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Author Topic: The last meal and the timeline, etc.  (Read 15990 times)

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September 21, 2019, 12:53:16 PM
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Hwy61Meg


Hi. New to this mystery. I've been researching it intensely for the last few days online, comparing stories and information. One thing that stood out to me was that the coroner said the food in most of their stomachs suggested they'd eaten 6 to 8 hours before death. I don't know how this could be true for all of them, but if it was true for the first to die, when did they eat supper? Assuming they ate after they all piled into the tent at the campsite, and then went to sleep, I imagine it would have been very shortly after dark. What time does it get dark up there at that time of year? And when was sunrise the next morning? I'm asking because there's this assumption that all of these events took place "in the middle of the night." Depending on the answers to my questions, it may have been a lot closer to sunrise. They would all have still been undressed, except for the two who appeared more fully clothed... those two may have awakened early and gotten dressed to go outside to relieve themselves. If this is the case, it wouldn't have been pitch dark for very long at all after the initial panic that caused them to cut their way out of the tent. They may have run amok in the dark, but quickly realized they were temporarily safe enough to regroup... and by then, it would have been bright enough outside to see each other and their surroundings. That would have made it easy to find their way down the slope to the treeline, for whatever reason they chose to go there.

Unless they were forced under duress, or had reason to believe their campsite was dangerous to them, I can't understand why they wouldn't have returned immediately to the tent to get supplies, rather than going to the woods. And if they weren't under duress, it seems like after a little while of waiting, they would have realized it was dead quiet at the campsite, and would have made their way back up there... unless it wasn't dead quiet. The only reason I can think of that they wouldn't return to the tent while they were still relatively very close to it would be if they felt their lives were still in danger. Of course, that's part of the Big Mystery. These weren't a bunch of hysterical young people. They were serious-minded, experienced hikers, who no doubt knew at least a little about the Big World and the vagaries of their government and military. So whatever it was that kept them away, it must've been extremely compelling for them to make the decision to leave their survival gear behind and go to the woods.

By all accounts, it would have had to have been daylight by the time they made it to the treeline. Right? I mean, if they ate, digested their food for 6 to 8 hours, left the tent, regrouped, and then hiked to the treeline? But each account I've read or listened to or watched seems to go by the assumption that all of these events happened in the dark of night, within a couple of hours of the initial incident. And what about the den made by the four who were found in the ravine? That had to have taken a couple of hours to construct, and would have required a reasonable amount of dexterity and physical activity. If the others were succumbing to the cold, and had their clothes taken by the survivors, who then built the shelter, how much time would that have taken? How fast did the first few die of hypothermia? And how did the final few survive long enough to build a shelter, and retrieve the extra clothes from the dead? There's no way they sustained their injuries before they built that shelter.

The final four are a puzzle to me. Did they die where they were finally found, or did they get moved about by meltwater or dragged by animals into the stream where they were eventually uncovered? Were their severe injuries caused by their shelter collapsing? I can't find any source that suggests that as a theory, and I'm not sure exactly what kind of shelter they built... if it was a snow cave, all that was left was the platform floor and their belongings, all of which were buried by snow that had been falling up there all spring.

Sorry about the rambling post. I thought I had a fairly clear idea but as I was thinking about it, I kept thinking of other things... this case does that to you.
 

September 22, 2019, 05:25:28 AM
Reply #1
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cennetkusu


The most likely situation is for young people to have lunch around 2:00 pm. Deaths took place at around 9:00 pm after an average of 7 hours. If the attack took place at 6 o'clock, they have 2-3 hours until death. In the most crucial question, why didn't young people go far to escape the danger? There are two choices. 1. Young people were not fully aware of the danger. 2. Young people knew that escape from danger was not possible.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2019, 04:39:20 AM by Teddy »
You're alone and desperate. Connect with God, you won't be alone and you're a saint.
 

September 22, 2019, 05:35:35 AM
Reply #2
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cennetkusu


Four young people in the snow cave were seriously injured. There were no fatal injuries in the open area. Why did those in the snow cave get fatally wounded? There may be two or three reasons. One reason for me is that the young people tried to hide from the danger by digging a cave in the snow. So the danger got angry and attacked them. The snow cave served as armor for both concealment and attack. So the unknown coercive force was angry with them and injured them very badly.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2019, 04:38:46 AM by Teddy »
You're alone and desperate. Connect with God, you won't be alone and you're a saint.
 

September 22, 2019, 03:13:19 PM
Reply #3
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Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Hi. New to this mystery. I've been researching it intensely for the last few days online, comparing stories and information. One thing that stood out to me was that the coroner said the food in most of their stomachs suggested they'd eaten 6 to 8 hours before death. I don't know how this could be true for all of them, but if it was true for the first to die, when did they eat supper? Assuming they ate after they all piled into the tent at the campsite, and then went to sleep, I imagine it would have been very shortly after dark. What time does it get dark up there at that time of year? And when was sunrise the next morning? I'm asking because there's this assumption that all of these events took place "in the middle of the night." Depending on the answers to my questions, it may have been a lot closer to sunrise. They would all have still been undressed, except for the two who appeared more fully clothed... those two may have awakened early and gotten dressed to go outside to relieve themselves. If this is the case, it wouldn't have been pitch dark for very long at all after the initial panic that caused them to cut their way out of the tent. They may have run amok in the dark, but quickly realized they were temporarily safe enough to regroup... and by then, it would have been bright enough outside to see each other and their surroundings. That would have made it easy to find their way down the slope to the treeline, for whatever reason they chose to go there.

Unless they were forced under duress, or had reason to believe their campsite was dangerous to them, I can't understand why they wouldn't have returned immediately to the tent to get supplies, rather than going to the woods. And if they weren't under duress, it seems like after a little while of waiting, they would have realized it was dead quiet at the campsite, and would have made their way back up there... unless it wasn't dead quiet. The only reason I can think of that they wouldn't return to the tent while they were still relatively very close to it would be if they felt their lives were still in danger. Of course, that's part of the Big Mystery. These weren't a bunch of hysterical young people. They were serious-minded, experienced hikers, who no doubt knew at least a little about the Big World and the vagaries of their government and military. So whatever it was that kept them away, it must've been extremely compelling for them to make the decision to leave their survival gear behind and go to the woods.

By all accounts, it would have had to have been daylight by the time they made it to the treeline. Right? I mean, if they ate, digested their food for 6 to 8 hours, left the tent, regrouped, and then hiked to the treeline? But each account I've read or listened to or watched seems to go by the assumption that all of these events happened in the dark of night, within a couple of hours of the initial incident. And what about the den made by the four who were found in the ravine? That had to have taken a couple of hours to construct, and would have required a reasonable amount of dexterity and physical activity. If the others were succumbing to the cold, and had their clothes taken by the survivors, who then built the shelter, how much time would that have taken? How fast did the first few die of hypothermia? And how did the final few survive long enough to build a shelter, and retrieve the extra clothes from the dead? There's no way they sustained their injuries before they built that shelter.

The final four are a puzzle to me. Did they die where they were finally found, or did they get moved about by meltwater or dragged by animals into the stream where they were eventually uncovered? Were their severe injuries caused by their shelter collapsing? I can't find any source that suggests that as a theory, and I'm not sure exactly what kind of shelter they built... if it was a snow cave, all that was left was the platform floor and their belongings, all of which were buried by snow that had been falling up there all spring.

Sorry about the rambling post. I thought I had a fairly clear idea but as I was thinking about it, I kept thinking of other things... this case does that to you.

You have asked some really good questions.  If you ever find out the answers to them all please let me know.

In terms of the time they left the tent.  I think the flashlight that they took with them and dropped about 450m down the slope would indicate that it was dark when they left the tent.  Also there are no diary entries for the 1st Feb so you would think that at least one of them would have written in their diary that night if the events had not taken place until the early hours of the morning.  But who knows.

In terms of the den - the exact construction of the den is unknown.  It may not have been dug into the snow and could have just been some cut branches on the ground.

Regards

Star man
 

September 23, 2019, 02:28:16 PM
Reply #4
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jarrfan


I have read your post and my understanding tells me the 4 ravine were bludgeoned at the place they were found. There is no way they could have sustained these injuries and traveled down to the ravine or tree, and then built a den.

My take is they were escorted to the cedar tree and separated while the 2 Yuri's were interrogated and tortured. The other 4 made their way down to the ravine knowing that unless they secured a den and were not able to return to their tent, they would surely die.

The military group then gathered together to compare stories they got about who was doing what and this took some time.

The cedar group built the fire, climbed the tree to see where the intruders were and where the rest of their group were, and were quite beaten and tortured. The 2 Yuri's died. The intruders may have been interrogating Dyatlov and Rina, Slobodin during this time and decided they all needed to die in order to keep the secret, whatever that was.

Then someone from the ravine snuck up to the tree and removed the clothing from the 2 Yuri's. Snuck back and put on what they could and were attacked at that time by the intruders and brutally beaten but still alive and the intruders knew they would be dead soon.

The camera around the neck of Kosolov was not identified, it may have been hidden somewhat by clothing and later exposed.


 

September 26, 2019, 06:05:56 AM
Reply #5
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Nezza





The den itself was a collection of branches with clothing arranged as if to create four seats.It wasn't a collapsible structure with the potential to create injury.Im sure they intended to build something with a lot more cover before they perished. I think the den is quite strange in itself....in the conditions they faced,why on earth take the time to twine some branches together with 4 tears of clothing onto of it.With all the deep snow would it not be fastest  dig a quick hole and huddle into it?
 

September 26, 2019, 10:59:54 PM
Reply #6
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jarrfan


Why the den was built, by whom and why did the 4 end up in the ravine and not in the den is a question for certain.
 

September 28, 2019, 03:55:29 PM
Reply #7
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Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient



The den itself was a collection of branches with clothing arranged as if to create four seats.It wasn't a collapsible structure with the potential to create injury.Im sure they intended to build something with a lot more cover before they perished. I think the den is quite strange in itself....in the conditions they faced,why on earth take the time to twine some branches together with 4 tears of clothing onto of it.With all the deep snow would it not be fastest  dig a quick hole and huddle into it?

If the den was actually constructed as shown in the photo then the one clear thing it does seem to tell us is that it was only meant for four people.  With that in mind it would mean that the two Yuris were either already dead, or simply were not with them when the den was constructed.  I suspect it is more likely that they had already died.  It also would indicate that Dyatlov, Zina and Rustem had already died or were not with them either.

Regards

Star man
 

September 29, 2019, 01:45:45 AM
Reply #8
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cennetkusu


The most plausible explanation would be the following. Teenagers fled the tent in case they had a direct attack from tent to tent. It's very clear and clear. After that, three of them wanted to come back half way. The other six continued to walk into the forest. Four of them dug a lair. Two Yuuri-san found a big tree and looked at the other three who returned to the tent. When they couldn't see them, they wanted to set fire to warm them up. There's only 75 meters between the tree and the snow. This indicates that the two Yuri were most likely connected to the other four. Because 75 meters is a very small distance. Go out and tell a friend to stand 75 meters away. You can easily talk to each other. And you will see that this distance is very close. So he may have helped build the two Yuri.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2019, 02:06:52 AM by Teddy »
You're alone and desperate. Connect with God, you won't be alone and you're a saint.
 

September 30, 2019, 12:14:11 AM
Reply #9
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Monika


Hello,
The whole course of events after leaving the tent is really unclear. I agree that the den was built only for four people and Yuri´s have been already dead. The question is why the group was divided into two parts: Group no.1 - lead by Dyatlov, Group no.2 lead by Zolotarev.
There was a disagreement over how to deal with the situation? and Group no.1 decided to go back to the tent and Group no.2 decided to build the den for only four of them? That would be a selfish decision on both sides. I don't know.... I don't think it seems like that, in such a difficult situation, I'd rather expect them to all be together. It would be more logical to split up so that Group no.1 goes to bring clothes from the tent to everyone and Group no.2 to build the den. But in that case it would be a den with more places for them and not only 4 seat.

For: cennetkusu
As you state “There's only 75 meters between the tree and the snow. This indicates that the two Yuri were most likely connected to the other four.” - It is an interesting idea and it sounds logical. But in that case they would build the den with six seats. This could only happen if Group no1 returned to the tent and Group no.2 stayed with Yuri's at the fire and only after their death they decided to start build the den. But then why did Yuri's freeze if there were four other people with them at the fire? They could hug them, rub their hands, etc ...  And such a scenario could happened, but not in the presence of Zolotarev. This man would never let Group no1 go to the tent to gather their stuff and in the meantime only sat by the fire. No, Zolotarev was a man of action, he would be the first offered himself to go back to the tent and not just sit by the fire and warm up.

One more comment: How do we know that the last meal was dinner? Couldn't it be early breakfast in the dark early morning (flashlight at the tent and in the snow on the slope)? They could have decided on that day to leave early in the morning, because they had left later the day before and therefore did not get far.
 

September 30, 2019, 08:16:00 AM
Reply #10
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jarrfan


Good questions. The time of death was decided by the autopsy reports, if I am not mistaken.

My question is if they built this den, why did the 4 end up in the  ravine instead of at the den? That makes no sense to build a den and then not use it...
 

September 30, 2019, 08:42:06 AM
Reply #11
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Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Hello,
The whole course of events after leaving the tent is really unclear. I agree that the den was built only for four people and Yuri´s have been already dead. The question is why the group was divided into two parts: Group no.1 - lead by Dyatlov, Group no.2 lead by Zolotarev.
There was a disagreement over how to deal with the situation? and Group no.1 decided to go back to the tent and Group no.2 decided to build the den for only four of them? That would be a selfish decision on both sides. I don't know.... I don't think it seems like that, in such a difficult situation, I'd rather expect them to all be together. It would be more logical to split up so that Group no.1 goes to bring clothes from the tent to everyone and Group no.2 to build the den. But in that case it would be a den with more places for them and not only 4 seat.

For: cennetkusu
As you state “There's only 75 meters between the tree and the snow. This indicates that the two Yuri were most likely connected to the other four.” - It is an interesting idea and it sounds logical. But in that case they would build the den with six seats. This could only happen if Group no1 returned to the tent and Group no.2 stayed with Yuri's at the fire and only after their death they decided to start build the den. But then why did Yuri's freeze if there were four other people with them at the fire? They could hug them, rub their hands, etc ...  And such a scenario could happened, but not in the presence of Zolotarev. This man would never let Group no1 go to the tent to gather their stuff and in the meantime only sat by the fire. No, Zolotarev was a man of action, he would be the first offered himself to go back to the tent and not just sit by the fire and warm up.

One more comment: How do we know that the last meal was dinner? Couldn't it be early breakfast in the dark early morning (flashlight at the tent and in the snow on the slope)? They could have decided on that day to leave early in the morning, because they had left later the day before and therefore did not get far.

I think you have some good observations and questions.  I think that the Yuris were up the tree with the others trying to avoid whatever danger had driven them all from the tent.  The Yuris could have lost too much body heat by the time the fire was lit which might also explain the burns to their bodies if they put their numb limbs too close to the fire in a desperate attempt to warm them.  It would be difficult to keep them warm if everyone was clinging onto the tree.

We don’t know for sure if Dyatlov, Zina and Rustem were with the others or for sure if the den had only four seats.  Depends if the clothes were positioned by the search party in their attempt to reconstruct it.

Regards

Star man
 

September 30, 2019, 08:45:33 AM
Reply #12
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Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Good questions. The time of death was decided by the autopsy reports, if I am not mistaken.

My question is if they built this den, why did the 4 end up in the  ravine instead of at the den? That makes no sense to build a den and then not use it...

The bodies were not that far from the den.  Only several metres if I remember right.

Regards

Star man
 

September 30, 2019, 10:20:24 AM
Reply #13
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NkZ


The more it goes the more I am bugged with this « last meal «  time issue. For instance : if you know a bit about photography why take a camera at 4 am if in danger ? If it’s 7 or 8 am it makes almost more sense
 

September 30, 2019, 11:12:56 AM
Reply #14
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jarrfan


Good thought, but he may have had the camera around his neck as he was one of two outside the tent relieving themselves and took pictures of the lights in the sky.
 

September 30, 2019, 11:14:50 AM
Reply #15
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jarrfan


Several meters, but still why in the ravine at all? What were they doing there instead of waiting in the den? Trying to get more brush, etc.?
 

September 30, 2019, 02:08:38 PM
Reply #16
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Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Well it looks like Kolevatov moved them and placed them near the so called den.  My personal thoughts are they were in the ravine hiding and probably sheltering from the wind.  I suspect also that they were in the process of relocating from the cedar as they had not had time to build a new fire in the ravine.  Then something happened.  They were attacked.  It's possible that Kolevatov was at the cedar when the attack happened as he did not have the same significant injuries.  Also someone dropped some clothing between the cedar and the ravine.  I suspect Kolevatov heard screams and dropped the clothing and made his way back to the ravine but his friends had already been attacked and incapacitated.  Kolevatov probably had the knife used to remove the clothing.  He may have used it to defend himself and his fiends and stabbed whatever it was that had attacked, driving it away and taking the knife with it.  Sounds crazy I know.

Regards

Star man
 

September 30, 2019, 03:14:10 PM
Reply #17
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cennetkusu


One of the most important questions is that people stay together unless they are forced to do so in the event of an important danger. But young people are divided into three groups. This is quite interesting. Because if there is a force that suddenly takes you out of the tent naked, you try to be together. You are inseparable. You stay together. I think young people dug into a snow cave like the woods. They stayed here for maybe a few hours. And his fears have subsided. Three of them decided to go back to the tent. After a while, the two Yuuri-san wondered what had happened to these three and found a large tree and climbed. That's when the uncertain POWER attacked. Otherwise, under normal circumstances, people try to stay together.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2019, 02:15:29 PM by Teddy »
You're alone and desperate. Connect with God, you won't be alone and you're a saint.
 

September 30, 2019, 04:19:35 PM
Reply #18
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jarrfan


Regarding Dyatlov incident, nothing is crazy...
 

September 30, 2019, 11:42:14 PM
Reply #19
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Monika


Several meters, but still why in the ravine at all? What were they doing there instead of waiting in the den? Trying to get more brush, etc.?

I meant that there was a chance that they woke up early in the morning and had breakfast, and then they started to dress when something made them run away from the tent. That would explain the fact
1. two of them were already fully dressed and some were only partially dressed,
2. The stove was empty (it was used at night and already emptied in the morning).

The time on the watch (5 and 8 hours) did not have to stop at the time of their death, but many hours after death, even in the evening on 2.2.1959.

Zolotarev could have a camera around his neck because he was already dressed and after a breakfast and ready for a trek (ex-soldiers are quick to prepare and dress.). The others were just getting ready and they were slower.

As you said "If they built this day, why did the 4 end up in the ravine instead of the den?" - it is clear the den was ready and they were outside of it when something hurt/attack them.

Those scattered pieces of clothing between fire and the den could be made intentionally as the trace/navigation for others:
- they could find a way from the fire to the den, or for Dyatlov Group no.1 to find the den.
- or that those who wore no shoes and were only in socks did not have to walk directly on the cold snow when to move between fire and den.

If the den was built with only four seats, which is evident from the pictures, why would the Kolevatov pull them there from some distance knowing they wouldn't fit the den (they couldn't be in a sitting position with their injuries); they could only be in a lying position. I doubt that he would have the strength to try to extend the den spatially by his own hands so that they could lie inside. Rather, it looks like trio was wounded right next to the den and the Kolevatov just laid them side by side.
 

September 30, 2019, 11:44:39 PM
Reply #20
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Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
One of the most important questions is that people stay together unless they are forced to do so in the event of an important danger. But young people are divided into three groups. This is quite interesting. Because if there is a force that suddenly takes you out of the tent naked, you try to be together. You are inseparable. You stay together. I think young people dug into a snow cave like the woods. They stayed here for maybe a few hours. And his fears have subsided. Three of them decided to go back to the tent. After a while, the two Yuuri-san wondered what had happened to these three and found a large tree and climbed. That's when the uncertain POWER attacked. Otherwise, under normal circumstances, people try to stay together.

It is a reasonable assumption that they would try to stay together unless there was a significant threat and that threat was in pursuit.

Regards

Star man
« Last Edit: October 02, 2019, 02:18:06 PM by Teddy »