,.."