Ground tremor

[RMK]

I can be in one rabbit hole at a time. If someone sees photos that I do not have on the site, please let me know like Ziljoe did.
This site is a collective work. Thank you all for your support.

.

http://sledopyt1959.mybb.ru/viewtopic.php?id=761#p29772

The photos should be on this page Teddy.

Wow, you're right, Ziljoe.  That page has 6(?) morgue photos of Krivonischenko that I've never seen before!

[ElizabethHarris]

So sorry, but does 'woodpeckers' mean?

[Ziljoe]

I can be in one rabbit hole at a time. If someone sees photos that I do not have on the site, please let me know like Ziljoe did.
This site is a collective work. Thank you all for your support.

.

http://sledopyt1959.mybb.ru/viewtopic.php?id=761#p29772

The photos should be on this page Teddy.

Wow, you're right, Ziljoe.  That page has 6(?) morgue photos of Krivonischenko that I've never seen before!

I think 5 are the same but just cropped.

[RMK]

So sorry, but does 'woodpeckers' mean?

The Russian word "дятлов" ("dyatlov" when Romanized) translates literally to English as "woodpeckers".  You will see it a lot in text about the Dyatlov Pass Incident that has been machine translated from Russian to English.

[ElizabethHarris]

RMK, oh my, thank you so much for clarifying that. I've been lost on the 'woodpecker' evidence for some time now...

[RMK]

Wow, you're right, Ziljoe.  That page has 6(?) morgue photos of Krivonischenko that I've never seen before!

I think 5 are the same but just cropped.

I am reminded of this year-old thread in which the admittedly odd topic of Krivonischenko and postmortem priapism came up.  At the time, I had never seen a morgue photo of Krivonischenko in which his genitals were exposed.  Well...today I learned that such photos exist, and they're just as unpleasant to look at as the rest of the postmortem photos.

Edit: and I still see no evidence of postmortem priapism.

[GlennM]

Did the group suffered calamity due to a fallen branch, and was there was a subsequent effort to misdirect investigators?  I think not. Why? The first reason is that no suitable  fallen branch in the immediate vicinity or surrounds was found with or without traces of canvas. If the branch was previously found and removed, earth and snow would be worked with boot prints, skids,,wood chips and a trail. Secondly, the forensic site and vicinity of the tragedy had no evidence of tampering.Third, if the scene was staged and  bodies were planted, there would exist the traces of it in the snow. Further, I doubt someone would have the imagjnation to think up a story line right on location, reenactment it and pose the deceased, especially in the ravine.

Occam's razor. The simplest answer is the best. It all boils down to whether the hikers turned right or went straight after making the cache. They went straight to not lose ground. They camped in the open, When frightened, they underestimated the distance to the trees. The fear was caused by a transient phenomena. I think a tremor caused by geological or meteorological sources is the answer. I thinkt in Russian eyes, the interest in this by other nationalities is a thinly veiled slap at Russian ability to take care of their own.I too an not Russian and am guilty .

[Manti]

Secondly, the forensic site and vicinity of the tragedy had no evidence of tampering.

It was not a forensic site.. it was a search by students who hoped to find their friends, alive. There was no suspicion of any crime and it wasn't treated as a crime scene initially.


But, I also think the simplest answer is the best.

Searchers describe barefoot prints. To my knowledge none of the hikers were found barefoot. What is the simplest explanation for this?

All hikers found under some snow, but some of their clothes found on top of the snow? What is a simple explanation for this?

[GlennM]

Hello Manti,
Your comment is a good one. You comment on the rescue team, footprints and clothes. I find it significant that as the amateurs scoured the area, there was no suggestion that anyone else was in the area prior to the search. I have always had trouble with the footprints in the snow. I recall that snow leopard prints have been taken as Yeti and bear prints taken as Bigfoot. Snow is not the best keeper of trace evidence,I think. Clothing on the snow when all the hikers were buried is an interesting observation, but lightweight objects would float and drift in wind, heavy things sink. Since the tent was cut and wind was strong, perhaps blown clothing was just a random thing? What do you think?

[Teddy]

there was no suggestion that anyone else was in the area prior to the search.

This was a Mansi rest stop. Grigoriev dug up hide from around the cedar.
https://dyatlovpass.com/grigoriev-3#33

I this there have been more people prior to the search too.

[ElizabethHarris]

Thank you so much for bringing up the tassled piece of fabric found at the cedar that was said to look similar to the ties Mansi used for logging purposes. Too often do people say there was NO evidence of anyone else there on the mountain.

[Ziljoe]

Thank you so much for bringing up the tassled piece of fabric found at the cedar that was said to look similar to the ties Mansi used for logging purposes. Too often do people say there was NO evidence of anyone else there on the mountain.

Have you read anything about the case?

[Teddy]

Thank you so much for bringing up the tassled piece of fabric found at the cedar that was said to look similar to the ties Mansi used for logging purposes.

This is in Slobtsov's testimony: https://dyatlovpass.com/case-files-298-300#299back
"I was present when we found under same cedar a cloth belt of dark color with straps [tassels] at the ends. I don't know who this item belongs to. The length of this item is about 80 cm, the width is about 10 cm, looks like a belt or strap, with which the Mansi pull loads, except the object would be not strong enough for this purpose."

Journalist Grigoriev found a whole hide (animal skin) in the ground near the cedar: https://dyatlovpass.com/grigoriev-3#33
"When I found something soft near that cedar and began to dig one and a half meter of snow, at first one student decided to help me, but when I got closer to the ground, he ran away. It was hide covered with thick moss."

Too often do people say there was NO evidence of anyone else there on the mountain.

I know.

[Teddy]

Thank you so much for bringing up the tassled piece of fabric found at the cedar that was said to look similar to the ties Mansi used for logging purposes.

This is in Slobtsov's testimony: https://dyatlovpass.com/case-files-298-300#299back
"I was present when we found under same cedar a cloth belt of dark color with ribbons [tassels] at the ends. I don't know who this item belongs to. The length of this item is about 80 cm, the width is about 10 cm, looks like a belt or strap, with which the Mansi pull loads, except the object would be not strong enough for this purpose."

Journalist Grigoriev found a whole hide (animal skin) in the ground near the cedar: https://dyatlovpass.com/grigoriev-3#33
"When I found something soft near that cedar and began to dig one and a half meter of snow, at first one student decided to help me, but when I got closer to the ground, he ran away. It was hide covered with thick moss."

Too often do people say there was NO evidence of anyone else there on the mountain.

I know.

[ElizabethHarris]

Ziljoe, have I read anything about the case? I don't know why you're being combative with me. Please read Teddys' response below and then ask her the same question since she, has several times agreed with my interpretation of certain things. If you have a problem with my theory or my questions (which have always been presented with respect and the acknowledgement that I am open-minded to other ideas) please ignore them. My right to an opinion that these kids were murdered holds as much or as little weight as your wolverines.

[Perplexe]

Pour ma part aussi aucune raison que la tente se soit trouvée là et si tel était alors le cas, c'est soit parce qu'il avait un rendez vous, soit parce qu'ils étaient en situation d'extrême urgence. Seule la peur peut dicter des comportements inexpliquables.
Autre chose aussi, ils n'ont pas pris un chemin logique pour se rendre au col. Venant de personnes aussi "intelligentes" et entrainées tout cet illogisme complique sérieusement le mystère. Bref il y a décidément quelque chose qui ne colle pas dans tout cela. Des photos ont été confisquées, c'est sûr. Où sont elles? Elles pourraient nous en dire plus.

[Игорь Б.]

This is in Slobtsov's testimony: https://dyatlovpass.com/case-files-298-300#299back
"I was present when we found under same cedar a cloth belt of dark color with tassels at the ends. I don't know who this item belongs to. The length of this item is about 80 cm, the width is about 10 cm, looks like a belt or strap, with which the Mansi pull loads, except the object would be not strong enough for this purpose."

http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=96415

[Perplexe]

Teddy merci  beaucoup pour votre éclairage et pour nous expliquer que la tente ne se trouvait pas là. Elle a donc été déplacée pour brouiller les pistes et ne pas faire que l'on s'approche trop près de la vérité. Oui mais laquelle de vérité?

[Teddy]

http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=96415
В сети встречается неправильная расшифровка "матерчатый пояс с темляками на концах". На самом деле "с тесемками":

Полезная вещь в походе, особенно если предстоит спать на холодном полу. Пояс мог быть утерян вследствие обрыва или развязывания тесёмок.

Igor B. is saying that the word is not tassels but straps and that the item could be the useful thing hikers improvise when going into the winter mountain.
The problem is that Slobtsov who saw it and who is an experienced hiker didn't recognize it as such. No matter what he call it he said he doesn't know what it is. Slobtsov surely has seen what Igor B. is suggesting it was.

I have updated the documents with straps but kept the tassels because the whole world is searching for tassels now. Igor B. is right that everything has to be looked over. If a case is cold then we have missed something.

[Игорь Б.]

The problem is that Slobtsov who saw it and who is an experienced hiker didn't recognize it as such. No matter what he call it he said he doesn't know what it is.

Мне неизвестно, чтобы туристы в те годы носили такие пояса. Но Золотарёв отличался от других туристов. Он был фронтовик, которые всю войну спали в окопах на земле. Этот пояс мог принадлежать ему.
На всякий случай, этот пояс не может быть солдатской обмоткой. Длина обмотки более 2 метров.

[Teddy]

I do not know if hikers in those years wore such belts. But Zolotaryov was different from other tourists. He was a front-line soldier who slept in the trenches on the ground throughout the war. This belt could belong to him.

Agree

Just in case, this belt can't be a soldier's wrap. The length of the winding is more than 2 meters.

So you think that can not be what Yudin calls in this interview soldiers wrap [puttee] солдатская обмотка https://youtu.be/_vaPTqZnFlA?t=1559
25:59
там была одна вещь чужеродная солдатская обмотка я ее развернул его нового сказал чтобы это не их не вещь я не знаю как это как это вещь вот здесь может быть она откуда-то из другого места в это но он это протокол не записал я делал вывод что ему вот это было не надо записывать от откуда там жила солдатская обмотка а потом начальник поиска подполковника артяков он вторую обмотку нашел в этом в овраге и денежный последних а там же вот столько снега обмотка там естественно с знаки потерялась потому что вот в таком снегу вот и он нашел эту вторую обмотку и он и он даже специально достал радиограмму появление обмотки мне непонятно и он ее описал ой адреса в начале сказал что вот обмотка 1 то есть это там были чужие люди которые это все делали

According to Yudin, Ortyukov is mentioning in the telegram a second puttee and he says that it is 1m long. This is closer to 80 cm than 2 m.



Why weren't these cloth articles belt/strap with ribbons 80 cm and soldiers foot wraps 2 pcs mentioned in the inventory protocols of the items found on the scene?

BTW there are foot wraps (bindings) mentioned that belong to Lyuda. They are called "портянки" not "обмотки". Can you tell me the difference?
https://dyatlovpass.com/case-files-11-20?rbid=17743#sheet13

[Teddy]

Teddy merci  beaucoup pour votre éclairage et pour nous expliquer que la tente ne se trouvait pas là. Elle a donc été déplacée pour brouiller les pistes et ne pas faire que l'on s'approche trop près de la vérité. Oui mais laquelle de vérité?

"Truth is complex, but lies are obvious."  – Toncho Cheytanov (my literature teacher)

[Игорь Б.]

Самые короткие солдатские обмотки Красной армии были 160 см, но в основном длиннее.

Обмотки - это вместо голенища:
https://yandex.ru/images/search?text=%D0%A1%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%B4%D0%B0%D1%82%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%B5%20%D0%BE%D0%B1%D0%BC%D0%BE%D1%82%D0%BA%D0%B8&from

https://youtu.be/IdLnKi2auSw?t=56

Портянки - это вместо носков:
https://yandex.ru/images/search?text=%D0%A1%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%B4%D0%B0%D1%82%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%B5%20%D0%BF%D0%BE%D1%80%D1%82%D1%8F%D0%BD%D0%BA%D0%B8&from

https://youtu.be/HuyihtcFBuY?t=9
(наматывает неправильно)

Перепутать портянки и бинты невозможно. Портянки гораздо шире любых бинтов.

P.S. В 1959 году обмотки в Советской армии уже не носили.

[Perplexe]

Teddy effectivement cette phrase de votre professeur de littérature signifie que s'il n'y avait pas de mensonges la vérité serait simple donc et que l'on aurait depuis longtemps trouvé les raisons de cette tragédie. Mais alors:
1- Qui a intérêt à mentir et pourquoi?
2- Cette tragédie est pour moi d'origine non humaine, mais nous en avons déjà discuté. Mais alors quelle vérité a t-on intérêt à cacher et pourquoi? Aller je me jette à l'eau: à mon humble avis c'est parce que cette vérité va remettre en cause toutes nos croyances, et ce serait peut-être une porte entre-ouverte pour commencer à se poser des questions que les gouvernements préfèrent justement ignorer, alors que à partir d'un certain niveau hiérarchique eux sont au courant. Et ça cela peut-être dangereux pour un régime quel qui soit. Qu'en pensez vous Teddy? N'hésitez pas à me dire si vous le pensez que je suis totalement à côté de la plaque et à ce moment-là je laisserai tomber mes recherches car intuitivement je vous fais confiance. Merci par avance.

Teddy indeed this sentence of your literature professor means that if there were no lies the truth would therefore be simple and that we would have found the reasons for this tragedy a long time ago. But then:
1- Who has an interest in lying and why?
2- This tragedy is for me of non-human origin, but we have already discussed it. But then what truth is it in our interest to hide and why? Come on, I'm taking the plunge: in my humble opinion, it's because this truth will challenge all our beliefs, and it might be a half-open door to start asking questions that governments prefer precisely ignore, whereas from a certain hierarchical level they are aware. And that can be dangerous for any diet. What do you think Teddy? Do not hesitate to tell me if you think so that I am totally off the mark and at that time I will drop my research because intuitively I trust you. Thanks in advance.

[Manti]

As for the ground tremor, maybe this thread is also of interest: https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=791.0;topicseen

[GlennM]

Tks Manti.

[Teddy]

1- Who has an interest in lying and why?

I don't think if I keep saying that body dump so you don't loose your job and be sent in the gulag gets any clearer by repeating it over and over again, and it is in the book, so I have accepted to elaborate some more, maybe my voice will add to the argument. Not sure if we are not just gathered here to spend time talking about something and if we are really making any progress in solving the case if we can't convince each other or seem to agree on anything, but I promise to elaborate more on the subject in a talk show on the anniversary of the tragedy. I will announce it a week prior.

2- This tragedy is for me of non-human origin, but we have already discussed it. But then what truth is it in our interest to hide and why? Come on, I'm taking the plunge: in my humble opinion, it's because this truth will challenge all our beliefs, and it might be a half-open door to start asking questions that governments prefer precisely ignore, whereas from a certain hierarchical level they are aware. And that can be dangerous for any diet. What do you think Teddy? Do not hesitate to tell me if you think so that I am totally off the mark and at that time I will drop my research because intuitively I trust you. Thanks in advance.

I think that if the government was involved they would have done a much better job hiding their tracks. The scene was a mess. Body recovery was even a bigger mess. Who would allow films from the camera to be sent out in civilian's bathrooms to be developed, printed and distributed among friends and families before the investigator sees what's on them?
If by non-human origin you mean extraterrestrial.... We can both self medicate get on the subject.

[ElizabethHarris]

1- Who has an interest in lying and why?

I don't think if I keep saying that body dump so you don't loose your job and be sent in the gulag gets any clearer by repeating it over and over again, and it is in the book, so I have accepted to elaborate some more, maybe my voice will add to the argument. Not sure if we are not just gathered here to spend time talking about something and if we are really making any progress in solving the case if we can't convince each other or seem to agree on anything, but I promise to elaborate more on the subject in a talk show on the anniversary of the tragedy. I will announce it a week prior.

Great point, Teddy. It doesn't seem like much progress is being made because many ppl (myself included at times) have developed their own theory of what happened and tend to omit or explain away the evidence that doesn't support their theory. Scenarios seem to get wilder and wilder by the moment but I am truly faithful that if anyone can make any progress with this case, you can.

[GlennM]

For my part, I believe Russian authorities acted responsibly and with considerable effort to resolve the tragedy. I can not fathom that any conspiracy to kill 9 valuable Soviets, stage a scenario, and lie to authorities that would get past the scrutiny of Soviet prosecutors. Russians are intelligent people, they love their children and want the truth. I think the truth is that the hikers were scared by earth tremors and they feared a slab avalanche because they cut their tent into a ledge. They vacated, underestimated the distance to the forest and succumbed to the elements and a bad fall. It makes sense to be me whereas other theories are wanting. It is just deucedly hard to accept people trekking a mile with no boots. That is just crazy! Sigh!

[Teddy]

For my part, I believe Russian authorities acted responsibly and with considerable effort to resolve the tragedy. I can not fathom that any conspiracy to kill 9 valuable Soviets, stage a scenario, and lie to authorities that would get past the scrutiny of Soviet prosecutors. Russians are intelligent people, they love their children and want the truth.

I agree with this part. Ground tremor, as many other theories, explains the fist part of the mystery but not the second, a mile down the slope.