is this the tent was, where the skis are?

[Loose}{Cannon]

Perhaps your right and it was a sunny clear day with no wind and infinite visibility. 

[Manti]

We don't know if they were running away or walking calmly.

Not sure if you have ever shot in black and white but its very easy to get white out conditions if the settings are not proper, or if you want it to look like that, its easy to do. plus, please show me a photo of a slope like that where the tent was? As well, there are no identifying features to prove who is in this film so it could be the stagers.

I have looked at the angle of the slope and how deep they dug and I can't see it on the photos of the search anywhere. Plus, from my very admittedly bad depth perception, they were digging a lot deeper than the snow level looks like on the slopes.

But these things are the main reasons why it will never be solved unless some official information is found.

Take the helicopter, they had the technology to fly at night but I can't prove they did and no one can prove they didn't. I don't see any signs of an avalanche, even a very small one but others will.


I can't imagine anyone walking slowly away from danger, be it an avalanche, whatever. if they were that afraid, they would be running

We don't even know if the prints are from them or are human prints at all.

In case of an avalanche, there is no point in running unless to higher ground that it will miss, or behind a rock if there's one. Just make sure it's strong, you don't want to be buried under snow AND a rock. In case of fear of avalanche, maybe it makes sense to tiptoe out of there as slowly and carefully as you can so as not to trigger it. But I agree, there was no avalanche, at least if it's true the tent was found half-standing with the skis underneath. From the description, of everything in a mess inside mixed with snow, the tent could even have been carried away and buried by snow... this description contrasts somewhat with the "widely accepted" version of the tent being found still half-standing...


As for "whiteout" conditions... this is what people often find when they visit the pass in winter. If you walked down from the tent a few hours ago though, it's still possible to follow your own footsteps back. Unless you're delirious with hypothermia of course.

[Ziljoe]

True and I agree. It's all vague. What's your thoughts on what might have happened?

If I knew…. I’d write a book like everyone else.  😂

I do believe however that like in most cases where people die in the wilderness, that a series of unfortunate events culminating in a tragic outcome took place. Was any of said events influenced by any type of outside source…. no idea.  Slap slide, falling from tree, hypothermia, ravin shelter collapse, infighting, unintentional ergot poisoning, ultrasound frequencies…. lots of possible variables that when combined, can be deadly.

Well, I kinda agree with you.  . It's a mess.

[Ziljoe]

@tenne

If you read Teddy's post , it seems what was initially found at the tent is different to what the photos portray . Plus, over 3 weeks had past since the assumed time of the incident and pitching of the tent.

I did miss that, thank you.

3 weeks isn't going to erase the signs of a slab avalanche. I was looking at as many photos of slab avalanches as I could find and then comparing that to the photos of the search area and the mountain as I could. I can see zero evidence of any disturbance of snow other than around the skis where it looks like the cast off snow from the shovels after they dug the tent out.

Is it a slab avalanche, an avalanche, a small movement of snow? If it was stagers then the wind and environment hid all foot prints and movement of bodies? How does your chronological events occur in your theory from the retrieval of the bodies where the explosion happen , to the discovery by the stagers that have to transport the bodies, tent, skis, backpacks etc to the slope to Make it look like a natural event that made them look like they evacuated the tent and went down hill. What was the thinking in the stagers mind? 

You said that they used the helicopter to transport the bodies. I ask from where. How did the helicopter get to the bodies, how did the stagers find the bodies and tent and why were were they placed from the tent to the ceder to the ravine?

[Ziljoe]

@tenne

If you read Teddy's post , it seems what was initially found at the tent is different to what the photos portray . Plus, over 3 weeks had past since the assumed time of the incident and pitching of the tent.

I did miss that, thank you.

3 weeks isn't going to erase the signs of a slab avalanche. I was looking at as many photos of slab avalanches as I could find and then comparing that to the photos of the search area and the mountain as I could. I can see zero evidence of any disturbance of snow other than around the skis where it looks like the cast off snow from the shovels after they dug the tent out.

There was recent research to avalanches on the slope , in the area, I think, 1.5 km away. ( It's discussed somewhere in the forum's) . Any sign of the avalanche was gone with in an hour due to the winds and blowing snow. Obviously avalanches and snow slabs come in all shapes and sizes. 

There didn't need to be a large snow slab, slide or avalanche to make the dp9 cut the tent , only the thought from their perspective that worse could follow. The wind blows on that slope and snow constantly moves by the wind blowing old snow . It covered the three found on the slope . What potentially fell or covered the tent on the night/day will be very different 3 weeks later.  It's perhaps the stereo type of avalanche in our minds that is a problem.

At some point , signs of small avalanche's will disappear with wind etc.
It's still one of the strongest arguments in my opinion.

I have yet to see any avalanche signs vanish other than melting and I live in an avalanche area. The road I just drove on was closed 2 weeks ago for an avalanche and the signs of the avalanche are still clear, and it was a very small one off a rock wall that just blocked the highway.

I disagree they thought more would come down because 1. they knew the slope they were on, if the slab that fell was the cause, they knew the slope wasn't enough to cause any thing to worry about and
2. any experienced hiker/skier knows that you run sideways from an avalanche, not down hill.
3. they walked slowly down hill from an avalanche? that makes even less sense

Wind erosion is one of the ways that an avalanche can disappear. If the snow is not compacted and even if it is, the hard snow that is blown from the wind acts like sand blasting, think of striping paint off a car or alloys . Or sand dunes and rain on sand stone.

They might not have known the slope they were on, the slope futher up 1079 was steeper , depending on the conditions, or visabilty at the moment of erection of the tent, they may not have known exactly where they were?

They may have walked down hill because it was the safer option. If they were unsure of their location and the steepness of 1079 to their right( going down hill) may have triggered more snow,. If going to the right , then they are still exposed to the elements. Where this information and advice to go side ways in  an avalanche come froms I'm unsure. This may be skiing/ snowboard advice? But given the dp9 situation , at what point do they go side way to the alternative of finding shelter , wood and survival?

[Ziljoe]

what white out conditions? If you are saying that the spray from the avalanche would cause the white out, then there would be evidence of a large amount of snow like that flying around.

You're from Alaska, you should know what whiteout conditions are...

[RMK]

I have yet to see any avalanche signs vanish other than melting and I live in an avalanche area. The road I just drove on was closed 2 weeks ago for an avalanche and the signs of the avalanche are still clear, and it was a very small one off a rock wall that just blocked the highway.

I disagree they thought more would come down because 1. they knew the slope they were on, if the slab that fell was the cause, they knew the slope wasn't enough to cause any thing to worry about and
2. any experienced hiker/skier knows that you run sideways from an avalanche, not down hill.
3. they walked slowly down hill from an avalanche? that makes even less sense

I really think the word "avalanche" is the wrong word to describe what might be more reasonably called "downhill-snow-movement" theories.  The word "avalanche" connotes movement of a LOT more snow than would be necessary to trigger the Dyatlov Pass Incident.  If some downhill movement of snow was indeed the root cause of the DPI, we can infer that the volume of snow that moved was not all that large, considering that it did not uproot the tent, and only halfway collapsed it.

I have recently expressed my current view of "avalanche" "downhill-snow-movement" theories here.  I do not think it's far-fetched to believe that, when the Dyatlov Nine cleared a level "platform" in the snow for their campsite, they destabilized the uphill snow, in a "column" as wide as their platform.  Then, due to gravity, some of the destabilized snow would settle, downhill...onto the platform...into the campsite...and onto the tent. 

And then, we reach what is, in my view, a really crucial component of any credible "avalanche" "downhill-snow-movement" theory: after some snow fell onto the tent, the snow in the uphill "column" had stabilized (for the time being); but when the Dyatlovites attempted to clear away the snow on their tent, MORE SNOW kept coming downhill, to REPLACE what they had cleared away.

So, at any given time, relatively little snow moved downhill.  But, because an entire uphill column of snow had been destabilized, a lot of potential energy in that snow had been freed up.  So, imagine the situation from the Dyatlovites' perspective: for every kilo of snow they clear away from their half-buried tent, another kilo slides down the hill to replace it.  In such a scenario, it's understandable that they might abandon their campsite (especially if their digging tools kept getting buried under snow...although I'm not sure if that was actually the case).

(This all assumes, of course, that the Dyatlovites pitched their tent at the place where the official search found it.  I have my doubts about that assumption.)

[tenne]

what white out conditions? If you are saying that the spray from the avalanche would cause the white out, then there would be evidence of a large amount of snow like that flying around.

You're from Alaska, you should know what whiteout conditions are...

Canada isn't in Alaska so I'm not sure why you would post that?

[tenne]

Perhaps your right and it was a sunny clear day with no wind and infinite visibility. 

Good point, however, one photo doesn't prove another wasn't played with. We have no times, no dates on these photos and in the one I was talking there is nothing to indicate date, time, who is in it or where it is

[Ziljoe]

what white out conditions? If you are saying that the spray from the avalanche would cause the white out, then there would be evidence of a large amount of snow like that flying around.

You're from Alaska, you should know what whiteout conditions are...

Canada isn't in Alaska so I'm not sure why you would post that?

My ignorance, please accept my apologies. But you do know what whiteout means.

[Ziljoe]

I have yet to see any avalanche signs vanish other than melting and I live in an avalanche area. The road I just drove on was closed 2 weeks ago for an avalanche and the signs of the avalanche are still clear, and it was a very small one off a rock wall that just blocked the highway.

I disagree they thought more would come down because 1. they knew the slope they were on, if the slab that fell was the cause, they knew the slope wasn't enough to cause any thing to worry about and
2. any experienced hiker/skier knows that you run sideways from an avalanche, not down hill.
3. they walked slowly down hill from an avalanche? that makes even less sense

I really think the word "avalanche" is the wrong word to describe what might be more reasonably called "downhill-snow-movement" theories.  The word "avalanche" connotes movement of a LOT more snow than would be necessary to trigger the Dyatlov Pass Incident.  If some downhill movement of snow was indeed the root cause of the DPI, we can infer that the volume of snow that moved was not all that large, considering that it did not uproot the tent, and only halfway collapsed it.

I have recently expressed my current view of "avalanche" "downhill-snow-movement" theories here.  I do not think it's far-fetched to believe that, when the Dyatlov Nine cleared a level "platform" in the snow for their campsite, they destabilized the uphill snow, in a "column" as wide as their platform.  Then, due to gravity, some of the destabilized snow would settle, downhill...onto the platform...into the campsite...and onto the tent. 

And then, we reach what is, in my view, a really crucial component of any credible "avalanche" "downhill-snow-movement" theory: after some snow fell onto the tent, the snow in the uphill "column" had stabilized (for the time being); but when the Dyatlovites attempted to clear away the snow on their tent, MORE SNOW kept coming downhill, to REPLACE what they had cleared away.

So, at any given time, relatively little snow moved downhill.  But, because an entire uphill column of snow had been destabilized, a lot of potential energy in that snow had been freed up.  So, imagine the situation from the Dyatlovites' perspective: for every kilo of snow they clear away from their half-buried tent, another kilo slides down the hill to replace it.  In such a scenario, it's understandable that they might abandon their campsite (especially if their digging tools kept getting buried under snow...although I'm not sure if that was actually the case).

(This all assumes, of course, that the Dyatlovites pitched their tent at the place where the official search found it.  I have my doubts about that assumption.)

Plausible RMK and rational.

[Manti]

The problem for me with "avalanche" / "snow-slab" theories as put forward by the Swiss researchers is that they attribute the injuries such as the broken ribs to this event.


If instead we just think about the tent being slowly "buried" under snow, either because it was a blizzard and the tent was in the way of the wind, or because snow kept rolling down the slope because they destabilized it, or both... that's plausible. It's not deadly but they had a non-waterproof canvas tent, no sleeping bags, etc. In those situations you can't sleep there because the snow pushes the tent against your body, your body warms it up, it melts, and then you and your blanket are wet and lose heat much faster.

Maybe it's getting dark or already is, so packing up and moving elsewhere isn't an option. In this case, they walk down to the forest... But not without putting on coats and wool "overshoes" first?

[Loose}{Cannon]

A lot of them did have on their valenki. It’s obvious to me that their leather boots be wet and cold. Valenki would be warm fuzzy dryness after removing wet leather boots to dry. 

I don’t quite believe the slab slide theory simply because in that scenario I don’t believe the fashioned tent stake would still be in place, nor would the flashlight.

I admire Teddy for her theory, but we have photographic evidence that the DP9 dug in and installed their tent on the side of the slope.  😬

[GlennM]

I believe what is being inferred here is that it is a question of degree rather than kind when regardingg the slab slip theory. Nobody supports avalanche idea owing to the scale of avalanches and lack of visual evidence. A snow slip event only needed enough destructive force to precipitate what followed, namely the hikers abandonment of the tent.

The slab slip does have supporting photographic and anecdotal evidence.,If a slide impacted the tent, and if that impact made the tent unusable, then the hikers abandoned the tent. Footprints confirm,this. If Dyatlov and others died returning to the tent, then the tent and its contents were salvageable. If the tent and its contents were not salvagable, then making for the labaz instead of the tent would occur. Since the hikers did not proceed to the labaz, the tent,was salvagable. If,the tent was salvagable,then there was reason to regain the tent. It follows there was no threat at the tent. There is no physical evidence of malicious human intervention at the tent as evidenced by bloodstain, theft of property, mayhem or spent munitions. Therefore, because of natural conditions in the form a snow slide, thenDP9 abandoned the tent and died from subsequent cold and injury.

[Ziljoe]

Here's a short video that shows a small collapse on what seems like gentle slope.
Obviously it's being triggered. As manti , GlennM and RMK suggest. It doesn't need to be a full blown slide. If snow was falling or drifting and collecting above the tent, adding weight to the area they dug out for the tent , then it may well have been enough to trigger a small slab that partially collapsed the tent. Lose , dry snow , could have slowly kept rolling down once they exited the tent as RMK suggests.

Like others have said , I don't think the injuries were , or at least the serious injuries were caused at that point.

If they erected their tent as we can see in the photos and we assume the photos are genuine , then visabilty was poor and snow was drifting. They wouldn't know exactly where they were on the ridge , or what was above them.

The torch could have just been dropped on top of the first snow when getting people out. More dry snow falls and covers the tent. Over the following weeks the snow is just blown away leaving the hard snow that may have melted and froze over that time.

https://youtube.com/shorts/oiWFZUgeJV4?feature=share

[tenne]

what white out conditions? If you are saying that the spray from the avalanche would cause the white out, then there would be evidence of a large amount of snow like that flying around.

You're from Alaska, you should know what whiteout conditions are...

Canada isn't in Alaska so I'm not sure why you would post that?

My ignorance, please accept my apologies. But you do know what whiteout means.

I do know what white out means in that context, I also know how easy it is to take a photo like that, in the winter, in black and white, that would look like a white out, so I wanted to make sure we were both on the same page in the discussion

[tenne]

"The slab slip does have supporting photographic and anecdotal evidence."

Could you please elaborate on what photographic evidence you see? I have looked and to me there wasn't any evidence but I would love to see some

[Loose}{Cannon]

To me…. I see snow blowing into the hole almost faster then it can be dug. I see three dp members and one behind the camera. Where are the other 5?

I’ve seen several winter videos of the slope and if the wind is blowing, it seems like the most inhospitable place on planet earth. 

[Ziljoe]

If you're referring to the photo for the hole for the tent being dug out. There's at least 4 in the photo , potentially 6. Plus the person taking the pic.

[Loose}{Cannon]

If you're referring to the photo for the hole for the tent being dug out. There's at least 4 in the photo , potentially 6. Plus the person taking the pic.

I don’t see it but lets say 6.  Where’s the other 3?

[Ziljoe]

One of the other 3 is being chased by a Wolverine, the 2nd is getting a karatie chop to the neck and the third is getting lifted into a helicopter.....

[Loose}{Cannon]

One of the other 3 is being chased by a Wolverine, the 2nd is getting a karatie chop to the neck and the third is getting lifted into a helicopter.....

 

[Missi]

One of the other 3 is being chased by a Wolverine, the 2nd is getting a karatie chop to the neck and the third is getting lifted into a helicopter.....

The aliens are hovering over the scene watching and the wind sings in tune in infrasound? 

[Ziljoe]

One of the other 3 is being chased by a Wolverine, the 2nd is getting a karatie chop to the neck and the third is getting lifted into a helicopter.....

The aliens are hovering over the scene watching and the wind sings in tune in infrasound? 

True story....

[GlennM]

...and then there is the call of Nature.

[tenne]

To me…. I see snow blowing into the hole almost faster then it can be dug. I see three dp members and one behind the camera. Where are the other 5?

I’ve seen several winter videos of the slope and if the wind is blowing, it seems like the most inhospitable place on planet earth.

which leads to the question, if this photo shows them getting ready for the tent, why would they put a tent up there and not set up the stove in conditions like that when they could have the shelter of the forest?

[Manti]

Makes no sense, right?

But if they're not setting up the tent, what are they doing?

[Missi]

That might indeed be a photo of them building the storage at the place, the tent was found later, as Teddy suggested.

[Manti]

Why do they need to bury their stuff if they're setting up a storage?


They will go to Otorten and come back. It takes a few days. The temperature won't go above freezing point. It's mostly overcast, sunshine is rare. But new snow falls almost every day. If they dig their stuff into deep snow, it will be hard to find. I'd just leave everything next to a large rock near the ridge, maybe on the eastern side (less windy). It's easy to find on the way back, won't be covered under snow. The food will keep well... it's a natural fridge out there.


I don't know what they are doing in that photo or why, but here I will play devil's advocate and propose a scenario based more on my own experiences than the Dyatlov Pass incident:

• In a heavy blizzard, you try to ski up a gentle slope
• The snowpack is unstable due to recent snowfall, and one of the people in your group inadvertently triggers a small avalanche
• Most of you are above the fracture line but 3 members get caught and are carried down the slope and buried
• There are stony ridges and the avalanche stops before them as the slope is even gentler there
• In this scenario, you would ski down there (carefully), and start digging in the snow looking for your friends. Time is precious
• Not the best moment to take a photo, but 5 people are digging diligently and one takes a few seconds to rest and snap 2 photos to document this unexpected turn of events
• You find your comrades under the snow... unfortunately it's too late. One of them was slammed against a rock by the avalanche and broke his skull. The two others are unconscious. You try to revive them by pumping their chest (hypothermia causes the heart to stop and they got too cold under the snow)
• You are unsuccessful. After the initial shock abates, you carry your friends and bury them in the forest next to a stream and build makeshift crosses out of fir branches.
• A piece of a broken ski and several pieces of clothing remain on the slope, buried under the snow.
• Later that day the six of you set up camp some distance away as camping in the forest next to the graves feels uncomfortable.

I don't know what happens after this but wouldn't these events leave an almost identical scene to what we see on the slope?

[tenne]

"Why do they need to bury their stuff if they're setting up a storage?"

According to the official sources, their cache was buried and marked by a ski and a garter and in the trees (according to the photo of the site)

where is the tent in this scenario?

where is the evidence of the avalanche? they leave very distinct signs behind


otherwise makes as much sense as any thing else in this incident