Being able to walk 1 mile with fatal trauma

[Osi]

We can read from the photographs that Semyon, Lyutmila, Tibo and Rüstem strengthened their bonds of friendship. I think the same sincerity is experienced in tent sharing. At the northeastern end of the tent; I assume that Yuri 1, Yuri 2, Zina, Dyatlov and Kolovetov got into a sleeping position with their formation, Liyutmila, Semyon, Tibo and Rustem got into a sitting position at the exit of the tent, they would soon get ready to go into a sleeping position, and Rustem even took off one of his shoes. Although I have repeatedly argued that the injuries of the last 4 were related to the collapse or fall in the valley (no one can go that far with these injuries, (I am convinced by those who argue that he cannot)) I have a strong feeling that May 4th met his fatal fate in the tent. I can be convinced that several people were carried into the forest, willingly or  unwillingly, by their friends, even if they were mortally traumatized. I can be convinced that Zolo and Tibo were resilient enough to leave footprints when being carried. did they walk calmly and without falling apart? To answer the question: We assume that the environment is dark and the terrain is rough and slippery. To add one more important reason; of the injured; We can assume that it was carried by 2 or a single person with their arms on their shoulders. If it is necessary to make a match; The semi-conscious Liyutmila was being shouldered by one person. There are no footprints. Tibo could walk with the help of 2 people until he reached the cedar. Zolotaryov was walking with the support of 1 person and leaving footprints. Only two people move freely and lead the way into the forest. Then they join the group to help. The first thing is to identify a snow cave. Cedar and fire are gone for now. Tibo, who is completely unconscious, is laid in the innermost part of the cave where May 4 is located. Zolotaryov is next to him. Since Lyutmila shows signs of life, he is laid at the entrance of the cave for easier first aid. This cave, which is on a water bed, does not give any confidence and they feel the need to build a more modern house a little further into the cave. 2 yuri donate their clothes to Lyutmila and the house, confident that they can light a fire. Zina and Dyatlov move to the tent to replenish the inadequate equipment. 2 After Yuri dies, Kolovatov returns to the cave, lies down next to Tibo in the innermost part, and falls asleep, dreaming of reaching the morning. Rustam; After everyone quiets down, they head towards the hillside.

[GlennM]

I believe you are advancing the idea that the serious injuries happened at the tent. If this is so, I would expect to see evidence of the objects that did the damage. I would expect the trail of footprints to show dragging. It seems natural to me to expect a sling or drag cloth would be used to evacuate the injured. The tent canvas was a ready resource.

I support the idea that they were compelled to leave the tent. I think a snow slide and the fear of a greater slide compelled them to shelter in the woods overnight. Once there, I like the idea that they found the ravine and attempted to make shelter, but failed at it.

[Osi]

Dp group; I think they came together when faced with an overwhelming force that they could not overcome. It is an inconsistency that, as a result of possibilities such as rocket explosion, rocket gas, alien attack, some people receive the same type of injuries while others show no signs of injury. Human-made and alien-made things do not choose men. It is consistent with the crushing power of a plate that less-clothed people are least affected by the damage of a striking plate if they lie down to sleep, while those who are better insulated suffer more damage. Since they were standing and sitting, they could not escape the crushing force. It was previously said that the sliding plate was blown away and lost.

[Arjan]

Thought experiment
The kind of thought experiment Einstein had with Bohr on Quantum Mechanics in the 20s of last century.

Let's assume that no outsiders have entered and/or manipulated the scenery as found by both search parties
Let's assume that the autopsy reports and the photos made in the mortuary and by both search parties are genuine.
Let's assume that the opinion of experts stating that Lyudmila had been able 15 minutes or less, after she had been fatally injured.

As a consequence of these three assumption, it is highly likely that:
- Lyudmila had not been able to walk any distance at all (if any steps at all!), she may well have lost consciousness for the last time by the medical shock resulting from trauma.
- Lyudmila had died on - or near - the place where she had been found by the second search party in May

Secundaire details supporting these consequences are:
- the footprint near the tent don't show any sign of a wounded person being carried by other group members.

Based on these three assumptions, I am pretty certain that Lyudmila had seen the last time in her life:
- the stream wherein she had found lying by the second search party

[GlennM]

The issue is whether she and Zolo received crushed ribs prior to death or after. If prior, then what cause? There is no evidence of a blast radius. There is no evidence of cornice collapse, there is no evidence of a treefall, there is no evidence of physical combat. There is no evidence either body was posed.

Lyuda's posture indicates exhaustion or diffuculty in breathing. In her case, one does not find relief being immersed in flowing water. That is for burns! Further, we do not know if she climbed up or slid down to that final posture.

On the other hand, if Lyuda's and Zolo's injuries are owing to the crush of months of snow, then it is a miracle the other two in the ravine were spared similar bone injuries. It seems more likely they , Lyuda and Zolo were together. That also suggests they were alive when injured.

 If they all were sheltered in the ravine when Zolo and Lyuda got hurt, the humane response from others would be to rescue and  treat both of them by propping them up or laying each on a pallet as the rescuers instincts dictated.

Circling back to the causes, what is clear to me is there is no residual trace for the cause of the crushing injuries. Therefore, the cause must be transient. Of all the elements present, water in the form of snow is most abundant. An embankment provided elevation. I am going to support the idea of a collapsed cornice injuring those two who may have first ventured out alone to find shelter from the wind.

[Arjan]

Based on the photos made by the second search party, it is pretty certain that Semyon and Lyudmila had been placed in the postures as found, by other humans.

Several times I have considered a post "Two broken ribcages compared".

Both broken ribcages - as seen on photos made in the mortuary - show from the outside a fully different kind of injury:
- The ribcage fracture of Semyon looks far more worse: his ribcage had been indented/collapsed/crushed
- The ribcage fracture of Lyudmila is hardly - or not - visible.

Experts at that time (and more recent) regard the ribcage fracture of Lyudmila as fatal (within 15 minutes). The ribcage fracture of Semyon is regarded as 'only' serious: he had died due to Hypothermia.
Experts in posts state that both ribcages are caused by a bomb or by a car accident with a speed of more than 60 km/u or so.

There had been no cars in and around the ravine, so we may assume - 99,999 % certainty that these ribcage fractures had not been caused by a car accident.

Why had Semyon an indented ribcage and Lyudmila not?
The most plausible explanation is:
- some 12 hours after he had lost consciousness for the last time due to hypothermia (or the next day around 11 pm), he had been placed on top of another group member and hereby his allready broken ribcage had been indented or
- during the transport from the ravine to mortuary, his - allready fully defrosted - ribcage had received an impact resulting in indention.

Why does Lyudmila's ribcage show no - or hardly any - injury on skin and/or deformation, while she had been fatally wounded by her broken ribcage?

The only plausible answer I can come up with is:
- universal and all around compression during a few milliseconds causing the fatally crushing of her ribcage
- universal and all around expansion of her ribcage for one second or so, letting the ribcage expand a little beyond its normal shape
- after a second or so, the ribcage returns to its normal shape as if - from the outside - no injury had taken place at all

Remark:
During my education as engineer applied physics I have learned many things, amongst others:
- a meshmellow had been compressed and expanded in an transparent expansion vessel: within limits the meshmellow shinks and expands considerably without any traces afterwards.
- test pressure vessels with water; and never ever with air, because water will hardly compress while air can store an awfull lot of energy resulting in disasterous effects on the environment.

The human body can withstand limited pressure waves rather well, except the hollow parts of the body, like the ribcage.
Pig studies show that ribcage fractures caused by pressure waves are very hard - if at all - to reproduce by other kinds of trauma.

If it smell, tasts, looks like a pressure wave that has caused the ribcage fracture of Lyudmila, the cause may well have been a pressure wave.

Why is the shape of the ravine 'ideal' to cause a ribcage fracture for Lyudmila and Semyon, while Thibo does not show traces of a rib cage fracture?
- Lyudmila and Semyon had been standing in the ravine, that 'works as a hollow lense' for a pressure wave, resulting in 200 % magnification of the pressure around the ribcage
- Thibo had been standing on the top of one side of the ravine - that works as a convex lense', resulting in a considerable reduction of the pressure around the ribcage.

The nasty feature of pressure waves - with the epicentre high in the air - is: one cannot hide anywhere, not behind a wall, not in a hole. Within a hollow ditch, humans will be hit worse.

The next day, other humans have very probably tried to retrieve her from the ravine, because nearly any of us die with a raised arm, unless rigor mortis has already developed in the joints.

All information above is not my opinion: it is physics and 'human nature before and after death by hypothermia'.

Additional remarks:
- a hypersonic - moderate - pressure wave (lasting only a few milliseconds) will accelerate tiny particles to high speed, but will hardly accelerate massive objects like human bodies, trees.
- hollow objects and hollow parts of the human bodies will be seriously/fatally compressed and expanded afterwards
- blood in 'bloodvessel with valves' may damage the valves in the bloodvessels
- high speed particles will injure eyes
- snow - hollow structure - will melt.
- light ball in the air have been witnessed.
Again, if it smells like a pressure wave, if it tastes like a pressure wave, if it looks like a pressure wave, it may well have been a pressure wave, or not?

Of course many other theories are possible when:
- outsiders have intervened one way or another
- post mortem reports, photos in the mortuary and photos by both search parties have been manipulated.

Sorry in case I am overdoing in my replies, I have noted myself as well that I am repeating myself again and again in replies. 

 
 
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[Ziljoe]

@ I wouldn't worry about repeating yourself, we all do it!

I think we need to be cautious about quoting experts and the sources . Many quotes have been manipulated by  the various media sources that make documentaries and news paper articles, they are made for entertainment and many times , journalists will exaggerate claims and heavily edit what experts actually said. They often miss quote as do people that have a bias as to what happened.

For example, I shall provide this link that says the the rib fractures are not a result of a blast wave and there is the possibility of a snow collapse at the ravine causing crush injuries .

This a recent review of Zolotaryov's rib  fractures after his exhumation.

https://dyatlovpass.com/zolotaryov-exhumation-2

In the link ." At our request, exhumation was conducted by forensic expert of the Moscow Bureau of Forensic Expertise Sergey Nikitin. Also at the cemetery was a tragedy researcher, doctor Galina Sazonova. We talked with them on the radio "Komsomolskaya Pravda" (97.2 Moscow), where they commented on the first results of the examinations."

Below is part of the transcript .
"
GS: In 1959, the forensic pathologist described that there were two fracture lines of Zolotaryov ribs. "After the extraction of the organs from the thoracic and abdominal cavities, fractures of the second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth ribs on the right along the parasternal line and midaxillary line are determined." How much did it coincide with what we saw?
SN: This coincided almost completely. Except for a small minor amendment. I would define the axillary line not as an average, but as a back axillary line. Some bones were not examined. We looked at the right shoulder blade, there were three fractures. The act of this was not noted. I assumed first that this is a posthumous injury. The whole grave was covered with pieces of granite, the pressure on the bones of the skeleton can't be ignored. But then I reassessed, because the left shoulder was intact. If there were posthumous damages, it is logical to assume that both the left shoulder blade would be broken and in general would be other multiple fractures on the bones of the skeleton.
GS: Yes, we did not see damages like that. We found much more fragile bones. Even thyroid cartilage. And the skull itself is not crushed. It turns out that this weight had no effect on the bones.
SN: During the burial after the funeral the stones were laid to form a vault. They didn't press down. The ribs were broken on the right, and the right shoulder blade. This fits into the mechanism of fracture of the ribs.
GS: Is it correct to say that the chest as a construction can have structural fractures? In other words, one blow could cause several fractures?
SN: This indicates that at the contact zone, the impact exceeded the sizes from the first to the sixth rib. It was a large heavy mass. Most likely, snow.
GS: Can you determine when this injury took place?
SN: The presence of blood in the pleural cavity of Zolotaryov unequivocally indicates that he was alive.
GS: In what position was the person at the time of injury?
SN: It can be undoubtedly said that he was lying on his back. And the traumatic effect occurred from front to back, maybe some what from right to left.
GS: The surface on which the person was lying was relatively firm?
SN: Yes. It is unlikely that he was lying in the snow.
GS: You found that not all ribs are broken equally. Is it possible to say that the force that acted on the thorax in full force acted where the ribs are completely broken? And where they didn't brake completely, it seems like the impact was less?
SN: The ribs on the axillary line have broken as a result of excessive bending. This is called the flexural nature of the fractures. In the parasternal line, the character of the fractures was extensor. This suggests that the traumatic event occurred at the time when the person was lying on his back, and suggests the direction where the mass came from.
GS: Like as if squeezed a concrete slab? Or is it from the compression of a blow? There is a theory that a lot of snow has fallen.
SN: Was it impact or slow squeezing that took some time? When the corpse is examined not to the extent of decomposition in which the corpse of Zolotaryov was at the time of the autopsy, there are soft tissues, subcutaneous fatty tissue, one can estimate the hemorrhage into the subcutaneous fatty tissue. If it was a blow, we would see hemorrhages in the muscles and subcutaneous fatty tissue. If this mass of the snow layer type squeezed gradually, it is unlikely that we would see hemorrhaging.
GS: Hemorrhages were noted at the autopsy. And on histology, and in the act.
SN: This suggests that it was a sudden pressure, a velocity impact. Not gradual.
Cor: It's like a blow, lets say, by a car?
SN: A car is a comparison. In our case, we can say that this was the impact of a large mass.
GS: Could it be caused by explosive blast?
SN: It can be safely excluded. Injuries would be of a different nature."

I have underlined some parts that I deem interesting. I can not argue the point for or against the observations as I'm not an expert in rib fractures, bomb blasts or car crashes. However , he seems to have some credentials and most importantly is physically looking at the bones and evidence before him..

The autopsy photos of Zolotaryov and lyuda tell us little and I don't think we can make assumptions from those two photos , if you already believe some photos are fake , why not these two photos?. The two autopsy photos look like they are after  the chest has been opened and organs removed as stated in the autopsy, I don't know if they replace the organs or fill the cavity with other things for open casket funerals . I believe there are different ways of embalming the remains, some are put back in to the chest, others in a bag in the bottom of the coffin. With regards to Zolotaryov and lyuda bodies, they were not in condition for open casket and had already started to decay. Lyuda's breast tissue also fills in the void that is more evident in Zolotaryov's rib cage .

[Arjan]

Thank you for your answer Ziljoe.

I have studied the excavation of Semyon, the interviews and the photo's thereof.

On the photos of the ribcage as excavated, I have carefully looked for traces of so called butterfly fractures: I have not found these.
Maybe the small butterfly parts of the ribs, had gone/decayed, or these had never been present.

If I remember well, several years ago I read on the website DyatlovPass that a trauma surgeon had said that the ribcage fractures had been caused by an impact like a car accident or like a bomb.

Within the theory/timeline I have drafted, the ribcage of Semyon had received two impact;
1. by the pressure wave
2. during placement of three bodies next to each other near the stream, or during transport from the ravine to the mortuary.

Maybe you have noted that I have not speculated much on the source of the pressure wave high in the air.
The reason is: there had been a cold war at that time and several sources might be possible.

If I remember well, the journalist collective Aleksej Rakitin suggested bombs on parachutes.
To chase away disturb USA spionage airplanes?
One year later, one of these had been shot down in this area, if I remember well.

Another source is a meteor.

Of course I am not naive: all information in the case files may be staged in order to prevent outsiders peeping in the backyard with Uranium mines owned by a 'big brown bear' with little eyes and ears that sees more than most of us can imagine.
I would not fall stupified from my chair, when the expert interviewed after the excavation had received instructions to 'frame' the outcome in the direction that suits a 'big brown bear'.

My conclusion: solving the case is like walking through curved mirror palaces/maze where every step results in another fully different view on the case.

By arranging the details - under assumptions - I think there is a way through and out of this curved mirror maze, that fits the relevant details in case these details are genuine.   

[GlennM]

Big brown bears do not kill wee tourists in order to keep the bear's den a secret. Such behavior would serve to attract hunters with mighty weapons who wish to expose the bear's secrets.

[Ziljoe]

@ Arjan, thank you also.

I agree a trauma surgeon would say such things , I suspect this would  be a controlled question  to this surgeon with out all the known potential facts.

However, your comment about the parachutes made me have a Google. The U2 spy plane operates up to an altitude of 70000 thousand feet , parachutes don't work in thin air at they altitude, not as we understand them anyway.

This made me look look further, apparently the west was using balloons with cameras to spy on the Soviet Union and I found this ...

Soviet Union (USSR, Russia) accuses USA of spying from balloons.



Various shots of press conference at Ministry of Foreign Affairs (in Moscow?) for Soviet and Western journalists.  Various shots of unmanned balloon, cameras, radios equipment and parachutes found near Russian border, all equipment is made in USA.  An expert army officer gives an explanation to the press, pointing out the balloons could damage Soviet telephone lines and are breaking international laws.  The reporters inspect the equipment which is on display.



Date on dope sheet is February 1956.

https://youtu.be/Cdygl3pkPOY?si=Y6ecAwa7wkfQ6P6x

I respect your approach to the case , although I lean towards a environment cause .

All things equal I hope this video might be of interest to you and the community. It's new to me and others may be able to investigate it further

[GlennM]

Are not the prevailing winds going from Russia to the USA? In the North Pacific, I believe both wind and ocean current go that way.

[Ziljoe]

Are not the prevailing winds going from Russia to the USA? In the North Pacific, I believe both wind and ocean current go that way.

For me, I have no idea . All I know was that the paranoid powers that we all suffer were playing cat and mouse with each other . Maybe not much has changed, just the technology?

[GlennM]

Ziljoe, you are right, my friend.  They gave that brand of insanity a name, the Zero Sum Game. It was all about escalating tensions until one or the other blinked first and hoped the other didn't take advantage, or if they did it was mutually assured destruction. It was and is a dangerous game. Our current world leaders are sizing each other up,  sigh!

It could very well be that the whole UFO craze began with wartime weather balloons being spotted where they ought not to be.