Why not go back inside?

[amashilu]

In the immediate aftermath of leaving the tent, the hikers could not go back inside for any reason. Whatever the danger was, it seems clear that it was so deadly, they could not even stick a hand inside to feel for a boot.

If there had been a snow slab, they probably would have waited for it to stop, and then dug the tent out. There were nine of them, after all, not one or two. That's a lot of diggers.

So what are the possible reasons they could not even reach inside the tent?

1) Something deadly was inside (poison, plasma ball, other?)
2) The tent had been rendered inaccessible (i.e. an avalanche)
3) A third party with a weapon

[GlennM]

Consider that once out of the tent they were at the mercy of the weather.If the weather was blowing a gale, they were going to get rapidly get cold. Since the tent was down, there is no possibility to use the stove in or out of the tent. There is insufficient wood to make a fire outside the tent. Further, if they cut the tent for shawls, everything within would scatter down the slope. Their smartest move is to temporarily leave the area, using flashlights for reference, and make for the woods and a fire.It is clear that they intended to return later to rescue their disabled frien. Once at the treeline, they could keep together, or divide up. One cohort makes a fire, another preps a snow cave. I imagine all this is happening in blizzard conditions.

[amashilu]

It is clear that they intended to return later to rescue their disabled frien.

Intriguing sentence. Who was the disabled friend?

[SURI]

So what are the possible reasons they could not even reach inside the tent?

1) Something deadly was inside (poison, plasma ball, other?)
2) The tent had been rendered inaccessible (i.e. an avalanche)
3) A third party with a weapon

I like quiz questions and I wouldn't choose a single option here.

[amashilu]

I like quiz questions and I wouldn't choose a single option here.

Please share what option you would like to add here.

[ahabmyth]

Whatever reason for the tents demise looking at it would you go back in.
Maybe the aliens decided to stay a while.
So yeah I'd go with the plasma ball that they were kicking around.  (I DID TELL YOU).

[ahabmyth]

Maybe something simple like a wind change direction blowing inside the tent after it ripped. We know there were many times it did. Igor wanted a new one. Its hard to say how big any of the rips were or how many , but sufficient to leave the tent for a den (to be made near the treeline ).

[SURI]

The advantage of the threat was the element of surprise. While it was in the tent, it did not make itself known. It only became dangerous outside the tent.

[amashilu]

The advantage of the threat was the element of surprise. While it was in the tent, it did not make itself known. It only became dangerous outside the tent.

Can you explain what the threat was?

[OLD JEDI 72]

What would make people cut out of the tent destroying their shelter, appear to walk calmly, and take nothing with them? Who knows, but I feel it was "warm" in the sense it was above 20 Fahrenheit when whatever happened, happened. So there was no sense of urgency as these were macho Soviets who probably bragged of "pi##ing ice water" lol. Then I think it dropped to 30 below zero extremely fast. Weather reports show it. That would be an approx 50 degree temperture drop in minutes.

[GlennM]

Amashilu, I see the replies are probably what you were expecting. Personally, I discount the idea that they were drawn out by deception, threat or to rescue one or more of their number. I do believe they were forced out by a compelling force. That force could be a chemical fire from celluloid film (kindling for stove and camp fires), or a partial collapse of the tent in a slab slip. It could be an animal. What I feel is central to their exit is that the air was insufficient and unbreathable. To restore it, more time was needed than the conditions would permit. They could have sliced up the tent for shawls, but that would end the expedition. They could have all tried to dig the tent out of snow, but if loosening snow only brought more down then it would be better to wait for better weather somewhere out of the weather and with a fire. I personally favor the partial collapse of the tent as a suffocation hazard. I also think any reasonable person would try to clear the snow away as a first response. Failing this and also being unable to get back to anyone's personal items, the response was to descend to the forest for a brief retreat and then hustle back to the tent. They underestimated the Russian Winter, but were never stupid in their decisions or actions.

[amashilu]

Amashilu, I see the replies are probably what you were expecting. Personally, I discount the idea that they were drawn out by deception, threat or to rescue one or more of their number. I do believe they were forced out by a compelling force. That force could be a chemical fire from celluloid film (kindling for stove and camp fires), or a partial collapse of the tent in a slab slip. It could be an animal. What I feel is central to their exit is that the air was insufficient and unbreathable. To restore it, more time was needed than the conditions would permit. They could have sliced up the tent for shawls, but that would end the expedition. They could have all tried to dig the tent out of snow, but if loosening snow only brought more down then it would be better to wait for better weather somewhere out of the weather and with a fire. I personally favor the partial collapse of the tent as a suffocation hazard. I also think any reasonable person would try to clear the snow away as a first response. Failing this and also being unable to get back to anyone's personal items, the response was to descend to the forest for a brief retreat and then hustle back to the tent. They underestimated the Russian Winter, but were never stupid in their decisions or actions.

Thinking about Rustem (again), he left the tent so fast, he did not stop for his other boot. That is so significant; you could be right about the suddenly unbreathable air.

[sarapuk]

The answer to that question can only be answered if we know the answer to the question as to why they fled the tent in the first place.

[amashilu]

The answer to that question can only be answered if we know the answer to the question as to why they fled the tent in the first place.

Yes, but if it was a breathing-type problem, such as something poisonous in the air inside the tent, would you at least try to cover your mouth and nose and stick your hand inside the cut hole to grab a couple of boots before going downhill?

[GlennM]

The answer to that question can only be answered if we know the answer to the question as to why they fled the tent in the first place.

Yes, but if it was a breathing-type problem, such as something poisonous in the air inside the tent, would you at least try to cover your mouth and nose and stick your hand inside the cut hole to grab a couple of boots before going downhill?

I can not rule out that the attempt wasn't made. I do believe that either they thought it unnecessary at the time, or they thought it would complicate their decision to leave the area. Valenki would probably be OK, unless wetted in water. Valenki might have been safer over rock and ice than boots owing to slip/fall hazards. Finally, I can imagine that as " toughies", they thought retreating to the woods was no big deal. They could get there make fire and emergency shelter. When conditions improved at sun up, they could go back eat, repair the damage and complete their hike. I think what defeated them was unexpected running water and the subsequent injuries and hypothermia.

[sarapuk]

The answer to that question can only be answered if we know the answer to the question as to why they fled the tent in the first place.

Yes, but if it was a breathing-type problem, such as something poisonous in the air inside the tent, would you at least try to cover your mouth and nose and stick your hand inside the cut hole to grab a couple of boots before going downhill?

They would breathe clearer air outside the tent so would have plenty of time to gather their protective clothing etc. But they didn't, so its highly unlikely that it was a poisonous air issue.

[amashilu]

They would breathe clearer air outside the tent so would have plenty of time to gather their protective clothing etc. But they didn't, so it's highly unlikely that it was a poisonous air issue.

I agree. I don't think it was a poisonous air issue inside the tent.

[OLD JEDI 72]

The answer to that question can only be answered if we know the answer to the question as to why they fled the tent in the first place.

Yes, but if it was a breathing-type problem, such as something poisonous in the air inside the tent, would you at least try to cover your mouth and nose and stick your hand inside the cut hole to grab a couple of boots before going downhill?

They would breathe clearer air outside the tent so would have plenty of time to gather their protective clothing etc. But they didn't, so its highly unlikely that it was a poisonous air issue.

Like rocket fuel? I'm not trying to be crass, but I have mentioned the B.O thing. When whatever, happened they were getting undressed, taking shoes and socks off and when was the last time they showered? I have a strong sense that the tent was absolutely minging.

[Ziljoe]

There is a possible item that could cause dangerous gases , vision , sight irritation and a potential health emergency along with some injuries reported.

That is the flare gun or rocket. I am sure I read one  of the hikers was into making rockets or fireworks and it was maybe one of the two Yuri's . The burns on Yuri's hand could be from holding the flare and accidentally setting it off , or some other type of home made device.

From AI

AI Overview


+7
Yes, looking directly at a flare at close range can potentially damage your eyes. Flares are very bright and can cause temporary or even permanent damage if viewed for too long or from too close.
Here's why:
High intensity light:
Flares produce intense light and heat, which can overwhelm the eye's natural protection mechanisms.
Potential for burns:
The heat from a flare can cause burns on the cornea or even the retina.
"Arc eye" or "welder's flash":
Exposure to intense light sources like flares can cause "arc eye" or "welder's flash," leading to pain, tearing, sensitivity to light, and even blurred vision.
Retinal damage:
In extreme cases, the intense light can damage the retina, potentially causing permanent vision loss.

If it went off inside a tent.

If a flare gun were to go off inside a tent, it could cause severe eye damage. The intense light and heat from the flare could cause immediate and potentially permanent blindness, as well as flash burns to the eyes and surrounding tissue. The blast itself could also cause eye trauma, including ruptured eyeballs or detached retinas.
Here's a more detailed breakdown:
Flash Burns:
The intense heat from a flare can cause burns to the delicate tissues of the eye and eyelids.
Photokeratitis:
This is a painful condition caused by damage to the cornea (the clear front part of the eye) from ultraviolet radiation. It can cause intense pain, light sensitivity, and blurred vision.
Retinal Damage:
The intense light can damage the retina (the light-sensitive layer at the back of the eye), potentially leading to vision loss or blindness.

Potential problems from inhaling the gases


 perchlorate in flare guns can be toxic if inhaled. Inhalation of perchlorate, especially in high concentrations, can cause various health issues, including irritation of the respiratory tract, disruption of oxygen transport in the blood, and, in severe cases, potentially fatal complications.
Here's a more detailed explanation:
Health Effects of Perchlorate Inhalation:
Irritation:
Breathing in perchlorate can irritate the nose, throat, and respiratory tract, leading to coughing and wheezing.
Methemoglobinemia:
High doses of perchlorate can interfere with the blood's ability to carry oxygen, causing methemoglobinemia. This condition can result in fatigue, dizziness, cyanosis (a bluish tint to the skin and lips), and in severe cases, respiratory failure or death.


We have a reason to cut the tent, a reason for poor sight , some explanation for some burns and injuries and perhaps a reason to find a stream bed .

[ahabmyth]

Possibly giving away the more exotic excuses for leaving the tent ,many people have suggested that because of the strides in the snow leading away from the tent, that it wasn't an horrific reason for doing so.

So we are indeed left pondering exactly what and why. Unless you believe in the paranormal (and I certainly do), the dreaded slab slide or other more exotic things we are indeed narrowing choices (common sense but mundane ones )I'm afraid.


So its back to the obvious" the stove". Of all the ideas of what "could" have happened this one stands out - heat. Touching -30deg is a good assumption to choose this idea no other plausible idea I have seen involves good old heat. Yes warmth and the stove comes in 1st 2nd 3rd. I did a write up a few days ago regarding this as plausible , but here it is again.  Stove setup with what little wood they had and anything that would burn. Either faulty setup or "missing parts" eg a set screw or bolt. Extremely windy night, the tent rocking and slowly the exhaust pipe comes slightly undone, enough to leak its deadly fumes onto the sleeping hikers. Endgame - somebody wakes up coughing and spluttering, most likely vomiting  and waking the others who also have the identical effects and not being able to exit the tent, you got it, slashed open the tent in the quest of exiting as fast as possible. With their heads spinning from hellish headaches and the tent in pieces and virtually being blown away the decision is made to abandon the tent etc etc. In our last scenario the searchers finding the tent, some light -fingered person decides he will pinch the stove, everything cleaned and back in its box. Too late he is caught, and its off to the gulag for you my friend. 

The overall reason for leaving the tent was just the fact that it was freezing inside and theres no way they could repair it under the circumstances. The tent was shredded with the wind blowing into them and the fact of sickness etc from the Carbon Dioxide poisoning.

Dont eat the yellow snow.
Dont forget the tent was a mere    1metre tall    . So suspending the stove from the middle of the tent must have been a nightmare and even more when it was lit. No wonder some people refused to sleep under it. The packing/carrying the the stove has me baffled .I read somewhere that the pipes were placed in the stove itself. If the tent/half was 2.0mtrs and say the stove was approx 15" x 24"( so 1.5mtr + outside 1.5 = 3mtrs of pipe. This was enough for 1 hiker to carry, who did, never seen any photos
.
Diagram shows 4 lengths but could be more/less .So pipes joined with asbestos in each joint ( deadly as we now know ) but whatever, and in this ferocious storm with the tent being blown back and forth and those pipes will not come loose --yeah sure. And who was to say in that storm that the stove pipes where put together properly.          There is our answer simple Carbon Monoxide poisoning.
 

[OLD JEDI 72]

There is a possible item that could cause dangerous gases , vision , sight irritation and a potential health emergency along with some injuries reported.

That is the flare gun or rocket. I am sure I read one  of the hikers was into making rockets or fireworks and it was maybe one of the two Yuri's . The burns on Yuri's hand could be from holding the flare and accidentally setting it off , or some other type of home made device.

From AI

AI Overview

+7
Yes, looking directly at a flare at close range can potentially damage your eyes. Flares are very bright and can cause temporary or even permanent damage if viewed for too long or from too close.
Here's why:
High intensity light:
Flares produce intense light and heat, which can overwhelm the eye's natural protection mechanisms.
Potential for burns:
The heat from a flare can cause burns on the cornea or even the retina.
"Arc eye" or "welder's flash":
Exposure to intense light sources like flares can cause "arc eye" or "welder's flash," leading to pain, tearing, sensitivity to light, and even blurred vision.
Retinal damage:
In extreme cases, the intense light can damage the retina, potentially causing permanent vision loss.

If it went off inside a tent.

If a flare gun were to go off inside a tent, it could cause severe eye damage. The intense light and heat from the flare could cause immediate and potentially permanent blindness, as well as flash burns to the eyes and surrounding tissue. The blast itself could also cause eye trauma, including ruptured eyeballs or detached retinas.
Here's a more detailed breakdown:
Flash Burns:
The intense heat from a flare can cause burns to the delicate tissues of the eye and eyelids.
Photokeratitis:
This is a painful condition caused by damage to the cornea (the clear front part of the eye) from ultraviolet radiation. It can cause intense pain, light sensitivity, and blurred vision.
Retinal Damage:
The intense light can damage the retina (the light-sensitive layer at the back of the eye), potentially leading to vision loss or blindness.

Potential problems from inhaling the gases


 perchlorate in flare guns can be toxic if inhaled. Inhalation of perchlorate, especially in high concentrations, can cause various health issues, including irritation of the respiratory tract, disruption of oxygen transport in the blood, and, in severe cases, potentially fatal complications.
Here's a more detailed explanation:
Health Effects of Perchlorate Inhalation:
Irritation:
Breathing in perchlorate can irritate the nose, throat, and respiratory tract, leading to coughing and wheezing.
Methemoglobinemia:
High doses of perchlorate can interfere with the blood's ability to carry oxygen, causing methemoglobinemia. This condition can result in fatigue, dizziness, cyanosis (a bluish tint to the skin and lips), and in severe cases, respiratory failure or death.


We have a reason to cut the tent, a reason for poor sight , some explanation for some burns and injuries and perhaps a reason to find a stream bed .

Wow, I never thought you would use AI. A flare gun never occurred to me. I don't see any scorch marks on the tent, but that could be explained by the large gaping holes.

[Ziljoe]

OJ It was just a thought I had a while ago . Having googled the chemicals in flare rockets , I then Googled the dangers to the human body. The AI option as displayed on Google,gave a number of scenarios with evidence based links . I have displayed that it is AI and not me writing.

It was useful in this scenario to save posting a wealth of information that may get too detailed from quite tedious health and safety manuals.

Falcon reminded me and amashila asked the question.

Yuri has the burnt hand, ( stick flares do cause injuries). It may be possible it went off accidentally and he cut the tent in the first instance to throw it out a small cut hole , as the smoke and gases were still inside the concentration would start to take effect on the hiker's. Vision damaged , desperate for air someone cut a bigger hole , others at the north end of the tent ,stand up pulling the tension on the ropes and breaking them.

Having exited the tent , with vision compromised and lungs and throats burning , running water was sought . Walking in a line supporting eachother was the only way down the slope , those with the best vision at the outer edges of the line.

The flare , rocket or hand held , was to be used at night by the hikers to take a magical night photo . They were preparing the cameras and going to use the tripod . Some were starting to get dressed to go outside to get ready , but the flare went off as they were preparing.

Or .....it was an avalanche... :o)

[OLD JEDI 72]

I read something similar on either here or the main site about the film in the canisters causing the same kind gas cloud. The problem imo with that is there would be no reason to run barefoot or whatever a mile down to a stream to wash your face. Snow was everywhere to use for that, I would think some kind of rocket booster spewing out the same gasses on a much larger scale with fiery chunks slamming the ground around them would be more likely to cause a panic of that magnitude.

[Ziljoe]

All a possibility, I believe it was mentioned on the forum by axelrod about the film canister.

Snow wouldn't be ideal as you can't really drink it but it's a hypothetical theory with the flare.

[ahabmyth]

After exiting the tent due to the poisonous fumes the group compose themselves. Looking at the tent ,the slashes were made on the wrong side with the other side billowing and threatening to rip itself apart. The group dazed and groggy decide that it cant be mended in this weather and so a vote is for the treeline which cant be far away, so they will build a den and spend the night there waiting till morning to fix the tent.
A few of the members put the embers of the dying fire out and still groggy with the others looking on dismantle the already loose stove and throw it in a pile much to Igors dismay. Even more dismayed is Yuri who burnt his hand on one of the pipes and is shoveling snow onto his hand.
The treeline it is ,and the still stunned group make their way towards their inevitable demise.

To be continued.

[ahabmyth]

After deciding the best idea is to reach the tree line to get out of the heat sapping wind and comeback in the morning to fix the tent ,the group as has been mentioned a few times now start marching down the mountain not in single file which is fairly normal but across. They apparently also divided up and then came back together nearer to the cedar. I have read this a few times but does anyone have any better ideas as to why they travelled down this way (and more I may say suffering some very nasty cuts and bruises etc etc).

Thinking on this map 1,2 and 3 means how bad Korumniki is. Black dot  - found something. The big red V the hikers splitting up and re-joining. A,C,K obvious dead three. 70mtrs to the den or RAV4. (Thought it was a tributary of the Lozva ).

To be continued.

 

[Ziljoe]

After deciding the best idea is to reach the tree line to get out of the heat sapping wind and comeback in the morning to fix the tent ,the group as has been mentioned a few times now start marching down the mountain not in single file which is fairly normal but across. They apparently also divided up and then came back together nearer to the cedar. I have read this a few times but does anyone have any better ideas as to why they travelled down this way (and more I may say suffering some very nasty cuts and bruises etc etc).

Thinking on this map 1,2 and 3 means how bad Korumniki is. Black dot  - found something. The big red V the hikers splitting up and re-joining. A,C,K obvious dead three. 70mtrs to the den or RAV4. (Thought it was a tributary of the Lozva ).

To be continued.

 

Possible suggestions put forward for walking in a line was stability for poor terrain, poor vision of the hikers ,  to avoid being pushed into each other in a avalanche, searching for something on the slope, or someone with a gun making them walk in front.

1,2 and 3 are the first ridges I believe. Black dot I think is the second flashlight, there 3 drawings similar to this. Along from the dot is where the Mansi hunting stand is supposed to be. The red lines and v with hash marks are the probing areas , some areas in the red were done up to 3 times at about 10,000 probes per searcher per day . The 70 meters is to the tree where the two Yuri's were found. The ravine 4 and den had not yet been found .

You may be correct about the 70 meters being to the stream or treeline.

By the 9th of march the slope had become and ice bed and the searchers were falling , one soldier was hurt badly and wasn't moving . A request had been put in to call off the search until April.

[ahabmyth]

On the map just below where the  flashlight was found there is a a feint pencil line going a cross - wish there was a legend. Slightly below that a series of circles x2 across (no this is not a crossword puzzle ) could this be an isolated strip of trees ???.

Absolutely no doubt the group intended to go back to the tent" in the dark "looking for the torchlights, just why did nobody check the lights were operational, and in leaving the lights "on" did they assume the "overwhelming force" would have been gone by then.

I wish "the government had never penned the name "Overwhelming Force" as the name dosnt appear to incorporate a natural solution.

[sarapuk]

In the immediate aftermath of leaving the tent, the hikers could not go back inside for any reason. Whatever the danger was, it seems clear that it was so deadly, they could not even stick a hand inside to feel for a boot.

If there had been a snow slab, they probably would have waited for it to stop, and then dug the tent out. There were nine of them, after all, not one or two. That's a lot of diggers.

So what are the possible reasons they could not even reach inside the tent?

1) Something deadly was inside (poison, plasma ball, other?)
2) The tent had been rendered inaccessible (i.e. an avalanche)
3) A third party with a weapon

A question that has been framed in various ways on this site over the years.

[ahabmyth]

In the immediate aftermath of leaving the tent, the hikers could not go back inside for any reason. Whatever the danger was, it seems clear that it was so deadly, they could not even stick a hand inside to feel for a boot.

If there had been a snow slab, they probably would have waited for it to stop, and then dug the tent out. There were nine of them, after all, not one or two. That's a lot of diggers.

So what are the possible reasons they could not even reach inside the tent?

1) Something deadly was inside (poison, plasma ball, other?)
2) The tent had been rendered inaccessible (i.e. an avalanche)
3) A third party with a weapon

A question that has been framed in various ways on this site over the years.

Answered 1.  2.   3. goto The Cedars on page 3.