bruises on shins

[tenne]

According to some research I have done, it is very common for people to have bruises on the tops of their feet and toes when they get hit by a vehicle (pedestrian vs vehicle) and they lose their shoes from the force. I was looking at the autopsy reports and the shins that are all noted in the reports have bruises, scrapes on their shin and given they were wearing shin gaters I was wondering if those bruises were from their boots and garters being ripped off by the force of a hit. I can't find any information on the shins of the 4 found in the ravine, does anyone know if there were bruises on their shins?

[Missi]

I just skimmed the autopsy reports. There's nothing like that mentioned. If we trust that those reports are correct, than we can conclude, that the ravine 4 didn't have bruises or injuries on the shins.

[GlennM]

Hence the expression, " you knocked my socks off" ( impressed me greatly)
Motorcyclists lost footwear in accidents. Some lose legs attached to the footwear, sigh!

[tenne]

Hence the expression, " you knocked my socks off" ( impressed me greatly)
Motorcyclists lost footwear in accidents. Some lose legs attached to the footwear, sigh!

Pedestrian vs vehicle also results in the shoes being knocked off, not always of course, and the report of a force l could explain the bruises on the shins of 3 of them (the only 3 who had injuries shown on their shins were the only ones who had their legs shown and described so it could be either no injuries to the legs or not recorded on the others).

 "The said damage was probably caused by an impact of great force causing severe closed lethal trauma to the chest of Dubinina. The trauma was caused during life and is the result of high force impact with subsequent fall, throw or bruise to the chest of Dubinina."

[GlennM]

What we do know is they did not travel first class. We know they took turns plowing show up the Auspira. We know that bruises on knees were not the only findings. I am unsure that bruised shins are the " smoking gun" here.

[tenne]

Not sure where anyone stated it was a smoking gun. If bruises on the knees were the only finding, none of us would be here because bruised knees are not fatal and there would be no mystery.

[GlennM]

Well. I certainly will look both ways when crossing the street in 1079.  Where I am headed is trying to suss out why the hikers always posted guards. According to the diaries, there was always someone on duty by assignment or as punishment. Iam suprised the conspiracy buffs have not wrong that wet towel dry yet.Paranoia, you understand.

[Ziljoe]

Hence the expression, " you knocked my socks off" ( impressed me greatly)
Motorcyclists lost footwear in accidents. Some lose legs attached to the footwear, sigh!

Pedestrian vs vehicle also results in the shoes being knocked off, not always of course, and the report of a force l could explain the bruises on the shins of 3 of them (the only 3 who had injuries shown on their shins were the only ones who had their legs shown and described so it could be either no injuries to the legs or not recorded on the others).

 "The said damage was probably caused by an impact of great force causing severe closed lethal trauma to the chest of Dubinina. The trauma was caused during life and is the result of high force impact with subsequent fall, throw or bruise to the chest of Dubinina."

Two good impact reasons have been put forward. Tree taking on tent or a snow collapse from being in a snow cave. Both high impact.....

[Ziljoe]

I would also suspect there was a  umber of bruising , cuts and abrasions pre event of the incident. Camping, skiing, collecting/ choosing wood , pitching tent will all cause minor abrasions/cuts/bruising. Done it my self, lucky my axe was blunt others wise I'd be missing a finger. ( Don't worry , I've improved my skills) . In fact when I'm out doors my hands especially get a beating. Cut my hand twice whilst trying to show my son how to do things safely. Oh.....the irony. Stupidly sharp blade though .....

If I had been found dead, would they say I had been in a fight?

[tenne]

Well. I certainly will look both ways when crossing the street in 1079.  Where I am headed is trying to suss out why the hikers always posted guards. According to the diaries, there was always someone on duty by assignment or as punishment. Iam suprised the conspiracy buffs have not wrong that wet towel dry yet.Paranoia, you understand.

So prove us wrong.

[tenne]

Well. I certainly will look both ways when crossing the street in 1079.  Where I am headed is trying to suss out why the hikers always posted guards. According to the diaries, there was always someone on duty by assignment or as punishment. Iam suprised the conspiracy buffs have not wrong that wet towel dry yet.Paranoia, you understand.

You do understand that a stove burns wood and has to be maintained all night..  seems the rest of us got that fact

[eurocentric]

Well. I certainly will look both ways when crossing the street in 1079.  Where I am headed is trying to suss out why the hikers always posted guards. According to the diaries, there was always someone on duty by assignment or as punishment. Iam suprised the conspiracy buffs have not wrong that wet towel dry yet.Paranoia, you understand.

You do understand that a stove burns wood and has to be maintained all night..  seems the rest of us got that fact

That's one of the reasons I struggle to understand how a group of hikers might all be asleep in their tent during a hurricane, with a pile of unnecessary firewood in the middle of them, which appears to only usefully be there to offer a bulkhead protecting those on the far side of it from more serious injury when a tree collapses longitudinally along the tent's length.

Unless this stove was so cavernous that it was an all-night burner someone would need to remain awake, on firewatch shifts, to replenish it, with 4am the moment of critical cold, and this task would be even more important during high winds/chill.

I suppose the logic's obvious get-out clause is this person fell asleep.

[tenne]

Well. I certainly will look both ways when crossing the street in 1079.  Where I am headed is trying to suss out why the hikers always posted guards. According to the diaries, there was always someone on duty by assignment or as punishment. Iam suprised the conspiracy buffs have not wrong that wet towel dry yet.Paranoia, you understand.

You do understand that a stove burns wood and has to be maintained all night..  seems the rest of us got that fact

That's one of the reasons I struggle to understand how a group of hikers might all be asleep in their tent during a hurricane, with a pile of unnecessary firewood in the middle of them, which appears to only usefully be there to offer a bulkhead protecting those on the far side of it from more serious injury when a tree collapses longitudinally along the tent's length.

Unless this stove was so cavernous that it was an all-night burner someone would need to remain awake, on firewatch shifts, to replenish it, with 4am the moment of critical cold, and this task would be even more important during high winds/chill.

I suppose the logic's obvious get-out clause is this person fell asleep.

or because it was supposed to be a cold night camp out (although from what I have read it wasn't a requirement for the level 3) no one had to stay awake in shifts to keep the fire burning.

[GlennM]

Euro, there has been a suggestion  that even though cooking was done outside the tent and the stove was only used for warming the tent,  a high wind might cause back puffing in the tent. The risk of a fire within the tent is reason enough not to set up the stove. It is also good indirect evidence that conditions on 1079 their last night was severe.

[Ziljoe]

GlennM, Euro.

I think the risk of fire was minimal, it's the carbon monoxide or back draft that's the bigger danger. Robbing the tent oxygen so to speak. The same problem occurs without a stove , imagine several people inside a sowcave, submarine etc etc.

These warnings are giving today on modern tents. I believe at least in the UK that people have died because of using gas stoves for heating or other oxygen burning fires.

The link below is to UK case involving a bbq.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-21059594

This another case in UK .

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/delaware-tent-deaths-carbon-monoxide-homeless-a9344811.html


It happens. I think it's the same if on a mountain side and snow covers the tent. Those inside risk the lack of circulation of fresh air.

A watch person should be on watch , through shifts to watch that , not just the fire goes out. But the tent does not get fully covered.

[Missi]

The difference between people breathing in a kinda closed environment and a burning device in said environment is the time it takes to consume the oxygen.
It is a danger, and there are many accidents here as well. People unknowingly take a BBQ into a tent or even a hut, in order to use its leftover heat. On the other hand it's one of the rather more secure ways to commit suicide (as I've read). But you wouldn't suffocate, even if you close the door and window in your bedroom and sleep for a prolonged time. I don't think you'd need someone on guard, if you were sleeping in the tent on the slope, especially, because it's highly unlikely to cut off all fresh air by snowing in.

[eurocentric]

GlennM, Euro.

I think the risk of fire was minimal, it's the carbon monoxide or back draft that's the bigger danger. Robbing the tent oxygen so to speak. The same problem occurs without a stove , imagine several people inside a sowcave, submarine etc etc.

These warnings are giving today on modern tents. I believe at least in the UK that people have died because of using gas stoves for heating or other oxygen burning fires.

The link below is to UK case involving a bbq.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-21059594

This another case in UK .

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/delaware-tent-deaths-carbon-monoxide-homeless-a9344811.html


It happens. I think it's the same if on a mountain side and snow covers the tent. Those inside risk the lack of circulation of fresh air.

A watch person should be on watch , through shifts to watch that , not just the fire goes out. But the tent does not get fully covered.

And also to ensure the support ropes do not slacken, especially if tied to trees which might move during storms, as well as the effect of the buffeting wind, which would cause the tent canvas to come into contact with the hot stove or flue pipe, burning a hole in the most vital structural part of the tent and the top 2 eyelets on top of the tent, or allowing the stove to collapse onto sleeping hikers.

[amashilu]

All,

The topic of this thread is bruises on shins.

Therefore, your comments about oxygen in the tent might not be seen by people interested in that subject unless they happen to stumble on them while reading about bruises on shins ...  so if you want to continue discussing oxygen in the tent, please start a new topic. You are welcome to copy your messages from here to the new one.