An Argument For (Pro) A Fight

[Ziljoe]

Ziljoe
You can also light damp wood, the main thing is to have time to reach a self-sustaining mode.

Yes, I know this but when you have limited resources and you may be in a state of hypothermia with only matches and , you wouldn't use frozen wet wood. You need heat.

It could be argued that once they started a fire with the Cedar branches , why did they not bulk the fire with wood that was lying on the ground? It maybe that the tipping point had come .

What is your thoughts on the incident?

[OLD JEDI 72]

Hunter, let me repeat, the fact that a bottle of alcohol was inventoried in the tent doesn’t prove there wasn’t another. Just as scraps of paper or a strip of chirkash could be in someone’s pocket, a small bottle could have been carried along and never made it into the official lists. Was this chirkash in the inventory, or the bits of paper you speak of? That’s not unusual in the field, inventories show what was found, not necessarily every personal item each hiker had on them.

Think of it this way: In Ukraine, it’s not uncommon for someone on a trek to have a hidden flask of samohon (home-distilled spirit) for warmth or morale, while the "official"  supply stays with the group. If you later searched their camp and only found the communal bottle, would you assume no one ever carried their own? Of course not, common sense says a rogue flask could have existed, whether or not it was logged.

That said, I’m not even leaning on alcohol as the main answer here. Sap from conifers is highly flammable, and we know from both searcher reports and practical tests that resinous cedar and pine twigs will catch quickly. So while it’s worth keeping an open mind about "a missing bottle," they didn’t need alcohol to get that fire going at the cedar. Matches, paper scraps, birch bark, and resinous twigs are all you need.

[Hunter]

Ziljoe
Some of the clothes, paper money, and part of the magazine that was found with Zolotarev could have been used as kindling. They could have put the firewood they found, the rest was under the snow, so they didn't put it there.

OLD JEDI 72
Neither the searchers nor modern researchers found another flask. Glass is not effective in a hike.
According to the rules of conducting a search, everything should have been described in detail.
I think that the fire near the cedar was lit without the help of alcohol.

[OLD JEDI 72]

Hunter, I am thinking they did not use alcohol either, (at least not to start a fire) and agree that paper in pockets or chirkash mixed with resinous materials could get a fire going, but you'd really have to be perfect about it in all respects, which obviously they were for a small amount of time; but I just can't move on from the way you come to this conclusion. You're basing your conclusion on an inventory list. And what rules are supposed to be done in a search. I will sit here for an eternity until you see that just because someone did not find something doesn't mean it didn't exist. And when I say a "bottle of alcohol" it does not necessarily mean a literal glass bottle! It could have been contained in anything; bottle is a generic term. There were also other unaccounted items such as knives, and they were on the inventory. These are things my AI claims were found but were not on the inventory. Using your logic, should we assume these items did not exist because they were not on the inventory? As I said earlier, I do believe we both are thinking along the same lines, but it just irks me how you are basing your conclusions. If the AI got anything wrong, my apologies, but the point remains. These things weren't on the list, so do they really exist?

• “Unknown camera” and extra film:
Cameras dossier (case files 384–387)
• Dyatlov’s pocket contents:
Igor Dyatlov personal items (case files 11–20)
• Fur vest found on Dyatlov / returned clothing:
Dyatlov items page (covering fur vest returns)
• Knife accounting oddities vs returns:
Knives overview
Return of items to families

[Hunter]

A chirkash (singular chirkash) is the side surface of a matchbox that was used to light them. In those days, wax/paraffin or two cartridges - one 12, the other 16 gauge - were often used to seal matches. If you are interested, I can tell you. I suspect, and it is reasonable, that the searchers could have left some of the things "as a souvenir". For example, a flask for alcohol, which they carry in their pocket. But the problem is different - they do not carry alcohol there, with a strength of 96%, but alcohol with a strength of about 40%. And it burns quickly and will not allow the firewood to dry properly if you do not do good preparatory work. In the form of "fiery feathers", small branches, split lengthwise. I say this as an experienced pyromaniac.

It would be better to create a separate topic about knives. I wrote an article about this at the time.

[Ziljoe]

Ziljoe
Some of the clothes, paper money, and part of the magazine that was found with Zolotarev could have been used as kindling. They could have put the firewood they found, the rest was under the snow, so they didn't put it there.
.

Yes hunter, I have said this , do you not read the posts?

[Hunter]

I read through Google Translate, which sometimes translates crookedly.

[Hunter]

What do I think about the incident? It is quite possible that they walked to the cedar on adrenaline. And the adrenaline was still bubbling when they were making a fire. Then the strength began to decline. To light a fire, they could set fire to an entire matchbox at once. In the USSR, there were boxes like these:

This method gives a strong temperature at the start and can dry out damp branches.

[OLD JEDI 72]

Ah, the chirkash is the gritty strip. I did not hear anything about match boxes, Hunter, only loose matches sewn into clothes.

[Hunter]

How come you haven't heard of them? Never used them? Only lighters and flints?

[OLD JEDI 72]

No, we just use Ohio Blue Tips. You can actually strike them anywhere. With or without chirkass.

[Hunter]

Actually, matches can be lit on any rough surface. For example, sandpaper.

[OLD JEDI 72]

I dunno ziljoe, but maybe a splash of high proof alcohol onto the initial kindling. I refer to kindling as shavings and the sap you described. Even plastics on fire will keep it going with sap. Not great on the environment lol but I admit in my younger years of throwing plastic on fires. I'm starting to lean back towards a rocket event as causing a slab slide and scaring the bejesus out of everyone with the noise and creating pure panic.

[Hunter]

Jedi, then one flask of alcohol won't be enough for a hike. Or two, either.

[Ziljoe]

I dunno ziljoe, but maybe a splash of high proof alcohol onto the initial kindling. I refer to kindling as shavings and the sap you described. Even plastics on fire will keep it going with sap. Not great on the environment lol but I admit in my younger years of throwing plastic on fires. I'm starting to lean back towards a rocket event as causing a slab slide and scaring the bejesus out of everyone with the noise and creating pure panic.

I also messed around with various plastics , petrol in burning shenanigans with friends, how we are still alive is another question.

Our brains can think cold, freezing, wind and a couple of matches and that there would be no chance of starting a fire. It's logical to think this but fires can be started, it's just about getting the correct process .

The scene at the tree does tend to indicate it was the hikers that started the fire and not outsiders . If the wood is dry enough and you use the method of small twigs to larger branches then even the smallest flame will take .

I had difficulty as a youngster lighting a fire at home in a house and a fireplace with dried kindling, newspaper, Firestarters and seasoned wood but I have learnt how to make fires outdoors with all that is available in nature with nothing more than a spark. A match or lighter is better than a spark. Obviously it can take a bit of time to get going  but it can be done if you are used to doing it and I suspect the hikers would have had lots of experience in starting fires , in houses and outside .

To be able to start a fire would suggest that no one was fighting .

[Hunter]

It is not a fact that what is interpreted as traces of a fight are in fact these traces.

[OLD JEDI 72]

It is not a fact that what is interpreted as traces of a fight are in fact these traces.

Very true. Nothing is proven. I was playing around and this image is the result.

[OLD JEDI 72]

Imagine being frostbitten by a massive temperture inversion and a few nips off the bottle that was 'appropriated' from the pi1$head on the train. BTW, even RUNNING water that is freezing is still warmer than the outside air. I think the ravine 4 all jumped into the water to relieve themselves. It became too much!

[OLD JEDI 72]

I am very proud that this thread has the amount of views that it has been getting. I wonder why all has been quiet (in general) in here as well. At least a week before anyone has piped up. I guess there is a time for everything under the sun. A time to comment, a time to read..

[Axelrod]

I am very proud that this thread has the amount of views that it has been getting. I wonder why all has been quiet (in general) in here as well. At least a week before anyone has piped up. I guess there is a time for everything under the sun. A time to comment, a time to read..

Yes. I am celebrating Hebrew New Year, 5786.