Unanswered questions

[Clacon]

Hi All,

Complete and utter novice here - this is the first forum I've actually ever joined! But the subject matter has become something of an obsession for me and I wanted to ask others more well versed on this incident what their feelings are. Please bear with me.

My first set of questions regard the 2 men under the tree.

Speculation and logic (I suppose) point to the fact that they died first as they were the most underdressed and their clothes were found on others.
Am I mistaken or is there also evidence to suggest their bodies were overturned to get clothes off after death?
Why do you think they died first?

Why are they the only 2 with burns? Is the general consensus that those 2 climbed the tree and fell into the fire? Prompting them to die first?

Why are there charred articles of clothing? Were they burning their clothes to kindle the fire? Would they not have been wet?
I have read a theory that they were so cold they burned themselves sticking limbs into the fire to keep warm. That doesn't explain the burning of hair of one of them though. Why would you put your head into fire to keep warm?

I know there is a picture of a pretty badly burned jacket on one of the hikers. Was that coat found ON anyone? Was it in the tent? Does anyone know? I'd like to separate that burnt coat  from the ones on the 2 men as seperate burning incidents, as I think that would help with the confusion.

I noted on the autopsies that Doroshenko had frostbite on his fingers. Is the damage to Krivonischenko's right fingers considered to be frostbite too??

It is interesting to note that only Doroshenko and Zinaida Kolmogorova had chronicled frostbite damage to their fingers. Do you think that they all did but it just wasn't noted by the coroner? Do you think this is a significant detail??

Okay, I think I'm going to leave it at that for now as I have so many more questions I'm not only going to confuse you all but myself too, jumping from topic top topic.


Thank you

[Nigel Evans]

Hi All,

Complete and utter novice here - this is the first forum I've actually ever joined! But the subject matter has become something of an obsession for me and I wanted to ask others more well versed on this incident what their feelings are. Please bear with me.

My first set of questions regard the 2 men under the tree.

Speculation and logic (I suppose) point to the fact that they died first as they were the most underdressed and their clothes were found on others.
Am I mistaken or is there also evidence to suggest their bodies were overturned to get clothes off after death?
Why do you think they died first?Hi there, i'd agree looks like they died first and were turned to retrieve clothing. My theory is that Yuri D died from a pulmonary edema indicated by the foam on his cheek. Yuri K is more difficult, but i would guess that it was shock from the burn (he bit the back of his hand off and died before spitting or swallowing the skin).

Why are they the only 2 with burns? Is the general consensus that those 2 climbed the tree and fell into the fire? Prompting them to die first?Probably Yuri K fell on him and they both got burnt from the fire. Or it was electrical!

Why are there charred articles of clothing? Were they burning their clothes to kindle the fire? Would they not have been wet?
I have read a theory that they were so cold they burned themselves sticking limbs into the fire to keep warm. That doesn't explain the burning of hair of one of them though. Why would you put your head into fire to keep warm?They dried their clothing on the hot stove most nights which could get too hot. The lack of frostbite in the group is one of several pieces of evidence that suggest it wasn't that cold.

I know there is a picture of a pretty badly burned jacket on one of the hikers. Was that coat found ON anyone? Was it in the tent? Does anyone know? I'd like to separate that burnt coat  from the ones on the 2 men as seperate burning incidents, as I think that would help with the confusion.

I noted on the autopsies that Doroshenko had frostbite on his fingers. Is the damage to Krivonischenko's right fingers considered to be frostbite too??

It is interesting to note that only Doroshenko and Zinaida Kolmogorova had chronicled frostbite damage to their fingers. Do you think that they all did but it just wasn't noted by the coroner? Do you think this is a significant detail??

Okay, I think I'm going to leave it at that for now as I have so many more questions I'm not only going to confuse you all but myself too, jumping from topic top topic.


Thank you

[Clacon]

Thanks for the reply! So exciting!

Do you think the evidence points to the fact that the 2 men were likely alone when they died? It just seems to me there would have been more of an effort to save them if others had been there? Or more evidence of it? Unless it all happened so fast....one falls from the tree, landing on the other; both roll into the fire and they both just die??

Unless - perhaps the foam on the cheek was expelled trying to resuscitate him? That could have been Yuri K. How long do you think this took? For them to die first?

These 2 just seem so removed from the rest of the group somehow.

[Nigel Evans]

Thanks for the reply! So exciting!

Do you think the evidence points to the fact that the 2 men were likely alone when they died? It just seems to me there would have been more of an effort to save them if others had been there? Or more evidence of it? Unless it all happened so fast....one falls from the tree, landing on the other; both roll into the fire and they both just die??

Unless - perhaps the foam on the cheek was expelled trying to resuscitate him? That could have been Yuri K. How long do you think this took? For them to die first?

These 2 just seem so removed from the rest of the group somehow.

If they were burnt by the fire then it's reasonable to suppose that Yuri K was concussed by a fall and unattended (Yuri D dead or close to death and too weak to drag him).

But...

There is the other theory that fire orbs were coming down from the peak and flying over the treetops and it's possible/plausible that after the deaths of the 2 Yuris the group retreat deeper into the forest and under the snow in the ravine. Note the word "retreat". Both the 2 Yuris injuries can be explained as electrical...

[Clacon]

So the fire orbs were electrical? Like a lightening ball?


How come the others weren't burned by the orbs?

[Nigel Evans]

So the fire orbs were electrical? Like a lightening ball?
The theory is that Ivanov's fire orbs were ball lightning.

How come the others weren't burned by the orbs?The ravine four were under 2-3 metres of snow. But Lyudmila's injuries echo of cattle mutilations.