Who should be shunned.

[anna_pycckux]

I want to inform the entire research community.:
if something happens to bloggers S. Sogrin, Sasha Veter, Elena Dmitrievskaya, Anna Russian, Ildar Garifulin, Maxim Yuriev - remember that we were threatened by blogger Pochemuchka. (she is Dyatlovpasslogic, she is Larisa, she is Schelme.. and many more different logins).

[Ziljoe]

 More twists than the KGB?!?!?

She seemed quite polite , I hope you have facts Anna.

[anna_pycckux]

She seemed quite polite , I hope you have facts Anna.

"it's time to put this sharashkin's office on a knife" - for you this is a polite address, but for Russia this is Article 119 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation. The threat of murder or serious harm to health.

[Ziljoe]

I do not know what this means.

"it's time to put this sharashkin's office on a knife".


But it doesn't sound like a threat of murder?

[Ziljoe]

Who or what is sharashkin's office ?.

[Elena Dmitrievska]

Да, я тоже видела эти угрозы на канале Dyatlov Pass Logic, ассоциированный с Почемучкой. Там также были угрозы в адрес других исследователей, в том числе и участников данного форума, например, пользователя Энсон.


Elena, the language of this forum is English. Please post your messages in English.

Meanwhile, your post translates as: 

Yes, I also saw these threats on the Dyatlov Pass Logic channel associated with Why. There were also threats against other researchers, including members of this forum, such as user Anson.

[anna_pycckux]

Да, я тоже видела эти угрозы на канале Dyatlov Pass Logic, ассоциированный с Почемучкой. Там также были угрозы в адрес других исследователей, в том числе и участников данного форума, например, пользователя Энсон.

Lena, pay attention, she also threatens Sergei Sogrin, who is 86 years old. Sergey Sorin is a former participant in the search operation.

[Ziljoe]

If we all had a Pound , Dollar, Ruble , Euro for every time someone said that someone's else's theory was fantasy or should be stopped, we would all be rich.

Opinions are part of the debate and we will all disagree on some of what we present. It is obvious that there is much frustration across all forums.

I'm not sure what woodpecker or armchair investgater means or all this bad blood is. I am no expert , so I guess I'm an armchair person. I have to trust other more informed and experienced forum members. I welcome corrections and there insight, especially if they are reflective but I am cautious when people quote other people.

Perhaps offer an olive branch to those that offend you?

[Почемучка]

...

Perhaps offer an olive branch to those that offend you?

Как всегда вспоминайте мой совет. Просите выставить доказательства.
А так-то - все из страшных рассказов Аннушки Русских - ровно такой же бред как и её версия. А Дмитриевская - как всегда под наркозом...Она легко вспоминает что где-то и что-то видела. Особенно мансей на ветках...

А так-то - у меня один единственный ник. А на ютубе - там вообще паспортные данные.

И ради мансийских богов - не просите Дмитриевскую озвучивать какие угрозы рассылает её партнер по версии Саша Ветер.


As always, remember my advice. Ask for evidence.
And so - everything from the terrible stories of Annushka Russkikh is exactly the same nonsense as her version. And Dmitrievskaya is, as always, impressed... She easily remembers that she saw something somewhere. Especially mansei on the branches...

And so - I have one single nickname. And on YouTube - there are generally passport details.

And for the sake of the Mansi gods, don’t ask Dmitrievskaya to voice what threats her partner according to Sasha Veter is sending her.

[GlennM]

I identify these " ad hominem " attacks as an effort to nullify a particular belief. We must remember that we are not saving lives. This forum is about dead people who, if alive, would be of a grandmotherly age.

 Ultimately we want the objective truth, but we settle for what we believe is the truth.  Beliefs do not need to be truthful, nor logical. A belief is emotional and it provides satisfaction and closure. Challenging a belief elicits a defense fueled by righteous anger and aggression. Beliefs are as much about feelings as they are about facts.

Science is not based on belief. It does not care if you are right or wrong, only that you never lie.  In science there are few laws, but many theories. The beauty in this is that theories are self correcting. They are designed to be challenged. The challenge take the form of an " if,then, else" hypothesis.To make the challenge ( hypothesis) in this way, the person says," If ( something happens), then ( a verifiable consequence is observed), else ( the hypothesis must be invalidated and a new one formulated. Again, it is ok to be wrong, but one must never lie about the answer. With sufficient hypotheses confirmed one,can then make a theory. 

The point to all of this is that theories are evidence based and meant to be disproven. Therefore, challenging somebodies theory is what we do. We would be wise to separate the message from the messenger. It is easier said than done. Some people are good at it.

[Почемучка]

I identify these " ad hominem " attacks as an effort to nullify a pointmof view. We must remember that we are not saving lives.

Проблема далеко не в этом. Просто когда у авторов версий нет аргументов - то у них в ход идут разные и не всегда приличные методы. Если аргументация у версии слабая - автору кажется что все оппоненты на одно лицо. Не смотря на то что и уровень воспитания  сарказма и юмора - очевидно разные у каждого критика. Таким авторам мнится всемирный заговор против их версии.

Причем этот заговор осуществляется единственным по их понятиям человеком. Это проще психологически - видеть не толпу несогласных, а одного несогласного. Короче, тем у кого возникает впечатление - что единственный человек посвящает всю жизнь на то чтобы уничтожить его версию - это повод обращаться к докторам. У версии Анны Русских - на просторах России больше оппонентов чем букв в её книге.

Вы удивитесь - Дмитриевская так же не разделяет эту версию как и "Комсомольская Правда" в лице Варсеговой. Варсегова вообще на суде была на стороне обвинения Анны Русских.
Просто когда хочется отомстить - то тогда работает правило. Враг моего врага - уже друг. На некоторое время. Это называется - дружить против кого-то.

This is far from the problem. It’s just that when the authors of versions do not have arguments, they use different and not always decent methods. If the argumentation of a version is weak, it seems to the author that all opponents are alike. Despite the fact that the level of cultivation of sarcasm and humor is obviously different for each critic. Such authors imagine a worldwide conspiracy against their version.

Moreover, this conspiracy is carried out by the only person according to their concepts. It’s easier psychologically to see not a crowd of dissenters, but one dissenter. In short, for those who have the impression that only one person devotes his whole life to destroying his version, this is a reason to turn to doctors. The Russian version of Anna has more opponents in the vastness of Russia than there are letters in her book.

You will be surprised - Dmitrievskaya does not share this version as well as Komsomolskaya Pravda represented by Varsegova. Varsegova was generally on the side of Anna Russkikh’s prosecution at the trial.
It’s just that when you want to take revenge, then the rule works. The enemy of my enemy is already a friend. For a while. This is called being friends against someone.

[anna_pycckux]

А так-то - все из страшных рассказов Аннушки Русских - ровно такой же бред как и её версия.

1 What are the scary stories?
2. where is the nonsense in my version?
Answer for the words.

[Ziljoe]

Dear Anna,

You post videos with a frequency but few have translation to English. It makes it impossible to even understand your argument.

I appreciate that you have written a book or defended yourself in court. I also appreciate your arguments that it was the state that murdered the hikers.

However, I have not seen proof , you alone have said the marks on the face at funerals are the result of dog bites for example .

No one else claimed such things along with straps on the arms of Dyatlov. I cannot support such speculation without evidence, I have to measure you from what you put forth . Unfortunately it leaves me in doubt to any claims you put forward about the Dyatlov case across many forums.

I would be happy to hear from your supporters?

[anna_pycckux]

А так-то - все из страшных рассказов Аннушки Русских - ровно такой же бред как и её версия.

For the third time, I'm asking for an answer!!
1 What are the scary stories?
2. where is the nonsense in my version?
Answer for the words.
If there's nothing to say, then you should apologize for lying.

[Почемучка]

https://abn.agency/2020/03/03/peterburgskij-sud-postanovil-unichtozhit-knigu-ob-ubijstve-gruppy-dyatlova/

Петербургский суд постановил уничтожить книгу об убийстве группы Дятлова

Суд в Санкт-Петербурге постановил изъять из продажи тираж документальной повести «Уральская Голгофа, или Госзаказ на ликвидацию». Иск к автору и издательству подал сын секретаря ЦК КПСС Андрея Кириленко, которого писатель Анна Охременко, известная под псевдонимом Русских, упомянула в своей версии о спланированной гибели студентов-диссидентов.

Книгу о гибели группы Дятлова писательница представила публике год назад, к 60-летию трагедии. По ее мнению, студенты Уральского политеха якобы стали жертвами доноса, и партийный функционер отдал свердловскому КГБ приказ на их убийство. Дзержинский районный суд Петербурга это предположение сумасшествием не признал, однако решил уничтожить тираж.

A St. Petersburg court ruled to destroy a book about the murder of the Dyatlov group

A court in St. Petersburg decided to withdraw from sale the circulation of the documentary story “The Ural Golgotha, or the State Order for Liquidation.” The lawsuit against the author and the publishing house was filed by the son of the Secretary of the CPSU Central Committee Andrei Kirilenko, whom the writer Anna Okhremenko, known under the pseudonym Russkikh, mentioned in her version of the planned death of dissident students.

The writer presented the book about the death of the Dyatlov group to the public a year ago, on the 60th anniversary of the tragedy. In her opinion, the students of the Ural Polytechnic University allegedly became victims of denunciation, and a party functionary gave the Sverdlovsk KGB an order to kill them. The Dzerzhinsky District Court of St. Petersburg did not recognize this assumption as insanity, but decided to destroy the circulation.

[Почемучка]

Пояснения Натальи Варсеговой
Explanations by Natalia Varsegova
https://taina.li/forum/index.php?topic=11375.msg942269#msg942269

В одном из районных судов Петербурга рассматривается иск от сына Кириленко с требованием опровержения сведений, изложенных в книге Русских, порочащих его отца. На предварительные слушания ответчик не явилась. Насколько я знаю, она не открывает дверь приставам, чтобы те вручили ей повестку в суд. Но о заседаниях ее уведомляли в том числе и по электронной почте. То есть у нее была возможность прийти в суд и доказать правоту своей версии. В октябре будет еще одно заседание. Наверное, итоговое. Может быть, тогда госпожа Охременко соизволит выступить перед судом.
Моя роль в этой истории такова. Русских (Охременко) прислала мне свою книгу с просьбой высказать свое мнение о ней. Я прочла и отписала, что ее книга - клевета и что это подсудное дело. Нельзя так голословно порочить человека. Затем я позвонила сыну Кириленко с просьбой прокомментировать такую версию. Разумеется, он попросил дать ему книгу. Прочитав ее, подал иск в суд. Что вполне логично.

One of the district courts of St. Petersburg is considering a lawsuit from Kirilenko’s son demanding a refutation of the information contained in the book of the Russians, discrediting his father. The defendant did not appear at the preliminary hearing. As far as I know, she does not open the door for the bailiffs to serve her with a subpoena. But she was also notified about the meetings by email. That is, she had the opportunity to come to court and prove the correctness of her version. There will be another meeting in October. Probably the final one. Maybe then Mrs. Okhremenko will deign to speak before the court.

My role in this story is this. Russian (Okhremenko) sent me her book with a request to express my opinion about it. I read and wrote down that her book was libel and that this was a legal matter. You can’t defame a person so unfoundedly. Then I called Kirilenko’s son with a request to comment on this version. Of course, he asked to give him the book. After reading it, he filed a lawsuit. Which is quite logical.

[GlennM]

On this special day, I hear all ten hikers,  Yuden too turning in their graves.

[anna_pycckux]

A St. Petersburg court ruled to destroy a book about the murder of the Dyatlov group
A court in St. Petersburg decided to withdraw from sale the circulation of the documentary story “The Ural Golgotha, or the State Order for Liquidation.”

you are reporting outdated data on the decision of the Dzerzhinsky Court, because the Court of Appeal overturned the decision of the Dzerzhinsky Court, the cassation and the Supreme Court also confirmed my victory. I was able to protect my book and I'm proud of it!

[Почемучка]

Суды высшей инстанции решили что связывать начало прецедента по неиспользовании социальных законов по защите прав пенсионеров в России с вашей фамилией и деятельностью: это сильно обижать Россию и её поколения советских людей. В России много престарелых людей и не стоит их обезличивать именно вашим именем: типа Охремеевщина. Ваши паспортные данные на момент суда - были далеко пенсионного возраста, семейное положение и материальный уровень суд тоже запрашивал. Как и справки от психиатров или нарколога.
Это стандартные действия всех судов всех стран - когда необходимо разобраться в причинах и следствиях. На основании собранных сведений - высшая инстанция и решила как решила. Первая инстанция - определила ваши книги на уничтожение. Им там и место. Иск за клевету был. Его никто не отменил. Суды рассматривали именно - характер клеветы. Нет решения высших инстанций - что иск неправомочен.

The higher courts decided that linking the beginning of the precedent for the non-use of social laws to protect the rights of pensioners in Russia with your name and activities: this would greatly offend Russia and its generations of Soviet people. There are a lot of elderly people in Russia and you shouldn’t depersonalize them with your name: like Okhremeevshchina. At the time of the trial, your passport details were far from retirement age; the court also asked for your marital status and financial level. As well as certificates from psychiatrists or a narcologist.

These are standard actions of all courts of all countries - when it is necessary to understand the causes and consequences. Based on the information collected, the highest authority decided as it did. The first authority has ordered your books to be destroyed. That's where they belong. There was a libel suit. Nobody canceled it. The courts considered precisely the nature of slander. There is no decision from higher authorities that the claim is incompetent.

[anna_pycckux]

There is no decision from higher authorities that the claim is incompetent.

wow!! Pochemuchcka, who does not distinguish the 1st instance from the appellate one, confuses the judicial system with social protectionbegan discussing the actions of the courts. The courts refused to satisfy the claim - and that's enough. According to your ideas, the courts should have sided with Kirilenko's son, because at that time he was much more than 80 years old!

[anna_pycckux]

I stop discussing the topic of a lawsuit based on my book because the opponent knows nothing about jurisprudence. Anyone interested in this topic can visit my YouTube channel or order my book about the trial and hear everything specifically from me, and not from outsiders who cannot be trusted.
With this, I close the topic of my victorious trial.

[Почемучка]

Видимо суд сравнил ваши документы от психиатра и нарколога, а также справки о семейном положении и материальной обеспеченности. И сын А.П.Кириленко - на вашем фоне выглядел гораздо здоровее и материально обеспеченнее. В России жалеют стариков настолько, что смотрят сквозь пальцы на их попытки прорваться во всемирно известные писатели. Тем более что отправлять автора таких странных повествований на излечение - это государству дорого обходится. Ваша пенсия этого не покроет. Вы даже судебные издержки самостоятельно покрыть не можете, ибо это влияет на ваше материальное положение - ниже прожиточного минимума.
Так что победили не вы на суде - а социальная защита пенсионеров в России. Не дали вам - существовать ниже уровня прожиточного минимума из-за штрафа/компенсации и даже судебных издержек. Тем паче вы и так потратили последнее - на издание своей книжонки.

Apparently the court compared your documents from a psychiatrist and a narcologist, as well as certificates of marital status and financial security. And the son of A.P. Kirilenko - against your background, looked much healthier and more financially secure. In Russia, they feel so sorry for old people that they turn a blind eye to their attempts to break into world-famous writers. Moreover, sending the author of such strange stories for treatment costs the state dearly. Your pension won't cover this. You cannot even cover the legal costs on your own, because this affects your financial situation - below the subsistence level.

So it was not you who won in court, but the social protection of pensioners in Russia. They did not allow you to live below the subsistence level due to fines/compensations and even legal costs. Moreover, you already spent the last - on publishing your little book.

[amashilu]

Почемучка

Your repeated references to Anna's age are inappropriate.

Thank you both for calming down.

I am LOCKING this topic.