Were the camera pictures staged?

[Loose}{Cannon]

OK....

I'm going to come right out and say it....   few of the pictures of the victims as found on "their" films actually look like the same people of knows photos prior to the expedition.   


Lets take Zina first.....  This first pic is sometime prior to the trip. At the most 2 to 3 years.






And this Picture was from early in the trip,... right...





And here she is deceased....






All fine and well, all three I would definitely say are of the same person.

But who the heck is this?   Dont get me wrong, I have seen all these pics a million times, but these next few just dont look like her AT ALL. 

[Loose}{Cannon]

And how would you explain this?   

SEMYON ZOLOTARYOV has ALWAYS had a mustache right.....























Sooooo......   where the hell is this mustache !?       






Another issue to point out.  The last two shown as found and at the morgue are vastly different.

Wide plump nose VS skinny narrow and shriveled nose
Prominent cheek bones VS flat
Upper teeth exposed VS lower teeth exposed

U understand things will change after thaw, but c'mon man!   
 

[CalzagheChick]

You know, one thing that doesn't sit right with me is that I've read Zinaida's autopsy report thoroughly and carefully. The first discrepancy I noted in my handy dandy notebook is: the autopsy report states her hair is dark blonde, two braids, red ribbon. Two braids, red ribbon is clear in the photos. Dark blonde? She's always looked like a dark brunette to me. I thought maybe I just wanted to interpret black and white photos wrong. But I no longer think so. And it's not because the colorized photos have biased my reasoning.

Lyudmila was a dark blonde. Zinaida? No way.

And that's an official document by the government funded inquest. Very, very suspect.

[Loose}{Cannon]

You know, one thing that doesn't sit right with me is that I've read Zinaida's autopsy report thoroughly and carefully. The first discrepancy I noted in my handy dandy notebook is: the autopsy report states her hair is dark blonde, two braids, red ribbon. Two braids, red ribbon is clear in the photos. Dark blonde? She's always looked like a dark brunette to me. I thought maybe I just wanted to interpret black and white photos wrong. But I no longer think so. And it's not because the colorized photos have biased my reasoning.

Lyudmila was a dark blonde. Zinaida? No way.

And that's an official document by the government funded inquest. Very, very suspect.

I totally agree!!!

[CalzagheChick]

Begs the questions:

Does that rumor hold water about the changes to the hair color/skin?

Was the doctor performing the autopsy completely incompetent in a time where the Russian government wasn't known to show any form of weakness or lack of aptitude?

What's going on here? How can we trust anything in that autopsy report if basic hair color is inconsistent with any of the evidence?

Things to think about.

[Loose}{Cannon]

Still looks dark to me.   

[SteveCalley]

There were hair colors at the time.  That does not explain here.

[CalzagheChick]

@Loose Cannon:

I totally see what you're saying about the mustache. I am unsure if facial hair disappears with the normal decay of a human body. I mean, medical science is my expertise area, but the study of necrotic human anatomy and physiology is not included in my brain full of random, mostly useless, factoids and trivia.

One thing that stands out to me when comparing the photos of Zolotaryov in life and then death (I admit somehow your photo of his body as it was pulled from the scene has somehow escaped all of my previous research! I don't know why your photos of his body seem so new to me, as though I'd never seen his autopsy photos before) is his forehead. He had a very prominent frontal bone as far as his cranial bones are concerned. It's got such a unique characteristic about it's overall shape and I see it clearly in his facial identity in photos of his life as well as the autopsy photo of a decayed human remains--all the way to the very recent exhumation!

My conclusion? Dude had a 5-head, not a forehead. I bet at night he had movies not dreams/nightmares. (My attempt at humor with a movie reference to All About The Benjamins.) To my naked eye, well with my seeing spectacles on anyway, his cranium is a match through and through.

As for the rest of the remains? I think there's some strong evidence that things are exactly adding up just right... definitely needs to be examined. I'm really thankful that this exhumation happened. I truly hope that the study will add some new light to a stone cold case, but most importantly I'm more than grateful that his resting place is going to be redesigned with a new monument and his family will be paying new respects to his grave (or hopefully that's his grave otherwise where the HELL is this poor soul's body and how in the HELL can we respect  his earthly resting place if we don't know where he is? Good grief this incident is a flipping travesty!!!! Does anybody respect the deceased?!)

[SteveCalley]

Stalin ruined the fashion.   

[Loose}{Cannon]

But yet all the hair on top the heads of all victims remain. 

Interesting

[SteveCalley]

But yet all the hair on top the heads of all victims remain.

Perhaps death from hypothermia with freezing within minutes arrests slough. Good taphonomy question.

[CalzagheChick]

But yet all the hair on top the heads of all victims remain. 

Interesting

I am pretty effin' phenomenal at understanding human anatomy & physiology. So I'm attaching a photo of a cross section of the skin so we can study a little of the histology. The epidermis is my main focus. All skin has the stratum basale (base layer), stratum spinosum, stratum granulosum, and the stratum corneum--each layer is a different structure of cell as you can see the basale is rather columnar then the layers get cuboidal ending with squamous (flattened and scale-like) epithelial tissue. The layer that's special is the stratum lucidum. This layer is only found in the thicker skin of the palms and feet.

I don't know about you, but I can definitely tell there's a difference in the thickness of my palm/bottom foot skin than the rest of my body. Pretty cool that that one single layer is responsible for such a profound difference right?

Anyway so I was thinking that maybe histology is where the answer to this conundrum can be found. Obviously there are extreme differences in the anatomy in any given area. I know there's a difference between the hair on my head compared to my eyebrow lashes, eyebrow hairs, pubic hairs, axillary hairs, and my dad's mustache hairs. Perhaps there is just one slight anatomical difference that changes the game when rigor sets in?

[SteveCalley]

The epidermis has the start on post mortem changes - the SC and SL already are dead!

  Sy O'Nara

[CalzagheChick]

The epidermis has the start on post mortem changes - the SC and SL already are dead!  The epidermis-dermis area autolyses and sloughs (like Nikolsky phenomenon in pemphigus.) That takes several hrs.

My point being that one layer the thickness of about 2 squamous cells produces a difference as profound as thin and thick skin... so if there's an obvious difference between the hairs on my head as opposed to the hairs in my arm pits, perhaps there's a deeper anatomical structure to consider, affected by the process of death & putrefaction. Something that may cause the sloughing of facial hair as opposed to the hair on the head?

I wouldn't know, I'm not an expert on the processes taking place when rigor takes over. I'm just saying it's worth researching. The fact that there's no mustache on that body is pretty darn HUGE... and I've never seen that even brought up before. Why has nobody ever mentioned the fact that there's no mustache on the decayed body? I mean what are the odds that he shaved it off that night after the final pictures of them in life were taken?

[Loose}{Cannon]

And the hole in his chin as seen in the recent jaw bone pics.....   There is no hole in his chin tissue as seen when found.  Must have been a deformation from birth OR some type of wound from much earlier that healed.

[SteveCalley]

And the hole in his chin as seen in the recent jaw bone pics.....

Is the normal foramen of the mental nerve innervating the lower lip. We all have it.

[SteveCalley]

The epidermis has the start on post mortem changes - the SC and SL already are dead!  The epidermis-dermis area autolyses and sloughs (like Nikolsky phenomenon in pemphigus.) That takes several hrs.

My point being that one layer the thickness of about 2 squamous cells produces a difference as profound as thin and thick skin... so if there's an obvious difference between the hairs on my head as opposed to the hairs in my arm pits, perhaps there's a deeper anatomical structure to consider, affected by the process of death & putrefaction. Something that may cause the sloughing of facial hair as opposed to the hair on the head.

I'm not too mystified. Hair lasts long time in decay timeline. The follicles die and lose grip on hair roots. The difference is whether something wiped along the surface. That can destroy moustache or desquamate epidermis. Glabrous skin, SL, all fascinating yes.

[Loose}{Cannon]

All men should be well aware of how deeply rooted facial hair is compared to the top of head.  Its not physics.....  Its genetics.     

[cz]

All men should be well aware of how deeply rooted facial hair is compared to the top of head.  Its not physics.....  Its genetics.     

Absolutely!

I also cannot identify any mustache in the image. I find it hard, however, given the quality.
The autopsy report mentions something at least:
"On the upper lip on the right are the remains of preserved chestnut mustache, lips are pale gray."

According to the report, the skin on the skull was not in the best shape
"The existing hair cover slides when touching, the remnants of the black hair are up to 10 cm in length."

But then, depends on what one thinks of these reports...

[Loose}{Cannon]

We may soon know just how accurate the report was after the bones are looked at. 

[CalzagheChick]

I read that last comment now and I laugh maniacally.... If only we knew what was to come of it all.