Assumptions and facts

[amashilu]

"The victims were thrown out of the tent by a hurricane. The direction of the hurricane is northeast east, therefore all of them are in the same line from the discovered tent …"
—Maslennikov

"One came out, he was blown away. He screamed. Everyone ran out."
—Grigoriev

A good way to approach any investigation is to do your best to weed out assumptions from facts. The above 2 statements were assumptions which were gradually scrapped because the bodies (facts), later discovered, did not fit the assumptions.

Assumption that particularly grates on me: Zina, Igor, and Rustem were "trying to get back to the tent" because their bodies were found in something of a line going up the slope. If I see you walking down a rural country road, and I know that a mile down the road is the library, I might assume that you are heading to the library. Certainly logical, but in fact, you are going to the patch of blueberries 100 yards ahead, to pick some berries to make a pie.

It would be fine with me if we all call each other out on assumptions that don't match the facts.

[tenne]

"The victims were thrown out of the tent by a hurricane. The direction of the hurricane is northeast east, therefore all of them are in the same line from the discovered tent …"
—Maslennikov

"One came out, he was blown away. He screamed. Everyone ran out."
—Grigoriev

A good way to approach any investigation is to do your best to weed out assumptions from facts. The above 2 statements were assumptions which were gradually scrapped because the bodies (facts), later discovered, did not fit the assumptions.

Assumption that particularly grates on me: Zina, Igor, and Rustem were "trying to get back to the tent" because their bodies were found in something of a line going up the slope. If I see you walking down a rural country road, and I know that a mile down the road is the library, I might assume that you are heading to the library. Certainly logical, but in fact, you are going to the patch of blueberries 100 yards ahead, to pick some berries to make a pie.

It would be fine with me if we all call each other out on assumptions that don't match the facts.

Even the date of the occurrence is an assumption based on a lack of entries in a diary.

[anna_pycckux]

"The victims were thrown out of the tent by a hurricane. The direction of the hurricane is northeast east, therefore all of them are in the same line from the discovered tent …"
—Maslennikov

"One came out, he was blown away. He screamed. Everyone ran out."
—Grigoriev
A good way to approach any investigation is to do your best to weed out assumptions from facts. The above 2 statements were assumptions which were gradually scrapped because the bodies (facts), later discovered, did not fit the assumptions.
It would be fine with me if we all call each other out on assumptions that don't match the facts.

"The guys were tricked out of the tent, for example, under the guise of helping a wounded hunter, they came out warmly dressed, and, going down the slope, they fell into a trap. They were ordered to undress, but they resisted. Then they began to be killed and forcibly undressed to create the appearance that they themselves were frozen.
 - Anna of the Russians. Saint Petersburg.All assumptions correspond to the facts.

[ilahiyol]

"The victims were thrown out of the tent by a hurricane. The direction of the hurricane is northeast east, therefore all of them are in the same line from the discovered tent …"
—Maslennikov

"One came out, he was blown away. He screamed. Everyone ran out."
—Grigoriev

A good way to approach any investigation is to do your best to weed out assumptions from facts. The above 2 statements were assumptions which were gradually scrapped because the bodies (facts), later discovered, did not fit the assumptions.

Assumption that particularly grates on me: Zina, Igor, and Rustem were "trying to get back to the tent" because their bodies were found in something of a line going up the slope. If I see you walking down a rural country road, and I know that a mile down the road is the library, I might assume that you are heading to the library. Certainly logical, but in fact, you are going to the patch of blueberries 100 yards ahead, to pick some berries to make a pie.

It would be fine with me if we all call each other out on assumptions that don't match the facts.

Even the date of the occurrence is an assumption based on a lack of entries in a diary.

very strong evidence....Diaries are written every day and if "that day" is not written, it is very likely that the event occurred on that day. At least it is definitive proof of the beginning of events!!!

[tenne]

"very strong evidence....Diaries are written every day and if "that day" is not written, it is very likely that the event occurred on that day. At least it is definitive proof of the beginning of events!!!"

well if we are going by the ending of a diary means the person is no longer alive, then Zina passed away jan 29 and Lyuda passed away jan 28

[ilahiyol]

"very strong evidence....Diaries are written every day and if "that day" is not written, it is very likely that the event occurred on that day. At least it is definitive proof of the beginning of events!!!"

well if we are going by the ending of a diary means the person is no longer alive, then Zina passed away jan 29 and Lyuda passed away jan 28

I wrote for those who write diaries every day. Of course, the diary of someone who writes one day and does not write one day is not evidence.....I knew that the diaries were complete. Especially Zina's diary

[Missi]

"very strong evidence....Diaries are written every day and if "that day" is not written, it is very likely that the event occurred on that day. At least it is definitive proof of the beginning of events!!!"

well if we are going by the ending of a diary means the person is no longer alive, then Zina passed away jan 29 and Lyuda passed away jan 28

I was about to say something along that line as well, but we have to admit, that in the group diary, there was at least one entry per day, until Jan 31.
Although I'm not sure, how sure we can be about someone taking out pages of the diaries. 

[tenne]

Zina wrote every single day until she didn't. so by that qualification, she wasn't around after the last date in her diary

[tenne]

my computer flashed and my reply was posted but not finished and I can't modify it

I believe that the diaries were tampered with so its a logical assumption to me that the reason the diary ended there was to make us think that was when the event happened

assumptions, to me, are anything that could be but we have zero proof of. We have zero proof when it happened, we can make an assumption it happened on X because of the dates.

so the date of the incident is an assumption. Could be called a logical one if a person believes they were there and put the tent up but it is still an assumption

[Missi]

By that logic, she would have died on Jan 30th. Which I guess, we would have found mentioned in some other diaries.
I also am not averse to the theory of tampering of diaries. Yet I believe it to have been tampering in form of taking away entries, not in form of adding fictional ones.
As for the date: I'm with you on that one. It might have been another date when the incident happened.

[amashilu]

"The guys were tricked out of the tent, for example, under the guise of helping a wounded hunter, they came out warmly dressed, and, going down the slope, they fell into a trap. They were ordered to undress, but they resisted. Then they began to be killed and forcibly undressed to create the appearance that they themselves were frozen.
 - Anna of the Russians. Saint Petersburg.All assumptions correspond to the facts.


This entire paragraph is speculation. No facts.

[GlennM]

1. Rustem had ice below his body. He had sufficient body heat to melt snow which then froze to ice.
2. All conscious behavior is motivated.
3. All reflexive behavior is stimulated.
4. He was found facing upslope.
5. He was found oriented toward the tent.

[ilahiyol]

The group came together from the tent to the cedar tree. Here they lit a fire to warm up and gather some courage. And they came up with a plan. The unknown force had driven them out of the tent! And they had to go back to the tent, too. And they thought that if they returned to the tent and they succeeded, they would be freed from the unknown force. Because to be able to return to the tent meant defeating the unknown force. And they would get rid of it. The two Yuri climbed a tree for a lookout. They could not see the unknown power. They thought he had gone too far. And immediately Igor Rustem and Zina started walking towards the tent. They were hurrying. They had to seize the tent before the unknown force came back again. They started to come back from the footprints they made on the way to the cedar. But the unknown force caught them halfway!!!

[amashilu]

The group came together from the tent to the cedar tree. Here they lit a fire to warm up and gather some courage. And they came up with a plan. The unknown force had driven them out of the tent! And they had to go back to the tent, too. And they thought that if they returned to the tent and they succeeded, they would be freed from the unknown force. Because to be able to return to the tent meant defeating the unknown force. And they would get rid of it. The two Yuri climbed a tree for a lookout. They could not see the unknown power. They thought he had gone too far. And immediately Igor Rustem and Zina started walking towards the tent. They were hurrying. They had to seize the tent before the unknown force came back again. They started to come back from the footprints they made on the way to the cedar. But the unknown force caught them halfway!!!

The only fact in this paragraph is "The unknown force had driven them out of the tent!" Everything else is your own assumption.

[anna_pycckux]

"The guys were tricked out of the tent, for example, under the guise of helping a wounded hunter, they came out warmly dressed, and, going down the slope, they fell into a trap. They were ordered to undress, but they resisted. Then they began to be killed and forcibly undressed to create the appearance that they themselves were frozen.
 - Anna of the Russians. Saint Petersburg.All assumptions correspond to the facts.
This entire paragraph is speculation. No facts.

evidence:
1. it has already been verified by many expeditions that it is not possible to run naked and barefoot on a snowy and rocky slope in severe frost. So the tourists came out dressed!
2. With such injuries as the guys had, it is also impossible to walk 1.5 kilometers! So they came out when they were healthy and there were no injuries!
3. The tent was cut by Sharavin and Slobtsov, the tent was also dilapidated (holes were sewn at each stop, at a halt). So the guys didn't jump out and cut the tent, it would be madness to cut their tent, which they diligently sewed up. So the guys came out warmly dressed and walked calmly.
But they were going to their doom!!! So there was a deception by which the guys were rescued from the tent.

[anna_pycckux]

Not saved, but the guys were tricked out of the tent! Terrible translation...

[Loose}{Cannon]

"The guys were tricked out of the tent, for example, under the guise of helping a wounded hunter, they came out warmly dressed, and, going down the slope, they fell into a trap. They were ordered to undress, but they resisted. Then they began to be killed and forcibly undressed to create the appearance that they themselves were frozen.
 - Anna of the Russians. Saint Petersburg.All assumptions correspond to the facts.
This entire paragraph is speculation. No facts.

evidence:
1. it has already been verified by many expeditions that it is not possible to run naked and barefoot on a snowy and rocky slope in severe frost. So the tourists came out dressed!
2. With such injuries as the guys had, it is also impossible to walk 1.5 kilometers! So they came out when they were healthy and there were no injuries!
3. The tent was cut by Sharavin and Slobtsov, the tent was also dilapidated (holes were sewn at each stop, at a halt). So the guys didn't jump out and cut the tent, it would be madness to cut their tent, which they diligently sewed up. So the guys came out warmly dressed and walked calmly.
But they were going to their doom!!! So there was a deception by which the guys were rescued from the tent.

I remember from the diaries that repairing the tent was a continuous task. 

[anna_pycckux]

I remember from the diaries that repairing the tent was a continuous task.

To assume that the guys, having cut their tent, jumped out naked means to go against human logic and common sense. Only illiterate party organs that controlled the search and controlled the investigation could come up with such a thing

[amashilu]

evidence:
1. it has already been verified by many expeditions that it is not possible to run naked and barefoot on a snowy and rocky slope in severe frost. So the tourists came out dressed!
2. With such injuries as the guys had, it is also impossible to walk 1.5 kilometers! So they came out when they were healthy and there were no injuries!  .... So the guys came out warmly dressed and walked calmly.

I agree that it is probably not possible to "run naked and barefoot on a snowy slope" for very long, but when you jump from that to the assumption that "So the tourists came out dressed!" and later "So the guys came out warmly dressed and walked calmly" you have ventured away from the facts and into the tempting world of assumptions. The case files state that the hikers' warm clothing was found still in the tent, not on their bodies:

From the case files:
On March 3, 1959 at Ivdel airport all things from the location where the tent was found were spread out and protocoled: 9 parka, 8 quilted jackets (vatnik), 1 fur jacket, 2 fur sleeveless vests, 4 shell pants, 1 cotton pants, 4 Scarf, 13 pairs of gloves (fur, cloth and leather), 8 pairs of ski boots, 7 pcs boots (valenki), 2 pairs of slippers, 8 pairs of gaiters, 3 skating caps, 1 fur hat, 2 felt beret …

And:
Official protocol report on the Tent from the Dyatlov group:
  Tent is stretched on poles and fixed with ropes, at the bottom of the tent 9 backpacks were discovered with various personal items, jackets, rain coats, 9 pairs of shoes. There were also found men's pants, and three pairs of boots, warm fur coats, socks, hat, ski caps, utensils, buckets, stove, ax, saw, blankets,

[Loose}{Cannon]

I remember from the diaries that repairing the tent was a continuous task.

To assume that the guys, having cut their tent, jumped out naked means to go against human logic and common sense. Only illiterate party organs that controlled the search and controlled the investigation could come up with such a thing

I share your thought.  I am 100% convinced they did not cut their way out of the tent. There was only 3 small cuts made, the rest of the damage was by search groups.

[anna_pycckux]

I agree that it is probably not possible to "run naked and barefoot on a snowy slope" for very long, but when you jump from that to the assumption that "So the tourists came out dressed!" and later "So the guys came out warmly dressed and walked calmly" you have ventured away from the facts and into the tempting world of assumptions. The case files state that the hikers' warm clothing was found still in the tent, not on their bodies:
From the case files:
On March 3, 1959 at Ivdel airport all things from the location where the tent was found were spread out and protocoled: 9 parka, 8 quilted jackets (vatnik), 1 fur jacket, 2 fur sleeveless vests, 4 shell pants, 1 cotton pants, 4 Scarf, 13 pairs of gloves (fur, cloth and leather), 8 pairs of ski boots, 7 pcs boots (valenki), 2 pairs of slippers, 8 pairs of gaiters, 3 skating caps, 1 fur hat, 2 felt beret …

You think correctly, but you forget that the death of the Dyatlovites, their search and the criminal case is a big provocation. The true causes of the group's death are hidden and classified. Everything is adjusted to the theory of "frozen by their own fault." After the group resisted the liquidators, they were killed and stripped. The clothes were picked up and taken to the tent. I think some of the clothes (especially the bloody ones) were thrown into the fire. Investigator Ivanov did not investigate what was in the extinguished fire.

[anna_pycckux]

I share your thought.  I am 100% convinced they did not cut their way out of the tent. There was only 3 small cuts made, the rest of the damage was by search groups.

Yes, that's it!! On February 26, when they found the tent, Sharavin cut it with an ice axe. There is a video evidence. In addition, no one had sewn up the tent, and it was flapping and tearing from the wind.

[Loose}{Cannon]

I share your thought.  I am 100% convinced they did not cut their way out of the tent. There was only 3 small cuts made, the rest of the damage was by search groups.

Yes, that's it!! On February 26, when they found the tent, Sharavin cut it with an ice axe. There is a video evidence. In addition, no one had sewn up the tent, and it was flapping and tearing from the wind.

And, it was dragged 700 meters to the helicopter landing. 

[amashilu]

It is an interesting idea that I have not come across before -- that the hikers were killed, then their clothing was removed and carried back to the tent. What would be the point of doing this?

[anna_pycckux]

It is an interesting idea that I have not come across before -- that the hikers were killed, then their clothing was removed and carried back to the tent. What would be the point of doing this?

. so that everyone thinks that the guys died through their own fault from freezing. And to hide the real crime of the party authorities (This is the version)

[Loose}{Cannon]

Есть доказательства того, что партийные власти сфальсифицировали причину гибели группы Дятлова!
Есть официальный архивный документ, отправленный в Кремль 10 марта из Свердловского обкома и подписанный лично Кириленко А.П. О том, что группа Дятлова погибла от сильного ветра по собственной вине!
Напоминаю вам, что документ был отправлен 10 марта, когда еще не было судебного расследования и 4 трупа официально еще не были найдены!! Свердловский обком в лице Кириленко спешил доложить высшим инстанциям, что "антисоветчики" ликвидированы. И Кремль, вместо того чтобы ругать Кириленко (зачем торопиться с выводами?!), подписал этот документ, то есть принял это незаконное и преждевременное заключение.

 in english also please

[amashilu]

It is an interesting idea that I have not come across before -- that the hikers were killed, then their clothing was removed and carried back to the tent. What would be the point of doing this?

. so that everyone thinks that the guys died through their own fault from freezing. And to hide the real crime of the party authorities (This is the version)

Yes, but that is not very well thought-out on the killers' part, since it would set up huge red flags and make people start to investigate -- why on earth did these people leave their tent naked? Smarter to leave their clothes on, but prevent them from getting back to the tent some way, so they could freeze to death with their clothes on. Right?

[anna_pycckux]

in english also please

Rewriting the entire document for translation into English is a long and difficult work. I will do it, but later, but for now I will briefly say. that this document is a report of the Sverdlovsk Regional Committee to the Kremlin (the Central Committee of the CPSU) about the death of Dyatlovites from a strong wind, hurricane. Signed personally by Kirilenko. The document is archived. found and published by the newspaper "KP". The document is dated March 10, signed by the country's leadership in April.

[Loose}{Cannon]

in english also please

Rewriting the entire document for translation into English is a long and difficult work. I will do it, but later, but for now I will briefly say. that this document is a report of the Sverdlovsk Regional Committee to the Kremlin (the Central Committee of the CPSU) about the death of Dyatlovites from a strong wind, hurricane. Signed personally by Kirilenko. The document is archived. found and published by the newspaper "KP". The document is dated March 10, signed by the country's leadership in April.

You need to copy from post creation page, paste to translator, copy from translator, paste to post creation…. submit.  I’ve also increased post editing to 5 minutes.

I quoted your post to preserve the text… you can copy from it.

[anna_pycckux]

Smarter to leave their clothes on, but prevent them from getting back to the tent some way, so they could freeze to death with their clothes on. Right?

Turn on logical thinking. Dressed guys would not sit silently and obediently freeze. They could have killed the liquidators themselves. Most likely, the order was: "Strip and freeze." Undressed, and even with injuries, the guys died quickly.