February 04, 2025, 11:41:41 PM
Dyatlov Pass Forum

Author Topic: New variant of my book (Force majeure on Dyatlov pass)  (Read 24028 times)

0 Members and 8 Guests are viewing this topic.

January 25, 2025, 08:41:14 AM
Reply #30
Offline

Axelrod


Gentlemen, stop making conflicts out of this thread. My relative Moisei Axelrod wrote witness testimony for Ivanov's interrogation on April 24, 1959 and was the first to promote this event in the book "100 Days in the Urals" (1993) and in the film "The Mystery of the Dyatlovo Pass" (1997). Unfortunately, he died in 1998... I should to carry his task through to the logical end.
 

January 25, 2025, 11:17:29 AM
Reply #31
Offline

Axelrod


 

January 25, 2025, 11:39:14 AM
Reply #32
Offline

OLD JEDI 72


Information from this Wikipedia article will be added during this month

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleveland_Clinic_fire_of_1929

Their faces turned yellowish-brown within minutes as they suffocated...

Sounds reasonable. But why would they have x-ray film or a film reel when they didn't have a movie camera? And if it's an empty cannister with residue, why didn't it activate prior?
"Just the facts, ma'am."
 

January 25, 2025, 12:46:10 PM
Reply #33
Online

GlennM


If I remember correctly there was a broken ski pole in the tent. This was a central support pole. How could it break? I can imagine it bending under a uniformly heavy weight. This, of course implies a slab slide onto the tent. I can imagine it breaking if somebody was holding it upright at the base while the top was being pushed to the side. Here, I think its snow pressure or wind pressure on the canvas. Regarding wind, If there was much wind blowing over the tent,  would the tent  inflate owing to pressure differences? If it ballooned on a side, or even overall, and threatened to lift and shred, would cutting the side relieve pressure and save the tent make sense?

I feel that only if the tent was unlivable but salvagable would people leave it then try to regain it. For me, the only compelling reason to leave the tent is because it was unbreathable. We have no report of chemical scent, animal scent or wood smoke residue within the tent. We do see images of a collapsed tent under snow. A slab slde, not avalanche makes sense to me.
We don't have to say everything that comes into our head.
 

January 25, 2025, 01:13:09 PM
Reply #34
Offline

Axelrod


I was in a bad mood this morning, but I'll write more about it now. The basic idea is that in the first half of the century, film soaked in nitric acid (dangerous) was used, and in the second half of the 20th century, film soaked in acetic acid (safe label), etc. was produced. The production of dangerous film ceased in the 1950s, and since the mid-1960s, projectionists have not dealt with dangerous film.


Old film was used by tourists to make fires. This is what Sunkorkin (chief researcher of the Dyatlov Pass) says.

[SUNGORKIN]: We went like this ourselves… At that time, in order to make a fire, we took with us either film strips cut into pieces… The guys had film strips… Or some celluloid pieces – they are very good, fun, with great light up due to heat transfer. And the next question is maintaining the fire. It's no problem.

A roll of film for 10 minutes of film is 3.5 cm wide (like photographic film), 270-300 meters long and weighs 2 kg (1 meter weighs 7 grams, as I measured).
At 24 frames per second and a frame height of 19 mm, you can calculate the tape length yourself.
When burning in the range of 120*C-540*C, 1% hydrocyanic acid (HCN) is released, which decomposes in a large fire above 540*C), ~50% carbon monoxide and ~15% nitrogen oxides, which are transformed into nitric acid (~30% of the roll weight, taking into account the addition of water). Since the toxicity of hydrocyanic acid is 400-500 times higher (for a human, the lethal dose is one millionth (1/1,000,000 of its body weight) than nitric acid, the blue color of the corpses is explained by this. The yellow (orange) color is explained by the effect of nitric acid.
If your weight is 70 kg, then the lethal dose is 70 mg, and when 1 kg burns, at least 7 g is released (the dose for 100 people)

I assume that the film caught fire in the tent from an impact or an electric discharge.

Next, the size of the film package has a diameter of 27.5 cm (11 inches), this fits the cut for tents of 31-32 cm, as indicated in the study (with a can height of 4.5 cm). I specially took a bag and tried to repeat this size and its shape. You can do this too, looking at the shape of cut No. 1. But while the tourists were 3-5 minutes in a tent. They managed to inhale enough concentration to die a few hours after the explosion, about the same as from potassium cyanide. Rib injuries have a separate cause.

I'm trying to explain the detonation, but for me this moment is no longer important. The main thing is that the film somehow caught fire. It is possible that the tourists had an open source of radiation (these were sweaters with dust or batteries for flashlights made of beta emitters). If there was dust from radiation on their clothes, then this dust could have gotten on the film and had an effect.
Since Dyatlov's flashlight, found in a tent on February 26, turned on when turned on, having lain in the cold for a month (-15 on the day of discovery and -35*C in general). Not every element can withstand the cold of -35*C. If the flashlight was warm, then it is possible that the flashlight had such batteries.





 

January 25, 2025, 01:38:00 PM
Reply #35
Offline

OLD JEDI 72


You've got the strange colored skin covered but a rocket booster got there first. And they're picking up parts.
"Just the facts, ma'am."
 

January 25, 2025, 02:41:12 PM
Reply #36
Online

GlennM


Thank you for establishing that old film was used as an accelerant for firemaking. Too, your comment on the release of noxious fumes is instructive. While all this is plasuibel, and indeed likely, I have trouble applying this to the DPI. The release of toxic gas is not going to compel 9 reasonable people to trek a half mile in the dark and cold  when they could instead stand upwind outside the tent and shake to air it out. Next, since the celluloid is an accelerant, the burn marks in and on the tent should be obvious. The retrieved tent was stored for a long time. Long enough for someone to make observations to support a chemical burn hypothesis.

If someone can make the arguement that the autopsy reports support toxic smoke inhalation, that would be good confirmation of a film fire.

At this point in the conversation, I feel that because the possibility of a film caused disaster has been explored, it must be supported by the reported evidence. Otherwise, it goes into the dustbin of plausible, not actual causes.
We don't have to say everything that comes into our head.
 

January 25, 2025, 02:52:51 PM
Reply #37
Offline

Axelrod


First of all, we need to throw into the trash bin the assumptions about the night darkness, wind and cold.
Such assumptions are made for death from cold. (The cold is typical for that region but the cold could have come at another moment in time.)

Experiments show that such maneuvers can be done at -5*C, but at -25*C it is difficult.
We also have evidence of the weather in Burmantovo about -5*C at one point of onservation (23-00).
On Dyatlov pass , this moment maybe was earlier in time, caused by warm western wind form Atlantica (not from North).

If they made a cut2+window+cut3 of 2 meter long in tent (it was caused by smoke), it was no sence to sit in tent even when -5*C.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2025, 03:52:22 PM by Axelrod »
 

January 25, 2025, 04:28:11 PM
Reply #38
Online

GlennM


It is not the darkness, nor cold that is the issue. Rather, it is the liklihood that a film in a canister with celluloid movie film burned and was the cause of the exodus from the tent.

 There are three kinds of evidence. They are physical, circumstantial and eyewitness testimony. Of the three, only circumstantial evidence exists for a chemical fire. There is nothing physical, nor is there any eyewitness testimony from the rescuers, nor criminal investigators to support the theory. Because of this, more research is needed to support the idea. I suggest the condition of the upper respiratory system at autopsy should be considered. To my knowledge, nobody has explored that option in light of this current hypothesis.
We don't have to say everything that comes into our head.
 

January 26, 2025, 12:28:30 AM
Reply #39
Offline

Axelrod


NEW CHAPTER IS READY TODAY

And the brothers will give you the sword
It is quite difficult to investigate events when there is something secret in them. Then you can make logical conclusions and explanations that have no relation to reality. It is similar to how a person sees workers entering and leaving a factory every day, but does not know what they are doing there. That is, he sees something, and does not see something, does not understand the meaning of signs, words and terms, while doing a lot of useless work, trying to understand the incomprehensible.

For example, the poet Pushkin. Pushkin's father, Sergei Lvovich Pushkin, was in the military, rose to the rank of major. After resigning, he took up his favorite business – literature and Masonic works. He was initiated in 1814 in the Warsaw lodge of the "Northern Shield", had the highest Masonic degrees, held the positions of speaker, Second Guardian in the lodges.

At the age of 19, the son tried to join the lodge of the "Three Virtues", but did not pass the ballot. He managed to do this later in Chisinau.

<P>No documents about Pushkin's acceptance into the lodge have survived, but there is an entry in the poet's Kishinev diary from 1821: "On May 4, I was accepted into the Masons." The members of the secret organization (more than 20 people) gathered in the basement of the house where the Greek Mikhalaki Katsiki lived. Before becoming a member of the secret society, it was necessary to undergo a ritual.}

"Each lodge had its own rituals. For example, his uncle Vasily Lvovich, thanks to whom the future poet entered the lyceum, had to undergo a terrible ritual. He was laid on a bench with his eyes blindfolded and covered with fur coats, so he was stunned by the heat, but was accepted into the lodge.


The lodge was named after the ancient Roman poet Ovid, and the number 25 became its ordinal number – the organization was the last on the list in the Russian Empire. It is said that the name of the lodge was suggested by Pushkin himself.

After the unsuccessful Decembrist uprising, Pushkin will write these words.

"In the depths of Siberian ores, keep proud patience..."

Now let us read the study posted on the Ruthenia website (United Humanitarian Publishing House of the Department of Russian Literature, University of Tartu, Estonia): "And the brothers will give you the sword" (V. Prasamov)
   
1. Pushkin's poem "In the depths of Siberian ores" was understood differently by the Decembrists. The famous answer of A.I. Odoevsky was not an expression of the general opinion. M.I. Muravyov-Apostol and A.E. Rosen saw in this poem an appeal only to the author's lyceum friends Pushchin and Kuchelbecker. D.I. Zavalishin noted that some "gullible" Decembrists decided that Pushkin was telling them that in Russia there were "continuers of their cause."

The connection of the poem with the lyceum theme has been repeatedly noted by researchers. At the same time, it was also indicated that Pushkin, in the person of his closest friends, addressed all the imprisoned Decembrists. This is indisputable.

2. If the addressee of the poem does not cause significant disagreement in the research literature, then the message itself is the subject of heated controversy. Disputes are conducted both about the general concept of the poem and about its individual places. Let us dwell on the last line of the poem.

And the brothers will give you the sword. Who are the "brothers" and what does "sword" mean? As noted above, D. I. Zavalishin wrote in his memoirs about penal servitude that "Pushkin's poem aroused in some gullible people, after the experience we had, unrealistic hopes that in fact "the brothers will give them the sword" and that, consequently, there are continuers of their cause in Russia."

The opinion of these "gullible" Decembrists was shared by some researchers. However, the generally accepted point of view at the present time can be considered the opinion that this is not about continuing the struggle, but about restoring the Decembrists to civil and class rights. At the same time, it remains unclear who the "brothers" are, if not the continuers of the Decembrists' cause.

V. Nepomnyashchy recently came up with a rather strange explanation of this word. In his opinion, the "brothers" are all the nobles of the Russian Empire.

It is difficult to imagine Benckendorff fraternally extending weapons to the forgiven Decembrists. V. Nepomnyashchy's concept is purely speculative. In order to understand who the "brothers" are, we should follow the use of this word in other texts by Pushkin, primarily poetry.

3. Of all the meanings of this word indicated in the "Dictionary of the Pushkin Language", in this case we will be interested in the meaning "like-minded person, friend". Pushkin calls Delvig "brother" ("My brother by blood, by soul...", "We were born, my named brother..."), Kuchelbecker ("Dear brother of Lyceum life", "My brother by muse, by fate"), Pushchin ("my brother by cup"), Vyazemsky ("So, you are still my brother"). The words "friend" and "comrade" can be semantically related to the word "brother" in Pushkin. For example, when addressing Pushchin: "My first friend, my priceless friend" or Chaadayev: "Comrade, believe...". Pushkin attributed a complete series of synonyms to the convicted Decembrists: "The penal servitude of 120 friends, brothers, comrades is terrible."

4. As can be seen from these examples, Pushkin called a very specific circle of people brothers4. These were the people closest to him, friends from childhood or early youth: lyceum students Delvig, Kuchelbecker, Pushchin; an older comrade, but also a lyceum acquaintance Chaadayev. A fairly rapid rapprochement with Vyazemsky should probably be attributed to the second half of 1817. All these people had a direct relationship with the Decembrists.

Researchers of the Decembrist movement often attribute them to different political camps. Pushchin and Kuchelbecker turn out to be Decembrists, and Delvig, Vyazemsky, Chaadayev are people close to the Decembrists. Meanwhile, for Pushkin, this was a single circle of closest friends. Until July 1826, it was unknown who would end up where. They could all end up in hard labor. However, their fates turned out differently. Vyazemsky, Delvig, and Chaadayev ended up in disfavor, but at liberty; Kuchelbecker in a fortress; Pushchin in Siberia. Thus, as a result of the catastrophe of December 14, the unity of this circle fell apart, but apparently there were hopes that the "brothers" would unite again. Pushkin revealed the theme of the catastrophe in "Arion", and the theme of hopes in the message to Siberia.

5. Thus, it can be assumed that Pushkin, when he wrote "brothers", had in mind a very specific circle of people. However, it remains unclear how the "brothers" would be able to "give the sword" to the condemned.

Apparently, in addition to its subject-logical meaning, the word "sword" could also acquire additional associative meanings. The sword can act not only as a symbol of honor, but also as a symbol of unity, alliance, and justice. Therefore, the line "And the brothers will give you the sword" should be understood not only as a process that is the opposite of civil execution, but also as a hope for the unification of people who are close in spirit and the triumph of justice. It seems that Pushkin's specific use of the word "brother", as well as the symbolic meanings of the sword, should be taken into account in a full analysis of this poem.

[–] Here the person wrote the word "It seems" correctly. This is not a statement. If you don't know, don't write, don't disgrace yourself.

« Last Edit: January 26, 2025, 01:09:01 AM by Axelrod »
 

January 26, 2025, 06:15:20 AM
Reply #40
Online

GlennM


The focus of this thread  is elsewhere. I will let interested parties communicate.
We don't have to say everything that comes into our head.
 

January 26, 2025, 07:22:25 AM
Reply #41
Offline

Axelrod


The focus of this thread  is elsewhere. I will let interested parties communicate.
Excuse me, how do you know what the focus is here? Are you the author of this text? What's the focus here? I'm defining, not you. Why are you giving me instructions? If the administration decides that I'm behaving incorrectly, they can delete me, but what does this have to do with you?

Why are you forbidding me to write anything? You act as if you are the boss here. You probably really feel like you are.
You're making up the idea that I have to explain and prove something. I don't think I have to prove anything, at least to everyone. I think that most people should understand everything anyway.
If you show too much arbitrariness, I'll have to choose another thread or another forum.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2025, 01:47:27 PM by Axelrod »
 

January 26, 2025, 05:38:57 PM
Reply #42
Offline

Ziljoe


The focus of this thread  is elsewhere. I will let interested parties communicate.
Excuse me, how do you know what the focus is here? Are you the author of this text? What's the focus here? I'm defining, not you. Why are you giving me instructions? If the administration decides that I'm behaving incorrectly, they can delete me, but what does this have to do with you?

Why are you forbidding me to write anything? You act as if you are the boss here. You probably really feel like you are.
You're making up the idea that I have to explain and prove something. I don't think I have to prove anything, at least to everyone. I think that most people should understand everything anyway.
If you show too much arbitrariness, I'll have to choose another thread or another forum.

Dear Axelrod ,
I believe many of us are interested in your input and knowledge.

No one is suggesting that you are behaving inappropriately. Least or all Glennm.

No one is forbidding you to write anything .
For me, and I am speaking for myself, I don't always understand your view point. I don't know if you have the answer to the dp9 and what happened to them , or you do actually know.

I hope that makes sense. For me , I appreciate your work but I'm not exactly sure of what you are putting forward.?

I will not pretend to understand, because I don't, this may to do with my own intelligence, so I request  that you could explain your theories/ perspective in a simplified form.

And I mean I hat with all my respect to you and family members that were involved.
 
The following users thanked this post: GlennM

January 27, 2025, 01:18:28 AM
Reply #43
Offline

Axelrod


TRANSLATED MESSAGE:
I don't have a short version of the explanation planned. Leo Tolstoy didn't write a school essay on his bookы.
It is assumed that the reader will read the whole thing, all 2000 pages (666 pages in each book).
And here's the question, what is the mystery? After the mystery of death, many other mysteries arise.

As for the causes of death, I studied who adhered to the same version that I had, and it turned out that it was TV presenter Andrei Malakhov. He is a professional in such cases, he was born in the northern region (in Murmansk), but he is a busy person to deal only with the Dyatlov case. But his hypothesis (as it is stated in Andreev's book) was confirmed for me, although even to me it seemed strange at first.

I was able to devote more time to the Dyatlov group than Malakhov. The rest of the people after Malakhov are some kind of slackers, pensioners (when the head is no longer able to think), mystifiers, religious fanatics, only instead of religion and them DPI. One blogger with 500 videos on Dyatlov specifically admits that he was in a mental hospital.

In one discussion I read that discussing the details of Zolotarev's biography does not bring us any closer to solving what happened at the pass. Now I can say that explaining the events at the pass does not bring us any closer to solving Zolotarev's life. Where to find this information about Zolotarev now, I have no idea. Fortunately, the Varsegovs were able to establish enough about Zolotarev... People created intrigue with Zoltarev and other events without an answer.

Also, Maslennikov did not save the tickets, in which seats on the train Dyatlov's group traveled to Serov.
Now I can not answer all the riddles that arise.

I also don't understand where school 41 is in the city of Serov, where Dyatlov was on January 24.
This is one of the key pitfalls in the investigation. If Dyatlov made such mistakes, then other mistakes are not surprising.
If the investigation made a copy error, then the result of the investigation is not surprising.
If the researchers found School 47, then this activity is also in doubt.
If School 41 was found on the site of School 22, then this is completely outrageous.

My mother is very interested in this question, because she worked in school 22, and this is one of the last schools (built in 1936, then completed), so it is absolutely obvious that there is a mistake here. Probably, to clarify this mystery, I will have to go to Serov. I do not need to go further to the Dyatlov Pass, it has already been explored without me up and down and is still being explored.

The moment that hooked me personally at the very beginning. This is the interrogation of Gordo. I passed the Kartuz-Bereza and Bereza-Gorod stations on the Moscow-Brest train several times. This is not the Grodno region, this is the Brest region. In short, the truth and the lie in the documents. Sit and figure it out.

ORIGINФL OF MESSAGE:
Краткий вариант объяснения у меня не планируется. Лев Толстой не писал школьное сочинение по своим кнмигам.
Предполагается, что читатель будет читать всё полностью, все 2000 страниц (666 страниц в каждой книге).
И такой вопрос, а что собственно является загадкой? После загадки гибели возникает множество других загадок.

Насчёт причин гибели,. Я изучал, кто придерживался такой же версии, какая возникла у меня, так оказалось, что это телеведущий Андрей Малахов.  Это профессионал в таких случаях, он родился в северном регионе (в Мурманске), но он человек занятой, чтобы разбираться только со случаем Дятлова. Но его гипотеза (как она указан в книге Андреева) у меня подтвердилась, хотя даже мне она сначала казалась странной.

Я смог уделит больше времени группе Дятлова, чем Малахов. Остальные люди после Малахова - это какие-то бездельники, пенсионеры (когда голова уже не соображает), мистификаторы, религиозные фанаты, только вместо религии и них DPI. Один блогер с 500 роликами по Дятлову конкретно признаётся, что он лежал в психбольнице.

В одном обсуждении я прочитал, что обсуждение деталей биографии Золотарёва никак не приближает нас к разгадке того, что произошло на перевале. Теперь я могу сказать, что объяснение событий на перевале никак не приближает к разгадке жизни Золотарёва. Где теперь находить эту информацию про Золотарёва, я не представляю. Благо, Варсеговы смогли установить достаточно по Золотарёву... Люди создали интригу с Золтарёвым и другими событиями без ответа.

Также Масленнников не сохранил билеты, на каких местах в поезде ехала группа Дятлова до Серова.
Я теперь не могу ответить на все загадки, которые возникают.

также мне непонятно, где находится 41 школа в городе Серове, в которой был Дятлов 24 января.
Это один из ключевых подвохов в расследовании. Если Дятлов делал такие ошибки, то неудивительны и другие ошибки.
Если следствие сделало ошибку копии то неудивителен результат следствия.
Если исследаватели нашли 47 школу, то эта деятельность тоже под сомнением.
Если 41 школу нашли на месте 22 школы, то это вообще ни в какие ворота не лезет.

Мою маму этот вопрос очень интересует, потому что она работала в 22 школе, и это одна из последних школ (построена в 1936, потом достроена), так что абсолютно очевидно, что здесь ошибка.  Наверное, для выяснения этой загадки мне придётся ехать в Серов. Ехать дальше на перевал Дятлова мне нет необходимости, его уже исследовали без меня вдоль и поперёк и ещё исследуют.

Момент, который зацепил в самом начале лично меня. Это допрос Гордо. Я несколько раз проезжал на поезде «Москва–Брест» станции Картуз-Берёза и Берёза-Город. Это не Гродненская область, это Брестская область. Короче, правда и ложь в документах. Сиди и разбирайся.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2025, 01:29:25 AM by Axelrod »
 

January 30, 2025, 02:43:51 AM
Reply #44
Offline

Axelrod


I repost here the photos as illustrations for my ideas:







The same cut.



« Last Edit: January 30, 2025, 03:01:31 AM by Axelrod »
 

February 02, 2025, 11:55:48 AM
Reply #45
Offline

Axelrod


« Last Edit: February 02, 2025, 12:19:26 PM by Axelrod »