An Unknown Compelling Force

[gunmat]

"An Unknown Compelling Force" is a documentary directed by Liam Le Guillou, a British-born director. The film was released in 2021 and provides insight into relationships we knew nothing about in 2021. Svetlana Oss appears in the film, and her theory is mentioned. However, I think Guillou maintains a sensible distance from all participants without getting caught up in a single theory or claim. The film is worth watching.

[Teddy]

I agree that the movie is worth watching. But disagree that it is doesn't revolve around a theory.

By the time I become friends with Liam his movie was done, and he didn't have any room to wiggle, but I know for a fact that his whole movie is "Mansi Mansi Mansi" and the start of his movie is the author of a book about the Mansi crazy killers.

When I was in Los Angeles shooting the episode about the Dyatlov Pass incident with History's Greatest Mysteries (HGM) with Laurence Fishburne, the script was based on that same book. This is what they gave me to read from and I refused to do it. I gave them Liam Le Guillou, because he is the "Mansi man", and he accepted to read this. When I asked the producer don't you want to learn somethign about the case, because what you say is not true, she said "We have the script ready, it is based on this book about the Mansi..."

Questions from the script of HGM which I defused to repeat on air. BTW the person who wrote them was fired. Pity for the lost chance to do something good. I was very distraught when I received these questions with the answers they sought to fit their episode based on the same book as Liam Le Guillou's movie is. This is the core of the Mansi theory. Needless to say I do not agree with any of it. They wanted me to give these answers on air, I refused, so they said that my part will be diminished, and I said so be it. I am not going to sell my soul to be in the limelight.

The formatting is form the original document.
====================================
QUESTION 68: What is known about how unhappy the Mansi are about the USSR’s takeover of their land?
And besides, the Mansi are known to be unhappy about the USSR’s takeover of their land.

Lead investigator lev Ivanov starts looking into them.

QUESTION 69: What is Lev Ivanov’s theory about the Mansi in terms of how they felt about a group of outsiders who set up camp on Height 1079, a peak they call “Kholat Syakhl”– which roughly translates to “Dead Mountain” or “Don’t Go There”?
He thinks that the Mansi must have been furious that a group of outsiders set up camp on Height 1079, a peak they call “Kholat Syakhl” – which roughly translates to “Dead Mountain” or “Don’t Go There.”

QUESTION 70: Are the explorers violating territory that’s sacred to the Mansi?
The explorers are violating territory that’s sacred to the Mansi.

QUESTION 71: Is it even more sacrilegious that there are two women in the group?
Even more sacrilegious is the fact there are two women in the group.

QUESTION 72: For the Mansi, are women forbidden from even looking at sacred land, much less stepping foot on it?
And for the Mansi, women are forbidden from even looking at sacred land, much less stepping foot on it.

QUESTION 73: Could this be why the eyes are removed from one of the female corpses?
Maybe that’s why the eyes are removed from some corpses.

Ivanov interrogates multiple tribe members. While they deny involvement, they offer a new detail.

QUESTION 74: Do several people tell the same crazy-sounding story: that the Mansi saw orange-hued “fireballs” or “fast moving burning objects” flying through the sky on the supposed night of the massacre?
Several people tell the same crazy-sounding story: the Mansi saw orange-hued “fireballs” or “fast moving burning objects” flying through the sky on the supposed night of the massacre.

QUESTION 75: Do police recover a camera from the campsite which has a last frame of film they don’t understand?
Police had recovered a camera from the campsite, and the last photo on it, they didn’t understand. 

QUESTION 76: Please describe Krivonischenko’s camera, photo number 34 – the last photo in his camera with strange flares and streaks of light
It looked like strange flares and streaks of light against a pitch-black sky. It’s hard to tell but it could very well corroborate that “burning objects” really did light up the sky that night.

QUESTION 77: Are there any timestamps on the photos? And since there aren’t any, and we deduce it’s the last thing the hikers photographed, can one not help but wonder if it has something to do with their attack?
There are no timestamps on the photos, but if this is the last thing the hikers photographed, you can’t help but wonder if it has something to do with their attack.

But to Ivanov, the fireballs aren’t an alibi.  In fact, he thinks they may have provided a motive.

QUESTION 78: What does Lev Ivanov become convinced of by the time he’s done interviewing the Mansi?
By the time he’s done interviewing the Mansi, Lev Ivanov is convinced that they did see fireballs in the sky…

QUESTION 79: Is he convinced they did see fireballs in the sky… and that they interpreted them as signs from spirits above to fight back against the USSR and kill these trespassing hikers?
…and that they interpreted them as signs from spirits above to fight back against the USSR and kill these trespassing hikers.

QUESTION 80: Has this past year has been one of the worst for the Mansi? What is their main livelihood and how has it been affected by disease?
The past year has been one of the worst for the Mansi. They make their livelihood herding and hunting reindeer, and half of the reindeer population has just been wiped out by disease.

QUESTION 81: Do they believe this blight on their reindeer was punishment from the gods? So when this next so-called sign from the gods appears, trespassers on sacred land, the Mansi immediately take action?
They believe that was punishment from the gods, so when this next so-called sign from the gods appears, the Mansi immediately take action.

Investigators suspect the Mansi put together a killing party of at least ten men.

QUESTION 82: What do many believe in terms of some Mansi men taking “fly agaric” to build their courage and induce a “killing mood”?
Many believe the men first take some “fly agaric” to build up their courage and induce a “killing mood.”

QUESTION 83: What is fly agaric and is it known to grow in the Ural Mountain region?
Fly agaric is an hallucinogenic that comes from a mushroom grown in the Ural Mountain region. 

QUESTION 84: Is it’s what’s known as a ‘magic mushroom’ and are Mansi shamans known to use it for thousands and thousands of years?
It’s what’s otherwise known as a “magic mushroom” and Mansi shamans have been using it for close to 10,000 years.

QUESTION 85: What kind of energy and feelings is it said to give hunters?   
It gives their hunters a feeling of endless energy and “superhuman strength.”

Armed with a motive, Ivanov’s team believes they have a complete picture of that fateful night.

QUESTION 86: How do the Mansi carry out their alleged attack?
Do they first sneak up to the campsite and cut a hole into the tent?
The Mansi first sneak up to the campsite and cut a hole into the tent.

QUESTION 87: Is it reasoned the Mansi use guns to make the campers take off their shoes and clothes then, they order them to march down the hill?
After a shock and awe surprise attack on the tent, the Mansi use guns to make the campers take off their shoes and clothes. Then, they order them to march down the hill.

QUESTION 88: Is this motivated by a desire to get the outsiders off of their sacred land?
This is all done in order to get them off of their sacred land.

QUESTION 89: How many sets of footprints were discovered in the snow and were they going downhill?
The footprints that were discovered in the snow show eight to nine sets of footprints going downhill. 

QUESTION 90: Are some of these footprints clearly made by bare feet? Do all appear to be imprints made by people who are walking, not running?
Some are clearly made by bare feet and all appear to be imprints made by people who are walking, not running.

Investigators believe that once the Dyatlov hikers are brought down from the sacred peak, a physical assault begins.

QUESTION 91: At this point, are the two men who are in their underwear probably already nearly dead from hypothermia? Are they the first to go?
At this point, the two men who are in their underwear are probably already near dead from hypothermia. They are the first to go.

QUESTION 92: What happens to the three others? Are they beaten more severely by blunt objects as they try to escape by going back up to the tent?
Three others are beaten more severely by blunt objects but they try to escape by going back up to the tent.

QUESTION 93: Do they also succumb to the cold?
They also succumb to the cold.

QUESTION 94: Does it appear maybe the final four try and hide in a hunter’s old “snow den” in the ravine?
It appears maybe the final four try and hide in a hunter’s old “snow den” in the ravine.

QUESTION 95: Do the Mansi inflict worse injuries on these four, perhaps by jumping up and down on their chests until their ribs are broken and they stop breathing?
The Mansi inflict worse injuries on them, and end up jumping up and down on their chests until their ribs are broken and they stop breathing.

QUESTION 96: Does this scenario basically all add up for Ivanov? 
To Ivanov, this all adds up. 

QUESTION 97: Why don’t the Mansi steal anything? Is it because they are on a religious mission of revenge?
The Mansi do not steal anything because they are on a religious mission of revenge.

QUESTION 98: Might they also want to send a message to everyone in Russia: trespassing on our territory can be deadly?
They also want to send a message to everyone in Russia: trespassing on our territory can be deadly.

The Mansi continue to deny the accusations. And without a confession, Ivanov has no proof.

[Ziljoe]

Total respect for you hereTeddy.

 I had come across the film before but I know what these documentaries can be like, and the media. The audacity to tell how to reply makes one wonder over any comments. 

I rather watch those from the forum that do their own videos, even if I have to work through the language. I'm pleased to see they have a qualified medic over on Dyatlovpass1 that will hopefully help with queries. 

I was actually watching one of your videos on u tube the other night teddy, forgot with who. It was a young USA or Canada I think. Wooly hat and grey sweater I think, I'll need to look back. I'm sure I was going to ask you a question but have forgotten. She let you speak , which was great .

[Teddy]

Liam Le Guillou is a great guy, I was just caught by surprise by the "no theory" part of the statement.
He gave everything he could to make the movie, and was totally depleted.
It is just the recipe for a movie is to have closure. You have to be very big, like Josh Gates, to be able to pull it off without a theory.
Before going to shoot Expedition Unknown they wrung me up for a theory, even threaten me that to join the expedition I need to give them a theory. But Igor Pavlov only told me his version after the expedition. So in order to go to the pass I told them some cock and bull story while Mike Libecki kept repeating "It's crazy man, they all went crazy."
Aaaa, the good old days when I didn't have a theory!

[Ziljoe]

Aaaa, the good old days when I didn't have a theory!

  ha, you are committed now  . You give it credibility and I watch your developments with interest, the tree rings fascinate me. I'm terribly sceptical but I can't argue ( I will try)  with someone who suggests it was a tree and finds one a few feet away that matches dates. Hard evidence is difficult to argue against. I'm sure Igor P would be delighted.

I'm still stuck with the tent being on the slope but.....that fallen tree is pulling.

[gunmat]

Thank you for your summary of the film. Since you have direct and internal knowledge about the background of the film, you speak with authority. I have only seen the film as a spectator and based on that, without any theories in mind, some impressions have stuck with me. The film is worth watching.
Svetlana Oss's Mansi theory serves as a leitmotif, without drawing firm conclusions. That's why I say the director maintains a reasonable distance from those involved.

Svetlana exaggerates the effects of the fly agaric mushroom and downplays other factors that do not support her theory. But this is a technique used in all available theories of the disaster to strengthen a theory. After watching the film, I read her book "Don't Go There". There, I saw that she struggled to explain the injuries on the victims. In order to do so, she created a description of the effects of the fly agaric mushroom, which is factually incorrect. The mushroom is not kryptonite that gives people superpowers. Instead of saying that one person could inflict similar injuries on another person using a heavy rifle butt from a hunting rifle, she gets tangled up in a dubious story. Thus, the theory collapses at a crucial point.

It's interesting to hear FBI agents Ken Holmes and Mick Fennerty talk about evidence. (retired)

The film explains to a large extent the search teams' reluctance to move the bodies without them being placed in sealed coffins, by revealing the Kyshtym disaster. Those involved in the search probably had knowledge of the disaster that occurred in 1957. The film also reveals that Georgy Krivonischenko and Aleksander Kolevatov had practiced at laboratories where nuclear material was handled. It was on their clothing that radioactivity was found. These seem like plausible explanations for the measured radioactivity. The radiaton should be disconnected from the mystery-

Also, read: https://dyatlovpass.com/radioctive-trace

Additionally, the film contains other interesting things that are not relevant to the mystery.

[Axelrod]

I watched this movie and I think the title of the movie contains a double translation error.
A more correct translation is "force majeure".

As for theories, I was reminded of the Norwegian researcher Thor Heyerdahl, who confirmed the idea that the inhabitants of Easter Island were immigrants from South America through his own experience.

Later genetic studies showed the opposite. that they are immigrants from Indonesia. This conclusion can also be made by comparing the language of the island's inhabitants with the languages of Polynesia. But it seems that the Norwegian was only interested in his own ideas.

[gunmat]

The title of the film is created by a British-born man. I assume he has a grasp of his own native language.

Regarding Thor Heyerdal, he was an adventurer who was never accepted by academics as a serious researcher. Even though on his expeditions, he actually proved that things considered academically unthinkable were indeed possible. One of the things he demonstrated was how long a balsa raft would stay afloat if built correctly. What is less known from the Kon-Tiki expedition is that the U.S. Navy, prior to the expedition, conducted some experiments with balsa wood and concluded that the raft would float for about 3 weeks. Kon-Tiki, however, floated successfully for 52 days at sea.

What the Americans did was to cut balsa wood into cubes of different sizes, drop them into saltwater, and then record how long each cube remained afloat. Based on this, and the dimensions of the trees used for Kon-Tiki, they calculated how long the raft could float. (assuming that the calculations were based on averages with the addition of standard deviations) This was considered science, but today, researchers would likely say that the method was neither valid nor reliable. It simply relied on flawed assumptions... (similar to some theories in the Dyatlov mystery)

[Ziljoe]

The film would seem to be another general introduction to Dyatlov pass to get views by it's creators , unfortunately we now know that people being asked questions were given the answers that the producers wanted to film. It sounds like they just wanted an open ended documentary. Plus they didn't research forums like this one.

The reluctance to carry the bodies on the helicopter is not related to the Kyshtym disaster. Where did this come from?

[gunmat]

Ja. from where?

[Ziljoe]

Two debates around the refusal of the pilots to take the bodies relates to the ravine 4 as I understand it.

 1) that there were strict protocols about loading helicopters. Weight, unstable cargo etc. The pilots felt this was not their job.

2) that the bodies were decomposing, I think it was zinc coffins that was requested.

They found a compromise on how to load the bodies without the zinc coffins . Here below.there is no mention of radiation, that is speculation that comes later after they test the clothes.

We packed them for transportation and there was no reason to refuse to take them. The medical expert refused to examine or to cut the bodies here on site. It is absolutely not dangerous from the point of hygiene. They are folded and covered in special impervious material. The crew said they would not transport them until they are in Zinc coffins.

At this point Colonel Ortyukov reached the limits of his desperation. He took out his pistol and threatened the crew. Vladimir Askinadzi intervened, after which the medical expert reorganized how the bodies should be packed for transportation, and they were finally airlifted for transportation to Ivdel.

As for the radioactive clothing, all 9 samples were found to be radioactive, all of the ravine 4 had contaminated clothing. 2 samples were found to be above readings expected for workers exposed to working in radioactive environments. I believe it was Kolevatov and Dubinina that had the highest levels.

Forum member Ryan wrote very informative information about the topic. He has good knowledge about possible explanations.

Ryan has also suggested that the readings could be a sign of some sort of chemical

 
 Then I realized that KOH is pretty much the same as lye (NaOH), which has a reputation in fiction for dissolving bodies. (In practice, it often doesn’t work that well.) Someone trying to stage a scene suggesting hikers leaving their tent and dying of hypothermia might want the most obvious bodies injured by trauma, which would contradict that narrative, to disappear. This could explain why these bodies were found in the ravine, and why they were mildly but noticeably radioactive with beta particles (the K-40 naturally occurring in the potassium.)


The radioactivity is a part of the original case and the reason for taking the readings is odd in the first place. Glowing clothes?

[gunmat]

"You are correct regarding the pilots' reluctance to transport the bodies without them being placed in zinc coffins. In fact, written records do not confirm this. It was a comment I had read and therefore not directly sourced from original references.
I need to read more."

[Ziljoe]

Forgive me gunmat ,

I am wrong a lot of the time, I have read or watched media, only to find that someone else had assumed someone else had researched statements or facts .

It's a team effort , I have found myself going back to the beginning and start all over again.

I've had to deprogram myself from a lot of junk on the media and what i first read.

[GlennM]

An unknown compelling force of human origin is much more compelling than weather. Since weather is transient, no verifiable closure can be had. But, if it was a dirty deed, then there is always the hope of a deathbed confession. Time is running out for that,  I think.