Avalanche theory...again

[ahabmyth]

Re The Avalanche Theory  or How an avalanche cannot occur without snow.
The route taken came over the back of 1079 according to maps and supposedly they built a labaz en-route.
It is my opinion that the tent was erected near the Cyprus and that this was the reason why the 3 were found "in the direction of the Labaz" and not any tent. The hikers needed many supplies to survive including medical kit, saw,ice hammers,blankets and maybe matches.
Logically the tent was erected at the Cedar as Teddy insisted but had a fight with a rotten tree.. " Why else were the 3 found going back up the mountain" ???, because Igor realised the group could not survive at the rate fuel was being used at the fire, food was no problem but warmth was. And this was the reason he asked the two strongest hikers to help him get to the Labaz. Unfortunately he underestimated the weather.                                                                                     ---------------------------------------------------------------- 

  A very good reason not to run down a slope with Korumbniki. in the dark and with backpacks.---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------.

[Ziljoe]

Re The Avalanche Theory  or How an avalanche cannot occur without snow.
The route taken came over the back of 1079 according to maps and supposedly they built a labaz en-route.
It is my opinion that the tent was erected near the Cyprus and that this was the reason why the 3 were found "in the direction of the Labaz" and not any tent. The hikers needed many supplies to survive including medical kit, saw,ice hammers,blankets and maybe matches.
Logically the tent was erected at the Cedar as Teddy insisted. Why else were the 3 found going back up the mountain.                                                                                         ---------------------------------------------------------------- 

  A very good reason not to run down a slope with Korumbniki. in the dark and with backpacks.---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------.

No snow , no show!.

Avalanches happen about 600 meters away , it's been vidieod or reported , traces disappear in 2 hours . The level of the snow changes constantly, it's why we have the raised foot prints , which means the snow level that the hikers walked on, was higher than when the searchers arrived . However, the 3 on the slope were covered by snow meaning the snow gathered over them in three weeks. Ultimately the scene of the incident would not look the same after 3 weeks of snow and wind when the searchers arrived.

Building a labaz on a slope and under snow , is far from ideal , in my opinion, as it means twice the work and having to find the labaz in a potential snow storm on an exposed mountain range. You would have to pack and unpack equipment, why?, when shelter of the trees is basically 1 mile all around you.

All the supplies would be with you and the tent, including saws, matches etc. They left the bulk of the food in the labaz , along with the banjo . There is no need to carry 50kg of food up a slope , put it in a hole and come back to dig it up when you will be going back down the slope to camp in the relative safety of the forest.

It's the build up of snow on the ridge above the tent that has potential to cause a small avalanche. Some of the slope above the tent is recorded over 25 degrees ( I can't find the profile at the moment).

[ahabmyth]

Re The Avalanche Theory  or How an avalanche cannot occur without snow.
The route taken came over the back of 1079 according to maps and supposedly they built a labaz en-route.
It is my opinion that the tent was erected near the Cyprus and that this was the reason why the 3 were found "in the direction of the Labaz" and not any tent. The hikers needed many supplies to survive including medical kit, saw,ice hammers,blankets and maybe matches.
Logically the tent was erected at the Cedar as Teddy insisted. Why else were the 3 found going back up the mountain.                                                                                         ---------------------------------------------------------------- 

  A very good reason not to run down a slope with Korumbniki. in the dark and with backpacks.---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------.

No snow , no show!.

Avalanches happen about 600 meters away , it's been vidieod or reported , traces disappear in 2 hours . The level of the snow changes constantly, it's why we have the raised foot prints , which means the snow level that the hikers walked on, was higher than when the searchers arrived . However, the 3 on the slope were covered by snow meaning the snow gathered over them in three weeks. Ultimately the scene of the incident would not look the same after 3 weeks of snow and wind when the searchers arrived.

Building a labaz on a slope and under snow , is far from ideal , in my opinion, as it means twice the work and having to find the labaz in a potential snow storm on an exposed mountain range. You would have to pack and unpack equipment, why?, when shelter of the trees is basically 1 mile all around you.

All the supplies would be with you and the tent, including saws, matches etc. They left the bulk of the food in the labaz , along with the banjo . There is no need to carry 50kg of food up a slope , put it in a hole and come back to dig it up when you will be going back down the slope to camp in the relative safety of the forest.

It's the build up of snow on the ridge above the tent that has potential to cause a small avalanche. Some of the slope above the tent is recorded over 25 degrees ( I can't find the profile at the moment).

Totally agree with you Ziljoe I wouldnt find digging  in frozen ground on a hill full of rocks exactly pleasant . However there is a map on the forum that shows a labaz not to far from the proposed tent site on the side of 1079 and judging by one of the last pics they took it does show them digging/levelling an area, could this be the "tent site or a Labaz".
There is also the possibility that it indeed was a labaz as the group needed the height to carry on towards Otorten and a labaz on the way back was suitable at this spot.
 As stupid as it sounds (talking about weight) maybe Igor has said they need to suck it up build an (overnight labaz) because of the weather then go down to the treeline to erect the tent and walk back up again in the morning.
The only problem with this theory is was a labaz found further back on their treck, cant say we have heard about one, but then again could it have been missed.

[Ziljoe]

Totally agree with you Ziljoe I wouldnt find digging  in frozen ground on a hill full of rocks exactly pleasant . However there is a map on the forum that shows a labaz not to far from the proposed tent site on the side of 1079 and judging by one of the last pics they took it does show them digging/levelling an area, could this be the "tent site or a Labaz".
There is also the possibility that it indeed was a labaz as the group needed the height to carry on towards Otorten and a labaz on the way back was suitable at this spot.
 As stupid as it sounds (talking about weight) maybe Igor has said they need to suck it up build an (overnight labaz) because of the weather then go down to the treeline to erect the tent and walk back up again in the morning.
The only problem with this theory is was a labaz found further back on their treck, cant say we have heard about one, but then again could it have been missed.

[/quote]

Perhaps they thought about it. , The concept of building a labaz or store somewhere around dyatlov pass fits the logic of hiking . Dyatlov pass is a key point of the return pathway , it's here that the planned route crosses or comes close enough to build the labaz to save carrying the extra weight. It would be unproductive to carry it from the last campsite .

It would seem there's three options for the hikers to build the labaz, 1) where it was found 2) at the ceder 3) on the slope of 1079

Options 1 and 2 make the most sense. They are both in the tree line . That gives them the option to cut extra logs for the return camp and an established place to camp. All the hard work is done for the night and you can pack the backpacks from scratch the next morning.

But choosing location 2( at the ceder) means you have carried the extra weight over dyatlov pass ( up hill and further from the return path)  less logic as you have carried the food to another valley .

If it is option 3 , on the slope of 1079 it adds the problems as mentioned in the previous post , that is they would need the guarantee of a clear weather window to find the labaz on the slope . It would mean stopping on the slope , unpacking their packs , redistribution of all the food across 9 back packs , packing it all up and then moving onto the next campsite. I suppose we could argue that they might set up the tent on the return leg on the slope  next to this supposed labaz to carry on the next along the ridges but the last thing you would want is to be lost from your supplies . That being said , they would have a quick exit by going back they way the came and not finishing the loop.

The last photo shows atleast 5 people in a row, too big for a labaz in my opinion and we have the alleged location of the found labaz .

If it's any other option other than what we have been told , then someone is running about digging up food stores and moving tents whilst leaving no trace and managing to cope with the environment.