What do the footsteps say?

[amashilu]

I have read many times about the footsteps being "side by side" or in a "single file" and many other ways of explaining how they were arranged. But does this mean that the hikers went down the slope in couples (side by side), 2 x 2,  one couple at a time, with couples following each other?  Or does it mean that they all stood in one long line, 9 people in one long line (single file)?

According to this image (https://dyatlovpass.com/1959-search?flp=1#the-tent),  they actually stood in one long line, all nine of them, close to one another. This seems like the best arrangement to take care of people. If it is dark and you cannot see the rocky ledge or other dangers ahead, holding onto each other in one long line would be the smartest way to travel; if one person slipped or twisted their ankle, he or she would be held up by the two on either side of them.

To me, this arrangement quite definitively rules out infighting in the group. They were standing and walking together, holding onto one another, and proceeding slowly and cautiously.

Quote from Teddy, same page as referenced above:  "Overall the path gave an impression of organized and uneventful descent down the slope of the mountain."

[Ziljoe]

A really good point amashilu

I came to similar conclusion about this too. I have also walked down a hill in the dark and did the exact same thing although it was only 3 of us . It was a gentle slope but we couldn't see , so supported each other by being at each others side walking slowly.

If I remember correctly, one of the statements said there were two sets of paths that diverged at some point , 3 and 6 people then came back together. If the event had been staged it would be easier to fake a single file path. No one would be able to tell how many people had walked the path if it were single file.

One other reason I can think as to why they walked abreast, is if someone was following from behind with perhaps a gun. It would be easier to control the group if any were to try and run down hill. If it were single file , the person at the front could get further away without leaving a clean shooting angle for example, after a 100meters in poor light and a single shot rifle it would perhaps not be easy to shoot.

Another reason could be they were searching for something but I can't think of anything that important that they would go further than a few meters , not even bank notes or paperwork. It can't of been someone blown down the slope as we have the walking footprints which means they were walking upright.

The footprints next to eachother suggests they were together as a unit and for whatever reason, walking abreast seemed to have some kind of advantage over single file or by pairs .

[amashilu]

Ziljoe, yes, and you are right about the two options: 1) They all agreed that the tent was now uninhabitable— they couldn't even return for their shoes. So they organized into a safe and cautious line, holding onto one another, and started to descend to the treeline.  Or 2) a person wearing boots walked behind them with a gun.

I don't see infighting as an option.

[GlennM]

Looking at the diagram makes me think Igor et.al. did not have a ghost of a chance of getting back to that tent. They were in no condition to achieve it, yet they could no nothing else. It appears a desperate and brave attempt to beat the odds. I do not support the idea they were out in the open to signal an airplane. They were not prepared.

For me, the footprints suggest an orderly descent with no foot dragging. They got out of the tent while the getting was good. They stayed too long in the woods and fell victim to the Russian Winter.

[GlennM]

I have been toying with the idea that 7 of the 9 descended the slope as a group in darkness walking  side by side. They were calling out for the two Yuris who previously went on an errand and did not return as expected. Those 7, having shed their heavy garments in advance of bed time, were inadequately dressed for an extended trek, but perhaps they figured the Yuris would be somewhere between woods and tent. If so, then all of them would be back in the tent relatively quickly That did not happen.

 A switched on flashlight on the third rock outcrop suggests they, the rescuers from the tent, made this descent at night. Too, since they did not find the two Yuris enroute, they descended all the way to the tree line, perhaps drawn to the cedar by flames, the glow of a fire or intuition. This distance from the tent was further than any thought they would go. Still, if it was to be a matter of helping friends limp back to camp, all would be well enough.

 What they found surely must have shocked and saddened them. The Yuris had gotten wet and chilled. Either the Yuris (whom I suspect) or the rescuers made a fire but it was insufficient. It is additionally possible that in order to make an even larger fire, someone climbed the cedar resulting in a fall and additional injury. Perhaps the 7 from the tent found the Yuri's dead or nearly so. I suspect at least one had succumbed because of the livor mortis location on the corpse when found by later rescue/recovery efforts. He had been turned over when placed by the tree trunk. Tending a Yuri still alive came at the expense of body heat for all. When both had expired, the bodies were undressed for survival of the others and prominently placed respectfully for retrieval at a later date.

From the map posted earlier on this thread, Igor, Rustem and Zina were not oriented to the tent, but rather to the flashlight, perhaps to gather it by following steps already made in snow. Then, back to the tent. Being inadequately clothed plus facing subfreezing temperatures and a headwind, their strength failed them, each falling a bit further on than the last.

The others sought protection from the wind in a ravine...

Since none returned to the tent, it got torn up by the weather.

[OLD JEDI 72]

Just because the footsteps appear to be together, doesn't make it so. They could technically have gone one at a time 5 minutes apart. There's no timestamp on those prints individually.

[Ziljoe]

There is sense in that Glennm. A small sequence of events that led them just a bit too far from safety for what may have seemed like small incident.

Also an interesting observation about the line of hikers going towards the torch . The torch does lend itself to being put there on purpose as it was found in the on position and that would most likely a beacon .

I can't think if there's anything mentioned about other torches in the tent and what position the switches were on other than the one found on the tent. They must have had some lighting in the tent? There was no reports of candle wax being spilt and this would have been good evidence of a commotion inside the tent .

[GlennM]

Ziljoe, although there is a lot to like in this idea of rescuing the two Yuris, I have some other thoughts on the matter. The forensic exam finds stomach contents 6 to 8 hours old. To me this means they did eat something before going down hill. That something could have been a mid day meal or an evening at camp. If evening, then it suggests they ate and then volunteered to go fetch kindling or water for the next morning's breakfast, I would suppose they would equip with an empty rucksack , a hatchet, knife and flasks. If they got in trouble,  they would burn what they gathered. Otherwise, the gathered wood would be used the following morning for coffee at camp.

If any sort of rucksack, flask, axe, knife or bundling cords were recovered , that would lend credence to the idea. The cords perhaps could be used to bind branches in the den, or bind splints for the injured.

As evidenced by the candle and the orderliness when it was found all supports a controlled exit from the tent. The elephant in the room are the tears in the canvas. To me it is inconsistent to destroy a shelter and leave the contents organized. That is as far fetched as the notion of conspirators relocating the tent neatly, then cutting it up. Nonsense! I am going to check about the Yuris and the Evening Ortoten. Would the Yuris also be there to enjoy it? If so, their departure would follow later on. I thought business before pleasure. That said, the Otorten may have happened the previous day.

It could be that the Yuris descended in fading twilight, not fearing returning after dark. I think it unlikely that anyone would climb the cedar after sunset.

All in all, my greatest reservation to this is weighing the energy cost and risk of carrying wood on the previous day versus the cost of not bringing wood and then trekking to the woods to get some. I am no cross country hiker, but I do apperciate harder versus smarter thinking.

[Ziljoe]

Glennm, I agree that they would have extra equipment if gathering wood or water and there is no indication that they did. A small log each carried from the day before would be enough to give some heat for the night without causing to much extra burden. For me, the comfort would outway the inconvenience if the intention was to camp on the slope .

Because we have the foot steps or foot prints , it does indicate fresh soft snow. I do wonder if Igor thought to take advantage of this fresh snow and reverse his route , the pass and labaz are more or less the crossing point of a figure of eight for the return leg from Ortoten. We know they were fed up of navigating through the woods and that the tops of the mountains are usually exposed with icy snow and exposed rocks. A fresh fall or drift on the gentle slopes could have been a gift to take advantage of , then return through the woods to the labaz . It's the same route but in reverse?

The condition of the tent is a frustration as it seems to have been tampered with three times. The afternoon of it's discovery, the following day early morning and then again for the official inspection. What to do...

[GlennM]

Ziljoe, for the benefit of the forum, can you ppst a marked up directional map to show the modified path and crossing point in relation to other known reference points?  It would help to move the conversational thread in that direction.

Your comment about hand carrying wood is a practical solution without the need for bags etc. In retrospect, they risked their lives for it. If it is the cold they want to fend off in the tent, there are friendlier ways to conserve heat.

The manipulation of the tent is a confounding variable. I am convinced that the arrangement of materials within the tent does not support conspirators moving the tent and then slashing it in a cloak and,dagger style.

[OLD JEDI 72]

I have been toying with the idea that 7 of the 9 descended the slope as a group in darkness walking  side by side. They were calling out for the two Yuris who previously went on an errand and did not return as expected. Those 7, having shed their heavy garments in advance of bed time, were inadequately dressed for an extended trek, but perhaps they figured the Yuris would be somewhere between woods and tent. If so, then all of them would be back in the tent relatively quickly That did not happen.

 A switched on flashlight on the third rock outcrop suggests they, the rescuers from the tent, made this descent at night. Too, since they did not find the two Yuris enroute, they descended all the way to the tree line, perhaps drawn to the cedar by flames, the glow of a fire or intuition. This distance from the tent was further than any thought they would go. Still, if it was to be a matter of helping friends limp back to camp, all would be well enough.

 What they found surely must have shocked and saddened them. The Yuris had gotten wet and chilled. Either the Yuris (whom I suspect) or the rescuers made a fire but it was insufficient. It is additionally possible that in order to make an even larger fire, someone climbed the cedar resulting in a fall and additional injury. Perhaps the 7 from the tent found the Yuri's dead or nearly so. I suspect at least one had succumbed because of the livor mortis location on the corpse when found by later rescue/recovery efforts. He had been turned over when placed by the tree trunk. Tending a Yuri still alive came at the expense of body heat for all. When both had expired, the bodies were undressed for survival of the others and prominently placed respectfully for retrieval at a later date.

From the map posted earlier on this thread, Igor, Rustem and Zina were not oriented to the tent, but rather to the flashlight, perhaps to gather it by following steps already made in snow. Then, back to the tent. Being inadequately clothed plus facing subfreezing temperatures and a headwind, their strength failed them, each falling a bit further on than the last.

The others sought protection from the wind in a ravine...

Since none returned to the tent, it got torn up by the weather.

I'm not sure why people would go to gather wood dressed the way they were. Seems illogical. However, it's a good observation about the orientation of the last 3 in regards to the flashlight. It's like they kept to its right on a straight line. There's also a good photo on the same page the OP linked of the column footprints. It seems some large person with shoes overlapped with the ones in front showing "he" was following. On a side note and on that same page, why did Igor throw his jacket down? And the flashlight that worked, what's up with that? It had no snow atop it, only a bit gathered on the sides.

[Ziljoe]

Sorry GlennM, I didn't mean they carry a log each in their hands but rather the day they leave the labaz , if they intended to camp on the exposed slope , then adding a log to each of their packs would not be much of a burden.

 Interestingly, you have sparked another thought , it's recorded that the ski boots at the labaz were Igor's, in the boots were frozen socks. To me , this implies Igor got his feet wet at some point during the construction of the labaz. If the socks were wet the night before, he would have dried them with the stove ?. Just an observation that something may have started the day badly, having reached the ridge , Igor may have found to his regret that he could not continue without his ski boots as he had maybe wrongfully assumed..

Orgional anti clock wise direction to Ortoten and back to labaz


A possibile modified route on reaction to the new snow on the slopes .



I'm not even sure why they are attempting the ridges , in some ways it might have been easier to go through the forests and return the same direction using the previous camp sites with prepared wood and a known path?

I have just read that their maps were poor so , they also might have been tapped on the ridge due to poor visibility and the icy fields at the stone ridges before the fresh snow came to be on the slope. The fresh snow that came to be present of 30cm or so in order for the raised footprints to form and then be blown away.

[GlennM]

Thanks Ziljoe for the duagrams. A picture is worth a thousand..
At first I thought it wrong to have the labaz off of the main route. I was not there. Maybe the location of the labaz was justified and not all that inconvenient.

I wonder if during the uphill relay hiking in deep snow by the Auspyra, Igor didnt step into a stream puddle and got the the boots wet. Not drying them out is counterintuitive since they could make fire.  It would be a mean prank to wet his socks.


Going back to the Yuris in the woods, for Jedi, If the goal was to hustle down to the woods and grab an armload or a sackful of wood, I don't think anyone is going to dismantle the tent for skis. Valenkis barely work on snow , ice and rock. Since the Yuris were found stripped, how they were dressed is debatable.  My idea is that things complicated for them, in this scenario, because of wetness exacerbated by cold. As Ziljoe comments, bringing wood from the labaz area is superior to going to the cedar later on. In fact, leaving the group for any distance or time is foolish in my opinion, calls of Nature excepted.

Personally, I have no use for conspiracies. I actually favor natural causes. No matter the theory one supports, there are things illogical, inconsistent and inflated in the retelling.

[Ziljoe]

Here's the thing, valenkis or whatever the boots that the searchers used didn't work , there was a request to call off the search as the searchers were having accidents on the lower part of the slope , one I believe quite serious and had to be taken for medical care. This alone should tell us something, if searchers were falling and getting injured during daylight with better equipment, then there's a lot of scope that some injuries to the hikers were caused on that slope or winter environment.

[GlennM]

The circular routes have merit if they permit easier touring. I equate that with being able to ski as opposed to walking. Skirting the forest on skis might have worked well,  judging from photos. They lost a day, so not losing another is desirable.
A good supposition Ziljoe.

[OLD JEDI 72]

Glenn, you can't have it both ways. You're now saying they "hustled" out for some firewood when the footprints clearly show no one hustled anywhere, and by your own observation. Ziljoe, the sentence you used "something may have started the day badly" is imho one hell of an understatement.

[Ziljoe]

OJ 72, it's just hypothetical sharing of thoughts about" what do the footprints say" or not say and trying to work a model that might fit.

I had mused about a wolverine maybe snatching the camera case , something of value and the group trying to heard it by walking abreast and out flanking the beast. Initially there was no thought of anything but regaining the camera but things escalated and they found themselves in a bad situation. Explanation for the tent being flattened and ripped could be the centre ski pole being under tension from the wind and eventually breaking and cutting through the tent, the scratches from the inside could be just this.

So, what do the footsteps of prints  say ? To me , It says there was 20-30cm of soft snow at the time of the incident , in the alleged last 4 photos of the hike , there is no sign of such soft snow . The raised footprints phenomenon also indicates a rise in temperature . The footprints don't seem to show the presence of any outsiders and the group descended side by side for the most part , diverging once and then coming back together, this might suggest a search for something also. It also tells that they moved away from the tent towards the ravine in socks and boots.

I hadn't noticed before as I thought noone had cigarettes but one of them had a packet, I've thought that maybe one of them sneaked away for a quick puff and got into trouble on the slope . Just thoughts and observations.

[OLD JEDI 72]

Or maybe two guys pissing "disrupted" Igor?

[OLD JEDI 72]

I mean right outside the tent! I was in charge! I'll throw my coat out and watch you think you can survive on your own!

[GlennM]

Please remember Jedi, nobody has the book of right answers. What gets said and how it gets said plays a big part in who burns out as a contributor.

My recent musing of Yuris fetching wood vs carrying it from the previous day allows interested contributors to imagine whether or not it explains anything. Attacking the contributor instead the idea is misdirected energy. We appreciate thoughtful replies and easily recognize them.

I like the Yuris in the woods as an impetus for others to find them. On the other if everyone carried some wood from the labaz, the fate of the Yuris at the cedar is owing to something else.

 

[SURI]

I like the Yuris in the woods as an impetus for others to find them. On the other if everyone carried some wood from the labaz, the fate of the Yuris at the cedar is owing to something else.

Appropriately  written. The fate of the Yuris at the cedar is owing to something else. Without the Yuris, no one would end up in the forest. Last in the tent, first at the cedar.

[OLD JEDI 72]

Please remember Jedi, nobody has the book of right answers. What gets said and how it gets said plays a big part in who burns out as a contributor.

My recent musing of Yuris fetching wood vs carrying it from the previous day allows interested contributors to imagine whether or not it explains anything. Attacking the contributor instead the idea is misdirected energy. We appreciate thoughtful replies and easily recognize them.

I like the Yuris in the woods as an impetus for others to find them. On the other if everyone carried some wood from the labaz, the fate of the Yuris at the cedar is owing to something else.

I wasn't attacking anyone, just contributing. If I was attacking someone I'd be like "Glenn, are you trying to write a novel when you obsess over this case?"  But I'm not, so there.