Theory of DP group killed by false denunciation

[Ziljoe]

We need direct evidence and not random witnesses at the time speculating. Has anyone got any?

Я вам назвала 7 пунктов. Авторитетные свидетели, архивные документы.. Материалы уголовного дела. С чем вы не согласны?

I've given you proof. Authoritative witnesses, archival documents.. Materials of the criminal case. What do you disagree with?

I have not seen proof. Your proof is other people's speculation? I disagree with rape for a start. You only give other people's ramblings as far as I can see. I admit I've not read all of your data. It's difficult to be honest. You say others have your book etc but I don't understand why you are not main stream yet? Others have evaluated your theory but remain unconvinced.

I honestly don't know what you are putting forward. Here's what I think I know . You say liquidators were employed to kill the dp9 because the were reported as in going to leave the country. They were killed. An error was made as actually they were loyal students to the regime. The government closed the case because it was a mess. Is this it?

[anna_pycckux]

I honestly don't know what you are putting forward. Here's what I think I know . You say liquidators were employed to kill the dp9 because the were reported as in going to leave the country. They were killed. An error was made as actually they were loyal students to the regime. The government closed the case because it was a mess. Is this it?

1. вы считаете, что самые главные свидетели: Слобцов, Аскенадзи, Ю. Юдин - несут бредни?
2. По поводу изнасилования Люды я опиралась только на Суд-мед-экспертизу.

1. Do you think that the most important witnesses: Slobtsov, Askenadzi, Yu. Yudin - carry nonsense?
2. About the rape of Luda, I relied only on the Court-medical examination.

[anna_pycckux]

I have not seen proof. Your proof is other people's speculation? I disagree with rape for a start. You only give other people's ramblings as far as I can see. I admit I've not read all of your data. It's difficult to be honest. You say others have your book etc but I don't understand why you are not main stream yet? Others have evaluated your theory but remain unconvinced.

Да, скорее всего, я ближе всех подошла к  истине и меня так же удивляет тот факт, что моя версия еще не стала основной. Никому не хочется признать, что тайну разгадала пенсионерка из Санкт-Петербурга. Но нужно быть честными, только идя в этом направлении - тайна будет раскрыта полностью. Нужны архивные документы, но они засекречены. И беда в том, что партийная власть не оставляла преступных письменных приказов. Нет приказа стрелять в рабочих Новочеркасска, нет приказа вводить войска в Венгрию.....

Yes, most likely, I am the closest to the truth and I am also surprised by the fact that my version has not yet become the main one. No one wants to admit that a pensioner from St. Petersburg solved the mystery. But we need to be honest, only going in this direction - the mystery will be revealed completely. We need archival documents, but they are classified. And the trouble is that the party authorities did not leave criminal written orders. There is no order to shoot at the workers of Novocherkassk, there is no order to send troops into Hungary.....

[Ziljoe]

I have not seen proof. Your proof is other people's speculation? I disagree with rape for a start. You only give other people's ramblings as far as I can see. I admit I've not read all of your data. It's difficult to be honest. You say others have your book etc but I don't understand why you are not main stream yet? Others have evaluated your theory but remain unconvinced.

Да, скорее всего, я ближе всех подошла к  истине и меня так же удивляет тот факт, что моя версия еще не стала основной. Никому не хочется признать, что тайну разгадала пенсионерка из Санкт-Петербурга. Но нужно быть честными, только идя в этом направлении - тайна будет раскрыта полностью. Нужны архивные документы, но они засекречены. И беда в том, что партийная власть не оставляла преступных письменных приказов. Нет приказа стрелять в рабочих Новочеркасска, нет приказа вводить войска в Венгрию.....

Yes, most likely, I am the closest to the truth and I am also surprised by the fact that my version has not yet become the main one. No one wants to admit that a pensioner from St. Petersburg solved the mystery. But we need to be honest, only going in this direction - the mystery will be revealed completely. We need archival documents, but they are classified. And the trouble is that the party authorities did not leave criminal written orders. There is no order to shoot at the workers of Novocherkassk, there is no order to send troops into Hungary.....

I do not agree you are most likely closest to the truth. Many people claim that. Being a pensioner or from St Petersburg has little do to with anything. .I do not wish that to sound disrespectful but facts are needed.

Regarding "There is no order to shoot at the workers of Novocherkassk, there is no order to send troops into Hungary."

Probably means there is no order to do so, like wise, in the riots that appear in other parts of the world , or any shootings that happen by those with guns. No orders were given . It would most likely be done by evaluation at the time and training. Things get out of hand from time to time. People have an itchy trigger finger when things escalate.

[Ziljoe]

I honestly don't know what you are putting forward. Here's what I think I know . You say liquidators were employed to kill the dp9 because the were reported as in going to leave the country. They were killed. An error was made as actually they were loyal students to the regime. The government closed the case because it was a mess. Is this it?

1. вы считаете, что самые главные свидетели: Слобцов, Аскенадзи, Ю. Юдин - несут бредни?
2. По поводу изнасилования Люды я опиралась только на Суд-мед-экспертизу.

1. Do you think that the most important witnesses: Slobtsov, Askenadzi, Yu. Yudin - carry nonsense?
2. About the rape of Luda, I relied only on the Court-medical examination.

I do not think they carry nonsense but confusion and the same speculation as us. What is factual about their statements?

There is no evidence of rape.

[Ziljoe]

You ask a lot of questions. in my book there are simple and reliable answers to all questions. The book has over 300 pages. I can't post all the text here.
1. the guys left the tent, they were forced to leave by deception (for example, they were asked to help a wounded hunter). It has already been proven that it is impossible to walk 1.5 kilometers naked and barefoot!!! This has been proven by the best sportsmen-tourists.
2. All injuries speak of a fight: almost all the guys have traumatic brain injuries, neck injuries (from a butt hit in the Adam's apple?). take a look at the posthumous photograph of Rustik: a complete hematoma of the face, clenched fists, etc.
3. Only the liquidators could cut the tent!!! The guys were constantly sewing up their tent!!!! Check out my version in the "Order on State Liquidation" section.. .


Answer the questions here , I'm not interested in your book. You don't need all the 300 pages, just the facts.

People have walked the distance in socks , with no harm. It's been proven it's possible.

Put your facts here and forget promoting your book.

[GlennM]

...because it is an altogether stupid place to make a run for a border from. Now, if they were going to do something like this they:
1. Go to Ortoten
2. Make camp
3. Induce an avalanche
4. Bug out.

...because it is an altogether stupid place to make a run for a border.

[Ziljoe]

What about the aftermath for their friends and family and those that helped them escape to the utopia of the west? Would their family and friends not get thrown in to hell by the brutal regime?

[GlennM]

What about the aftermath for their friends and family and those that helped them escape to the utopia of the west? Would their family and friends not get thrown in to hell by the brutal regime?

Put differently, who among them was willing to throw their mother under the bus?

[Ziljoe]

What about the aftermath for their friends and family and those that helped them escape to the utopia of the west? Would their family and friends not get thrown in to hell by the brutal regime?

Put differently, who among them was willing to throw their mother under the bus?

Agree and thank you for putting it more eloquently.

[Missi]

Let's assume, they wanted to defect.

It's pretty far to any border with a western country. Not taking into account, that they'd need food for quite a long time, I'm wondering:

How dense was the population of Russia in those days? Would it be possible without taking great chances, to ski the way to a border? Wouldn't they have to pass cities?

[Ziljoe]

Let's assume, they wanted to defect.

It's pretty far to any border with a western country. Not taking into account, that they'd need food for quite a long time, I'm wondering:

How dense was the population of Russia in those days? Would it be possible without taking great chances, to ski the way to a border? Wouldn't they have to pass cities?

It's a huge distance. If they planned it, why waste several days taking photos of manti tree carvings and taking photos. They had a small window to keep up the pretence . The diaries and photos show they were doing what they were doing with all innocence and intended route , up untill the date date of the incident.

[anna_pycckux]

It's a huge distance. If they planned it, why waste several days taking photos of manti tree carvings and taking photos. They had a small window to keep up the pretence . The diaries and photos show they were doing what they were doing with all innocence and intended route , up untill the date date of the incident.

Они не планировали это. Еще раз повторить?

They didn't plan this. Repeat it again?

[Ziljoe]

It's a huge distance. If they planned it, why waste several days taking photos of manti tree carvings and taking photos. They had a small window to keep up the pretence . The diaries and photos show they were doing what they were doing with all innocence and intended route , up untill the date date of the incident.

Они не планировали это. Еще раз повторить?

They didn't plan this. Repeat it again?

Repeat what?

[anna_pycckux]

They didn't plan anything, the denunciation was false! Repeat it again?

[Ziljoe]

They didn't plan anything, the denunciation was false! Repeat it again?

What denunciation? I need context . I do not understand.

[Ziljoe]

They didn't plan anything, the denunciation was false! Repeat it again?

What denunciation? I need context . I do not understand.

Go into reverse. Something has been lost in communication

[anna_pycckux]

Are you talking about logic here?  take a ruler and measure the distance to the nearest "abroad", and then take your skis and try to walk at least a kilometer through the snow-covered mountains in -30 degrees frost.  “serious false (!) denunciations”????  It's really funny for me to read this.

Умеешь пользоваться линейкой? Вау! Осталось научиться пользоваться мозгами.
Do you know how to use a ruler? Wow! It remains to learn how to use brains.

I will take the hit for being stupid and not using brains. Here's where I'm at Anna and it's not coming across logical. (To stupid me at least) . Are you saying false accusations were made against the DP9 , the KGB acted on these false allegations and "liquidated them". It was then found out that the dp9  were loyal and thenpowers that be / government covered it all up?.
It's not making sense.

вот твой контекст!! троллинг зачтен!! 
here's your context!! trolling is credited!!

[Ziljoe]

Are you talking about logic here?  take a ruler and measure the distance to the nearest "abroad", and then take your skis and try to walk at least a kilometer through the snow-covered mountains in -30 degrees frost.  “serious false (!) denunciations”????  It's really funny for me to read this.

Умеешь пользоваться линейкой? Вау! Осталось научиться пользоваться мозгами.
Do you know how to use a ruler? Wow! It remains to learn how to use brains.

I will take the hit for being stupid and not using brains. Here's where I'm at Anna and it's not coming across logical. (To stupid me at least) . Are you saying false accusations were made against the DP9 , the KGB acted on these false allegations and "liquidated them". It was then found out that the dp9  were loyal and thenpowers that be / government covered it all up?.
It's not making sense.

вот твой контекст!! троллинг зачтен!! 
here's your context!! trolling is credited!!

You are mistaken regarding any accusation of trolling.

I haven't a full understanding of your evidence or what you are actually putting forward. In a nut shell, from my perspective, you are putting other people's speculation as fact. I am asking you, what is your theory, you then say , read my book.

This may be my problem and not yours. What are you saying happened to the dp9. In a short bullet point of way . I have to ask you this because I do not understand yet. As far as I understand , you say it was liquidators.

[GlennM]

[quote author=Missi
How dense was the population of Russia in those days? Would it be possible without taking great chances, to ski the way to a border? Wouldn't they have to pass cities?
[/quote]
They were probably of normal intelligence. Some of our contemporaries on the forum, I'm not as sure.

[Missi]

[quote author=Missi
How dense was the population of Russia in those days? Would it be possible without taking great chances, to ski the way to a border? Wouldn't they have to pass cities?

They were probably of normal intelligence. Some of our contemporaries on the forum, I'm not as sure.
[/quote]

That was meant as a joke, right? In that case: 

[Ehtnisba]

They didn't plan anything, the denunciation was false! Repeat it again?

What denunciation? I need context . I do not understand.

Go into reverse. Something has been lost in communication

They were falsely accussed. DP9 didn't plan anything and were doing what is normal to be done on such hike.

[Ziljoe]

They didn't plan anything, the denunciation was false! Repeat it again?

What denunciation? I need context . I do not understand.

Go into reverse. Something has been lost in communication

They were falsely accussed. DP9 didn't plan anything and were doing what is normal to be done on such hike.

Excellent . I was getting confused by another forum members interpretation. Well, that gives a motive at least and a reasonable and embarrassing reason to cover it up.

[karpov]

Do you know how to use a ruler? Wow! It remains to learn how to use brains.

Are you not familiar with such elementary things as the map scale and the fact that you can measure the distance on the map with a ruler, and then use the scale to calculate (in your case on a calculator) the distance in kilometers to the nearest border? What a horror.

[amashilu]

Clarification here:

Anna is not saying that the hikers were planning to flee the country. She is saying that the Soviet authorities believed they were, so they issued an order of liquidation. Is that right, Anna?

... and, everyone, there is a line between respect and disrespect; please be careful not to cross it.

[anna_pycckux]

Clarification here: Anna is not saying that the hikers were planning to flee the country. She is saying that the Soviet authorities believed they were, so they issued an order of liquidation. Is that right, Anna?... and, everyone, there is a line between respect and disrespect; please be careful not to cross it.

Да, я уже криком кричу, что туристы не собирались никуда бежать. Но власть считала их потенциальными перебежчиками из-за ложных доносов. Юрий Юдин много раз разговорил в интервью о ложных доносах, которые писал на ребят профком УПИ.

Yes, I'm already shouting at the top of my voice that the tourists were not going to run anywhere. But the authorities considered them potential defectors because of false denunciations. Yuri Yudin spoke many times in interviews about false denunciations that the UPI trade union committee filed against Dyatlov and his friends.
in the screenshot of Yudin's interview and his words: the compromising material was collected by the trade union committee of our institute... That we are spies and want to escape to the west...

[Missi]

But how could anyone believe they wanted to flee to the west, when their goal was to reach Mount Otorten in the middle of the USSR? That does not make sense. It's completely illogical. False denunciation is one thing, but how could anyone believe that this hike was to defect to the west?

[GlennM]

Sticks and stones may break their bones, but words will never hurt them.

[anna_pycckux]

But how could anyone believe they wanted to flee to the west, when their goal was to reach Mount Otorten in the middle of the USSR? That does not make sense. It's completely illogical. False denunciation is one thing, but how could anyone believe that this hike was to defect to the west?

Из-за ложных доносов в мире погибло много народу. Из-за ложного доноса был распят Иисус Христос. Как можно было верить ложным доносам??

Много людей погибло в мире из-за ложных доносов. Из-за ложного доноса Иисус Христос был распят. Почему кто-то верит ложным доносам??

[amashilu]

But how could anyone believe they wanted to flee to the west, when their goal was to reach Mount Otorten in the middle of the USSR? That does not make sense. It's completely illogical. False denunciation is one thing, but how could anyone believe that this hike was to defect to the west?

Из-за ложных доносов в мире погибло много народу. Из-за ложного доноса был распят Иисус Христос. Как можно было верить ложным доносам??

Много людей погибло в мире из-за ложных доносов. Из-за ложного доноса Иисус Христос был распят. Почему кто-то верит ложным доносам??

Anna, please translate this into English and re-post it.