Planting the bodies

[amashilu]

Here is something I haven't seen addressed, although it probably has been somewhere and I just missed it.

There are, as you know, theories in which the bodies were moved after death or planted as part of a cover-up; well, if it were ME planting them, I would put them as far away from the original incident as I could, in order to keep searchers and investigators from finding the site where it all happened. I can't help but wonder if, in the last 60 years, have searchers ventured away from the place where the bodies were actually found and looked elsewhere, for example, on the other side of the pass? Just wondering if I've missed this information somewhere ...

[tenne]

I have thought the same thing, the tent was set up in a very obvious place so it wouldn't be missed. I haven't seen anything about looking elsewhere but I agree that what ever happened, happened somewhere else. The cold war had made cover ups and forgeries into an art so they were experienced in this.

[Manti]

According to https://dyatlovpass.com/novokreschenov-2008 Tempalov said that there were craters in the area including on the other side of the Ural range.

Searchers explored at least the area between Kholat and Otorten, because there was a group dropped off on Otorten who skied to the pass.

[Missi]

I gathered from Teddy's book, that at least some of the researchers of the last years ventured into the woods. It's mentioned, that the proposed tree, that fell on the tent, could be one of several that were found during those ventures into the nearby woods.

[GlennM]

Yes, if it is misdirection you are after, then move the tent a mile uphill. While you are at it, take some bodies up there too to make it look like they were caught out in an avalanche or rockslide. Someone way back when was obviously not clear on the whole deception concept.

[tenne]

well, lets see...

considering the fact that YOU believe it was due to natural circumstances, I would say they succeeded in at least fooling some of the people

as the saying goes

 You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time.

I can't imagine anything thinking they would fool everyone, especially in a political climate where the victims families and people involved in the search didn't dare say anything else.

[Ehtnisba]

well, lets see...

considering the fact that YOU believe it was due to natural circumstances, I would say they succeeded in at least fooling some of the people

as the saying goes

 You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time.

I can't imagine anything thinking they would fool everyone, especially in a political climate where the victims families and people involved in the search didn't dare say anything else.

Their relatives and many others are not fooled. But if not official person is claiming it is just civilian blabber. On official level you keep your mouth shut, if you are not fooled.

[GlennM]

well, lets see...

considering the fact that YOU believe it was due to natural circumstances, I would say they succeeded in at least fooling some of the people

as the saying goes

 You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time.

I can't imagine anything thinking they would fool everyone, especially in a political climate where the victims families and people involved in the search didn't dare say anything else.

It is just that my point of view requires fewer assumptions than other points of view. The whole point to the forum is to,achieve the " a ha!" moment when all is perfectly clear. Be careful with the terms you use, if you are found to be wrong in light of new evidence, then you too become "some of the people."

[GlennM]

We understand there was a flashlight on to of the tent and another midway down the slopes. Flashlights can be signaling beacons. If these flashlights were signaling beacons, we may assume that no signaling beacon is necessary for a place the hikers wished to abandon and not return. If the beacons were meant to guide the return then we may conclude the tent was always on 1079 where found. If the flashlights were beacons and if those beacons were laid close to the ground, then there may be an arguable reason for climbing the cedar for orientation.to the tent. . Finally, murderers and people covering up an accident are not going to leave flashlights laying around. That would be illogical and unwise.

[Ziljoe]

We understand there was a flashlight on to of the tent and another midway down the slopes. Flashlights can be signaling beacons. If these flashlights were signaling beacons, we may assume that no signaling beacon is necessary for a place the hikers wished to abandon and not return. If the beacons were meant to guide the return then we may conclude the tent was always on 1079 where found. If the flashlights were beacons and if those beacons were laid close to the ground, then there may be an arguable reason for climbing the cedar for orientation.to the tent. . Finally, murderers and people covering up an accident are not going to leave flashlights laying around. That would be illogical and unwise.

The two torches are of interest. I can see how the one at the tent gets left behind or dropped. The one Futher down the slope is , for me the most interesting. Why drop it there? Even a broken torch is a useful survival tool. Metal, glass etc. If it's night time, you need the light? If your in a fight you can use to hit people. Definitely odd to place it there on purpose....

[GlennM]

I agree Ziljoe that dropping the flashlight on what we might think is a random location on the path is strange. What about this case that isn't, my friend. We could speculate that some bad boys dropped it while staging the phony tent. This out of neglect. But then there is the whole nagging thing about the prints they would make dragging the tent and everything else up from the woods.

If on the other hand, the found prints are indicative of a deliberate trek from slope to woods, a beacon dropped half way'ish would not be illogical, but not really that useful. Doubly so if it 2as blowing snow at the time.

[Missi]

A beacon is a nice idea. But if they had left a torchlight switched on in the night of Feb 1. It would be impossible that three weeks later, when the tent was found, someone switched it on and verified its working condition.

I always thought, that a torchlight left in the night of the incident would be covered with more than just a little snow, as it was reported. But one could argue about that. What I find most intriguing is the fact, that the light was working, when switched on, when it was found. How long would a battery at the end of the 1950's keep charged, when in temperatures below freezing?

[tenne]

We understand there was a flashlight on to of the tent and another midway down the slopes. Flashlights can be signaling beacons. If these flashlights were signaling beacons, we may assume that no signaling beacon is necessary for a place the hikers wished to abandon and not return. If the beacons were meant to guide the return then we may conclude the tent was always on 1079 where found. If the flashlights were beacons and if those beacons were laid close to the ground, then there may be an arguable reason for climbing the cedar for orientation.to the tent. . Finally, murderers and people covering up an accident are not going to leave flashlights laying around. That would be illogical and unwise.

the recent quadruple murder in Idaho where the murderer accidently left the sheath to the knife used in the murders on the bed, never happened according to your logic that murderers are not going to leave evidence behind.

[GlennM]

We understand there was a flashlight on to of the tent and another midway down the slopes. Flashlights can be signaling beacons. If these flashlights were signaling beacons, we may assume that no signaling beacon is necessary for a place the hikers wished to abandon and not return. If the beacons were meant to guide the return then we may conclude the tent was always on 1079 where found. If the flashlights were beacons and if those beacons were laid close to the ground, then there may be an arguable reason for climbing the cedar for orientation.to the tent. . Finally, murderers and people covering up an accident are not going to leave flashlights laying around. That would be illogical and unwise.

the recent quadruple murder in Idaho where the murderer accidently left the sheath to the knife used in the murders on the bed, never happened according to your logic that murderers are not going to leave evidence behind.

Just to be abundantly clear, I have written several times that everyone brings evidence of where they have been when they enter a scene and everybody takes something away when they leave. There are no exceptions. Thank you for demonstrating my point. Now to elaborate, no murderers were involved, period.

[tenne]

We understand there was a flashlight on to of the tent and another midway down the slopes. Flashlights can be signaling beacons. If these flashlights were signaling beacons, we may assume that no signaling beacon is necessary for a place the hikers wished to abandon and not return. If the beacons were meant to guide the return then we may conclude the tent was always on 1079 where found. If the flashlights were beacons and if those beacons were laid close to the ground, then there may be an arguable reason for climbing the cedar for orientation.to the tent. . Finally, murderers and people covering up an accident are not going to leave flashlights laying around. That would be illogical and unwise.

the recent quadruple murder in Idaho where the murderer accidently left the sheath to the knife used in the murders on the bed, never happened according to your logic that murderers are not going to leave evidence behind.

Just to be abundantly clear, I have written several times that everyone brings evidence of where they have been when they enter a scene and everybody takes something away when they leave. There are no exceptions. Thank you for demonstrating my point. Now to elaborate, no murderers were involved, period.

I am glad you are so certain of that, it definitely proves that the cover up worked for at least some people. Without your very emphatic and certain posts we might think that the cover up didn't work but thanks to you, we know it did

[GlennM]

I agree with the some people part.

[Ziljoe]

I agree with the some people part.

True....

[eurocentric]

Here is something I haven't seen addressed, although it probably has been somewhere and I just missed it.

There are, as you know, theories in which the bodies were moved after death or planted as part of a cover-up; well, if it were ME planting them, I would put them as far away from the original incident as I could, in order to keep searchers and investigators from finding the site where it all happened. I can't help but wonder if, in the last 60 years, have searchers ventured away from the place where the bodies were actually found and looked elsewhere, for example, on the other side of the pass? Just wondering if I've missed this information somewhere ...

Maybe they were planted somewhere else...

As a 'variation on a tree theme' I have sometimes wondered if a helilogging accident occurred, the loggers working after sunset, which came as early as 4:35pm, let's say until 7pm, under pressure to clear a large number of magnetic anomaly areas of trees as part of the Cold War effort (assuming this is mainly a search for uranium), and also knowing they would be grounded for 48hrs when the storm came.

They might light fires as workzone beacons, and a dropzone fire, these seen as the orange orbs witnesses saw from distant peaks, and because this wasn't a harvesting operation with waiting trucks logs were released mid-air from a hydraullic grappler under a helicopter.

The hikers campfire gets mistaken for the dropzone and injures the hikers and wrecks their tent with falling/rolling logs and snapped branches cascading down causing head injuries. 48hrs later the loggers fly back and see the carnage, and by then any survivors have perished in the cold.

The loggers would have a very powerful motive to cover-up what happened, and falsify their work records and flight clearances. They were experts in forest clearance and had the tools, their helicopter/s, nobody else needed to be involved, they protected themselves because they were directly responsible, criminally negligent in an industrial accident when they were doing something unsafe.

In the context of this theory the night photo's on Semyon's camera become what he might have seen as the dangerous fools flying over their heads, then the accident happens.

However, any restaging theory founders on those 2 trench digging photo's IMO. They cannot be of a high altitude a labaz, they are not retaining any snow with which to backfill a hole if intending to bury anything.

[GlennM]

I like Occam's Razor, myself.

[Missi]

Here is something I haven't seen addressed, although it probably has been somewhere and I just missed it.

There are, as you know, theories in which the bodies were moved after death or planted as part of a cover-up; well, if it were ME planting them, I would put them as far away from the original incident as I could, in order to keep searchers and investigators from finding the site where it all happened. I can't help but wonder if, in the last 60 years, have searchers ventured away from the place where the bodies were actually found and looked elsewhere, for example, on the other side of the pass? Just wondering if I've missed this information somewhere ...

Maybe they were planted somewhere else...

As a 'variation on a tree theme' I have sometimes wondered if a helilogging accident occurred, the loggers working after sunset, which came as early as 4:35pm, let's say until 7pm, under pressure to clear a large number of magnetic anomaly areas of trees as part of the Cold War effort (assuming this is mainly a search for uranium), and also knowing they would be grounded for 48hrs when the storm came.

They might light fires as workzone beacons, and a dropzone fire, these seen as the orange orbs witnesses saw from distant peaks, and because this wasn't a harvesting operation with waiting trucks logs were released mid-air from a hydraullic grappler under a helicopter.

The hikers campfire gets mistaken for the dropzone and injures the hikers and wrecks their tent with falling/rolling logs and snapped branches cascading down causing head injuries. 48hrs later the loggers fly back and see the carnage, and by then any survivors have perished in the cold.

The loggers would have a very powerful motive to cover-up what happened, and falsify their work records and flight clearances. They were experts in forest clearance and had the tools, their helicopter/s, nobody else needed to be involved, they protected themselves because they were directly responsible, criminally negligent in an industrial accident when they were doing something unsafe.

In the context of this theory the night photo's on Semyon's camera become what he might have seen as the dangerous fools flying over their heads, then the accident happens.

However, any restaging theory founders on those 2 trench digging photo's IMO. They cannot be of a high altitude a labaz, they are not retaining any snow with which to backfill a hole if intending to bury anything.

That's an interesting idea. Do you suggest, that besides the event itself, the cover up happened as the theory says? Or is there something you might want to add in detail?

[RMK]

Maybe they were planted somewhere else...

As a 'variation on a tree theme' I have sometimes wondered if a helilogging accident occurred, the loggers working after sunset, which came as early as 4:35pm, let's say until 7pm, under pressure to clear a large number of magnetic anomaly areas of trees as part of the Cold War effort (assuming this is mainly a search for uranium), and also knowing they would be grounded for 48hrs when the storm came.

They might light fires as workzone beacons, and a dropzone fire, these seen as the orange orbs witnesses saw from distant peaks, and because this wasn't a harvesting operation with waiting trucks logs were released mid-air from a hydraullic grappler under a helicopter.

The hikers campfire gets mistaken for the dropzone and injures the hikers and wrecks their tent with falling/rolling logs and snapped branches cascading down causing head injuries. 48hrs later the loggers fly back and see the carnage, and by then any survivors have perished in the cold.

The loggers would have a very powerful motive to cover-up what happened, and falsify their work records and flight clearances. They were experts in forest clearance and had the tools, their helicopter/s, nobody else needed to be involved, they protected themselves because they were directly responsible, criminally negligent in an industrial accident when they were doing something unsafe.

In the context of this theory the night photo's on Semyon's camera become what he might have seen as the dangerous fools flying over their heads, then the accident happens.

However, any restaging theory founders on those 2 trench digging photo's IMO. They cannot be of a high altitude a labaz, they are not retaining any snow with which to backfill a hole if intending to bury anything.

That's an interesting idea: a logging accident involving helicopters.  I don't think I've encountered that one before.

[eurocentric]

That's an interesting idea. Do you suggest, that besides the event itself, the cover up happened as the theory says? Or is there something you might want to add in detail?

I would go with what the book 1079 suggests with the exception that 4 men didn't push a sled up the mountain at night, defying exposure and frostbite and with the night vision to spot a pennant marking out a labaz.

Instead they'd use the convenience of their helicopter to airlift the tent/contents to the ridge, maybe the tent used as the sling, this airlift creating the 2 swirls in the snow seen by Sharavin (from two transits) and the possibility men could alight onto the snow while the helicopter hovered a few feet from the surface (it could not risk landing up there). Then they walk down. Otherwise where were their uphill prints, and all sled tracks, and how did 4 go up but '8 or 9' came down.

The various DPI witness statements about a white light shrouded in mist at dawn and coloured lights in the evening are likely the commuting transits of helicopters. They have green and red, I think the case files mentions blue and red though. Surprised they couldn't hear the 'chopper' sound, but I suppose that depends on wind direction, distance and atmospherics.

[GlennM]

Head conspirator, " Don't tell me you forgot the bodies!"
Copter pilot, " Well. It was,dark...."
Other conspirator," Well there were a couple of guys down there by the tree,  but nobody said to move them,,so..."
Head conspirator, " Who is going to believe this?"
Other conspirator, " I don't know,,but it looks pretty real., and it might snowmsome more"

Me, I don't buy it.

[Missi]

That's an interesting idea. Do you suggest, that besides the event itself, the cover up happened as the theory says? Or is there something you might want to add in detail?

I would go with what the book 1079 suggests with the exception that 4 men didn't push a sled up the mountain at night, defying exposure and frostbite and with the night vision to spot a pennant marking out a labaz.

Instead they'd use the convenience of their helicopter to airlift the tent/contents to the ridge, maybe the tent used as the sling, this airlift creating the 2 swirls in the snow seen by Sharavin (from two transits) and the possibility men could alight onto the snow while the helicopter hovered a few feet from the surface (it could not risk landing up there). Then they walk down. Otherwise where were their uphill prints, and all sled tracks, and how did 4 go up but '8 or 9' came down.

The various DPI witness statements about a white light shrouded in mist at dawn and coloured lights in the evening are likely the commuting transits of helicopters. They have green and red, I think the case files mentions blue and red though. Surprised they couldn't hear the 'chopper' sound, but I suppose that depends on wind direction, distance and atmospherics.

The book 1079? What is the exact title and who is the author? Most books about the subject have similar titles...

About the rest... I think, my brain's too tired. I will have to come back and understand better...

[GlennM]

If it about planting bodies,,that is different from discarding them. If bodies are planted there will be method to it. It would be logical to be as "vanilla" as possible to avoid questions. Case in point, in the ravine, would you deliberately pose two men together, not knowing if they had any friendship at all? Would you plant a girl in such a way,as,to  suggest she was trying to reach her companions who are not posed to help her?

Planting bodies is a deliberate act, and as such there will be symbolism associated with it. With arms and legs movable or frozen, the intent is to convey a story about them.

It is altogether too obvious when a body is planted. We can't even agree on whether Igor was planted, turned face up by his two friends when he fell, or flipped over by curious natives.

There was no planting of the corpses, just the natural consequence of merciless Nature.