Flashlights

[Per Inge Oestmoen]

There are two things to say about the avalanche or snow drift theories.

There is no indication that there were any violent movements in the snow at the camp site. Even if allow the possibility that the students may have wrongly assumed that something like that was approaching, then not only were there no signs that there had been anything like that, but these experienced hikers and mountaineers would very soon have understood that there was no danger. They would not have have gone a mile away from the tent.

[Per Inge Oestmoen]

I think the compass in the hand is a sure sign they were not injured and crawling around in agony etc.  This guy was buried in a den collapse.

The injuries cannot be mistaken - they were very real and incapacitating.

If he held a compass in his hand, it is very possible that it was a dying man's last desperate action when he tried to hold on to something. But this is all speculative. We cannot know how a dying and tormented man thinks during his last minutes in life. It cannot be taken as evidence that he died alone or that nobody caused his death.

[Per Inge Oestmoen]

I agree! The flashlights are only a small part in a big puzzle (the one on the tent is very important to me for another reason). Play with it ... take your imagination and think about why 2 flashlights are in 2 places: a) lost b) forgotten c) randomly filed d) no explanation e) other

- One of the students held the flashlight, and seems to have put it down for an unknown reason. There is nothing to tell us whether the person did that by his or her own will or otherwise.

- If there was a forced exit from the tent, one of the students may have carried the second light but lost it. That is a reasonable assumption if the nine hikers were threatened by attackers and had other things to think about than a torch in the hand.

[Mash]

For CalzagheChick!

Of course you can not exclude a (small) avalanche, (small) slab, snow load.

I don`t have the time to explain and translate that. I can recommend two sides. Do the work and read it. It is very interesting and will probably take you further.

http://www.alpklubspb.ru/ass/dyatlov_12.htm

http://taina.li/forum/index.php?topic=5623.0

[CalzagheChick]

For CalzagheChick!

Of course you can not exclude a (small) avalanche, (small) slab, snow load.

I don`t have the time to explain and translate that. I can recommend two sides. Do the work and read it. It is very interesting and will probably take you further.

http://www.alpklubspb.ru/ass/dyatlov_12.htm

http://taina.li/forum/index.php?topic=5623.0

I'm slowly making my way through the articles using Google Translate which is TERRIBLE. I'm impressed with your level of knowledge on the case that you present to us being a new member. It would appear that the German forums that you frequented before this one has some pretty intelligent people in them. They should come here and spread their wealth of knowledge with us. I love the NEW thoughts.

[Marchesk]

I was unaware that the avalanche theory has been completely discredited. In fact it's my understanding that most people's idea of avalanche is inaccurate in this specific case because these students would have experienced some kind of drift or shift in the snowscape.

Right, but if it was some kind of drift/shift in the snow, would that be cause to abandon the tent site for the forest? Was the tent so buried that they couldn't dig out some shoes and warming clothing? My understanding is that the tent wasn't found in a condition of being buried. Some of the snow could have melted or been blown away, but you would think if the shift/drift was enough to force them to the woods badly clothed, there would have been indication of that.

Maybe some sort of avalanche can't be fully ruled out, but then neither can ball lightning, infrasound or stove malfunction.

[Loose}{Cannon]

You don't need an actual avalanche to take place in order to fear one.  In the whiteout conditions in which they pitched their tent, followd but darkness in said conditions, I doubt the were certain about anything regarding a possible slide.  Im also aware of the many sounds generated by high winds across, through, and around objects.

[Per Inge Oestmoen]

You don't need an actual avalanche to take place in order to fear one.  In the whiteout conditions in which they pitched their tent, followd but darkness in said conditions, I doubt the were certain about anything regarding a possible slide.  Im also aware of the many sounds generated by high winds across, through, and around objects.

But nothing of this explains why all the nine students left their tent and moved 1500 meters away. If they had been scared out of their tent they would soon have discovered that there was no danger - and they would have gone back before long instead of having remained outdoors in the Siberian winter night improperly dressed.

The theory that the students became so afraid that they left the tent has no basis in evidence. More importantly, that theory fails to explain the deaths and the injuries that caused death. Even if we theorize that some natural phenomena could have frightened the Dyatlov group, no natural phenomenon could have attacked, injured and killed the students the way it happened. There was no traces of an avalanche or violent drift of snow, the tent was upright, the damages done to the most severely injured could not be caused by falls or snow, and atmospheric phenomena of course cannot cause such bodily damage as was found and documented.

[Per Inge Oestmoen]

I was unaware that the avalanche theory has been completely discredited. In fact it's my understanding that most people's idea of avalanche is inaccurate in this specific case because these students would have experienced some kind of drift or shift in the snowscape.

Right, but if it was some kind of drift/shift in the snow, would that be cause to abandon the tent site for the forest? Was the tent so buried that they couldn't dig out some shoes and warming clothing? My understanding is that the tent wasn't found in a condition of being buried. Some of the snow could have melted or been blown away, but you would think if the shift/drift was enough to force them to the woods badly clothed, there would have been indication of that.

Maybe some sort of avalanche can't be fully ruled out, but then neither can ball lightning, infrasound or stove malfunction.

The difficulty is that there is no evidence that ball lighting or infrasound was the reason why they left the tent, there is no traces of an avalanche or drift in the snow that could realistically do any harm, and it has been proven that the stove was not used and therefore could not create any trouble.

No problems at the camp site could possibly first compel the students to flee without proper clothing and gloves, and then run for a mile and stay out there in the cold. And these problems would hardly be the cause of smashed skulls, crushed windpipes and lethally damaged breast cages.

Why rule out the very real possibility that the nine were murdered?

Why would we consider undocumented avalanches, undocumented infrasound, undocumented ball lighting and the disproven possibility of a stove accident as more probable than the possibility of homicide?

[Blkdahlia]

No flash lights were found with the group. My understanding is that there were 2 flashlights, one still working by the tent and another one found at random.
Is it possible that it was daytime when the incident occurred?
Zolotarev was found with pen and notebook in hand as well as compass. Who writes in the dark? What good is a compass in the dark? Zolotarev also had his camera with him which would not be unusual if it were the day time.
Zina, Dyatlov and I believe Slobodin were all three found face towards the tent. How could they find the tent in the dark? They would have to have light in order to know which direction to walk in. If the tent became so dangerous that they had to cut their way out fleeing without their shoes, don’t you think they would visually confirm it was safe to return before heading back. Why wouldn’t they just stay by the fire where Yuri and Kriv were found?
Is it possible that the  flashlight was tossed because it wasn’t needed?
The investigation was poorly conducted and we can look at all possibilities.

[Blkdahlia]

You don't need an actual avalanche to take place in order to fear one.  In the whiteout conditions in which they pitched their tent, followd but darkness in said conditions, I doubt the were certain about anything regarding a possible slide.  Im also aware of the many sounds generated by high winds across, through, and around objects.

But nothing of this explains why all the nine students left their tent and moved 1500 meters away. If they had been scared out of their tent they would soon have discovered that there was no danger - and they would have gone back before long instead of having remained outdoors in the Siberian winter night improperly dressed.

The theory that the students became so afraid that they left the tent has no basis in evidence. More importantly, that theory fails to explain the deaths and the injuries that caused death. Even if we theorize that some natural phenomena could have frightened the Dyatlov group, no natural phenomenon could have attacked, injured and killed the students the way it happened. There was no traces of an avalanche or violent drift of snow, the tent was upright, the damages done to the most severely injured could not be caused by falls or snow, and atmospheric phenomena of course cannot cause such bodily damage as was found and documented.

Couldn’t agree more.

[Loose}{Cannon]

While in a lighted tent, your eyes adjust acordingly. When your come out of said tent, your eyes are not adjusted thus having a flashlight would be helpful. Hours later and possibly in less snow blown conditions, your eyes would be more adapted. The moon also lights up snow very well... if of course there is less blowing snow to shine through.

[sarapuk]

Well it looks like they were poorly equipped as far as FLASHLIGHTS go.  How many were listed in the inventory  !  ?  I would have expected each member of the Dyatlov Group to carry a TORCH. 

[Squatch]

You don't need an actual avalanche to take place in order to fear one.  In the whiteout conditions in which they pitched their tent, followd but darkness in said conditions, I doubt the were certain about anything regarding a possible slide.  Im also aware of the many sounds generated by high winds across, through, and around objects.

But nothing of this explains why all the nine students left their tent and moved 1500 meters away. If they had been scared out of their tent they would soon have discovered that there was no danger - and they would have gone back before long instead of having remained outdoors in the Siberian winter night improperly dressed.

The theory that the students became so afraid that they left the tent has no basis in evidence. More importantly, that theory fails to explain the deaths and the injuries that caused death. Even if we theorize that some natural phenomena could have frightened the Dyatlov group, no natural phenomenon could have attacked, injured and killed the students the way it happened. There was no traces of an avalanche or violent drift of snow, the tent was upright, the damages done to the most severely injured could not be caused by falls or snow, and atmospheric phenomena of course cannot cause such bodily damage as was found and documented.

I think the students moved away because fierce wind gusts blew snow across the top of Kholat Syakhl onto the tent area. In the extreme weather conditions, it would not be possible to know if wind was doing this or if it was the start of an avalanche. Who would wait around to find out it was not an avalanche? And if one person panics, the rest are likely to panic as well.

The dropped flashlight at the tent was probably dropped by accident in the ensuing panic. Dyatlov could have been using it through the eye-level tent slits to look outside at the two properly-dressed students who were working on securing the tent. There could have been tent trouble due to extreme winds and Dyatlov may have talked with them through the slits and kept the flashlight off most of the time.

[Beluga1303]

As we know from Slobtsov report, the torch was found on 10 cm of snow, not under snow. If the group has put the torch there, it must not have snowed since leaving the tent. In any case, no more heavy snowfalls. Pashin and Cheglakov both claimed they weren't at the tent on February 24th. Perhaps they were there after all, and briefly searched the tent? They thought about stealing the flashlight from the tent. But then they decided to leave the flashlight there. I don't trust the statements made by Pashin and Cheglakov. Why didn't they report the discovery of the tent on February 24th?
And my next question: if the first bodies that were found were covered in snow, then why not the flashlight?

[Investigator]

As we know from Slobtsov report, the torch was found on 10 cm of snow, not under snow. If the group has put the torch there, it must not have snowed since leaving the tent. In any case, no more heavy snowfalls. Pashin and Cheglakov both claimed they weren't at the tent on February 24th. Perhaps they were there after all, and briefly searched the tent? They thought about stealing the flashlight from the tent. But then they decided to leave the flashlight there. I don't trust the statements made by Pashin and Cheglakov. Why didn't they report the discovery of the tent on February 24th?
And my next question: if the first bodies that were found were covered in snow, then why not the flashlight?

Even if that flashlight/torch was found somewhere down the mountain and then placed on top by rescuers, I don't see that making a big difference in terms of the most likely possibilities.  If the group placed it there, it could mean they weren't sure if they would return while it was still dark instead of waiting for morning.  It also suggests it wasn't especially dark that night and that with all the snow the moonlight was enough (and that it wasn't super windy, which would hinder visibility).  The bodies being covered by snow but not that flashlight/torch could simply be due to the how the wind blew across those areas.

[Nigel Evans]

As we know from Slobtsov report, the torch was found on 10 cm of snow, not under snow. If the group has put the torch there, it must not have snowed since leaving the tent. In any case, no more heavy snowfalls. Pashin and Cheglakov both claimed they weren't at the tent on February 24th. Perhaps they were there after all, and briefly searched the tent? They thought about stealing the flashlight from the tent. But then they decided to leave the flashlight there. I don't trust the statements made by Pashin and Cheglakov. Why didn't they report the discovery of the tent on February 24th?
And my next question: if the first bodies that were found were covered in snow, then why not the flashlight?

Wind drift exposes some areas and covers others. E.g. the footsteps.

[Beluga1303]

 Wind drift exposes some areas and covers others. E.g. the footsteps.


Yes, there is a possibility.

[Nigel Evans]

Wind drift exposes some areas and covers others. E.g. the footsteps.


Yes, there is a possibility.

A bit more than possible i think, that's what wind drift is? Snow gets blown off exposed areas and deposited in sheltered areas. You always know where you are with it, it's 100% dependable.