why the deceased hikers had to be found

[Ziljoe]

There was ham and rusks untouched in the open within the tent…. easy pickings for any animal but there it was still intact.

Yes and wolverines are scavengers and any scavenger in the hard winter NEVER leaves a food source unless it is driven off. Caches are not put in the ground where people can easily dig them up because of all the animals that dig into it, that is how those animals survive so yes, the ham and rusks would have been eaten. that's life and normal behavior.

What happened is not normal wolverine behavior: which is to scavenge any food that can be found in a desolate cold and never leave a food source and where there is one source of food, there is often more so the wolverine would have not only stayed in the area but actively looked for more

these reasons are why I dismissed that idea, its not within the normal bounds of behavior but I do see why others would think it's reasonable.

They are scavengers and predators.

The Wolverine may have been driven off and I will repeat the concept of the Wolverine in the instance of what might of happened. If it entered the tent and couldn't get out, whilst the dp9 were shouting or hitting it , then it is possible that it sprayed it's chemical, this is a defence reaction of the Wolverine, fright if you will. I will be honest and say I don't know enough about the Wolverine and it's spray but if we look at it from the perspective that it can do this and does it as a last resort, it gives us a reason for cutting the tent and a reason to leave. A scavenger it may be but it does not spray to win the food from other beasts but to save itself.

The Wolverine has a vast area to eat and thrive. It is only a theory but it has some merit but you seem to have more knowledge on wolverines than most . It explains a few things but ignoring the Wolverine Igor b explains a rational explanation for the injuries that follow the exit of the tent. Wolverine or not. It is worth a read.

[GlennM]

The deceased had to be found because that is human nature. Because it is human nature, the bodies of the deceased will be examined. If that examination produces an opinion of foul play, it will be made known. An unknown compelling force could be man made or natural. I opt for natural.

[tenne]

"then it is possible that it sprayed it's chemical, this is a defence reaction of the Wolverine, fright if you will."

"The wolverine stores its food in caches to eat later. It spray its caches of food with a stinky musk that keeps other animals away. The aggressive wolverine has been known to drive bears, cougars, and packs of wolves from their kills."

 "Wolverines will also spray their leftover food and bury it so they can eat it later."

"Capable of eating frozen meat and crushing bones with their strong teeth, wolverines often spray their food with musk before burying it. "

the food would have been eaten if there had been a wolverine.

What happened is not the natural behavior of a wolverine.

[tenne]

"I think the point being communicated is that helicopters can't land just anywhere. If you are refering to known landing sites that are flat, with communication with people on the ground and without obstacles that could compromise landing , then that is slightly different . Given the remoteness , trees and slopes of the area it wasn't as simple as just taking off and landing. Even the searchers had weather problems and had to find a landing site that was away from the tent. Also for the searchers camp they had to make a landing zone."

so why couldn't they do that exact same thing to bring in the tent?

[tenne]

"I can see only two other options.

1)Staged by outsiders , which leaves a lot of work and logistics to cover up. That's witnesses at airports, fuel, families of stagers , footprints, roaming random Mansi hunters, fighting weather conditions, covering up tracks, leaving nothing behind to incriminate the stagers , the camera's etc ....."

from what I know of the cold war, limited at best, that was pretty much standard operations

[Ziljoe]

"I think the point being communicated is that helicopters can't land just anywhere. If you are refering to known landing sites that are flat, with communication with people on the ground and without obstacles that could compromise landing , then that is slightly different . Given the remoteness , trees and slopes of the area it wasn't as simple as just taking off and landing. Even the searchers had weather problems and had to find a landing site that was away from the tent. Also for the searchers camp they had to make a landing zone."

so why couldn't they do that exact same thing to bring in the tent?

They could of done it . But it is not as simple as you suggest. Helicopters have got to have the flight hours recorded. Permission has to sought  for flights etc. The weather to and from the location must be suitable, as well as landing. Plus avoiding witnesses. It's just complicated to stage. 

[tenne]

"I think the point being communicated is that helicopters can't land just anywhere. If you are refering to known landing sites that are flat, with communication with people on the ground and without obstacles that could compromise landing , then that is slightly different . Given the remoteness , trees and slopes of the area it wasn't as simple as just taking off and landing. Even the searchers had weather problems and had to find a landing site that was away from the tent. Also for the searchers camp they had to make a landing zone."

so why couldn't they do that exact same thing to bring in the tent?

They could of done it . But it is not as simple as you suggest. Helicopters have got to have the flight hours recorded. Permission has to sought  for flights etc. The weather to and from the location must be suitable, as well as landing. Plus avoiding witnesses. It's just complicated to stage.

I have no doubt it would be complicated, but that's why I posted that chess masters have nothing on spy masters. that is what they were paid to do, cover up stuff. Permission may be needed, flight hours have  recorded but the airport that flies an airplane full of people into an area that doesn't exist (area 51) does so with the government's permission and yet nothing is public

[Ziljoe]

"I think the point being communicated is that helicopters can't land just anywhere. If you are refering to known landing sites that are flat, with communication with people on the ground and without obstacles that could compromise landing , then that is slightly different . Given the remoteness , trees and slopes of the area it wasn't as simple as just taking off and landing. Even the searchers had weather problems and had to find a landing site that was away from the tent. Also for the searchers camp they had to make a landing zone."

so why couldn't they do that exact same thing to bring in the tent?

They could of done it . But it is not as simple as you suggest. Helicopters have got to have the flight hours recorded. Permission has to sought  for flights etc. The weather to and from the location must be suitable, as well as landing. Plus avoiding witnesses. It's just complicated to stage.

I have no doubt it would be complicated, but that's why I posted that chess masters have nothing on spy masters. that is what they were paid to do, cover up stuff. Permission may be needed, flight hours have  recorded but the airport that flies an airplane full of people into an area that doesn't exist (area 51) does so with the government's permission and yet nothing is public

Ok, fair enough, we can add a secret area 51 to the equation in the Urals that avoid all the air traffic defence systems from the west.

[anna_pycckux]

The position of the author of the topic is correct! At first they didn't want to look for tourists. chairman of the club kept the tourist club locked up. No one paid attention to the excitement of relatives. Then the relatives said that they would have to appeal to the world community. And the CPSU authorities feared the world community and the world shame the most. After this statement, the search began. It was a theatrically staged search.
According to my version, the guys were already buried in the pit, they had to be dug out. Nurse Salter, who worked at the morgue, repeatedly said that the corpses were very dirty.
Kolevatov's relatives sent a telegram to the Kremlin - and a tent was immediately found.
CONCLUSION:: they did not want to look for the guys, the initial plan of the authorities was "disappeared, disappeared". But if the world community had responded to the call of the unfortunate relatives, the truth would have been revealed, there would have been witnesses and the guys would have been found, but only by outsiders.

[Ziljoe]

 

[tenne]

The position of the author of the topic is correct! At first they didn't want to look for tourists. chairman of the club kept the tourist club locked up. No one paid attention to the excitement of relatives. Then the relatives said that they would have to appeal to the world community. And the CPSU authorities feared the world community and the world shame the most. After this statement, the search began. It was a theatrically staged search.
According to my version, the guys were already buried in the pit, they had to be dug out. Nurse Salter, who worked at the morgue, repeatedly said that the corpses were very dirty.
Kolevatov's relatives sent a telegram to the Kremlin - and a tent was immediately found.
CONCLUSION:: they did not want to look for the guys, the initial plan of the authorities was "disappeared, disappeared". But if the world community had responded to the call of the unfortunate relatives, the truth would have been revealed, there would have been witnesses and the guys would have been found, but only by outsiders.

I hadn't thought of that angle. thank you

[Missi]

"I think the point being communicated is that helicopters can't land just anywhere. If you are refering to known landing sites that are flat, with communication with people on the ground and without obstacles that could compromise landing , then that is slightly different . Given the remoteness , trees and slopes of the area it wasn't as simple as just taking off and landing. Even the searchers had weather problems and had to find a landing site that was away from the tent. Also for the searchers camp they had to make a landing zone."

so why couldn't they do that exact same thing to bring in the tent?

They could have. But first the search groups testimonies speak of a reasonable amount of work until the landing site was finished. And second a landing site for a helicopter is not a small thing if you have to get rid of trees and flatten an area and stuff like this. So why was it not found? It should have been something obvious!

[tenne]

According to many posts I read on the russian forum, there was evidence of a wide circle of snow swept like from a helicopter blade but I haven't tracked down where they are seeing it and a landing site is only necessary if a helicopter is going to land. they hover and people and things are sent down by a line.

[Missi]

Find me a source, please. I haven't stumbled across one until now.

[tenne]

I haven't been able to find a source, only people talking about it but I haven't looked into it too far because it isn't really one of my interests.

[Missi]

I'm sorry, but without a definite source, I count that as speculation and nothing to base a theory on.

[tenne]

https://taina.li/

it is mentioned quite a lot on this forum, if you want to explore this idea, do your own research. I mentioned what I saw so if anyone else was interested they could look themselves, I have zero interest in that part so I didn't chase it further.

[tenne]

I don't consider this to be a part of my theory, it would be way too easy to winch people and things down from high enough that there would be very little wind circle, the entire area was wind blown and circles are easily wiped out.

[tenne]

since I can't modify my posts anymore for some reason

"Victor Potyazhenko claims that it was he who discovered the tent on the slope during flying over the pass, together with Ortyukov. A small group of comrades in black sheepskin coats were on the ground, with a small tent already pitched in the forest i.e. there were people present already."

"Victor Vasilyevich approached the tent, the tent was not heavily covered with snow. The tent itself was not tilted, with a slight imclination, the sidewall was cut... He looked through the entrance and saw the combat leaflet attached near the entrance ...

The tent was not collapsed, covered with snow only from the side of the slope. On the opposite side there were cuts. You could could see inside the tent.

https://dyatlovpass.com/interview-potyazhenko


this is what I was searching on the other forum to see why this isn't being talked about that much.

[tenne]

https://dyatlovpass.com/interview-potyazhenko

"The orders where to fly gave Ortyukov. He flew by helicopter to Otorten. And they sat on the pass at the boot rock"

so helicopters could land on the area as it was, without clearing a pad to land on.

[Ehtnisba]

I'm sorry, but without a definite source, I count that as speculation and nothing to base a theory on.

There is several interviews with the helicopter pilot. He says about the clearing. Sorry being lazy to search. Look up sourses under Pass without Dyatlov topic by Teddy

[GlennM]

Fact,,the hikers were found.  Fact the hikers were covered to differing degrees with snow. Fact the initial discoveries at the two at the cedar and three between the cedar and the tent were quickly made. Fact the remaining four bodies were not positioned to suggest they were hiding. Conclusion, death by natural causes, no cover up.

[Missi]

I'm not quite sure how you arrive at your conclusion, GlennM. If I'd stage something like that, I'd aim for those facts.

[GlennM]

Missi , threat actors also leave evidence of their presence while they monitored or obfuscated the crime scene. There is none. It is a fact that everyone leaves evidence of where they come.  Everyone takes away something when they leave. This is why factories have decontamination rooms. One may take the point of view that this evidence is yet to be found. It is a logical argument. It also validates my previous statements. There is always evidence, Just reflect on the extent of disturbance caused by the rescue team,even before the recovery began.

 Death from natural causes unaffected by external interference is my preferred explanation until such time as it is proven wrong. I am prepared for a long wait.I still am unconvinced a slab slip alone caused them to leave, but it was a contributing factor. I think the wind and cold precluded a quick repair of the tent.

[tenne]

", threat actors also leave evidence of their presence while they monitored or obfuscated the crime scene."

but, to set a scenario, if the scene is staged by corrupt cops and the cops that investigating it are corrupt, where would the evidence go even if it was found? why would corrupt cops be looking for evidence to convict what they are supposed to cover up?

[Missi]

Missi , threat actors also leave evidence of their presence while they monitored or obfuscated the crime scene. There is none. It is a fact that everyone leaves evidence of where they come.  Everyone takes away something when they leave. This is why factories have decontamination rooms. One may take the point of view that this evidence is yet to be found. It is a logical argument. It also validates my previous statements. There is always evidence, Just reflect on the extent of disturbance caused by the rescue team,even before the recovery began.

Yes, I agree that everyone leaves evidence of their presence. But (this is kinda nitpicking) the absence of traces of third parties was not part of your premises. I therefore didn't take that into account for your conclusion.
Plus: One could argue that traces have not been found yet, sure. One could also argue, that traces existed but have been destroyed by the search parties when still thinking they were looking for lost hikers, not for dead ones. And definitely not being at a crime scene. That'd be my point of view on that part of the mystery.

[GlennM]

I prefer Occam's Razor. It requires far less assumptions than conspiracies. It is also not as entertaining.

[tenne]

I prefer Occam's Razor. It requires far less assumptions than conspiracies. It is also not as entertaining.

you posted that no one could do that and not leave evidence behind to be found, I asked you who would find that evidence if both the stagers and the people investigating were corrupt.

Is this your answer to that question? because if it is, I am confused what you mean

[GlennM]

There were a number of people not on the government payroll involved in the search and rescue including  students and Mansi. Given the preservation of prints in the snow, it is improbable that agents covering up their crime would fail to sweep their steps after a bogus attempt to mockup a relocated tent. Next, given the paper trail and the record of eyewitness testimony, is is evident that an administrative suppression of the truth was woefully lacking when even a parent was allowed to view the body of their child. No, in my opinion, covering up a cover up does not and can not work. Here we are in this forum hashing this topic endlessly to no end.  It is like investigating an airliner crash which in spite of having no supporting evidence, the investigators insist it was sabotage. It is more of a reflection of them than the incident. Far better to accept the disaster for what it is and try to mitigate future problems.

[tenne]

There were a number of people not on the government payroll involved in the search and rescue including  students and Mansi. Given the preservation of prints in the snow, it is improbable that agents covering up their crime would fail to sweep their steps after a bogus attempt to mockup a relocated tent. Next, given the paper trail and the record of eyewitness testimony, is is evident that an administrative suppression of the truth was woefully lacking when even a parent was allowed to view the body of their child. No, in my opinion, covering up a cover up does not and can not work. Here we are in this forum hashing this topic endlessly to no end.  It is like investigating an airliner crash which in spite of having no supporting evidence, the investigators insist it was sabotage. It is more of a reflection of them than the incident. Far better to accept the disaster for what it is and try to mitigate future problems.

obviously the political situation there, where people need official permission to take a tour and the authorities can make someone leave the group and force the remaining people to take a new member

quote "At first nobody wanted this Zolotaryov, for he is a stranger, but then we all agreed, because you can't refuse"



"Prior to the dissolution of the Soviet Union and the archival revelations, some historians estimated that the numbers killed by Stalin's regime were 20 million or higher."

plays no part in people saying what they were told to say.