Missing eyes

[amashilu]

Lyuda and Zolotaryev were missing their eyes, and it is suggested by many that the cause of this is something natural, such as tissue dissolving rapidly in the watery environment in which they lay, or predatory animals.

Why then are Tibo and Kolevatov NOT missing their eyes, since they were right next to the other two?

[Почемучка]

Lyuda and Zolotaryev were missing their eyes, and it is suggested by many that the cause of this is something natural, such as tissue dissolving rapidly in the watery environment in which they lay, or predatory animals.

Why then are Tibo and Kolevatov NOT missing their eyes, since they were right next to the other two?

В США есть ферма трупов для научных исследований. Гуглом найдите эту информацию. Оказывается  у животных -падальщиков бывают предпочтения в такой пище. Могут поедать один труп, а рядом лежащие - их не интересуют. Даже когда выбранный труп закрывали клеткой, то падальщик не переходил есть другие трупы. Он снова возвращался когда выбранный труп - становился снова доступным.

Кроме того, если не все животные любят воду и возможно водобоязнь победила голод. Если какие-то тела были больше в воде - то это могла быть причина что их не стали поедать падальщики.

There is a corpse farm in the USA for scientific research. Google find this information. It turns out that carrion animals have preferences in such food. They can eat one corpse, and those lying nearby are not interested in them. Even when the selected corpse was covered with a cage, the scavenger did not go over to eat other corpses. He returned again when the selected corpse became available again.

In addition, if not all animals love water and perhaps rabies has overcome hunger. If some bodies were more in the water, then this could be the reason that they were not eaten by scavengers.

[RMK]

Why then are Tibo and Kolevatov NOT missing their eyes, since they were right next to the other two?

Do we know for certain that those two still had eyeballs?  There are morgue photos of Zolotaryov and Dubinina in which it is obvious their eyes are gone, but (for some reason) there are no morgue photos of Thibeaux-Brignolle and Kolevatov.

[ilahiyol]

Why then are Tibo and Kolevatov NOT missing their eyes, since they were right next to the other two?

Do we know for certain that those two still had eyeballs?  There are morgue photos of Zolotaryov and Dubinina in which it is obvious their eyes are gone, but (for some reason) there are no morgue photos of Thibeaux-Brignolle and Kolevatov.

Kolevatov also had no eyes. Only Tibo had eyes. The eyes were definitely not eaten by an animal. If so, it would have been detected.

[Почемучка]

Kolevatov also had no eyes. Only Tibo had eyes. The eyes were definitely not eaten by an animal. If so, it would have been detected.

Откуда Вы взяли основания для такого заявления? Вы не прочли содержание Актов вскрытия? Вы имеете понятие о постмортальных изменениях с органами трупов? Судебная медицина во всех странах дает точное описание что и на какой день случается и при каких условиях внешней среды. Это не очень приятное чтение, тем не менее оно дает представление. Научное представление. Австралийские ученые  фотографировали труп в течении длительного времени, чтобы документально проследить все стадии изменений.

Посмертных фото достаточно и профессионалы могут на этой основе делать вывод насколько описание в Актах - соответствует картине зафиксированной фотографией. Мало того - выемку тел из ручья производили при большом числе наблюдателей. Тела упаковывали чтоб доставить на вскрытие. Это невозможно делать ни с закрытыми глазами, ни в черных очках. Очевидцев слишком много чтоб искажать наблюдения.

Так на каком основании Вы фантазируете?

Where did you get the basis for such a statement? Have you not read the contents of the Autopsy Reports? Do you have any idea about post-mortem changes with the organs of corpses? Forensic medicine in all countries gives an accurate description of what happens on what day and under what environmental conditions. It's not a very pleasant read, but it gives an idea nonetheless. Scientific presentation. Australian scientists photographed the corpse for a long time to document all the stages of change.

There are enough post-mortem photos and professionals can conclude on this basis how much the description in the Acts corresponds to the picture recorded by the photograph. Moreover, the excavation of bodies from the stream was carried out with a large number of observers. The bodies were packed to be delivered for autopsy. It is impossible to do this either with your eyes closed or with black glasses on. There are too many eyewitnesses to distort the observation.

So on what basis do you fantasize?

[tenne]

Why then are Tibo and Kolevatov NOT missing their eyes, since they were right next to the other two?

Do we know for certain that those two still had eyeballs?  There are morgue photos of Zolotaryov and Dubinina in which it is obvious their eyes are gone, but (for some reason) there are no morgue photos of Thibeaux-Brignolle and Kolevatov.

Kolevatov also had no eyes. Only Tibo had eyes. The eyes were definitely not eaten by an animal. If so, it would have been detected.

the autopsies were either so sloppily done or so corruptly done that its impossible to say something was something was there because it wasn't said. Samples that could have proved hypothermia (could potentially) were taken but went missing with the results for just one example.

Either the sloppiness or the corruption or incompetence, not sure which one or a combination of all in this investigation (by the officials, not Teddy), really made this a mystery. Lucky for us, extremely sad for the families and loved one

[amashilu]

Ilahiyol,

The autopsy report says Kolevatov was missing soft tissue around the eyebrows, to such extent that the skull was exposed, but it does not say his eyeballs were missing.

[GlennM]

Aye yi yi, I can't see what you are getting at. I will have to look at this a bit further.That said, my interpretation of the autopsies is that they were responsibly done and conservative in analysis. There was no laxity in that regard. The mention of the corpse farm is a good resource to compare decomposition phenomena. It we are to start with the victim's eyes and work backwards to a cause, that is a a logical, but speculative trail of crumbs.

 I'll keep an eye out for future developments.

[Игорь Б.]

Lyuda and Zolotaryev were missing their eyes, and it is suggested by many that the cause of this is something natural, such as tissue dissolving rapidly in the watery environment in which they lay, or predatory animals.

Why then are Tibo and Kolevatov NOT missing their eyes, since they were right next to the other two?

Здесь всё разъяснено:
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=61104
Предупреждение, по ссылке фото трупа.

[Ziljoe]

Lyuda and Zolotaryev were missing their eyes, and it is suggested by many that the cause of this is something natural, such as tissue dissolving rapidly in the watery environment in which they lay, or predatory animals.

Why then are Tibo and Kolevatov NOT missing their eyes, since they were right next to the other two?

Здесь всё разъяснено:
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=61104
Предупреждение, по ссылке фото трупа.

Below is the translation from Igor B link page.



Regarding the lack of eyes in Dubinina and Zolotarev.
Apparently this is a normal phenomenon for bodies that have been in water for quite a long time.

A drowned woman without eyes, with a partially skeletonized jaw and sliding hair, with a generally fairly good body condition (like Dubinina and Zolotarev):

Attached image (see Igor Bs link)

The fact is that after death, the eyeballs liquefy with diffusion (penetration) of eye fluid into the surrounding tissues. Presumably, the more readily diffusion will occur in a humid environment, for example, in the waters of a stream.

Quote
"In the post-mortem period, proteolysis and fractionation of the vitreous body into formed and liquid parts (post-mortem syneresis) occur, which entails its liquefaction and changes in the fibrillar structure, which leads to disintegration, destruction of the intraocular structure
. tissue, which leads to a gradual failure (retraction) of the eyeballs of the corpse.http://www.sudmed.ru/index.php?showtopic=1...st&p=127232

_ Why did Thibaut and Kolevatov keep their eyes, while Zolotarev and Dubinina didn't?

The process of freezing and thawing has nothing to do with it. The shell of the eyeball is elastic and is not damaged by freezing. The proof of this is the description of the eyes of the first five in the SME acts after thawing.

So what was the difference? It is obvious that Thibault and Kolevatov's eyes were closed and the eyelids protected the eyeballs from the effects of water, while Zolotarev and Dubinina's eyes were open (half-open), which first led to active diffusion of the intraocular fluid into the waters of the stream, and then to complete washing out of the eyeballs.

[amashilu]

Ziljoe, hmmm that's an interesting comment. I guess I have always understood that a dead person's eyes naturally "fall open." All the other hikers' eyes are open. Why do you think Tibo and Kolevatov had closed eyes? Do you see photos of this?

Also, in the description of the natural liquifying of eyeballs post-mortem which you provide, it does not say that a body has to be in water with eyes open for this to happen. It apparently is a biological process that happens to all corpses over time. So why Z and L but not K and T?

[Ziljoe]

Ziljoe, hmmm that's an interesting comment. I guess I have always understood that a dead person's eyes naturally "fall open." All the other hikers' eyes are open. Why do you think Tibo and Kolevatov had closed eyes? Do you see photos of this?


Also, in the description of the natural liquifying of eyeballs post-mortem which you provide, it does not say that a body has to be in water with eyes open for this to happen. It apparently is a biological process that happens to all corpses over time. So why Z and L but not K and T?

It's an explanation to why the eyes are missing . How far k and T eyes were open or closed is irrelevant. There would  be a number of variables that there are differences. The bodies of the ravine 4 were starting to decompose. There is a tipping point to when the tissues start to deteriorate. I understand that it's an on the fence answer and by all means we can speculate but looking at the photos, we can see that Z and L along with the autopsy reports for the ravine 4 were deteriorating. This is reported on their bodies being found.

[ilahiyol]

Ilahiyol,

The autopsy report says Kolevatov was missing soft tissue around the eyebrows, to such extent that the skull was exposed, but it does not say his eyeballs were missing.

Many diaries and cameras were hidden in this investigation. The public was not informed. In that case, I can't trust the autopsy results either. Especially during the cold war period, the Russian state kept everything they wanted and needed from the public. This is something known to everyone. In this investigation, the state must have hidden the information and evidence (true or false) it deems necessary from the public. If there is a human element in a job, it can never be trusted 100%. Always a lie, always a hiding, always a deception. More or less.