"Today is the birthday of Sasha Kolevatov"

[Teddy]

https://dyatlovpass.com/diaries#30jan
Appropriate for this date, can anyone venture a theory why would anyone write that Kolevatov's birthday is today, the name is spelled out.
The diary entry is not dated but the way they published it in the case files must be Jan 30 or after.

Почемучка had a good run in this thread (which I intentionally stay away from) and she says basically that the notebook which Grigoriev said contained songs must have entries on the back of the pages and because of the handwriting the investigation dubbed it Zina's diary. She had another diary that was returned to her family. And she wrote in the group's diary as well. So we have:
https://dyatlovpass.com/zinaida-kolmogorova-diary (returned to her family now kept in the Dyatlov foundation)
https://dyatlovpass.com/dyatlov-group-diary (Jan 23 signed Zina)
https://dyatlovpass.com/unknown-diary → I want to talk about this diary

I have labeled it mistakenly named as "Kolmogorova's diary" but I am clueless why. Here are my questions:
Why did the investigation said it is Kolmogorova's on first place?
Почемучка says that it is because of the handwriting, they saw the other diary that said it is hers, they compared the handwriting and decided that this is also hers.
Note: we do not have scans from the originals that were included in the case files.
This is a bummer because this could have cleared this last Unknown diary how exactly the pages/entries/dates - this is haunting me.

I found Почемучка's idea very novel - that Grigoriev said that there were only songs but in fact there something more written in that notebook but here is what got me right back in the middle of the confusion: Why would Zina confuse who's birthday it was? She or whoever was the author of this line wrote: "Today is the birthday of Sasha Kolevatov."
How can she get wrong the name of the man she is still in love with? The name is written Sasha Kolevatov
Also in her confirmed diary she writes
29.1.59
Today is Yurka's birthday

I just don't buy it that she is going to write Today is Yurka's birthday and then Today is the birthday of Sasha Kolevatov.
In Russian the expressions for birthday in both sentences are very different.
"Сегодня Юрка именинник."
"Сегодня день рождения Саши Колеватова."

I am aiming for Почемучка's insight.

So when did they split the tangerine - 29 or 30? On whose birthday?
Who wrote "Today is the birthday of Sasha Kolevatov." ("Сегодня день рождения Саши Колеватова.")

[karpov]

I do not know how in other countries, but in Russia there are two different concepts of "birthday" and there is a "name day". Name days can be celebrated several times on different days of the year.

Name day (from the word name) is the day of remembrance of the saint whose name was given to a person at baptism.

You can celebrate the name day several times, it's okay. But usually one date is chosen. Either again on the nearest saint's memorial day after your birthday, or the most famous saint's memorial day. For example, Patriarch Kirill celebrates his name day on May 24, the day of remembrance of equal-to-the-Apostles Cyril and Methodius. At the same time, February 27 is a separate memorial day for Equal-to-the-Apostles Cyril, a Slovenian teacher.

https://foma.ru/imeniny-i-den-angela-v-chem-raznicza.html?ysclid=ldit94x03f721611874

[Teddy]

It's called "namesake" day. In Bulgaria this is very popular.
So your theory is that Sasha Kolevatov had a namesake day, why didn't Semyon aka Sasha celebrate too?
Sasha is short for Aleksandr.
Can you find when was the Aleksandr/Sasha/Shura namesake day in 1959?

[Teddy]

This is actually very interesting.
Can you find some information like this one bit for 1959 because they vary some throughout the years, they follow the church calendar.
https://www.calend.ru/names/1-30/

So Sasha gets tangerine for a namesake day and Doroshenko gets nothing for a birthday the day before? Because he has been a bad boy (this is a joke)?

If you find me Aleksandr's day anywhere close to January 30 1959 I will change birthday to namesake day EVERYWHERE, and it will be one mystery solved.
BUT at the time this was my first though too, because in Bulgaria we are big on namesake days. And I rejected it for some reason. I believe it was because there was no Aleksandr's day anywhere close to this date.

[Почемучка]

I am aiming for Почемучка's insight.

Я сложила все доказательства последовательно и здесь
I have added all the evidence in sequence and here
http://dyatlovpass1.ru/viewtopic.php?id=13

[Почемучка]

So Sasha gets tangerine for a namesake day and Doroshenko gets nothing for a birthday the day before? Because he has been a bad boy (this is a joke)?

Да, он был не очень хорошим мальчиком. Хотите про него почитать с точки зрения астролога? Там супер какие точные выводы
Yes, he was not a very good boy. Do you want to read about him from the point of view of an astrologer? There super what exact conclusions
https://www.regulustar.com/doroshenco-rec/

[karpov]

It's called "namesake" day. In Bulgaria this is very popular.
So your theory is that Sasha Kolevatov had a namesake day, why didn't Semyon aka Sasha celebrate too?
Sasha is short for Aleksandr.
Can you find when was the Aleksandr/Sasha/Shura namesake day in 1959?

There are many saints and new martyrs with this name in the Orthodox Church. It's hard for me to say how many there were in 1959, today there are about a hundred.

The name Alexander is a church name, if the child, for example, was called Evlampy, who is not in the saints, he could be given the name Alexander at baptism, for example

[karpov]

I was born on the day of one of the saints and a believing grandmother argued with her parents for a long time about my name. As a result, I now have two. One from the parents, the second from the great-grandmother. This is certainly not the case with Semyon, but it just says that two names for a person is not much big news.

[karpov]

Our "Почемучка" loves "brides with lanterns to look for" perhaps she will be able to make a census of all saints as of 1959.
Due to my poor eyesight, I don't see half of the text on the forum and guess about what is being discussed in the discussions.

[Почемучка]

So when did they split the tangerine - 29 or 30? On whose birthday?
Who wrote "Today is the birthday of Sasha Kolevatov." ("Сегодня день рождения Саши Колеватова.")

Это именины, день имени святого, который считается ангелом-хранителем для дитя с этим именем. Наверное Золотарев про это знал. Тут можно праздновать и до и после именно этой даты.
This is the name day, the day of the name of the saint, who is considered a guardian angel for a child with this name. Probably Zolotarev knew about it. Here you can celebrate before and after this particular date.

https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%90%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%BA%D1%81%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B4%D1%80#:~:text=30%20%D1%8F%D0%BD%D0%B2%D0%B0%D1%80%D1%8F%2C%2018%20%D1%84%D0%B5%D0%B2%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%BB%D1%8F%2C%2026,%2C%2024%20%D0%BD%D0%BE%D1%8F%D0%B1%D1%80%D1%8F%2C%2012%20%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BA%D0%B0%D0%B1%D1%80%D1%8F.

[Missi]

This might be a hilariously stupid question, but:

Why does it say "Саши Колеватова" in the unknown diary? Wouldn't that translate to Sashy Kolevatova? Wouldn't that be a female name, ending in a?
Or is it just that I don't understand some grammatical form?

[karpov]

This might be a hilariously stupid question, but:

Why does it say "Саши Колеватова" in the unknown diary? Wouldn't that translate to Sashy Kolevatova? Wouldn't that be a female name, ending in a?
Or is it just that I don't understand some grammatical form?

I'll make you laugh even more - in addition to the male name Alexander (Sasha), there is also a female name Alexandra (Sasha). Since we have few transgender people, people manage to guess despite one name who is in front of them

[Почемучка]

This might be a hilariously stupid question, but:

Why does it say "Саши Колеватова" in the unknown diary? Wouldn't that translate to Sashy Kolevatova? Wouldn't that be a female name, ending in a?
Or is it just that I don't understand some grammatical form?

Имя Александр - мужское. Имя Александра - женское. Коротко - Саша для обоих случаев. Шура - тоже самое. Так можно называть и девочку и мальчика. Это - в просторечьи. В документах будет Александр и Александр. Русский язык имеет тьму вариантов одного и того же имени. Ласковых и нежных.

The name Alexander is male. The name Alexander is female. Briefly - Sasha for both cases. Shura is the same. That can be called both a girl and a boy. This is in the vernacular. The documents will be Alexander and Alexander. The Russian language has a lot of variants of the same name. Affectionate and gentle.

[Почемучка]

This might be a hilariously stupid question, but:

Why does it say "Саши Колеватова" in the unknown diary? Wouldn't that translate to Sashy Kolevatova? Wouldn't that be a female name, ending in a?
Or is it just that I don't understand some grammatical form?

I'll make you laugh even more - in addition to the male name Alexander (Sasha), there is also a female name Alexandra (Sasha). Since we have few transgender people, people manage to guess despite one name who is in front of them

Карпов, наша последняя императрица - была Александра. Она была немецкою принцессою - в девичестве Алиса...
Karpov, our last empress, was Alexandra. She was a German princess - nee Alice ...

[karpov]

Karpov, our last empress, was Alexandra. She was a German princess - nee Alice ...

And her simple peasant could be called "shurka", though for the first and last time.

[anna_pycckux]

Appropriate for this date, can anyone venture a theory why would anyone write that Kolevatov's birthday is today, the name is spelled out.
The diary entry is not dated but the way they published it in the case files must be Jan 30 or after.

День рождения Саши - 16 ноября. Сестра Саши переписывалась с Майей Пискаревой. Из письма, цитата: "По поводу дня рождения Саши. Мама предполагала, что он выдумал это для отвлечения какой-то конфликтной ситуации". (подчеркнуто красным в скриншоте)
Sasha's birthday is November 16. Sasha's sister corresponded with Maya Piskareva. From the letter, quote: "About Sasha's birthday. Mom assumed that he made it up to distract some conflict situation." (underlined in red in the screenshot)

[Missi]

Yes, we have both names in Germany as well, Alexander and Alexandra. And here, nobody would write the one when talking about a person whose name is the other. So I was wondering, if maybe something different was meant from what we now read into it?
I do admit I get confused with all those shortenings. We have Alex for both, Alexander and Alexandra.

[Почемучка]

Yes, we have both names in Germany as well, Alexander and Alexandra. And here, nobody would write the one when talking about a person whose name is the other. So I was wondering, if maybe something different was meant from what we now read into it?
I do admit I get confused with all those shortenings. We have Alex for both, Alexander and Alexandra.

Как Вас зовут по имени? Я скажу - как Вас называли бы в России. Вам - понравится.
What is your first name? I'll tell you what they would call you in Russia. You'll like it.

[karpov]

So I was wondering, if maybe something different was meant from what we now read into it?

Features of gramatics. If I 'm not mistaken, something like this:
Nominativ  - Колеватов Александр
Genitiv - У Колеватова Александра

[Manti]

"Сегодня Юрка именинник."
"Сегодня день рождения Саши Колеватова."

To me the first one says it's Yurka's nameday, it's written in an informal way. This would be by Zina.
The second one then can't be also by Zina. It's very formal, calling Sasha by his full name. And it's talking about "birthday"... or are these terms completely interchangeable in Russian?

[tenne]

These discrepancies are why I believe that the diaries were forgeries.

[anna_pycckux]

Documents of secret agents concerning A. Kolevatov.
These documents were published by the KP newspaper. They are proof that secret agents collected all the information on the missing Dyatlov group. There is no examination of the document. It is not known by whom the text was blotted out.
1. Screenshot:
As a result of the measures taken, it was found out that Kolevatov himself, at his own request, could not voluntarily and secretly leave the territory of the USSR.
2. Screenshot:
The cases of operational accounting and agents among students and teachers were checked.... It is established that Kolevatov is actively engaged in research work. He proved himself positively at the institute. Enjoys authority among students and teachers .
.... It was decided to hold secret meetings and conversations with Kolevatov's inner circle. From Kolevatov's close connections, he was interrogated.... (erased). In addition, there was a meeting with a school teacher ...... (erased), ...., with whom he is in an intimate relationship.

[anna_pycckux]

Автоматический перевод искажен. Слово "учительница" переведено как "учитель". Русский оригинальный текст:
 The automatic translation is distorted. There is no word female teacher in English.
Документы секретных агентов, касающиеся А. Колеватова.
Эти документы опубликованы газетой «КП». Являются доказательством, что секретные агенты собирали всю информацию по пропавшей группе Дятлова. Экспертизы документа нет. Кем вымаран текст -  неизвестно.
1.   Скриншот:  В результате проведенных мероприятий выяснено, что Колеватов А С сам, по собственному желанию добровольно и тайно покинуть территорию СССР не мог.
2.   Скриншот:  Были проверены дела оперативного учета и агентуры среди студентов и преподавателей…. Установлено, что Колеватов активно занимается научно-исследовательской работой. В институте зарекомендовал себя положительно. Пользуется авторитетом среди студентов и преподавателей.
…. Было принято решение провести негласные встречи и беседы с ближним окружением Колеватова. Из ближних связей Колеватова был допрошен…. (вымарано). Кроме того была встреча с учительницей школы…… (вымарано), …., с которой тот состоит в интимных отношениях.

[amashilu]

Автоматический перевод искажен. Слово "учительница" переведено как "учитель". Русский оригинальный текст:
 The automatic translation is distorted. There is no word female teacher in English.
Документы секретных агентов, касающиеся А. Колеватова.
Эти документы опубликованы газетой «КП». Являются доказательством, что секретные агенты собирали всю информацию по пропавшей группе Дятлова. Экспертизы документа нет. Кем вымаран текст -  неизвестно.
1.   Скриншот:  В результате проведенных мероприятий выяснено, что Колеватов А С сам, по собственному желанию добровольно и тайно покинуть территорию СССР не мог.
2.   Скриншот:  Были проверены дела оперативного учета и агентуры среди студентов и преподавателей…. Установлено, что Колеватов активно занимается научно-исследовательской работой. В институте зарекомендовал себя положительно. Пользуется авторитетом среди студентов и преподавателей.
…. Было принято решение провести негласные встречи и беседы с ближним окружением Колеватова. Из ближних связей Колеватова был допрошен…. (вымарано). Кроме того была встреча с учительницей школы…… (вымарано), …., с которой тот состоит в интимных отношениях.

Anna, please translate this into English and re-post.

[anna_pycckux]

The automatic translation is distorted. The word "teacher" (feminine) is translated as "teacher". There is no word "teacher" in English.
Documents of secret agents concerning A. Kolevatov.
These documents were published by the KP newspaper. They are proof that secret agents have collected all the information about the missing Dyatlov group. The document is not checked. It is unknown by whom the text was crossed out.
1. Screenshot: As a result of the measures taken, it turned out that Kolevatov A. could not leave the territory of the USSR voluntarily and secretly.
2. Screenshot: Cases of operational accounting and agents among students and teachers were checked.... It was found that Kolevatov is actively engaged in research work. He proved himself positively at the institute. Enjoys authority among students and teachers .
.... It was decided to hold secret meetings and conversations with Kolevatov's inner circle. Judging by Kolevatov's close connections, he was interrogated.... (disappeared). In addition, there was a meeting with a school teacher ...... (vymarano),...., with whom he is in an intimate relationship.

[anna_pycckux]

there is no word "female teacher" in English.

[Manti]

"educatress". But nobody uses this word anymore. Or "teacheress". But I think we get the idea.

As Kolevatov was only found in May, the authorities it looks like considered the possibility he (along with Lyuda, Semyon, and Tibo?) might have left the Soviet Union. But it seems like their results were that he wouldn't have?

[anna_pycckux]

As Kolevatov was only found in May, the authorities it looks like considered the possibility he (along with Lyuda, Semyon, and Tibo?) might have left the Soviet Union. But it seems like their results were that he wouldn't have?

Колеватов был найден в  мае, но раньше, власть подозревала всю группу в возможном бегстве на запад. Борис Слобцов рассказывал в ТВ программе как Кириленко в феврале напутствовал их на поиски словами: "Ищите, может обнаружите, как они раздетые сбежали  в Норвегию!" По сути Кириленко раскрыл нам всю тайну Перевала Дятлова.

Kolevatov was found in May, but earlier, the authorities suspected the whole group of a possible escape to the west. Boris Slobtsov told in a TV program how Kirilenko in February admonished them to search with the words: "Look, maybe you'll find out how they escaped to Norway undressed!" In fact, Kirilenko revealed to us the whole secret of the Dyatlov Pass.

[Missi]

"Look, maybe you'll find out how they escaped to Norway undressed!"

To me, that's sounds pretty much ironic. But then again, irony does not translate well...

[eurocentric]

On the surface of things it makes logical sense to presume Aleksander was celebrating his Saints Day, but when Semyon was first introduced to the group he was another Aleksander.

Lyuda's diary, 23rd January:
"This time there were a lot of very new songs that we were writing down with the help of an instructor A Zolotaryov..."

Zina, 24th January
"With us is sr. instructor of the Kaurov sport base Aleksander Zolotaryov."

Perhaps, to make sense of this, they decided Aleksander was to have his birthday on his Saints day, and Semyon would wait until 2nd February, his actual birthday (or at least believed to be).