Den

[Osi]

This is how I imagine the placement in the bunker. All wrapped together. They helped Liyutmila put on extra clothes. They have a 3 or 4 meter snow ceiling on them. Beneath them should be a snow bed of at least 1 meter thick that cuts off their contact with the water. Semyon and Liyutmila are resting on the cliff below the valley bed. Tibo and Kolivatov; They are located on the flat surface of the valley. Like April, the waters are warming up, and the 1-meter bed of snow begins to melt, pulling Lyutmila from her group and dragging her into the 1-meter bed. Tons of snow on the ceiling sits in the valley and crushes the ribs. Lyutmila is dragged facedown down a 1 meter waterfall. Semyon loses his 90° position and leans 120° towards Liyutmila. Since the other two corpses are on flat ground and motionless, snow sitting upright on them will not hurt. So, did the injuries happen on a fateful night or did they occur like April. I don't know what the autopsy says.

[Ziljoe]

This is how I imagine the placement in the bunker. All wrapped together. They helped Liyutmila put on extra clothes. They have a 3 or 4 meter snow ceiling on them. Beneath them should be a snow bed of at least 1 meter thick that cuts off their contact with the water. Semyon and Liyutmila are resting on the cliff below the valley bed. Tibo and Kolivatov; They are located on the flat surface of the valley. Like April, the waters are warming up, and the 1-meter bed of snow begins to melt, pulling Lyutmila from her group and dragging her into the 1-meter bed. Tons of snow on the ceiling sits in the valley and crushes the ribs. Lyutmila is dragged facedown down a 1 meter waterfall. Semyon loses his 90° position and leans 120° towards Liyutmila. Since the other two corpses are on flat ground and motionless, snow sitting upright on them will not hurt. So, did the injuries happen on a fateful night or did they occur like April. I don't know what the autopsy says.

Hi osi

I think this a good example and something to consider. Why and how they ended up in the ravine is always a problem. I think it's plausible, that there was shifting and melting of snow. It is recorded that they dammed the stream before they removed the bodies. In my mind they flow of water was stronger than we see in the photos. Maybe a few tweaks but I like it.

[tenne]

I love that you were able to draw it out. I find that so much easier to picture.

does anyone have any idea how much snow may have fallen from feb to when they found the den? from the photos, the snow looks deep, they said they dug down 3.5 metres and the snow looked, in the photo, pretty hard packed. were any shovels or any digging tools found in the den? it would be very difficult to dig out a den in hard snow in winter with just hands

[Osi]

1. The faces of the corpses are facing up, their heads are on the same side, their legs are open and straight... It is proof that there is no chaos. corpses; If it had been thrown randomly from above, we would not have seen such an orderly image. 2. If the corpses had been lowered into the valley: there would have been a lot of destruction around and it would have been noticed during the searches on February 26. Why hide 4 bodies if the other bodies are in the open? Yes, I think the cave digging was a team effort. The 3 people who went to the tent and 4 people in the valley were excavated with the efforts of 7 people in total. 2 yuri were on the task of lighting a fire. Or, by sheer coincidence, they had the chance to find the cave previously prepared by a hunter.

[GlennM]

Probably a good reason not to bring fire from the cedar to the den with that overhang of snow.

[Osi]

Glen; then I will need to prepare a timeline. According to the two theories I hold / 1) The descent into the forest as a result of the snowslide that occurred around 02:00 at night and the activity that started at 02:45. 2) The group consciously and deliberately split into two at 17 o'clock while the tent was being set up; Tibo, Semyon and Lyutmila descend into the forest and are injured and fall, etc. Possible activity hours: 18.00 or 03.00 (2 Yuri) while plucking dry branches from the tree, excavation and branches are being prepared in the other 7 caves. A healthy communication cannot be established due to the 75m distance between them. The fire burns for half an hour, but it is very weak and does not get stronger due to the wind. It takes 2 hours to dig a shelter and collect fir branches under it. No one is in a position to control the state of the fire. They try to come to terms with each other by shouting in panic. They want to get into the hole as soon as possible. Unlike the 2 hours spent in the accommodation area; 2 yuri trying to collect wood in Cedar for half an hour, weak fire in Cedar, hypothermia, captivity and death within half hour. In this case, when the group returned to the cedar, 2 Yuri had frozen in the fire at least half an hour ago.

[Почемучка]

Российские исследователи расходятся во мнении - чем был тот настил. В смысле какую функцию выполнял. В Уголовном Деле использован очень интересный термин. Настил - от слова настилать.
И тут вариантов больше - чем только настилать пол. Лично я вижу такой большой снегоступ, мостки на глубокий снег, плот на снежную поверхность. И мне даже подсказали почему мне так думается. Семен Золотарев был понтонером во время войны. Эта конструкция очень напоминает понтон. Все поисковики без разнобоя вспоминают про глубокий и рыхлый снег над тем ручьем в марте 1959 года. Они там плавали как в реке и дна не доставали ногами. Их страховали на веревках, чтобы они не утонули в том снегу. Строить пещеру в таком снегу - это невозможно.

Russian researchers disagree on what that flooring was. In terms of what function it performed. A very interesting term is used in the Criminal Case. Flooring - from the word to lay.
And here there are more options - than just laying the floor. Personally, I see such a big snowshoe, walkways on deep snow, a raft on a snowy surface. And they even told me why I think so. Semyon Zolotarev was a pontooner during the war. This design is very similar to a pontoon. All search engines without discord recall the deep and loose snow over that stream in March 1959..
They swam there like in a river and did not reach the bottom with their feet. They were secured with ropes so that they would not drown in that snow. Building a cave in such snow is impossible.

[Osi]

[Почемучка]

Нет, там по мнению всех судебно-медицинских экспертов, что изучали это дело в достаточной мере: утрату языка связывали с животными-падальщиками. Сначала 4 спеца - в 2000 году, потом один - в 2013, и затем уже Туманов. Итого шесть одинаковых мнений.

No, according to all the forensic experts who studied this case sufficiently: the loss of the language was associated with carrion animals. First, 4 specialists - in 2000, then one - in 2013, and then Tumanov. A total of six identical opinions.

[Manti]

I don't know why they'd lick the ice when there's flowing water though

[Osi]

Ravioli This is a depiction and this is what I can do in a hurry. It doesn't lick the ice. The water fills the mouth of the dead Lyuda. probably where water meets ice. It freezes in the mouth and merges with the thick mass of ice at the edge. the body does not freeze in the water, it moves freely, but the face is stuck in the ice.

[tenne]

1. The faces of the corpses are facing up, their heads are on the same side, their legs are open and straight... It is proof that there is no chaos. corpses; If it had been thrown randomly from above, we would not have seen such an orderly image. 2. If the corpses had been lowered into the valley: there would have been a lot of destruction around and it would have been noticed during the searches on February 26. Why hide 4 bodies if the other bodies are in the open? Yes, I think the cave digging was a team effort. The 3 people who went to the tent and 4 people in the valley were excavated with the efforts of 7 people in total. 2 yuri were on the task of lighting a fire. Or, by sheer coincidence, they had the chance to find the cave previously prepared by a hunter.

If I reading your depiction properly, the snow was firm enough to support a roof of snow? if that was the case, it wasn't an easy job to dig it out so were there any tools to do it with found there? Bare hands, even if covered with a sock or something? would not work well and the effort would create a lot of sweat, which would freeze. Not a good way to stay safe with no fire in the sub zero temps

[Osi]

I see that they have a 50% chance of spotting a bunker previously used by Mansi hunters (I mentioned above). If they dug themselves; I think 2-3 people can handle this with the help of a log with a diameter of 5-8 cm. in the footbal field; You cannot drill wells in 5m of snow, but you can drill enough to fit loose land that has accumulated and piled up on the mound of a valley.

[Почемучка]

I see that they have a 50% chance of spotting a bunker previously used by Mansi hunters (I mentioned above). If they dug themselves; I think 2-3 people can handle this with the help of a log with a diameter of 5-8 cm. in the footbal field; You cannot drill wells in 5m of snow, but you can drill enough to fit loose land that has accumulated and piled up on the mound of a valley.

Манси не строят снежные пещеры если им нужно временное укрытие от непогоды. В своей национальной одежде - манси могут просто спать зарывшись в снег. Этот эпизод описан в отчете Карелина 1959 года. Если манси едут на охоту на оленях, то у них всегда материал для постройки временного чума. И еще по тайге они строят на своих охотничьих угодьях - специальные избушки.

Mansi do not build snow caves if they need temporary shelter from the weather. In their national clothes - Mansi can simply sleep buried in the snow. This episode is described in Karelin's 1959 report. If the Mansi go hunting on deer, then they always have material for building a temporary tent. And in the taiga they build special huts on their hunting grounds.

[Игорь Б.]

Все поисковики без разнобоя вспоминают про глубокий и рыхлый снег над тем ручьем в марте 1959 года. Они там плавали как в реке и дна не доставали ногами.

Не все, а Сахнин. И проваливался он в снег не в том месте где были тела:
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=75065

Строить пещеру в таком снегу - это невозможно.

А сам Сахнин считает, что возможно:

С пещерой и .. всё такое.. Пещера – это ТИПИЧНО для Кольки Тибо. Вот это – Колькины штучки!
Что хотите мне говорите, но, что Колька не принял участие в рытье пещеры и натаскивании туда лапника – такого быть не может!

https://taina.li/forum/index.php?topic=4620.msg284014#msg284014
 

[Osi]

I have to continue to avoid treating snowdrifts as concrete. Check out Tibo; without any effort, he even fell to the ground and made a huge hole for himself. The baton was buried in 30 cm of snow. The snow is fresh and soft.

[Почемучка]

Не все, а Сахнин. И проваливался он в снег не в том месте где были тела:

Потому что ему досталось промерять там глубину

Вот тот сугроб в котором нашли четверых - мы с АК вдвоём там кувыркались. Вот так мы проваливались с Абрамом Константиновичем! вот так! Нас страховали ребята за деревья рядом мы… по горло и мы не доходили до земли…
Да, мы смотрели этот сугроб и мы… не за что не зацепились там. Мы его ногами протопали, вот так, вертикально! И ни за что не зацепились. Это означает, что значительно глубже... В общем много там чего (снегу) было. Дойти до твёрдого наста вот так, вертикально мы не сумели. Мы погружались по самую шею.

-Снег был мягким???!!!

Снежный надув редко бывает не мягким. Вот если бы сошла лавина и встала в этом месте - вот тогда бы схватило намертво. А мы проваливались туда вот так вот (показывает - по шею) и он и я.
Мы были на одной и той же верёвочке и ребята нас ещё страховали сверху.

- Я просто впервые слышу что смотрели этот ручей и что?

Даже мысли не возникло! потому, что так мягко проваливались в этот ручей, ни за что не зацепляясь ни руками ни ногами.. даже мысли не было!

Снег не может быть по-волшебству - менять свои свойства через пару-другую метров. Сахнин определенно называет тот ручей, где нашли четверку. Все поисковики предположили строительство снежной пещеры. Это обычная туристская практика. Они не были в курсе - что на войне С.А.Золотарев получил большой опыт строительства понтонов.
А Золотарев-то  у нас - как раз в ручье.

[Игорь Б.]

Снег не может быть по-волшебству - менять свои свойства через пару-другую метров.

Может, если в одном месте произошло обрушение снега. Там будет твёрдый, обледеневший, лавинный снег. А совсем рядом, но где не было обрушения снег будет обычным.

[Почемучка]

Снег не может быть по-волшебству - менять свои свойства через пару-другую метров.

Может, если в одном месте произошло обрушение снега. Там будет твёрдый, обледеневший, лавинный снег. А совсем рядом, но где не было обрушения снег будет обычным.

Такая странная гоняющаяся лавина? Такая точечно прицельная? При условии, что Сахнин с Кикоиным проплыли весь ручей, где нашли позже четверку? Такая глубоко законспирированная лавина?

[Игорь Б.]

Такая странная гоняющаяся лавина? Такая точечно прицельная?

Да. Снег обрушился только в пустоту выкопанной снежной пещеры. Там где не было выкопанной пустоты снегу обрушиваться было некуда.
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=85098

При условии, что Сахнин с Кикоиным проплыли весь ручей, где нашли позже четверку?

Нет. Только в направлении на палатку:

Барахтались мы там… Ну и что.. Толку-то… А потом перерывали, почти безнадёжно перерывали вот эту вот слабо наклонённую площадку от кедра в сторону палатки. От кедра почти на палатку...

[tenne]

I have to continue to avoid treating snowdrifts as concrete. Check out Tibo; without any effort, he even fell to the ground and made a huge hole for himself. The baton was buried in 30 cm of snow. The snow is fresh and soft.

yes in that photo it was soft, there is no way a den like depicted in the drawing could be made in that snow, the snow would have to be hard enough to hold up the roof

[Игорь Б.]

Там где снег наносится ветром он будет плотным. Там где нет ветра снег будет рыхлым.

[Ziljoe]

I have to continue to avoid treating snowdrifts as concrete. Check out Tibo; without any effort, he even fell to the ground and made a huge hole for himself. The baton was buried in 30 cm of snow. The snow is fresh and soft.

yes in that photo it was soft, there is no way a den like depicted in the drawing could be made in that snow, the snow would have to be hard enough to hold up the roof

There may have been ridges, snow bridges , overhangs for example. These photos show that the snow was soft enough , it doesn't tell us much more ., I've built snow caves with hands . Not very big but in the side of a snow bank. I believe it's possible and the survival thing to do. If you're going to be stuck out in the elements , you make a shelter of some sort. 

[Почемучка]

There may have been ridges, snow bridges , overhangs for example. These photos show that the snow was soft enough , it doesn't tell us much more ., I've built snow caves with hands . Not very big but in the side of a snow bank. I believe it's possible and the survival thing to do. If you're going to be stuck out in the elements , you make a shelter of some sort. 

Без костра все же это будет - не особо достаточной помощью. Костер - это важнее и необходимее.
Without a fire, however, it will be - not very sufficient help. The fire is more important and necessary.

А так-то

[Ziljoe]

There may have been ridges, snow bridges , overhangs for example. These photos show that the snow was soft enough , it doesn't tell us much more ., I've built snow caves with hands . Not very big but in the side of a snow bank. I believe it's possible and the survival thing to do. If you're going to be stuck out in the elements , you make a shelter of some sort. 

Без костра все же это будет - не особо достаточной помощью. Костер - это важнее и необходимее.
Without a fire, however, it will be - not very sufficient help. The fire is more important and necessary.

А так-то

True, it may be why they broke the branches of the ceder. For fire and wood that would burn. It makes sense that without cutting tools , they would climb the tree and take the driest branches. This may not have been sufficient, they weather may have changed or they were seeking a snow hole and fire. However, given the rib fractures and location of the ravine 4 , I would speculate that the snow collapsed on top of them. Snowbank, hole, cave or snow bridge. The snow was obviously deep enough and they seemed to have taken fir branches to at least sit on at the den area. They may have split and made the two separate plans? The fire seems quite small for 9 people and I have read that there was firewood on the ground but I've also heard this may have been dense with water.

[GlennM]

The point here being that using snow to shelter from the wind is (1) instinctive and (2) a skill they all knew. Additionally, a person can be more certain of what is above then than what is below them. By this, I suggest that below them could be an unknown water course while above them would be a ledge of snow. If the overburden of snow collapsed, the additional weight could serve to get them wet from below.

[Игорь Б.]

Костер - это важнее и необходимее.

Костёр - это худший способ выживания зимой. Костёр не защищает от ветра, ему постоянно нужны дрова, нельзя спать. Двое у костра замёрзли насмерть, имея признаки длительного переохлаждения и сильные обморожения.

Снежное укрытие - лучший способ выживания зимой. В правильно построенном укрытии создаётся околонулевая температура, укрытие полностью защищает от ветра, в нём можно и нужно спать.
У погибших при обрушении снежного укрытия в ручье нет признаков переохлаждения и обморожений.

[Почемучка]

The point here being that using snow to shelter from the wind is (1) instinctive and (2) a skill they all knew. Additionally, a person can be more certain of what is above then than what is below them. By this, I suggest that below them could be an unknown water course while above them would be a ledge of snow. If the overburden of snow collapsed, the additional weight could serve to get them wet from below.

Самый инстинктивный навык - это шалаш. Шалаш и рядом костер. Снег рыть холоднее чем крушить елочки.
Подобие чума, вигвама и тому подобное - это древний генный навык тех, кто живет среди деревьев. Иглу строяли там, где такое счастье как дерево - отсутствует.
The most instinctive skill is a hut. A hut and a bonfire nearby. It is colder to dig snow than to destroy Christmas trees.
The likeness of the plague, the wigwam, and the like is an ancient gene skill of those who live among the trees. The igloo was built where there is no such happiness as a tree.

[Почемучка]

Костер - это важнее и необходимее.

Костёр - это худший способ выживания зимой. Костёр не защищает от ветра, ему постоянно нужны дрова, нельзя спать. Двое у костра замёрзли насмерть, имея признаки длительного переохлаждения и сильные обморожения.

Снежное укрытие - лучший способ выживания зимой. В правильно построенном укрытии создаётся околонулевая температура, укрытие полностью защищает от ветра, в нём можно и нужно спать.
У погибших при обрушении снежного укрытия в ручье нет признаков переохлаждения и обморожений.

Вот именно. Костер заставляет бодрствовать. Двигаться и продолжать думать что делать дальше. Не отключаться и не расслабляться.
Они костер должны были сторожить. Сон сморил их странным образом очень быстро. Еще день назад они всей группой дрыхли очень долго, и  выспались на три дня вперед. Вы в молодости видимо не гуляли все ночи до утра. А они такой опыт имели. Это шальная нормальная молодость. Что там случилось у костра - это вопрос.

That's it. The fire keeps you awake. Move on and keep thinking about what to do next. Don't let go and don't relax.
They were supposed to keep the fire going. Sleep overcame them in a strange way very quickly. A day ago, the whole group was sleeping for a very long time, and slept for three days ahead. In your youth, apparently, you didn’t walk all night until the morning. And they had that experience. This is crazy normal youth. What happened by the fire is the question.

[Зайцев]

Костер - это важнее и необходимее.

Согласен. Именно костром в лесной зоне спасаются и охотники и туристы. Есть правило - не греет палатка, разводи костёр и спи в тепле. Вариант нодья очень эффективен.
А вот ниже почитайте пост диванного аналитика, который делает глобальный вывод о кострах, исходя из расположения тел УД гибели группы Дятлова и своей версии на эту трагедию. Как говорится - логика всему голова!

А фраза "ему постоянно нужны дрова, нельзя спать" меня вообще убила. Вот такие товарищи и строгают фантазийные версии, вводя в заблуждение и людей и животных, включая росомах. А народ их слушает и верит.

Agree. It is the fire in the forest zone that saves both hunters and tourists. There is a rule - the tent does not heat, make a fire and sleep warm. The node option is very effective.
But below, read the post of a couch analyst who makes a global conclusion about the fires, based on the location of the bodies of the UD of the death of the Dyatlov group and his version of this tragedy. As they say - logic is the head of everything!

And the phrase "he constantly needs firewood, you can't sleep" killed me in general. These are the comrades who plan fantasy versions, misleading both people and animals, including wolverines. And people listen to them and believe.