Walking sticks

[GlennM]

I can understand how the hikers could get driven from the tent with the wind at their backs all the way to the woods. I can concieve them doing this without the use of ski poles. I have a much harder time imagining how anyone could make it uphill from the cedar to the tent, in snow and possibly in a head wind without either a ski pole or two. If no pole, then surely a stout branch would be essential for the climb.

Nobody noted the hikers who returned to the tent having walking sticks. That is odd. Too, since ice was documented where Rustem lay, we must assume he was alive when he fell. This rules out posing corpses and all that business.

I understand the paradoxical undressing, but they didn't. So I don't buy they threw their ski poles or branches away either. I can't figure it out.

[Axelrod]

you probably mean such things?

In 65 years, you are probably the first person who asked about this... When I was in Kislovodsk and Pyatigorsk, I often saw people (usually 60+) walking in the park with Nordic walking poles. I think it's such a fashion. Because I saw 20+ people with such sticks.

It is very strange to me that people use 2 sticks. 1 stick is enough.

When I went to the mountains, sometimes it was easier and faster for me to go down. when there is a stick in your hand. The second stick is extra. You don't need a stick to climb. When you go down, you leave the stick right where it is no longer needed. Local residents probably take them upstairs every time so as not to have to look for a stick at the top of mountain.


(Slobodin and Kolmogorova)

вы наверное подразумеваете такие штуки?

За 65 лет вы наверное первый    человек, который про это спросил... Когда я был в Кисловодске и Пятигорске, я часто видел, как люди (обычно 60+) ходят в парке с палками для скандинавской ходьбы. Я думаю, что это такая мода. Потому что я видел людей 20+ с такими палками.

Для меня и очень странно, что люди используют 2 палки. Достаточно 1 палки.

Я когда ходил в горы, мне иногда было легче спускаться и быстрее. когда в руке есть палка. Вторая палка лишняя. Для подъёма палка не нужна. Когда спускаешься вниз, то ты оставляешь палку сразу там, где она становится не нужна. Местные жители наверное потом каждый раз берут их наверх, чтобы не искать потом палку наверху каждый раз.

[Ziljoe]

I occasionally use adjustable walking sticks, they do help acceding and descending but not really necessary. Can help with bad knees fitness etc. The use of two sticks is for pushing off to get forward motion from the upper body , I have used one stick for balance and a then tent pole.

I would suspect that even if the hikers were trying to regain the tent , then the cold would have already compromised their hand dexterity. For example, not being able to hold a stick and if they could, then their hands would be exposed to wind chill making things worse.

It would seem from other deaths in similar circumstances of cold exposure that people drop many items and usually end up crawling to where they eventually give up. They may have taken a branch but dropped it exiting the tree line.

From reading the statements of the searcher's  and research videos , there does seem to be areas that the hikers would have sunk into deep snow at the ravine coming down from the slope.

[GlennM]

We suspect that if the tent was indeed on the slope and the hikers made for the woods, then trip/fall accidents on whe way down seem entirely likely. It would be sensible to equip with some sort of,walking stick if one could be fashioned. Personally, if I heard wolves , I'd waste no time getting something in hand, cold or not.

Perhaps during a future expedition to the area, a metal detector might be used to locate a long lost dropped ski pole somewhere on the trail,down or back.

[Ziljoe]

It's definitely a good question Glennm, why they couldn't grab an axe , blanket , stick or more equipment is perplexing.

If there was no snow slide or the tent wasn't covered with snow , then I don't have a clue.

There's no answer .

[Arjan]

According to my analysis it is likely that the Dyatlov group had descended to the ravine in three separate parties with different goals at different times.
These three parties had the aim to return to the tent.
For non of these three parties, walking sticks had been useful.

At 15:00 pm, Lyudmila, Semyon and Thibo had descended to the ravine for fetching running water. Walking sticks had not been helpful in any way while carrying one or two buckets of water (and some firewood) uphill.
Remind: these three had been properly clothed for a return trip to the ravine and Semyon and Thibo had been found with shoes on.

At 17:00 pm, Yuri Kri, Yuri Dor, Alexander and Igor had descended to the ravine, looking after the fate of the three who had descended around 15:00 pm. Walking sticks had been useless for supporting wounded group members uphill.
Remind: these four had been wearing socks to have a better grip on the icy surface. On this icy surface, walking sticks would not have been helpfull during the return trip.
 
The next day at 9:00 am. Zinaida and Rustem had descended to the ravine, to look after the fate of the seven group member. Zinaida and Rustem had been properly dressed for a return trip lasting one or two hours during daytime; both had been wearing socks to have a better grip on the icy surface; Zinaida had been found with an army face mask around her waist: had she been afraid for chemical polution?
Anyway: walking poles had been useless for supporting other group members back to the tent in order to descend from there to the storage.

The full analysis is described in the six parts of "the last two days of the Dyatlov Group" in this forum.

[Ziljoe]

I think zina's military face mask is just a snow mask. Basically a face shield from wind and snow, not for chemical protection.

[GlennM]

About those buckets...?

[Arjan]

The buckets:

Sorry I had not double checked the reply.

Case file 17 states:
- Utensils: spoons - 7, mugs - 5, aluminum cups - 3, buckets - 2, stove with stovepipe.

But there is not proof that buckets had been carried to the ravine.

Anyway, in case Lyudmila, Semyon and Thibo had descended to fetch running water, they had to carry is one way or the other.
THis could be done in a back-pack, but according to case file 9 backpacks had been found in the tent..

Conclusion: in case these three group members had descended to the ravine, they had to carry the running water in bottles or bucket 'by hand'.

If so, walking sticks had been useless on the return to the tent.


rugsack

[Arjan]

The facemask on the photo in the mortuary is certainly not an adequate Personal Protective Equipment that might meet the EU PPE directive,

But we don't know the intention why Zinaida had been wearing this facemask around her waist, maybe/probably as a limited protection against chemicals?

I should haven stated this more clearly in my reply.

[Ziljoe]

Which photo are we talking about, I'm not sure what we think is the mask?

[Arjan]

The second, third and fourth post mortem photos of Zinaida in the mortuary shows a military facemask attached to the waist of her trousers.

[Ziljoe]

In her pockets were found 5 rubles and a military style protective mask on the left side of her chest between the top sweater and the checkered shirt underneath



I don't think there's a mask around her waste.

Editted the photo out because content.

[GlennM]

With all this said, I think the hikers got to their final camp utilizing
ski poles. It seems unreasonable that anyone would venture any distance in wintery conditions without at least one. They were not buried with the skis, no?  Can we account for 18 ski poles?

[Arjan]

Coming back on the zinaida's face mask visible on photos made in the mortuary.

The post mortem report of Zinaida states:
- 'Under the checkered shirt on the left side of the chest is a military style defensive mask'.

On the second, third, and fourth photo of Zinaida in the mortuary, this mask is visible, see relevant part of one of these photos.



Remark:
On photos, I have seen police forces wearing this specific kind of mask while dismantling a drugs lab: probably filters may be attached to the tube/hose on the front.
Personally I think these police forces had been wearing these masks to avoid recognition by outsiders, because this kind of mask provides a very limited protection against chemicals.

[Ziljoe]

Sorry Arjan , I can not see a mask in your photo. There is a comb and buttons.

It says under the checkered shirt, on the left side of the chest.  You are showing the right side of the body .

[Arjan]

On the second photo of Zinaida in the mortuary this item is in focus.

I have encircled the area wherein the item is visible.



In my view, this item is a facemask with on the right side a hose/cilinder for probably attaching a filter.

Remark:
In the mortuary, only photos had been taken of details that had been very special in the view of the coroner.
This item and natural fibres had very probably very special in the opinion of the coroner, because there are four photos of both.


 

[Ziljoe]

It says in the autopsy report.

Blue cotton sports pants with two internal pockets, the buckles on the hips are unbuttoned. In the right pocket is a brown comb with two broken teeth.

What we see in the picture is the right hand side pocket( possibly turned inside out ) . It is the comb with two broken teeth , not a hose cilinder. The report is factual. We can also see the unbuttoned buckles on the hips.

 


Link to the clearer picture.
https://dyatlovpass.com/zinaida-kolmogorova

[Arjan]

Thank you for this clarification.

After rereading in the post mortem report: 'In the right pocket is a brown comb with two broken teeth', and looking again at your enlarged photo, I think you are right.

Thank you again for the clarification

[Ziljoe]

Thank you for this clarification.

After rereading in the post mortem report: 'In the right pocket is a brown comb with two broken teeth', and looking again at your enlarged photo, I think you are right.

Thank you again for the clarification

No , thank you Arjan . I did not mean to correct you . I could see where you coming from . Thank you for your reply .