July 12, 2025, 02:45:12 PM
Dyatlov Pass Forum

Author Topic: So I asked AI about the topic...  (Read 106 times)

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July 10, 2025, 04:32:59 AM
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brightyellow


I discussed various pages about the Dyatlov Pass with my browser's AI assistant (Copilot) and asked it which theory was the most plausible. Here's the result:

🥇 1. Localized Snow Cave Collapse (Ravine Victims)
Plausibility: High

This theory proposes that the three most severely injured hikers died when a snow shelter or overhanging snow mass collapsed in the ravine.

✅ Why it fits:

Explains massive internal trauma without external wounds.

Victims were found under deep snow in a ravine.

No need for a full avalanche.

🔍 Sources:

Louhi et al. (2024)

WAB critique

🧠 Verdict: The most forensically consistent explanation for the ravine deaths. Likely part of a multi-stage tragedy.

🥈 2. Katabatic Wind
Plausibility: Moderate–High

A sudden, powerful downslope wind may have forced the hikers to flee the tent in fear of burial or collapse.

✅ Why it fits:

Explains sudden evacuation.

No avalanche traces required.

Documented in polar regions.

🔍 Sources:

Borzenkov Analysis

Swedish-Russian Expedition 2019: Field conditions confirmed the plausibility of extreme wind exposure and psychological stress.

🧠 Verdict: A strong candidate for the initial panic. May have triggered the chain of events.

🥉 3. Slab Avalanche (ETH Zurich Model & Popovnin’s Interpretation)
Plausibility: Moderate

ETH Zurich’s 2021 simulation (Gaume & Puzrin) and glaciologist Victor Popovnin’s 2020 report both argue that a small slab avalanche could have struck the tent, causing injuries and panic.

✅ Scientific merit:

ETH model shows how a small, delayed slab could exert enough force to injure.

Popovnin supports the idea of a localized snow slab based on slope angle and snow accumulation.

❌ But:

No physical avalanche traces: no crown fracture, no displaced snow, no debris field.

Only 15–20 cm of snow found on the tent.

No depth hoar layer observed (Sogrin, 1959 search team).

No signs of air displacement damage to the tent.

Popovnin’s assumptions (e.g. slope angle, snow density) are challenged by WAB (PRO_hogiy), who argues they don’t match the real 1959 terrain or snowpack.

🧠 Verdict: While both Popovnin and ETH offer technically plausible models, they rely on speculative input data. As WAB puts it, “a model without real-world traces is a thought experiment, not a reconstruction.”

🔗 Sources:

ETH Study (Gaume & Puzrin, 2021)

Popovnin’s Glaciological Report

WAB critique on Taina.li forum

4. Cold-Induced Disorientation / Hypothermia
Plausibility: Moderate

Hypothermia can cause paradoxical undressing and irrational behavior.

✅ Fits:

Some hikers were undressed.

Known physiological response.

❌ Doesn’t explain:

Why they left the tent.

Severe trauma in ravine victims.

🧠 Verdict: Likely a contributing factor, not the root cause.

5. Infrasound (Kármán Vortex Street)
Plausibility: Low–Moderate

Low-frequency sound waves may have triggered panic.

✅ Fits:

Explains irrational behavior.

❌ But:

No direct evidence.

Highly speculative.

🧠 Verdict: Interesting, but lacks empirical support.

6. Military Testing / Parachute Mines
Plausibility: Low–Moderate

The group may have been caught in secret weapons tests.

✅ Fits:

Radiation on clothing.

Strange discoloration of bodies.

❌ But:

Radiation levels not extreme.

No blast injuries.

No official records.

🧠 Verdict: Intriguing, but speculative.

7. Internal Conflict / Accident
Plausibility: Low

A fight or accident among the group.

❌ Doesn’t fit:

No signs of struggle.

Injuries too severe.

🧠 Verdict: Unlikely.

8. Mansi Attack
Plausibility: Very Low

Early Soviet suspicion of local Mansi people.

❌ Doesn’t fit:

No motive.

No evidence of violence.

🧠 Verdict: Discredited.

🧭 Final Thoughts: Which Theory Holds Up?
After reviewing forensic data, expert critiques, and field-based insights, the most plausible explanation is a multi-stage scenario:

Katabatic wind or fear of burial prompts evacuation.

Exposure and disorientation lead to separation.

Snow cave collapse causes fatal injuries in the ravine.

The ETH slab avalanche model is scientifically impressive—but as Popovnin and WAB emphasize, it lacks real-world traces. The 2019 Swedish-Russian expedition further confirmed that the terrain and snowpack conditions did not support a slab avalanche scenario, but did highlight the psychological and physical toll of the environment.

“Even the best model cannot reconstruct reality if its input data are speculative.” — WAB (PRO_hogiy)

🔗 Key Sources
Popovnin’s Glaciological Report (2020) Supports the slab avalanche theory but is challenged by WAB for relying on generalized assumptions. 📄 https://dyatlovpass.com/popovnin

WAB (PRO_hogiy) Critique on Taina.li Forum Detailed rebuttal of the ETH and Popovnin avalanche models, emphasizing terrain-specific inconsistencies. 💬 https://taina.li/forum/index.php?topic=12445.msg816692#msg816692

ETH Avalanche Study (Gaume & Puzrin, 2021) Scientific simulation proposing a delayed slab avalanche as the cause of the incident. 📘 https://www.nature.com/articles/s43247-020-00081-8.pdf

Louhi et al. (2024): Avalanche Critique Comprehensive forensic and physical critique of the ETH model and avalanche hypothesis. ❄️ https://dyatlovpass.com/louhi-dmitrievskaya-litvinova-ankudinov

Borzenkov’s Analysis Field-based critique of ETH assumptions; emphasizes that observed avalanches occurred in different terrain. 🧭 https://dyatlovpass.com/borzenkov

Swedish-Russian Dyatlov Expedition (2019) Field expedition that recreated the route and conditions; supports katabatic wind and psychological stress as key factors. 🏕️ https://dyatlovpass.com/swedish-russian-expedition-2019

Theory Overview – DyatlovPass.com Comprehensive list of all major theories with pros, cons, and historical context. 📚 https://dyatlovpass.com/theories

 

July 11, 2025, 02:32:29 PM
Reply #1
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ZuriDog


I think AI favors avalanche because it is the generally accepted version.
BUT
None of the search party, who were experienced hikers, nor the investigators - and most importantly , nor the Mansi who knew the area and would be very familiar with the terrain - not one of saw any signs of an avalanche or snow-slide. In none of the telegrams sent is there any mention of the possibility of an avalanche.
The hikers were not injured at the tent, that is evidenced by the footprints, no one is being carried, helped, no one using a support, no one even limping.

The injuries at the ravine were also not caused by snow-fall, none of the hikers died of suffocation, if they had been buried by enough snow to crush ribs, you'd expect at least one of them to have suffocated. Zolotarev was alive for up to an hour, Tibo - three to four hours.

So this snow-slide at the slope, if it even happened, was not significant enough to abandon the tent.
The hikers that were found heading back towards the tent - they were trying to return to safety, not to a buried tent.

This is why I think something made them temporarily leave the tent, but not abandon it.
Their state of dress, the fact that they took very little with them - indicates they responded to an event, and would return to the tent as soon as possible.

In my theory, this event is Tibo's injury when he fell from the cedar tree while gathering wood with Zolotarev.
 

Today at 08:53:19 AM
Reply #2
Online

brightyellow


The injuries at the ravine were also not caused by snow-fall, none of the hikers died of suffocation, if they had been buried by enough snow to crush ribs, you'd expect at least one of them to have suffocated. Zolotarev was alive for up to an hour, Tibo - three to four hours.

Yes! That is actually a very good counterargument.