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Author Topic: why test for radiation?  (Read 11174 times)

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January 08, 2023, 04:08:43 PM
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tenne


this was an excellent question brought up by Glenn, I think and it has made me wonder.

The helicopter commander refused to transport the bodies without zinc lined containers. He had a gun put to his head and still refused. He knew they were looking for bodies so why suddenly did he need zinc lined containers to carry them back and why did they test for radiation?

was it standard practice to test deceased frozen hikers for radiation? this wasn't the only time hikers passed away and I can't find any information for or against it.

thoughts?
 

January 08, 2023, 06:51:41 PM
Reply #1
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Ziljoe


this was an excellent question brought up by Glenn, I think and it has made me wonder.

The helicopter commander refused to transport the bodies without zinc lined containers. He had a gun put to his head and still refused. He knew they were looking for bodies so why suddenly did he need zinc lined containers to carry them back and why did they test for radiation?

was it standard practice to test deceased frozen hikers for radiation? this wasn't the only time hikers passed away and I can't find any information for or against it.

thoughts?

It's in the forum's...

From what I can remember, firstly zinc coffins or container's were standard practice . It was mostly zinc for all people.

I think the recorded confrontation was regarding the ravine 4 and not the first 5 that were found. To support this,Given the posture of the first 5 frozen bodies I would suspect that they didn't have container's/ coffins in the shape of the first 5.

The ravine 4 were decomposing , badly when they found. This is the most likely argument for the pilots refusing in my mind.

The helicopter commander has no recollection of such an incident taking place .?

You managed to find a case study against Zolotaryov as being sacked , so you know how to research tenne.

Try doing it before you post. You might find the answers?

 

January 08, 2023, 09:14:17 PM
Reply #2
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tenne


"To Prodanov
The data from the external examination was reported in the radiogram of Ivanov, the dimensions of the coffins are 180 cm, the remaining dimensions are of the actual height. I am outraged by the behavior of the crew, which, in response to my categorical demands, did not take the cargo specially prepared for transportation, about which I ask you to inform the commander of the Urals twice to the hero of the Soviet Union, Colonel General Lelyushenko. Ortyukov.
Received by Temniko"

"RADIOGRAM №10 FROM MAY 7, 1959

To Sverdlovsk, the regional committee of the CPSU, for the attention of Ermash. The regional executive committee for the attention of Pavlov.
The Ivdel city committee of the CPSU, for Prodanov. Captain Potyazhenko, the helicopter commander, has refused to evacuate the deceased, explaining his refusal with the order received from com. Gorlachenko, which [order] prohibited any evacuation without zinc boxes" (more of this radiogram but its long so I only posted the pertinent part)

I did search the site as you can see and there was an issue. But what I couldn't and can't find was: is it standard procedure to use zinc caskets and why test for radiation, not what was tested

if it was standard, as you suggest, then why were they not carrying zinc containers for the bodies? the crew felt so strongly about not carrying the bodies, that they knew they were there to get, that they were willing to defy orders. The other part of the question is: was it standard to test people for radiation when they were found frozen from a known cross country ski trip?
 

January 08, 2023, 09:47:26 PM
Reply #3
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Ziljoe


"To Prodanov
The data from the external examination was reported in the radiogram of Ivanov, the dimensions of the coffins are 180 cm, the remaining dimensions are of the actual height. I am outraged by the behavior of the crew, which, in response to my categorical demands, did not take the cargo specially prepared for transportation, about which I ask you to inform the commander of the Urals twice to the hero of the Soviet Union, Colonel General Lelyushenko. Ortyukov.
Received by Temniko"

"RADIOGRAM №10 FROM MAY 7, 1959

To Sverdlovsk, the regional committee of the CPSU, for the attention of Ermash. The regional executive committee for the attention of Pavlov.
The Ivdel city committee of the CPSU, for Prodanov. Captain Potyazhenko, the helicopter commander, has refused to evacuate the deceased, explaining his refusal with the order received from com. Gorlachenko, which [order] prohibited any evacuation without zinc boxes" (more of this radiogram but its long so I only posted the pertinent part)

I did search the site as you can see and there was an issue. But what I couldn't and can't find was: is it standard procedure to use zinc caskets and why test for radiation, not what was tested

if it was standard, as you suggest, then why were they not carrying zinc containers for the bodies? the crew felt so strongly about not carrying the bodies, that they knew they were there to get, that they were willing to defy orders. The other part of the question is: was it standard to test people for radiation when they were found frozen from a known cross country ski trip?

This is  UK source.

"A wooden coffin will need to be zinc lined, this means the coffin will need to be made airtight and hermetically sealed to meet the requirements for the repatriation of remains. If the coffin is to be used for the funeral back home, we can use a zinc cad-seal which also meets airline regulations."

"Zinc and lead minerals often occur together because, as elements, they have similar chemical behavior and combine with sulfur as primary minerals"

For Russia

Why would someone be buried in a zinc coffin?
Then, while Soviet troops battled the elusive Mujahideen in the valleys and deserts of Afghanistan, Soviet dead were sent home in the zinc-lined coffins. Zinc was cheap, readily available and didn't rust

"Its using to get corpses from one country to other. Shiping miltary and etc. In post soviet union countries zinc coffin have code name “cargo 200"

In general, (the west is the same as the east).

Why are some coffins lined in lead?
Why do they line coffins with lead?
Lead is a very ancient way to seal things. It does not decay, it is soft and easy to shape. You can fold it over and pound it flat for a good seal. And for a perfect seal, you can melt the edges and let it all flow together into one seamless piece.

There are only two flaws: it is VERY heavy, and it is not very strong. It bends too easily to make much from it.

When bodies are not embalmed, they either need to be buried quickly, or thoroughly sealed. Lead can be a good material. You can solve the strength issue by using an outer wood coffin, and lining it with lead. But that is still very heavy. Now, it would be more common to use galvanized steel sheet metal, steel electroplated with zinc, to form the liner, then molten lead is poured into all the joints to seal them.

And in the vast majority of cases now, the lead used as a sealant has been replaced by materials such as silicon. This is easier to apply and less likely to crack. The new materials are probably better choices. But when the old way goes back to the Romans…


In case you didn't understand, zinc is what they used. The date is the month of May that you quote. The bodies were rotting. This is the ravine 4 that they are talking about. Decomposing bodies. Zinc clad coffins are not for radiation but for transportation and burial.

There are discrepancies from the helicopter pilot own accounts verses the pulling of the gun.

Firstly,If the gun getting pulled is true , I would suspect the pilots didn't want dead rotting  bodies in their helicopter lying randomly about the cargo space. ( It would certainly not be for any radiation issues because they wouldn't know that there was radiation at that time) .

Secondly , the helicopter commander states that he does not recall any event of a gun getting pulled.

Thirdly ( if you look up "WAB" forum member and in his posts) he talks about procedures of loading helicopters etc.

The truth will be across these three things I would guess.

But basically, zinc is used in coffins and that's just how it is, before and after the Dyatlov case.
 
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January 08, 2023, 11:19:25 PM
Reply #4
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Почемучка


На радиацию проверяли потому что был вот такой эпизод
They checked for radiation because there was such an episode
https://dyatlovpass.com/case-files-260-ru

Between was and was not - the river of time. You have to be able to swim - not only in the water ...
 

January 08, 2023, 11:30:07 PM
Reply #5
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Ziljoe


На радиацию проверяли потому что был вот такой эпизод
They checked for radiation because there was such an episode
https://dyatlovpass.com/case-files-260-ru




Was this the reason why? I ask because I was reading the other day that they did the radiation test on the ravine 4 at the autopsy. I don't know if this is correct.

There is lots of information about these clouds in the sky etc. I don't know if that is part of the disinformation?

What do you think is the explanation for these events? I have read that there was mining going on.
 

January 08, 2023, 11:53:01 PM
Reply #6
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Почемучка




Was this the reason why? I ask because I was reading the other day that they did the radiation test on the ravine 4 at the autopsy. I don't know if this is correct.

There is lots of information about these clouds in the sky etc. I don't know if that is part of the disinformation?

What do you think is the explanation for these events? I have read that there was mining going on.
Следствие не имело права игнорировать эти свидетельские показания. Явления огненных шаров в то время связывали с запуском ракет. Потому что ядерные испытания уже были. Был Кыштым и Тоцкий полигон. Об этом не говорили открыто, но про это все - понимали. Так было в каждой стране, которая занималась ракетами и атомным оружием.
Когда Иванов получил много таких свидетельств, их - практически половина содержания Уголовного Дела: оставалось и эту версию проверить. Что и было сделано. И никакогь риска не было найти там что-то дающее улики на испытания.
Все это очень вписывалось в тему дезинформации стороны условного противника.

Наблюдателей события от 30 марта 1959 года - было очень много. Так же много было наблюдений события от 17 февраля 1959 года. Просто тогда были пуски. Ракетные пуски. 17 февраля - удачный. 30 марта - аварийный. Все это уже давно не тайна.

The investigation had no right to ignore these testimonies. The phenomena of fireballs at that time were associated with the launch of a rocket. Because there have already been nuclear tests. There was Kyshtym and Totsk training ground. This nonexistence is open, but it's all about technical means. So it was in every country that dealt with missiles and nuclear facilities.
When Ivanov received many such testimonies, they are practically half of the content of the Criminal Case: the collection and this version of the verification. Which is what was done. And there can be no risk in the tests.

All this fit very well with the topic of disinformation on the part of the conditional enemy.

There were a lot of observers of the event of March 30, 1959. There were also many observations of the event of February 17, 1959. Just then there were launches. Rocket launches. February 17 - lucky. March 30 - emergency. All this is no longer a secret.

П.С. Сэр Ziljoe, Вы стараетесь читать на русском. Вот Вам моя версия
P.S. Sir Ziljoe, you try to read Russian. Here is my version
https://taina.li/forum/index.php?topic=17176.0
Between was and was not - the river of time. You have to be able to swim - not only in the water ...
 
The following users thanked this post: Ziljoe

January 08, 2023, 11:58:45 PM
Reply #7
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Ziljoe


.

П.С. Сэр Ziljoe, Вы стараетесь читать на русском. Вот Вам моя версия
P.S. Sir Ziljoe, you try to read Russian. Here is my version
https://taina.li/forum/index.php?topic=17176.0


Thank you and I will read.
 

January 09, 2023, 12:25:12 AM
Reply #8
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Ziljoe


.

П.С. Сэр Ziljoe, Вы стараетесь читать на русском. Вот Вам моя версия
P.S. Sir Ziljoe, you try to read Russian. Here is my version
https://taina.li/forum/index.php?topic=17176.0


Thank you and I will read.

I recommend the link above to other members. Interesting and substantial.
 

January 09, 2023, 04:52:20 AM
Reply #9
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Почемучка



I recommend the link above to other members. Interesting and substantial.
Сэр Ziljoe, вы так бегло прочитали мой текст? А я там так не ограничивала все сто тысяч оттенков русского языка...
Зачет...

Sir Ziljoe, did you read my text so quickly? And I didn’t limit all one hundred thousand shades of the Russian language there ...
Well done...
Between was and was not - the river of time. You have to be able to swim - not only in the water ...
 

January 09, 2023, 06:11:41 AM
Reply #10
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Ziljoe



I recommend the link above to other members. Interesting and substantial.
Сэр Ziljoe, вы так бегло прочитали мой текст? А я там так не ограничивала все сто тысяч оттенков русского языка...
Зачет...

Sir Ziljoe, did you read my text so quickly? And I didn’t limit all one hundred thousand shades of the Russian language there ...
Well done...

I have not read in all detail. I got called away, however , there is a lot of information there, I will need to read the links and references yet.
It is a large piece of work and very interesting.

I genuinely think Monsieur Charles would have appreciated it.
 

January 09, 2023, 07:03:47 AM
Reply #11
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Почемучка



I genuinely think Monsieur Charles would have appreciated it.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2023, 07:13:46 AM by Почемучка »
Between was and was not - the river of time. You have to be able to swim - not only in the water ...
 

January 09, 2023, 10:29:09 AM
Reply #12
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Ziljoe


These videos may be an example of what the rings and lights might look like.

This seems to tie in with the observations and at twilight .



https://youtube.com/shorts/K5YVqKS6Tdg?feature=share

These rocket or fake rocket sites tie in nicely with eyewitness statements and it seems  part of the mystery solved.

If the dyatlov pass investigation was writing down these observations in the casefiles it makes more sense.