April 04, 2020, 11:02:07 AM
Dyatlov Pass Forum

Author Topic: KGB involvement: not so outlandish a theory  (Read 419 times)

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February 17, 2020, 05:20:05 PM
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Lillie


I’m reading a book about the Cambridge or Magnificent Five, one of whom was Donald Maclean and one of the most successful KGB agents in the British government. His recruiter’s policy was to pick people specifically from the University. His strategy was to pick “young radicals before they became influential in the careers he hoped they would enter.”

He said “given that the Communist movement in these universities is on a mass scale and that there is a constant turnover of students it follows that individual Communists  whom we pluck out of the party will pass unnoticed, both by the party itself and by the outside world. People forget about them. And if at some point they do remember that they were once Communists, this will be put down to a passing fancy of youth, especially as those concerned are scions of the bourgeoisie.”

This is very interesting because many people use the fact that they were students as sort of proof that they were young and naive and this KGB stuff must be nonsense, and while that still may be true, here is proof that they specifically target students. What do we know about the political beliefs of the group? I know Lyuda was a staunch communist, and from the book I’m reading now they seem to pick very smart, conscientious people that they think will be elected or can work in high echelons. That makes me think any of them could have been KGB recruits, perhaps especially those from wealthier backgrounds (Rostem?) Do we know the political beliefs of the group?

February 18, 2020, 02:32:10 AM
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bertie


... but how would being KGB recruits lead to their deaths inside Russia?
Maybe I have missed your point?
Cheers

February 18, 2020, 10:50:37 AM
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MDGross


Not sure the point you're trying to make. While the KGB recruited spies in Europe and the US, the CiA recruited no shortage of Soviet operatives. Maybe one member of the Dyatlov group was a CIA operative (Zolotaryov or some people believe a Zolotaryov impersonator?) and the group was executed by the KGB?

February 18, 2020, 09:01:36 PM
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jarrfan


In the autopsy of Zolotaryov's skull which was recently dug up, it was noted that he had a fake empty crown in the back of his jaw. To me, this says spy with a capsule under his tooth cap in case he got caught. Read his most recent info which was done to try and determine if he was Zolotaryov and was related to his niece. None of his family remembered the tattoos and there was a question if he was who he said he was. No one has seemed to think this was strange, but I do....
« Last Edit: February 18, 2020, 09:05:38 PM by jarrfan »

February 19, 2020, 06:06:47 AM
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Nigel Evans


In the autopsy of Zolotaryov's skull which was recently dug up, it was noted that he had a fake empty crown in the back of his jaw. To me, this says spy with a capsule under his tooth cap in case he got caught. Read his most recent info which was done to try and determine if he was Zolotaryov and was related to his niece. None of his family remembered the tattoos and there was a question if he was who he said he was. No one has seemed to think this was strange, but I do....
Hi some interesting facts there, could you point us at the sources?

February 21, 2020, 01:16:48 AM
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Monika


In the autopsy of Zolotaryov's skull which was recently dug up, it was noted that he had a fake empty crown in the back of his jaw. To me, this says spy with a capsule under his tooth cap in case he got caught. Read his most recent info which was done to try and determine if he was Zolotaryov and was related to his niece. None of his family remembered the tattoos and there was a question if he was who he said he was. No one has seemed to think this was strange, but I do....

Hello,
the explanation is simple. Zolotarev has been active in the military in the past. At that time, a fake crown could be planted inside. Now he has lived a normal life and tried to get the title of Grant Master in tourism allowing him to become a professional trainer. Therefore he went for expedition with the Dyatlov´s  group. Do not look for anything else.

Sadly, the person has many experiences during difficult and dangerous times, where everyday life was endangered and successfully survived. And then in times of "peace" he enjoys his ordinary life and suddenly  such a misfortune became to him. That's life too unhap1.

February 24, 2020, 12:28:21 PM
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
In the autopsy of Zolotaryov's skull which was recently dug up, it was noted that he had a fake empty crown in the back of his jaw. To me, this says spy with a capsule under his tooth cap in case he got caught. Read his most recent info which was done to try and determine if he was Zolotaryov and was related to his niece. None of his family remembered the tattoos and there was a question if he was who he said he was. No one has seemed to think this was strange, but I do....

Hello,
the explanation is simple. Zolotarev has been active in the military in the past. At that time, a fake crown could be planted inside. Now he has lived a normal life and tried to get the title of Grant Master in tourism allowing him to become a professional trainer. Therefore he went for expedition with the Dyatlov´s  group. Do not look for anything else.

Sadly, the person has many experiences during difficult and dangerous times, where everyday life was endangered and successfully survived. And then in times of "peace" he enjoys his ordinary life and suddenly  such a misfortune became to him. That's life too unhap1.
Well the explanation would be simple if there was any PROOF. There is no PROOF.
DB

March 07, 2020, 02:55:51 AM
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Per Inge Oestmoen


There are no grounds for believing that any member of the Dyatlov group had any connections to the KGB or to any foreign forces of any kind. By all accounts they were loyal, innocent Soviet citizens.

However, they were nine intelligent, knowledgeable and resourceful students. If they witnessed something in the Urals the Soviet state did not want anyone to know, they would have the knowledge to understand what they observed and to tell friends or spouses about it. State secrets might come out. If this was what actually happened, the nine would be a risk to the state. Then the Soviet state could not afford to take the risk it would have meant to let the nine students live.

March 08, 2020, 07:16:37 PM
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Gorojanin


There are no grounds for believing that any member of the Dyatlov group had any connections to the KGB or to any foreign forces of any kind. By all accounts they were loyal, innocent Soviet citizens.

However, they were nine intelligent, knowledgeable and resourceful students. If they witnessed something in the Urals the Soviet state did not want anyone to know, they would have the knowledge to understand what they observed and to tell friends or spouses about it. State secrets might come out. If this was what actually happened, the nine would be a risk to the state. Then the Soviet state could not afford to take the risk it would have meant to let the nine students live.

What state secrets are they talking about? From ignorance of the facts such judgments.

Why were they so terribly secret about Otorten not to let them in, but having let them go, killed the group of Dyatlov? In January 1959, there were groups of Blinov, Shumakov-Vladimirov, Fomenko before Dyatlov, in February, Sogrin and Karelin, before the search, the crowds walked with the beginning of the search. And no one noticed the objects and secrets that could not be admitted. Was there a real scary state secret - they would simply not approve the route to either Dyatlov or other sportsmen.



March 09, 2020, 04:49:24 PM
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
There are no grounds for believing that any member of the Dyatlov group had any connections to the KGB or to any foreign forces of any kind. By all accounts they were loyal, innocent Soviet citizens.

However, they were nine intelligent, knowledgeable and resourceful students. If they witnessed something in the Urals the Soviet state did not want anyone to know, they would have the knowledge to understand what they observed and to tell friends or spouses about it. State secrets might come out. If this was what actually happened, the nine would be a risk to the state. Then the Soviet state could not afford to take the risk it would have meant to let the nine students live.

What state secrets are they talking about? From ignorance of the facts such judgments.

Why were they so terribly secret about Otorten not to let them in, but having let them go, killed the group of Dyatlov? In January 1959, there were groups of Blinov, Shumakov-Vladimirov, Fomenko before Dyatlov, in February, Sogrin and Karelin, before the search, the crowds walked with the beginning of the search. And no one noticed the objects and secrets that could not be admitted. Was there a real scary state secret - they would simply not approve the route to either Dyatlov or other sportsmen.


Well said. Its a shame that many people still have a thing about the USSR as if it was some devilish invention.  The USSR was an experiment in Socialism. It failed for various reasons.  But Socialism is not a failure. I strongly believe that the KGB or Military were not involved in the Dyatlov Incident.
DB

March 10, 2020, 11:40:21 AM
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jarrfan


The mystery of Oleg Vavilov's death? Have you read it? I don't know what age you are but I can only assume you were not alive during the cold war and the iron curtain. Stalin's shadow after his death fell on all of Russia as the newest leader tried to keep control of the masses by any means possible. This was the "spy" era for America, Russia and Europe. It was not all James Bond crap but it was there very hidden. I don't know whether the KGB had this group killed as does no one else. It is all pure speculation. But I do know that socialism/communism in any form is not a way of life that can exist in a society that values human life and morality. China/So. Korea are pretty good examples of communism, the defeat of the human soul and the power of the government. If socialism works, why does every socialist country change to capitalism and less government control? Once socialism takes hold and any means of fighting the government ends, all the citizens can do is throw rocks at the government approved enforcement and their buildings. This post is not desirous of offending you or your beliefs in socialism, but I beg that you do more documented investigation into the cold war/iron curtain era.

March 12, 2020, 11:48:19 AM
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sarapuk

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Many people in the West still have a thing about the KGB.  Also about Socialism and Communism.  Most of the big Nations have their Secret Services, and sometimes they have ALL done unsavoury things. Its a fact that Capitalism evolved from something and will eventually evolve into something else.  Even the great Charles Darwin knew this and admired Karl Marxs great work Das Capital. Which everyone should read along with The origin Of Species.
DB

March 12, 2020, 01:03:47 PM
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Nigel Evans


Many people in the West still have a thing about the KGB.  Also about Socialism and Communism.  Most of the big Nations have their Secret Services, and sometimes they have ALL done unsavoury things. Its a fact that Capitalism evolved from something and will eventually evolve into something else.  Even the great Charles Darwin knew this and admired Karl Marxs great work Das Capital. Which everyone should read along with The origin Of Species.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_Russia#The_Russian_death_penalty
"However, in 1910, capital punishment was reintroduced and expanded, although still very seldom used" "Under the rule of Joseph Stalin, many were executed during the Great Purge in the 1930s. Many of the death sentences were pronounced by a specially appointed three-person commission of officials, the NKVD troika.[5] The exact number of executions is debated, with archival research suggesting it to be between 700,000 and 800,000, whereas an official report to Nikita Khrushchev from 1954 cites 642,980 death penalties"


March 16, 2020, 01:25:37 PM
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Many people in the West still have a thing about the KGB.  Also about Socialism and Communism.  Most of the big Nations have their Secret Services, and sometimes they have ALL done unsavoury things. Its a fact that Capitalism evolved from something and will eventually evolve into something else.  Even the great Charles Darwin knew this and admired Karl Marxs great work Das Capital. Which everyone should read along with The origin Of Species.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_Russia#The_Russian_death_penalty
"However, in 1910, capital punishment was reintroduced and expanded, although still very seldom used" "Under the rule of Joseph Stalin, many were executed during the Great Purge in the 1930s. Many of the death sentences were pronounced by a specially appointed three-person commission of officials, the NKVD troika.[5] The exact number of executions is debated, with archival research suggesting it to be between 700,000 and 800,000, whereas an official report to Nikita Khrushchev from 1954 cites 642,980 death penalties"



And other Secret Service Agencies have killed people.  Doesnt prove anything regarding The Dyatlov Pass Incident.
DB

March 16, 2020, 04:01:10 PM
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Nigel Evans


Many people in the West still have a thing about the KGB.  Also about Socialism and Communism.  Most of the big Nations have their Secret Services, and sometimes they have ALL done unsavoury things. Its a fact that Capitalism evolved from something and will eventually evolve into something else.  Even the great Charles Darwin knew this and admired Karl Marxs great work Das Capital. Which everyone should read along with The origin Of Species.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_Russia#The_Russian_death_penalty
"However, in 1910, capital punishment was reintroduced and expanded, although still very seldom used""Under the rule of Joseph Stalin, many were executed during the Great Purge in the 1930s. Many of the death sentences were pronounced by a specially appointed three-person commission of officials, the NKVD troika.[5] The exact number of executions is debated, with archival research suggesting it to be between 700,000 and 800,000, whereas an official report to Nikita Khrushchev from 1954 cites 642,980 death penalties"



And other Secret Service Agencies have killed people.  Doesnt prove anything regarding The Dyatlov Pass Incident.
Rolls eyes.