My theory and it is pretty simple.

[MDGross]

Maybe I missed something in my study of the DPI. I don't recall any talk of a snow cave, but of a snow den. The so called Ravine Four were freezing, so they hurriedly dug (using only their hands) a trench. They piled the snow that they removed on the surface above to help block the wind. From what I've read, there was no roof or walls of snow. It was part of the trench itself that broke away, which caused the four to fall into the ravine below.

[Axelrod]

You can imagine that three people fell somewhere, three guys.
But judging by Dubinina's position, it is hard to imagine that she fell from somewhere.

When I saw the video from the winter of 2015, I immediately got the idea
that they entered a trench in the darkness, this thench was previously washed out by water (Dubinina was the last one after guys),
and the 3-meter wall of this trench collapsed on them from the side of 1079.

Such a picture usually does not arise in the imagination, because it is hard to imagine the relief that Denis Doropey and his team witnessed.

[Олег Таймень]

Олег Таймень.,

I find you without any comment about your views or explanation of the Dyatlov pass incident.

Not that you don't comment and give other people's opinions.

I for one would love to hear your thoughts. You have put nothing forward,  yet you have the swagger of someone that knows more than others.

Explain yourself and thoughts.

Let me repeat that I am not inclined to fantasize. Only facts. So far I only have a list of possible situations as a result of which tourists get broken ribs in the mountains. I check and research these situations during winter hikes to Dyatlov Pass. Cave collapse is not on this list. Because a collapsed cave does not break ribs. Never.
I want to clarify... The fact that a collapsed cave did not break ribs does not mean that this cave did not exist. Most likely it did. It was dug by tourists as a shelter from the wind. I would do the same in their place. Most tourists would do the same.
I would like to invite you to a winter hike to Dyatlov Pass, so that you have a clearer understanding of what happens and what does not happen. I promise that together with you we will dig a cave in that very place and spend the night in it. This winter Stas and I are going to the pass together. This is the one who runs around in socks. You will be the third participant. I assure you, sitting on the couch you will not achieve the solution to the tragedy.

[Ziljoe]

Maybe I missed something in my study of the DPI. I don't recall any talk of a snow cave, but of a snow den. The so called Ravine Four were freezing, so they hurriedly dug (using only their hands) a trench. They piled the snow that they removed on the surface above to help block the wind. From what I've read, there was no roof or walls of snow. It was part of the trench itself that broke away, which caused the four to fall into the ravine below.

You must have missed it. I didn't start the snow cave concept . Yes there was the den , that's with the flooring of branches we can see in the photos . The concept of the snow cave / snow bridge / cornice is an effort to explain how the the ravine 4 got where they were found .

They have no frostbite , they have the most serious injuries, these injuries seemed to happen when they were alive .  They were found under 3 meters of snow , at ground level . So there must be a cave, snow bridge or no snow in that ravine at ground level on February the 2nd . If there was no snow ( or very little) then someone put them there , I have not heard any reason for that, I do not think anyone wasted energy digging a hole . Also, by the 27th of February, tons of snow has filled the ravine , that's on top of the den and the ravine 4.

[Ziljoe]

Олег Таймень.,

I find you without any comment about your views or explanation of the Dyatlov pass incident.

Not that you don't comment and give other people's opinions.

I for one would love to hear your thoughts. You have put nothing forward,  yet you have the swagger of someone that knows more than others.

Explain yourself and thoughts.

Let me repeat that I am not inclined to fantasize. Only facts. So far I only have a list of possible situations as a result of which tourists get broken ribs in the mountains. I check and research these situations during winter hikes to Dyatlov Pass. Cave collapse is not on this list. Because a collapsed cave does not break ribs. Never.
I want to clarify... The fact that a collapsed cave did not break ribs does not mean that this cave did not exist. Most likely it did. It was dug by tourists as a shelter from the wind. I would do the same in their place. Most tourists would do the same.
I would like to invite you to a winter hike to Dyatlov Pass, so that you have a clearer understanding of what happens and what does not happen. I promise that together with you we will dig a cave in that very place and spend the night in it. This winter Stas and I are going to the pass together. This is the one who runs around in socks. You will be the third participant. I assure you, sitting on the couch you will not achieve the solution to the tragedy.

I will repeat , or rather , dare to fantasize, as you put it, that somehow the ribs were broken at the location where the bodies of the ravine 4 were found.

When I say, I lean towards that is what happened, it means , out of all the theories ( fantasies)  put forward, this seems to be the most likely. The theory( fantasizing)  of others or outsiders , a tree , rockets or the injuries occuring at the tent from an avalanche are on the lower end of probabilities for me at this time.

There are a number of people that support this idea across the Dyatlov community. As you say ,you have a number of ideas , I would like to hear your list of possible situations as to how these injuries occurred. I will refrain from accusing them as being fantasies or "mushrooms growing in the mouth " .

I am grateful and humbled for the invite. Regrettably, this is not achievable , this year at least.  I do not sit on the couch and try to achieve the solution to the tragedy, I sit on the fence and lean.

However, I am glad you have joined the debate and respect your viewpoints and experience . I would love to hear your thoughts on how these injuries occurred and I suspect everyone else will to . 

If no snow collapse at the ravine can break ribs or fracture a skull, how did it come to be they had those injuries? .

[amashilu]

Many things puzzle me when I try to imagine that a ton of snow falling on these people broke their bones, but what puzzles me most is the position Dubinina was found in. It seems that tons of snow falling on her would have knocked her over, at least.

[GlennM]

Dubinina's posture suggests she was either returning to her companions or she was dehydrated and drinking or she was distancing herself from them. I support the idea that she was rejoining the group after being driven out by the pressure of a collapse of snow at the den, but she was too lethargic to climb up owing to hypothermia. So she just went to sleep and passed into oblivion. I have no idea whether water was running or not when she died. She was found much later on.

[Ziljoe]

I also get stuck on the ravine 4. Without outsiders I can only suggest that on their way in the treeline Dubinina and/or some of them fell through a snow bridge , just around that small water fall , that area would potentially have the weakest cutout underneath if water had been flowing under the snow .

If the sides of that hole were too steep to climb out , then perhaps what we are seeing is a rescue attempt from the others to rescue Dubinina. The two Yuri's might have done the first digging along the stream cutout and got wet and went to remove some of their clothing and start the fire, the others were preparing the flooring for Dubinina , the other three entered this snow arch to carry on with enlarging the hole to drag her out , the snow above collapsed entombing them. Zina, Dyatlov and Slobidin try to dig them out but can't do anymore , the two Yuri's have started to fail from the wet and cold, they are then moved by the last three , away from the last of the embers and the decision is made to try and regain anything they can from the tent.

Everyone is allowed to shout fantasy ...I'm just trying to put forward an idea as no one else is saying anything. 

[Axelrod]

The fact that they fell somewhere into the snow, it seems, these fantasies were voiced either by prosecutor Shkryabach with his preliminary conclusions, or by prosecutor Kuryakov during the prosecutor's inspection in 2019-2020.

How can the position of their bodies indicate that they actually fell?
How can the dynamics of the fall lead to such a position of the bodies?
I can't imagine this.

[Ziljoe]

The fact that they fell somewhere into the snow, it seems, these fantasies were voiced either by prosecutor Shkryabach with his preliminary conclusions, or by prosecutor Kuryakov during the prosecutor's inspection in 2019-2020.

How can the position of their bodies indicate that they actually fell?
How can the dynamics of the fall lead to such a position of the bodies?
I can't imagine this.

I agree with your observations axelrod, I'm not sure who you are replying to in this post.

If it's my last post , I imagine ( fantasize) that one of them fell in to a deep hole , with no life changing injuries , IE: the ravine but couldn't get out.

I propose the other bodies got trapped. If that makes any sense.

[GlennM]

I seem to recall that the den or a den was made by Mansi in this location for use while hunting or herding. If so, there would be depth to it. Then if the ravine 4 stumbled upon it unawares, perhaps it was a fall hazard. Did anyone figure out how they got in the den otherwise? When the den was discovered and uncovered, it was deep.

The clothes in the den are evidence the ravine 4 knew of it. They would likely only leave it for firewood, toilet activities or to help one of their own in distress. " Where we go one, we go all" might explain why none were found in the den.

[Ziljoe]

From my vague memory Glennm , it has/was suggested that this was a known Mansi campsite..although there is no proof . What is reported, I think in April/ may when the thaw comes , the hired Mansi noticed the cut stumps, clothing etc which lead the tsearchers to concentrate on that part of the ravine. That's my interpretation at least.

It is a question of the den flooring being pre incident or post incident I guess.

[Axelrod]

It's hard to figure out all these ideas about the flooring, hunters and why they should be there.
When I started studying this topic, fortunately, one of the first videos I received was video from the Doropey team about the overhanging snow.

The most I had heard before was the yeti and UFO.

Only later did I begin to learn other crazy ideas. For example, about a pyramid of 9 people who fell and the top one damaged their skulls, also about a tent moved from the flooring to the mountain.

If my head had been damaged by them from the very beginning, I don't know what would have happened to me.

[Олег Таймень]

I have been trying to refute the Bardin-Shuleshko version for three years now and I can't do it. All other versions are easy to refute.

[Ziljoe]

I have been trying to refute the Bardin-Shuleshko version for three years now and I can't do it. All other versions are easy to refute.

Thank you , I'm not sure if I'm familiar with what Bardin-Shuleshko version is , I can't get a link when searching the name. Do you have a link?.

[Олег Таймень]

I have been trying to refute the Bardin-Shuleshko version for three years now and I can't do it. All other versions are easy to refute.

Thank you , I'm not sure if I'm familiar with what Bardin-Shuleshko version is , I can't get a link when searching the name. Do you have a link?.

Have you never read the criminal case of the Dyatlov group?

[Ziljoe]

If you mean the criminal files, then yes or most of what I can find. I have a slight problem with remembering names as they are not my first language but that is my fault.

A couple of links don't seem to exist anymore but I assume you refer to a hurricane?

[Олег Таймень]

The full criminal case is on the website
https://dyatlovpass.com/case-files
https://dyatlovpass.com/case-files-volume-2
Before putting forward any theory, I strongly recommend that you familiarize yourself with the case

[Axelrod]

Report of Bardin & Shuleshko is presented here - CASE FILES :: CPSU SPECIAL REPORST

https://dyatlovpass.com/special-reports

In is not translated to Englsih yet (exosts only in Russian scans and photos).

Partially it is presented here

https://dyatlovpass.com/case-files-32-35

[Ziljoe]

Report of Bardin & Shuleshko is presented here - CASE FILES :: CPSU SPECIAL REPORST

https://dyatlovpass.com/special-reports

In is not translated to Englsih yet (exosts only in Russian scans and photos).

Partially it is presented here

https://dyatlovpass.com/case-files-32-35

Thank you axelrod for being helpful.

I have looked at it before but it's the other translation on the links  it's why I ask about what they are actually saying.

As far as I'm aware they speculation it was a hurricane.  From translating the Documents ( I'm sure there's inaccuracy) I see 3 new comments that I haven't seen before. One is the report of two sets off footprints , one with 3 people and one with 6 people , the paths of the group did not cross and the group of three foot prints was about 10 meters away from the group of six foot prints,.

Also that YURI DOROSHENKO was found on a branch that was broken in several places from a fall.

Also that some of the footprints that were opposite to the raised ones had broken through a lair of ice and the snow was soft below.

The translation could be wrong but these are new small details .

I also hadn't seen the quite rigorous reprimanding to all those involved in sports and the accusations of the many failures and lazy response . There is anger in the report.

I also didn't read anywhere before about the 11 criminals that were hunted down with 9 weapons that had robbed a warehouse. 3 pistols I think at least . 

[Ziljoe]

The full criminal case is on the website
https://dyatlovpass.com/case-files
https://dyatlovpass.com/case-files-volume-2
Before putting forward any theory, I strongly recommend that you familiarize yourself with the case

I've read them all but don't claim to remember all that's said. I can't see anything that Bardin & Shuleshko said that explains the injuries.

[Osi]

Raised footprints; It provides solid evidence to predict weather conditions when the tent is abandoned. There was a snowstorm when the tent was abandoned. Assuming that there is no snowfall or storm that night and the following days; We should have seen the tracks on the hardened snow as collapsed pits.
They probably didn't want to go any further as the storm was about to start and thought they could make it through the night under the current conditions. Once the tent was set up, conditions became twice as severe. Snow was piling up in the tent and it was collapsing. They fixed it with poles, but it was collapsing again. One pole even broke. Immediately go down to the forest, light a fire and wait for the storm to pass. In fact, I think they are all on equal terms when it comes to clothing. Buying or losing clothes is a situation that we encounter in the following pages. This explains the journey into the forest to some extent, but when it comes to the reason for leaving the tent without shoes, I hesitate. The small layer of snow that formed while setting up the tent probably caused the young people to panic.

[Олег Таймень]

Raised footprints; It provides solid evidence to predict weather conditions when the tent is abandoned. There was a snowstorm when the tent was abandoned. Assuming that there is no snowfall or storm that night and the following days; We should have seen the tracks on the hardened snow as collapsed pits.
They probably didn't want to go any further as the storm was about to start and thought they could make it through the night under the current conditions. Once the tent was set up, conditions became twice as severe. Snow was piling up in the tent and it was collapsing. They fixed it with poles, but it was collapsing again. One pole even broke. Immediately go down to the forest, light a fire and wait for the storm to pass. In fact, I think they are all on equal terms when it comes to clothing. Buying or losing clothes is a situation that we encounter in the following pages. This explains the journey into the forest to some extent, but when it comes to the reason for leaving the tent without shoes, I hesitate. The small layer of snow that formed while setting up the tent probably caused the young people to panic.

And I think that Dyatlov's group lowered the tent itself to the ground to reduce the windage in a strong wind. We did it on hikes. Mountaineers do it sometimes. And that's why it was quickly covered with snow and there was nothing to breathe. We had to cut it from the inside. That's how it used to be with us on Elbrus. And that's exactly how a group of Kazakh climbers, suffocating, cut their tent, who died under Pobeda Peak in 1954. This assumption is based on cases and tragedies that once happened.

[GlennM]

I thought it would make make sense to shelter at boot rock instead of the forest. There would be no fire, of course, but they could regain the tent sooner. Do you think they chose not to do so because they did not know how long the poor conditions would last?

[Per Inge Oestmoen]

There are facts of snow caves collapsing on people. People did not break their ribs during these collapses. Not in a single case. Such facts are on the Internet. They are not difficult to find and I looked for them and carefully studied them. Everything is logical there. If the snow is soft and can be dug, then it is safe for the ribs. This is not concrete. This is snow. This snow was dug. It was dug very recently!!!
There is not a single fact that a person's ribs were broken during the collapse of a dug snow cave. Since there are no such cases, it is impossible.
If anyone wants to fantasize, please do so. It is your right.

Dorogaja Олег Таймень - Dear Oleg Tajmen:

You are so right.

I am a student of history.

I am also pretty knowledgeable in martial arts and close combat techniques.

I know a lot about what highly educated, highly skilled police forces do when they want to take the lives of people.

In my view, there is not a shade of doubt that the nine students were killed by special forces, most likely the KGB special forces. In all probability, they were killed because they had witnessed something in the Urals which they were not supposed to know about. The order to kill them would have been issued from the Government itself. During the Cold War, the Russian government could not afford the risk that one of these nine told a colleague, friend, spouse or child what they had witnessed.

The nine were however loyal Soviet citizens. Still, the Government decided that they had to be preventively killed.

The Government knew that if the nine students just disappeared, or were brought home in closed coffins, everybody would understand what had happened.

Therefore, the nine potential risks had to be eliminated in such a way as to make it look like an accidents.

"Accidents" are, like "suicides" and "heart attacks," a method used by highly skilled special forces when they want to kill without making it obvious.

This is, more than likely, what happened in this case.

I am both frightened, angered and awestruck by the merciless skill and intelligence the Russian special forces showed when they eliminated the nine students 65 years ago. To force them out from their tent at gunpoint, and let the cold do its job, is a very intelligent way to cover up the murder of the nine.

I am positive that every single victim shows injuries consistent with human attack with lethal intent. Moreover, the injuries can only be explained by human attack.

What I cannot understand, is why some people devote their energy to the denial of what caused the death of the Dyatlov group.

[Per Inge Oestmoen]

Now I ask for your proof that ribs break when caves collapse.

Dear Oleg:

Why do some people deny the obvious? The Dyatlov Pass tragedy was a cold-blooded, intelligently planned murder.

Corpses do not lie, and the corpses tell their tale.

It is time to realize what happened.

The Dyatlov Pass tragedy was no accident.

It was murder. I have elaborated on this elsewhere on this forum.

[Ziljoe]

I think boot rock would have been just as exposed from strong winds. If it had been snow build up that ended up with the tent collapsing perhaps simulating an avalanche in the hikers minds, then down the slope into the gully and treeline for shelter makes sense.

It's within the decision of not taking extra equipment from the tent that suggests it was an immediate evacuation although the entrance remained upright .

If they pitched the tent and the wind was starting to blow , it may be another reason not to install the stove , that would just add weight to the tent ridge and danger to those inside.

Not to be able to reach in and grab a saw , jacket , blanket or footwear is my biggest problem . Perhaps the hikers were already wearing less than what they were found in and they grabbed what they could at that point .

Although there's arguments about much of this , the narrative coincides with what was found even through a poor investigation . At the time of recording the documents , within a space of a day , there was no evidence to suggest a crime. They had a flattened tent, 9 pairs of footprints (  difficult to stage this) going down the slope and 4 bodies along this line . Two of these hikers were next to a fire. There is nothing to suggest anything less than the hikers had to leave that slope , quickly.

[Олег Таймень]

Now I ask for your proof that ribs break when caves collapse.

Dear Oleg:

Why do some people deny the obvious? The Dyatlov Pass tragedy was a cold-blooded, intelligently planned murder.

Corpses do not lie, and the corpses tell their tale.

It is time to realize what happened.

The Dyatlov Pass tragedy was no accident.

It was murder. I have elaborated on this elsewhere on this forum.

Уважаемый, не нужно именно ко мне обращаться с вашими фантазиями.
Translates to:  Dear, you don't need to turn to me with your fantasies.

[Per Inge Oestmoen]

The Dyatlov Pass tragedy was no accident.

It was murder. I have elaborated on this elsewhere on this forum.

Уважаемый, не нужно именно ко мне обращаться с вашими фантазиями.
[/quote]

I understand Russian, by the way.

The fact that it was murder, was indirectly stated in various ways.

Most importantly, the investigators were called to Moscow and instructed to say that it was an accident. Later, when the investigation was re-opened, it was declared beforehand that conclusion must be that the tragedy could only have been caused by an avalanche, a slab avalanche or a hurricane. That was a clear admission, albeit an indirect one, that the force that killed the nine unfortunates was something very different.

Also, Vozrozhdenny claimed that the lethal damage to the bodies of the most injured ones could not have been caused by other humans. He justified that position by saying that no soft tissue had been damaged, and therefore the crushed bone could not have been the result of blows from an attack. That is an indirect confession: When the head is protected by any kind of headgear, the force of the blow does not damage the soft tissues but the bone is still taking the impact.

Yes, it was murder.

[Axelrod]

Four were freezing, so they hurriedly dug (using only their hands) a trench. They piled the snow that they removed on the surface above to help block the wind. From what I've read, there was no roof or walls of snow. It was part of the trench itself that broke away, which caused the four to fall into the ravine below.

In the video I provided in this topic (part 9), Oleg Taimen's wife records Oleg making a snow cave.

Oleg Taimen does not do the things described here. Oleg does not take snow with his bare hands and does not make bastions out of snow cubes. Why should Dyatlov do this? I do not understand.