what happened at the cedar

[WinterLeia]

The reason why I believe that entire group minus the two Yuris worked on the snow den instead of three of them heading towards the tent is because the three that headed for the tent would have had to have been at the end of their endurance not to have reached it. Meaning, they were away from their tent for a good while; maybe an hour, if not more. So what were they doing all that time? Watching the others build the snow den while the two Yuris froze to death beside them? Plus, regardless of any argument that Semyon and Igor might have had about it, I don’t think Zina would have left Luda unless she thought the best hope her friend had for survival was for her to leave her and return to the tent. And I don’t think Luda would have chosen to go with the group she did if they had split up. She would have stayed with Zina, and she didn’t even like Kolevatov.

[Ziljoe]

The reason why I believe that entire group minus the two Yuris worked on the snow den instead of three of them heading towards the tent is because the three that headed for the tent would have had to have been at the end of their endurance not to have reached it. Meaning, they were away from their tent for a good while; maybe an hour, if not more. So what were they doing all that time? Watching the others build the snow den while the two Yuris froze to death beside them? Plus, regardless of any argument that Semyon and Igor might have had about it, I don’t think Zina would have left Luda unless she thought the best hope her friend had for survival was for her to leave her and return to the tent. And I don’t think Luda would have chosen to go with the group she did if they had split up. She would have stayed with Zina, and she didn’t even like Kolevatov.

I feel you have added a reasonable thought process  to events at the ceder.  If I may modify, it is possible that all 9 reached the ceder together, irrelevant of what the trigger was to leaning the tent.

Finding themselves in the situation against the cold they would have to assign tasks to survive. Get wood, build shelter etc. The scenario can play out in a number of ways but I would assume they would give separate tasks. Group 1 , build shelter, group 2 make fire, group 3 collect spruce and fir branches for insulation from the ground.

This is logical and there is evidence of all three things being done. Quite what happens after or during this episode may add to the confusion but the basic premise is there. , Shelter, wood , fire. ( In no particular order) .

[ilahiyol]

The reason why I believe that entire group minus the two Yuris worked on the snow den instead of three of them heading towards the tent is because the three that headed for the tent would have had to have been at the end of their endurance not to have reached it. Meaning, they were away from their tent for a good while; maybe an hour, if not more. So what were they doing all that time? Watching the others build the snow den while the two Yuris froze to death beside them? Plus, regardless of any argument that Semyon and Igor might have had about it, I don’t think Zina would have left Luda unless she thought the best hope her friend had for survival was for her to leave her and return to the tent. And I don’t think Luda would have chosen to go with the group she did if they had split up. She would have stayed with Zina, and she didn’t even like Kolevatov.

In life and death situations, it is possible for two women to separate from each other. And 3 people returning to the tent have certain features that distinguish them from the other 6 people. 1. Their main characteristics are being brave 2. Being sane and intelligent 3. Being physically stronger and resilient 4. Being a leader 5. Having a fighting and warrior spirit.... This trio group had superior qualities than the others. And while the others were hiding and trying to warm themselves in the fire, they dared to return to the tent. Zina left Lumina. And I don't believe the group built a big snow cave. They didn't have time for that, but they could have built a small cave. Of course, they must have done this not with their hands, but with the tree branches they collected from the environment.

[ilahiyol]

The reason why I believe that entire group minus the two Yuris worked on the snow den instead of three of them heading towards the tent is because the three that headed for the tent would have had to have been at the end of their endurance not to have reached it. Meaning, they were away from their tent for a good while; maybe an hour, if not more. So what were they doing all that time? Watching the others build the snow den while the two Yuris froze to death beside them? Plus, regardless of any argument that Semyon and Igor might have had about it, I don’t think Zina would have left Luda unless she thought the best hope her friend had for survival was for her to leave her and return to the tent. And I don’t think Luda would have chosen to go with the group she did if they had split up. She would have stayed with Zina, and she didn’t even like Kolevatov.

I feel you have added a reasonable thought process  to events at the ceder.  If I may modify, it is possible that all 9 reached the ceder together, irrelevant of what the trigger was to leaning the tent.

Finding themselves in the situation against the cold they would have to assign tasks to survive. Get wood, build shelter etc. The scenario can play out in a number of ways but I would assume they would give separate tasks. Group 1 , build shelter, group 2 make fire, group 3 collect spruce and fir branches for insulation from the ground.

This is logical and there is evidence of all three things being done. Quite what happens after or during this episode may add to the confusion but the basic premise is there. , Shelter, wood , fire. ( In no particular order) .

Yes, fire shelter and return to the tent....These three definitely happened. First the fire, then the shelter, then the return to the tent......But the unknown Force returned and killed them all one by one. May God protect them, forgive them and put them in Heaven...

[tenne]

The cedar tree was being used a central hub to stockpile tree clippings and clothing to make the snow den. Or, at least, that was the impression that the first searchers at the scene got.

But, the first searchers on the scene didn't know about the den.  The search party wouldn't dig up the den until May.

That is what was being said on the russian forum, that going back and forth would make a path and it would be found much sooner.

[tenne]

if they had the ability to move between the cedar and the den and collect up branches, then I don't understand why they didn't just build a tree blind at the cedar by weaving the branches together to stop the wind? much less effort, much less sweating and the wind would be blocked. As experienced outdoors people they should have released that

[Ziljoe]

I would think a snow hole would keep you warmer over night.

[tenne]

yes and no, the wind blind would have a fire there so it would be much warmer than a cave without a fire and no evidence of a fire has been found in the den.

plus the cost benefit payout for a wind blind is much higher as there is much less physical effort, so less sweating and contact with the snow, plus it could be done in the warmth of the fire.

cedar branches are very bendy and the needles are flat and would help stop the wind

if the photo of the den is accurate, they were out in the wind walking there and making it while not in as much wind and a fire at the cedar

If it was me, a wind blind would be made, keeping the fire going is the main priority has been drilled into me and leaving it makes zero sense

[WinterLeia]

The reason why I believe that entire group minus the two Yuris worked on the snow den instead of three of them heading towards the tent is because the three that headed for the tent would have had to have been at the end of their endurance not to have reached it. Meaning, they were away from their tent for a good while; maybe an hour, if not more. So what were they doing all that time? Watching the others build the snow den while the two Yuris froze to death beside them? Plus, regardless of any argument that Semyon and Igor might have had about it, I don’t think Zina would have left Luda unless she thought the best hope her friend had for survival was for her to leave her and return to the tent. And I don’t think Luda would have chosen to go with the group she did if they had split up. She would have stayed with Zina, and she didn’t even like Kolevatov.

In life and death situations, it is possible for two women to separate from each other. And 3 people returning to the tent have certain features that distinguish them from the other 6 people. 1. Their main characteristics are being brave 2. Being sane and intelligent 3. Being physically stronger and resilient 4. Being a leader 5. Having a fighting and warrior spirit.... This trio group had superior qualities than the others. And while the others were hiding and trying to warm themselves in the fire, they dared to return to the tent. Zina left Lumina. And I don't believe the group built a big snow cave. They didn't have time for that, but they could have built a small cave. Of course, they must have done this not with their hands, but with the tree branches they collected from the environment.

I didn’t say it wasn’t possible. I only said I don’t think it happened, especially in the context of a disagreement resulting in a rift in the group. And that was not even the main reason why I do not believe the group split up, except for the two Yuris, who I believe stayed with the fire because Dyatlov told them that. Rather, it’s the time element. And I don’t think they built a big old snow den. But they might have meant to, considering the tree clippings and discarded clothing, which weren’t used.

I should probably state that in my scenario, Luda isn’t injured at the tent, and therefore, likely neither is Semyon because the medical examiner felt that whatever caused their injuries was the same thing. And the reason I don’t believe that Luda was injured at the tent is because the medical examiner only gave her twenty minutes to live. And the snow den would have taken a lot longer to build than that. So, why carry a corpse to the snow den, or at least attempt to? If they were injured in some way while constructing the snow den, though, then that would have definitely changed Igor’s plans. It would not have been just a fight against the cold anymore. So the den was going to be of minimal use to them. But they still needed a place to put the injured, and I don’t even think they got them to the den, because they weren’t found in the den. Probably their uninjured companions just didn’t have the strength to carry them the last few feet to the den. So Igor left Kolevatov with them and just told him to do what he could for them.

If they’re were injured at the tent, however, and they just didn’t realize that Luda had died or they were really speedy at making a snow den, then Igor, Rustem, and Zina would have most definitely had to take part in building the snow den. And they would have probably have done that to put the injured in it while they went back to the tent.

And if they were carrying out different tasks, I don’t think that it was because of a disagreement between the hikers. It fits the scenario more and their status as professional skiers that in survival mode they would have worked together and been assigned tasks by Igor. The snow den could have even been a compromise between Igor and Zolotaryov. The way some people talk about their relationship, it sounds more like a soap opera, and I’ve never even seen that much evidence that Igor and Semyon were that much on the outs with each other. But it does make sense to me that the snow den was Semyon’s idea.

[WinterLeia]

The cedar tree was being used a central hub to stockpile tree clippings and clothing to make the snow den. Or, at least, that was the impression that the first searchers at the scene got.

But, the first searchers on the scene didn't know about the den.  The search party wouldn't dig up the den until May.

That is what was being said on the russian forum, that going back and forth would make a path and it would be found much sooner.

They didn’t find the snow den in February because their probes were too short. But they did search the area the snow den was in, because well, they didn’t call it a path, but they did see some tree clippings and parts of clothing that looked kind of weird and out of place. If you’re talking about footprints or a trail in the snow, though, it’s kind of hard to believe that would have not been filled in by snow in the three weeks that the bodies were there.

And you also have to take into account that some of the searchers reported that no one was really interested in finding the other missing hikers in February and the attempts were cursory at best. I don’t even think an attempt was even made to get longer probes in the three months until the spring thaw. They could have found them a lot sooner, if they just did that.

[Manti]

I keep hearing this but it makes no sense. How can tree clippings and clothing be on top of the snow but the den under metres of snow?

[Ziljoe]

The clothes and tree stumpss towards the den were covered and even at the ceder. They searched the ceder area and found some items, the snow was not deep, we must remember the ceder its self is cover from snow fall, I would guess, snow must blow through the area at the ceder also or it is well covered by the fir branches.

The den and the ravine are mostly exposed and have little tree protection allowing snow to gather in the creeks and ridges. The snow stays there until it melts. This snow would gather in these ravines from the beginning of the snow season.

As the snow melted towards May,  the trails around the ceder were seen to make a path towards the den and ravine, it was the thawing of snow that exposed twigs and clues to activity towards the den.  They had been searching on the slope for the bodies with probes that we're reaching the ground.

They were systematically going through the area but it took time. On probing around the den after seeing the evidence of the trail that was exposed by the thaw they  requested longer poles, this is when they probed some flesh . They were going to search there eventually and I believe they dammed the stream to be able to excavate safely.

There is suggestion that the clothes weren't found exactly as they were in the photo of the den. Theres clothes at the ceder, away from the ceder and around or above the den area.  The clippings and twigs would be what caught the Mansi eyes, this would show activity unusual to that of nature.

[ilahiyol]

It is very interesting that two Yuri's changed places after death in Cedar(?!?!). 2. Mansi did it. 3. Unknown compelling Force made!!! Who did it??? I think the Unknown Force dropped them from the tree and they fell into the fire and died. And the Mansi later found them on the fire and pulled them out from there and placed them aside... And they also took out the clothes that were burning from the fire. And then they saw the tent. And they went to the tent and did some research, and they left the lantern there and went. Another option is Unknown Power. The unknown Power didn't want them to suffer any more in the fire and pulled them aside. The last option is definitely not teenagers. Because if the young people saw them falling from the tree and heard their screams, they would run away to the forest!!! They wouldn't dig a snow cave and hide there.