potential defensive wound?

[tenne]

"YURI KRIVONISCHENKO palm of the right hand bluish-red color, dark brown skin wound with jagged edges at the base of the thumb"

"Severe laceration of the palmar surface of the hand or partial amputation of fingers may result from the victim grasping the blade of a weapon during an attack"

This is a classic knife attack defensive wound, and in case anyone posts no one was stabbed, I agree they weren't but using a knife to control someone doesn't mean using it to kill them

[Ziljoe]

"YURI KRIVONISCHENKO palm of the right hand bluish-red color, dark brown skin wound with jagged edges at the base of the thumb"

"Severe laceration of the palmar surface of the hand or partial amputation of fingers may result from the victim grasping the blade of a weapon during an attack"

This is a classic knife attack defensive wound, and in case anyone posts no one was stabbed, I agree they weren't but using a knife to control someone doesn't mean using it to kill them

Could you supply the links tenne..plus i thought you said or your theory was they suffered some kind of explosion, then the bodies were found, then they were transported? Where does the knife control come in ?

[Missi]

"YURI KRIVONISCHENKO palm of the right hand bluish-red color, dark brown skin wound with jagged edges at the base of the thumb"

"Severe laceration of the palmar surface of the hand or partial amputation of fingers may result from the victim grasping the blade of a weapon during an attack"

This is a classic knife attack defensive wound, and in case anyone posts no one was stabbed, I agree they weren't but using a knife to control someone doesn't mean using it to kill them

Isn't a jagged edge of the wound rather pointing away from a cut by a knife? I'd say a jagged edge rather appears when it's something not as sharp as a knife and the wound becomes more a tearing cut...

[tenne]

"YURI KRIVONISCHENKO palm of the right hand bluish-red color, dark brown skin wound with jagged edges at the base of the thumb"

"Severe laceration of the palmar surface of the hand or partial amputation of fingers may result from the victim grasping the blade of a weapon during an attack"

This is a classic knife attack defensive wound, and in case anyone posts no one was stabbed, I agree they weren't but using a knife to control someone doesn't mean using it to kill them

Could you supply the links tenne..plus i thought you said or your theory was they suffered some kind of explosion, then the bodies were found, then they were transported? Where does the knife control come in ?

the link to the wound is from the autopsy report and the other was just some information i googled because I had just watched a detective show and they were talking about defensive wounds on the hands. I am open to any ideas of what could have happened. I have a theory but I'm always open to new information

[tenne]

"YURI KRIVONISCHENKO palm of the right hand bluish-red color, dark brown skin wound with jagged edges at the base of the thumb"

"Severe laceration of the palmar surface of the hand or partial amputation of fingers may result from the victim grasping the blade of a weapon during an attack"

This is a classic knife attack defensive wound, and in case anyone posts no one was stabbed, I agree they weren't but using a knife to control someone doesn't mean using it to kill them

Isn't a jagged edge of the wound rather pointing away from a cut by a knife? I'd say a jagged edge rather appears when it's something not as sharp as a knife and the wound becomes more a tearing cut...

I was thinking a serrated knife but you could be right

[GlennM]

Well, it must have been a cold trembling hand that picked the thing up and ...oops!

[tenne]

No, I am thinking its a defensive wound, typical of fending off a knife attack. this type of wound is well documented from the victim grabbing the knife blade, I was thinking they grabbed the serrated edge

[GlennM]

Is this like being attacked with a bread knife? Didn't the hikers equip with pocket knives and Flemish knives?  Who is going to bring a bread knife to take on 9 people? Speaking of which, I don't believe there was any mention anywhere of bloody knives...and there were a few knives found.

[tenne]

how many people leave the knife behind after they use it? Not sure why you think a murderer would just leave it? do you think they would wrap it in a pretty bow as well and leave a note so the officials know who did and why?

[Ziljoe]

how many people leave the knife behind after they use it? Not sure why you think a murderer would just leave it? do you think they would wrap it in a pretty bow as well and leave a note so the officials know who did and why?

A murderer took a knife to cut someone's hand with a small scratch?

[tenne]

Do you actually have any idea what a DEFENSIVE wound is? I don't think so and I'm done educating people on what very simple google searches could produce

[Ziljoe]

If a person was using a knife to attack , then I would expect more wounds than the small cut.

"YURI KRIVONISCHENKO palm of the right hand bluish-red color, dark brown skin wound with jagged edges at the base of the thumb"

"Severe laceration of the palmar surface of the hand or partial amputation of fingers may result from the victim grasping the blade of a weapon during an attack"

This is a classic knife attack defensive wound, and in case anyone posts no one was stabbed, I agree they weren't but using a knife to control someone doesn't mean using it to kill them

You quote "Severe laceration of the palmar surface of the hand or partial amputation of fingers may result from the victim grasping the blade of a weapon during an attack"

Severe laceration of the Palmar surface  or partial amputation of fingers is not reported in the autopsy or by any searchers to my knowledge.

If they are using a knife to control people and this is a knife wound , I would expect to see more wounds ?.

Plus I thought you said it was an explosion that happened and they died of hypothermia.

[Ehtnisba]

Do you actually have any idea what a DEFENSIVE wound is? I don't think so and I'm done educating people on what very simple google searches could produce

All their knuckles are also offenssive/self deffense wounds.

[GlennM]

Do you actually have any idea what a DEFENSIVE wound is? I don't think so and I'm done educating people on what very simple google searches could produce

Of course we do not know these things. It is the sole reason we,seek enlightenment from someone who not only knows the term but actually lives it. Count me impressed.

[Ziljoe]

Do you actually have any idea what a DEFENSIVE wound is? I don't think so and I'm done educating people on what very simple google searches could produce

All their knuckles are also offenssive/self deffense wounds.

How are they self defense wounds? What else could these wounds/ injuries be caused by ? You state they are self defense or offense. Maybe at the shops, but they are not self defense wounds from murder. Unless they stood still and let themselves be killed. If you know you are in a fight, to the death, you fight back more than the injuries that are reported. The injuries indicate general injuries against the elements. Climbing trees, using hands to get wood, walking on all fours and so on.

[amashilu]

Here is a good link from a previous thread almost identical to this one:

https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=333.0

[GlennM]

The point being that a wound is a wound. Unless you were there it is speculation regarding it being offensive or defensive, let alone mutual combat. The fact of the matter is the kids got hurt. The further fact is they show evidence of that hurt. Conclusion, they got in over their heads.

[Ziljoe]

Here is a good link from a previous thread almost identical to this one:

https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=333.0

The wounds are superficial. Other than the ravine 4 . The ravine 4 were found under several feet of hard snow. The wounds on the 5 found were not cause of death. Yes we can argue that the wounds show signs of potential hand to hand violence but we can also argue that they are caused by fighting the environment.

If it was hand to hand, I would expect more violence. Especially on defensive wounds . Broken Knuckle , using teeth, ripped clothes , deeper cuts from ropes, broken eye sokets,  broken jaws, missing teeth etc. Just a thought....

[GlennM]

As I read the daily synopsis leading up to the Feb. 2nd anniversary,,I am thinking of things. Although the group ostensibly did the hike to achieve grade 3 certification, it appears that there was a not so subtle undercurrent of defiance within the group., Igor was said to be a leader people wished to go with, but was his leadership effective? They do not roll out of bed when they agree to, members are punished and stand watch, they are not eating enough and those who smoke are not smoking. They have to break trail. Clothing gets burned. The beat up tent needs patching and that ends up being a power struggle. There is some boyfriend/girlfriend breakup tension simmering. The hiking plan gets spontaneously changed at the labaz, and all this happens no more than 72 hours after leaving civilization.
In short, instead of a disciplined, focused goal oriented expedition, what we see are people vying for power in an inhospitable remote environment.

I could envision a shouting match culminating with  slashing the tent, just because and one more people storming out into the weather in big pout. Perhaps cool heads( no pun intended) do not prevail. If taken to an extreme, the entire group find themselves on a one way trip down the slope trying to rescue a fractured team. It does not end well

[ilahiyol]

As I read the daily synopsis leading up to the Feb. 2nd anniversary,,I am thinking of things. Although the group ostensibly did the hike to achieve grade 3 certification, it appears that there was a not so subtle undercurrent of defiance within the group., Igor was said to be a leader people wished to go with, but was his leadership effective? They do not roll out of bed when they agree to, members are punished and stand watch, they are not eating enough and those who smoke are not smoking. They have to break trail. Clothing gets burned. The beat up tent needs patching and that ends up being a power struggle. There is some boyfriend/girlfriend breakup tension simmering. The hiking plan gets spontaneously changed at the labaz, and all this happens no more than 72 hours after leaving civilization.
In short, instead of a disciplined, focused goal oriented expedition, what we see are people vying for power in an inhospitable remote environment.

I could envision a shouting match culminating with  slashing the tent, just because and one more people storming out into the weather in big pout. Perhaps cool heads( no pun intended) do not prevail. If taken to an extreme, the entire group find themselves on a one way trip down the slope trying to rescue a fractured team. It does not end well

These are still young people. They are considered half children. Between the ages of 19-25... Of course, there will be a little fight and discussion. These are situations that would be considered normal for young people of that age. I think there were some who just met each other. This is also a factor. Of course, harsh weather conditions also caused tension. But no reason can cause to cut a tent and leave in the pitch dark and cold at night. There is a saying that "even people who are enemies become friends in difficult situations" and it is very true.

[Ehtnisba]

Do you actually have any idea what a DEFENSIVE wound is? I don't think so and I'm done educating people on what very simple google searches could produce

All their knuckles are also offenssive/self deffense wounds.

How are they self defense wounds? What else could these wounds/ injuries be caused by ? You state they are self defense or offense. Maybe at the shops, but they are not self defense wounds from murder. Unless they stood still and let themselves be killed. If you know you are in a fight, to the death, you fight back more than the injuries that are reported. The injuries indicate general injuries against the elements. Climbing trees, using hands to get wood, walking on all fours and so on.

Never have said deffensive. Offensive - you hit somebody with fist as act of fight against that somebody. What is not clear? When do you fight? From outer figure or your friends are in a fight. From what you can injure your knuckles except from hit with your fist?

[GlennM]

Every day is boxing day here.