What was the unknown compelling force of the Dyatlov Pass?

[Manti]

 

[Ziljoe]

A good question that should be asked.👍

[Ziljoe]

I need more than two options 

[Manti]

Can't edit max votes per user sorry

[eurocentric]

Unknown Compelling Force always sounded so cryptic, like it was a clue in itself to what actually happened, a coded message.

I chose poisoning, and also something which may be "the unspeakable truth" - conflict within the group (more specifically a factional mutiny at the tent and later on, after the failure of a fire, competition for what became the only survivor resource, the den).

[anna_pycckux]

Неодолимая сила - о которой говорил следователь Иванов - это государственные органы!!
Цитата из статьи Льва Иванова в 1990 году: В свое время я пытался сделать все, что мог, но в стране была в то время неодолимая сила, победить ее стало возможно только теперь.

The irresistible force - of which Investigator Ivanov spoke - is the state bodies!!
Quote from an article by Lev Ivanov in 1990: "At one time I tried to do everything I could, but there was an irresistible force in the country at that time, it became possible to defeat it only now."
the screenshot is an article by Ivanov with this quote.

[Ziljoe]

Fair enough. Done.. a good thing to do. The more forum members the better .

[anna_pycckux]

Lev Ivanov wrote the article only as an excuse to apologize to the parents of the victims.
Quote from Ivanov's article:
"Kirilenko gave a clear command to classify all the work, not a single word of information should have leaked. Kirilenko ordered to bury the dead in closed coffins and inform relatives that the tourists died of hypothermia"

Ivanov, quote: ONE OF THE EXCUSES I HAD WAS NOT FULFILLING MY WILL. "I tried to do everything I could, but then there was an irresistible force in the country"

[Ziljoe]

Lev Ivanov wrote the article only as an excuse to apologize to the parents of the victims.
Quote from Ivanov's article:
"Kirilenko gave a clear command to classify all the work, not a single word of information should have leaked. Kirilenko ordered to bury the dead in closed coffins and inform relatives that the tourists died of hypothermia"

Ivanov, quote: ONE OF THE EXCUSES I HAD WAS NOT FULFILLING MY WILL. "I tried to do everything I could, but then there was an irresistible force in the country"

Anna, just post your vote 👍 .

[Manti]

Unknown Compelling Force always sounded so cryptic, like it was a clue in itself to what actually happened, a coded message.

I chose poisoning, and also something which may be "the unspeakable truth" - conflict within the group (more specifically a factional mutiny at the tent and later on, after the failure of a fire, competition for what became the only survivor resource, the den).

I am partial to another "unspeakable truth" myself: that they were simply underequipped. Torn tent, no sleeping bags, coats that look like they're made for the autumn, not the winter. They try to hang in there but the combination of no stove and the windier conditions result in some of them getting frostbite in the tent. Or perhaps even before that, and the tent was set up there because someone in the group couldn't continue...

[eurocentric]

Unknown Compelling Force always sounded so cryptic, like it was a clue in itself to what actually happened, a coded message.

I chose poisoning, and also something which may be "the unspeakable truth" - conflict within the group (more specifically a factional mutiny at the tent and later on, after the failure of a fire, competition for what became the only survivor resource, the den).

I am partial to another "unspeakable truth" myself: that they were simply underequipped. Torn tent, no sleeping bags, coats that look like they're made for the autumn, not the winter. They try to hang in there but the combination of no stove and the windier conditions result in some of them getting frostbite in the tent. Or perhaps even before that, and the tent was set up there because someone in the group couldn't continue...

Yes, that too, fellow hiking leader and rescuer Sogrin, who knew Igor well, was remarkably scathing, openly critical of the uni equipment:

"About the equipment. the provision of the equipment was as for any other hiking group. And the equipment is disgusting. If they had better gear, good jackets, maybe they wouldn't freeze, and could have gone back to the tent. If we take our institute, other sections are not any better, then it is clear that tourism is viewed as a splurging - go, well, let them go - but how they go, and most importantly, in what they go we are not interested in. Tents are 4-5 years old. There are no decent clothes that protect from the wind and cold. There is no skis for hiking. The so-called hiking skis of Kirov Wood processing plant (Кировский Дерево Обрабатывающий Комбинат - ed. note) is issuing do not meet the sports requirements. They should be light skis, wide with metal edging.

In the current situation there is real chance that more people are lost. In addition, when releasing equipment, for some reason, they absolutely do not care about reducing its weight. A heavy backpack is a big burden for hikers. It is often difficult to get the right high-calorie and light concentrates.

Now about the rescue service. It seems to me that in each district it is necessary to create rescue squad with an inviolable fund of equipment, food, radio stations. Such rescue squads need to have for their use a plane, or a helicopter. All groups going to the area must notify the rescue squad and obtain permission from them."

https://dyatlovpass.com/case-files-330-339

[GlennM]

The UCF  had certain characteristics. Based on the remains of the three hikers who perished between the tent and the woods, we can safely deduce the tent was on 1979, just where it was found. The force did not conceal the tent, nor the corpses. The force did not eat the provisions in the tent. The force did not rummage the interior of the tent. The force did not leave with clothing and footwear not accounted for. It left no prints in the snow, unlike those of the hikers.  The force did no lasting damage to the foliage below the tent. The force had no interest, nor effect onn the labaz. The UCF, had no discernable negative impact on the search parties. No political or terrorist organization took credit for being the UCF. Neither was there a discernable trail of homicides and thefts reported leading to or away from 1079. The UCF was sufficiently  potent and/ or mysterious to have 1079 and vicinity off limits for two hiking seasons. The Manti did not have a name for the UCF to share with investigators.  There is one plausible explanation for the UCF. It is the Russian Winter. The reason it was fatal is because the nine people who chose to face the elements were not physically prepared in terms of group solidarity. They had inferior and improvised equipment, and they were trying to make do on shoestring budget. Nature is indifferent to all of it.

[tenne]

" The tent was stretched out on skis and poles, hammered into the snow, its entrance facing the south side and on that side extensions were intact, and the north side stretching was disrupted and therefore the entire second half of the tent was covered with snow. The snow was not much, only drifted by the blizzards in the period of February."

https://dyatlovpass.com/case-files-62-75?rbid=17743

what ever the force was, it also didn't blow down the tent and the only snow on it was drifted by the blizzards so it wasn't that strong

[Ziljoe]

I would read that differently. He is talking about the month of February ,not the evening of the whatever took place. It is frustrating that we don't have a photo of the tent untouched .

If the snow was not much in the month of February , then it would suggest that the ravine 4 were in cave for that amount of snow to be on top of them?

[tenne]

I would read that differently. He is talking about the month of February ,not the evening of the whatever took place. It is frustrating that we don't have a photo of the tent untouched .

If the snow was not much in the month of February , then it would suggest that the ravine 4 were in cave for that amount of snow to be on top of them?

You are right, it could be read that way. I didn't see it until you pointed it out.

The idea that they were in a cave is certainly talked about but still no one has mentioned how they would be able to dig out snow that was hard packed enough to make a cave out of, not being dressed and no real tools with them.

 there are reports of a knife being found and then only a knife sheath found and one known knife wasn't returned to I don't know what they had but hard packed snow is hard to cut a shelter out of.

making snow caves is a popular thing here to the point where when the snow plows are going to take down banks, they issue a warning so people aren't in the caves when the plow hits

[ilahiyol]

I would read that differently. He is talking about the month of February ,not the evening of the whatever took place. It is frustrating that we don't have a photo of the tent untouched .

If the snow was not much in the month of February , then it would suggest that the ravine 4 were in cave for that amount of snow to be on top of them?

You are right, it could be read that way. I didn't see it until you pointed it out.

The idea that they were in a cave is certainly talked about but still no one has mentioned how they would be able to dig out snow that was hard packed enough to make a cave out of, not being dressed and no real tools with them.

 there are reports of a knife being found and then only a knife sheath found and one known knife wasn't returned to I don't know what they had but hard packed snow is hard to cut a shelter out of.

making snow caves is a popular thing here to the point where when the snow plows are going to take down banks, they issue a warning so people aren't in the caves when the plow hits

In my opinion, they made a group plan on the sofa. The two Yuri were to watch the tree. And they climbed the tree and saw nothing on the slope. And Igor decided to go back to the tent. He took only Rüstem and Zina with him. The other four would keep the fire going. And they must have kept the fire going!!! Everything was going well. But the unknown Force must have attacked Igor first!!! Then Rustam and Zina.....The two Yuri in the tree saw this!!! And warned the four. The four immediately wanted to dig a cave in the snow and hide there. The two Yuri chose to stay in the tree. The unknown Force first attacked the Two Yuri and knocked them from the tree. And they died slowly by the hard blow of the fall. Then the unknown Force attacked the quartet trying to hide in the cave!!! I guess at the time of the attack, these four were in the process of entering the cave!!! They were attacked just as they entered!!!The fact that they are so close to each other shows this. Ludmina's separation for a while also indicates that she is trying to escape. But the attacker must be very fast...Because he didn't get far!!!

[tenne]

What you posted makes sense except why would anyone light a fire that would give their position if they were worried about being found?

[ilahiyol]

What you posted makes sense except why would anyone light a fire that would give their position if they were worried about being found?

At first they didn't think they could die. Because the unknown Force had driven them out of the tent but did not harm them. so they hoped they would live. So they lit the fire and needed warmth. But when the two Yuri in the tree realized the unknown power, they realized that the danger was great and they could die. But they also knew that they could not escape. Because the unknown Force was both fast and powerful and flying. Two Yuri chose to stay in the tree, while the other four considered digging a cave and going inside. Because they had nothing else to do.

[Per Inge Oestmoen]

The Soviet security forces were the force which could not be resisted.

[anna_pycckux]

The Soviet security forces were the force which could not be resisted.

above the security forces - there were party organs. They gave instructions. The KGB was the executor of the will of the party.

[Alaya]

I would opt for a teargas (CN or CS), that is not on the list. Which made it unbearable to stay inside the tent. Then outside something/someone else was waiting for them.

[Jean Daniel Reuss]

Bravo Alaya ! You are in agreement with my theory - which I call for simplicity the TOK theory in reference to :
• Eduard Tumanov   (fatal altercation on the pass against outsiders) ;
• Per Inge Oestmoen (the nine were murdered, but my total disagreement about the rest) ;
• Aleks Kandr (http://mystery12home.ru/t-ub-gr-dyatlova).

I would opt for a teargas (CN or CS), that is not on the list. Which made it unbearable to stay inside the tent................

" They launched a kind of dope inside "

Naive but accurate expression by Anatoliy Stepochkin)
More scientifically, there are dozens of easily available gases that can make the air inside the tent unbreathable and suffocating.

....................................... Then outside something/someone else was waiting for them.

Outside there were 3 contract killers(hitmen) equipped only with big sticks (blunt objects), but determined not to leave any survivor.

These 3 hitmen were paid (hired) by a sponsor (commdander, client...) = a notable Stalinist who had belonged to the NKVD and (therefore) opposed to Khrushchev's de-stalinization policy.

For the sponsor the suspect could be : A. Kirilenko (1906-1990) according to anna_pycckux or Ivan Prodanov (1906-1964) according to Charles....

The KGB made a complete fool of itself by proving to be incapable of protecting the lives of 9 irreproachable Soviet citizens ;
which explains the subsequent cover-up.

[Alaya]

I also agree with you, after turning the whole story upside down, the only logical explanation has to be rational.

What made them leave their tent wasn't on the outside, it's something inside the tent that was dangerous, scary or unbearable.
Since nobody else was in the tent (killer, animal, etc.) and no dangerous fire was detected (no damage to the tent), something painful made them rush outside without being able to exit from the main entrance as it took too much time (old school buttons).

The tear gas (or something similar) could have been silently introduced through the hole of the suspended stove for example.

Outside the tent they still couldn't understand what was happening due to their burning eyes, blurred vision and choking. Maybe some snow helped relieve the pain and swelling. Once outside in their pajamas, it was too late. No way to get back inside to get properly dressed.

[amashilu]

Jean-Daniel writes:
For the sponsor the suspect could be : A. Kirilenko (1906-1990) according to anna_pycckux or Ivan Prodanov (1906-1964) according to Charles....

Another member who has done years of research on this mystery believes it was Captain Chernyshev who led the killers. He was also one of the searchers.

[Alaya]

Jean-Daniel Reuss wrote:
Outside there were 3 contract killers(hitmen) equipped only with big sticks (blunt objects), but determined not to leave any survivor.

Maybe they were 4? For strategical reasons, 3 against 9 is maybe too little, and if for any reason they needed to separate (which they probably did), it would be smarter to always have a partner.

As for the footprints outside the tent, I believe they were left afterwards by the 'killers'. A total set up.
After 3 weeks of snow and wind and seeing the 3 bodies buried under the snow on the slope, the footprints would have been covered as well.

[Jean Daniel Reuss]

.........................................................
Another member who has done years of research on this mystery believes it was Captain Chernyshev who led the killers. He was also one of the searchers.

• Indeed anna_pycckux has written  : 
Captain Chernyshov – was one of the liquidators??
Chernyshov was a resident of Vyatka Krai, Verkhoshizhemskiy district.
Screenshot from the VK site "My Verkhoshizhemsky district"

«  A resident of the Verkhoshizhemsky district is suspected of murdering a group of Dyatlov.
Quote: ".. Chernyshov was appointed deputy chief of searches – Maslennikov, and after his departure headed the search headquarters…
According to researcher-activist Alexander Kasa, it was Chernyshov's group that participated in the mass murder....
Chernyshov's group is a special group of the Ivdellag, which was engaged in special operations to search for and detain fugitives...»
Re: State order for liquidation. Anna Russian's version.(c)    >>        March 05, 2023, 09:24:54 AM -   Reply #184
https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=1196.msg22713#msg22713

Who is exactly  Alexander Kasa  ???

•   But on "Who is Who People ›››"    I read :
  https://dyatlovpass.com/whois?flp=1#letter3      
                       Captain Aleksey Chernyshev
"........He used to be a sportsman , organizer, participant and judge of numerous shooting and skiing competitions in Ivdel. Had 1st referee category in skiing, athletics and shooting..........."

• Therefore I think that Chernyshev could not have been the commander or sponsor of the massacre of the nine hikers.
But it is not unlikely that he could have been one of the three hitmen............

[amashilu]

Yes, I agree. One thing I've noticed -- and I think others have also -- is that the hikers appeared to die in groups, characterized by the same "kind" of killings, as if there were three attackers and each one had his own methods. I believe Aleks Kandr also noted this.

[Alaya]

The killers seemed to use increasingly violent methods in their attempts to eliminate the nine hikers.
For some reason, the group was separated into three smaller groups and each member was killed one after the other. Since the cold weather did not succeed in killing them, the murderers resorted to using more extreme measures. The better dressed and warmer the groups were, the more difficult they became to kill, leading the killers to escalate their methods exponentially.

[anna_pycckux]

• Therefore I think that Chernyshev could not have been the commander or sponsor of the massacre of the nine hikers.
But it is not unlikely that he could have been one of the three hitmen............

Согласна! Чернышов хорошо знал местность, был спортивным и служил в ГУЛАГе.
Он действительно мог быть исполнителем воли властей.
Я не согласна с  ракетной версией А. Каса, но согласна с тем, что ликвидаторами были назначены ВОХР под руководством Чернышова.
I agree! Chernyshov knew the area well, was athletic and served in the Gulag.
He really could be the executor of the will of the authorities.
I do not agree with the rocket version of Alexander Kas, but I agree that the liquidators were appointed VOHR under the leadership of Chernyshov.