I can't even think of setting up a labaz here

[Teddy]

Teddy, thank you for your scholarship. I imagine this change has an impact on your theory too. There is much to consider. GlennM.

No, it is just too much focus on a sentence. It has nothing to do with anything.

[Axelrod]

Because you end up with entries like:
1.26.59
I can't, although I tried.
Nick Thibeaux

For a long time, I couldn't understand the meaning of this phrase. Until I read Krivonischenko's previous entry, where Rustik played the mandolin. Then I immediately realized that Thibeaux had tried and failed to play the mandolin! But why did he write only about that in the diary?

Slobodin's diary is also very strange. Although, perhaps these strange entries about secluded objects reflect their strange place in life and the conditions of the expedition, and that's what ultimately happened.

[amashilu]

For a long time, I couldn't understand the meaning of this phrase. Until I read Krivonischenko's previous entry, where Rustik played the mandolin. Then I immediately realized that Thibeaux had tried and failed to play the mandolin! But why did he write only about that in the diary?

I recall reading somewhere that Thibeaux found writing in the group diary to be uncomfortable and that he had claimed he couldn't do it. When it was his turn, he wrote "I can't, although I tried.-- Nick Thibeaux."

His second turn, 3 days later, gives us this:

"1.29.59
Second day of our hike. We made our way from the Lozva river to the Auspiya river. We walked along a Mansi trail. The weather is –13°C. The wind is weak. We often find ice on the Lozva river. That's all.
Nick Thibeaux
P.S. Witless writing in two days!"

I think that's all it means: Writing in the group diary makes him feel self-conscious.

[GlennM]

I interpret the entry and Teddy's correction  in one of these ways.
 " I can't even think of setting up a labaz now" meaning:
1. I'll do it here, but later, before we move on.
2. I'll do it somewhere else (think of it being dug in on 1079 where the tent was found).
3. I'm not going to do it at all because it isn't worth the effort.We can just carry the stuff to Ortoten and back.

If 1. Then the time spent making the cache and breaking camp explains the short distance covered to the tent site on 1079. When the crisis forced them out into the cold, they could head back to the cache or they could move downhill to the woods. If the seeing was poor, following the contour of the land makes sense to me.

If 2. Then the cache was where the tent was found and the tent was in the forest in proximity of Teddy's fallen tree. The hikers took advantage of the forest for securing their tent and making an outdoor fire. A fallen tree resulted in unintended deaths and would arouse suspicion of irresponsible prospecting by geologists. In order to deflect attention from sensitive groundwork with the securing of military/industrial minerals and while protect their " innocence" both the tent and cache were relocated to where they were later discovered by these geologists.

If 3. Well, it was worth the effort and they did it. That point is moot.

I guess that Teddy is right, correcting the translation really does not move the needle toward the truth. I thought it might.For me, it does bring some aspects of their final day(s) into sharper relief.

[Teddy]

Ads a result of this discussion though I am removing the word "here" from my translation because it is misleading. There is no "here" in the Russian original.

It is the same to translate as: "I can't even think of setting up a labaz now."
There is neither "here" nor "now".

I interpret the entry and Teddy's correction  in one of these ways.
 " I can't even think of setting up a labaz now" meaning:

I said there is neither "here" nor "now"

I am no longer following this tread.

[GlennM]

Thank you for your worldwide leadership. Much hinges on what our most learned investigator thinks and says. Now, our guide finds it best to shine the light in another direction. 

I started this thread to know whether the entry in the group diary and the physical location of the cache agree. I read ambiguity in the diary and invited clarification. That clarification could explain the team's progress to their last camp as,well as,its disputed location. Sub rosa, it speaks to motivation. Was the group's relaxed attitude frustrating Igor's attempt to get them all certified? Is that their downfall? The personal diaries even speak to punishments among members.it was literally an uphill battle, but was it a figurative one too? We can not ask the dead to explain themselves. It was clear that the author had reservations regarding the cache What is unclear is whether the remark implies putting it off till later at that place, or puttingnit off till later in another place.

[Ziljoe]

I was asking various translations and I got thus.

The Russian phrase “не приходится” doesn’t mean “I can’t think of”; it means “there’s no point even thinking about it,” so the correct translation is “There is no point even thinking about building a labaz here.”

The diary line is “Об устройстве лабаза даже думать не приходится,” meaning “It’s out of the question to build a labaz here.” A labaz is a raised wooden platform built on trees. They were already above the treeline, so a proper labaz was impossible. The snow pit they dug later is a different structure entirely — a temporary ground‑level cache (снежная яма / тайник), which hikers sometimes loosely called a “labaz,” but i don't think that's what Dyatlov meant in the diary.

I would see it as him concluding that he can't camp here because he can't build a labaz or a storage pit . That seems to be his objective as that's exactly what he writes in the diary .

The weather or bad weather would be expected and part of the fun. From what I've read , they write critique about each other in other diaries too , that's other groups. All seems to fit.

[GlennM]

Ziljoe, that interpretation agrees with my perception of Igor's tone as leader.. The next hurdle is aligning the remark with their location on the route and the location of the in-ground cache. My opinion is that an in ground cache is a temptation for any active digging critters such as wolves or wolverines. Therefore, a lightened load facilitates a dash to Ortoten. I do believe the plan was to make quick work of achieving Otorten. Their camp on 1079 falls short of the mark by quite a bit. I am getting the sense that burying excess supplies was a spontaneous decision prompted by the diffuculties they experienced going up the Auspya.

[Ziljoe]

Glenn, I agree with you on the logistics, but I don’t think the wildlife angle applies here. 
They weren’t storing raw meat — just tins, salt, sugar, oats. Wolves don’t dig for that, and a wolverine can climb any raised labaz anyway. The Mansi used tree‑labazes for big lumps of meat, not for the kind of food the hikers were carrying.

So Igor’s diary line reads to me as purely practical: no trees, no structure, no point carrying extra weight. 
A raised labaz wasn’t possible, and a ground cache wasn’t a predator concern. 
His conclusion was simply: “We can’t build anything here, so we move.”

That fits the tone of the diary and the later snow‑pit cache. 
It looks more like a weight‑management decision than an animal‑protection one — there was no point hauling supplies they weren’t going to use on the 1–3 days before returning along the same path.

[GlennM]

Ziljoe, I can see the advantage in burying supplies to prevent wimdblown scattering,

[Ziljoe]

Glenn, that would be a fair assessment , both are viable. If I remember correctly, I think Zina said the day before Igor mentioned it, in her diary that they would build a labaz.

[GlennM]

Ziljoe, appreciated!  People make choices, circumstances don't. If one takes that line of thougt to an extreme, it challenges us to ponder queations of destiny and freewill.

As you have suggested in another thread, the DPI is an opportunity to peer into the looking glass and know ourselves better.

[sarapuk]

To say you can't imagine something is not really a big deal. The weather was bad. How bad we don't know because we weren't there. But they would know that the weather can be bad at that time of year in that area.

Sarapuk, 
Can you clarify what specific point you’re making in relation to the diary entry or the Feb 1 conditions? 
We all know the weather can be bad — I’m just trying to see how your comment connects. 
Unless you’re suggesting the aliens’ satnav hadn’t been updated.?

I would have thought that what I said was self-explanatory. The reference is obviously to weather conditions. And everyone knows that the weather can be very bad in that area at that time of year. The Dyatlov Group knew that.

[Ziljoe]

I would have thought that what I said was self-explanatory. The reference is obviously to weather conditions. And everyone knows that the weather can be very bad in that area at that time of year. The Dyatlov Group knew that.

So you agree it was the weather that killed them? It's taken a while for to say it.

[sarapuk]

So you agree it was the weather that killed them? It's taken a while for to say it.

No. I'm not suggesting that. But it certainly proves that to leave the tent not properly dressed in those weather conditions was like a suicide mission. They must have been really scared of something to do that.

[GlennM]

They made a logical decision against lifeless abiotic Nature. Nature is a name for number of imperfectly understood compelling forces. I believe there were no human malefactors.Why? The DP9 had too much time and personal freedom to attempt survival,solutions.  I believe they all chose as individuals and as a group to take the risk to complete their trek for the reward of certification.. I believe they would not do it differently if they could do it over.. Call it fate, call it destiny. The reality is that the abiotic world (Natural forces) constantly changes. Living things or biotic organisms adapt or die. Often this is a long process, but it can also happen rapidly, as in this case. Bad things happen to good people. There are people who will never see it that way. It makes the world go around, so to speak.

I do think of just how demoralizing it must have felt when they each realized they were not going to get out of this conundrum. How would any of us react?

[Teddy]

Sarapuk, when answering please do not include the whole conversation in the quote.
There is an "Reply" button underneath the post. That should do it in most cases.

[SURI]

I do think of just how demoralizing it must have felt when they each realized they were not going to get out of this conundrum. How would any of us react?

On a death march, you would probably try to run wherever you could. If Slobodin held back this force for a moment (he paid for it with a cracked skull), it was a chance for both Yuris to escape into the forest and Zina to the tent. But they were eventually caught up too.

[Ziljoe]

No. I'm not suggesting that. But it certainly proves that to leave the tent not properly dressed in those weather conditions was like a suicide mission. They must have been really scared of something to do that.

Yes, so what can we conclude from your statement?

To leave the tent is definitely suicidal, or the equivalent of a potential death or potential survival?

Could we conclude that it was more suicidal, as you put it, to stay at the tent with all the equipment,than to leave and take a chance for survival in the forest.

You are swapping one fear for another so it could only be death to stay at the tent by your logic?

[GlennM]

Suicidal implies intent. Their actions support survival.
Neither they, nor we knew all the facts, then and now.
They expired, we get mired.
They were civilized, as are we.
That's something in common.

[sarapuk]

They made a logical decision against lifeless abiotic Nature.

How can we say if they made a logical decision?! We weren't there, and we have no evidence to point to it being logical or otherwise.

[sarapuk]

No. I'm not suggesting that. But it certainly proves that to leave the tent not properly dressed in those weather conditions was like a suicide mission. They must have been really scared of something to do that.

Yes, so what can we conclude from your statement?

We can conclude that leaving the tent in those conditions was like a suicide mission because something was so bad that they feared for their lives in the tent and just fled, not properly dressed to survive.

[sarapuk]

Suicidal implies intent. Their actions support survival.

I said like a suicide mission, not an actual suicide mission. Their actions may have supported survival at the tent site, but their actions certainly did not support survival by fleeing to the forest, not properly dressed or equipped.

[Ziljoe]

No. I'm not suggesting that. But it certainly proves that to leave the tent not properly dressed in those weather conditions was like a suicide mission. They must have been really scared of something to do that.

Yes, so what can we conclude from your statement?

We can conclude that leaving the tent in those conditions was like a suicide mission because something was so bad that they feared for their lives in the tent and just fled, not properly dressed to survive.

It should read like below

No. I'm not suggesting that. But it certainly proves that to leave the tent not properly dressed in those weather conditions was like a suicide mission. They must have been really scared of something to do that.

Yes, so what can we conclude from your statement?

We can conclude that leaving the tent in those conditions was like a suicide mission because something was so bad that they feared for their lives in the tent and just fled, not properly dressed to survive.

[GlennM]

This exchange serves to highlight my original post. It is about a translation and interpretation of a thought process. When the group diary puts, " I can't think of...", we have to infer the meaning. Is that meaning relevant to understanding subsequent actions?  So, a comment that states leaving the tent was suicidal as opposed to " like being suicidal" points out the trouble with literal vs figurative language. 

The hikers decision to leave the tent was neither suicidal, nor like suicidal. It was ultimagely fatal. We can argue if it was rational or impulsive. This, in turn involves twirling down to the free will vs fatalism dichotomy.

Getting back to the original post, was the diary entry an admission of poor planning? Was it a backwards way of saying," we can't  suspend our supplies, but perhaps we can bury them?"  Was it saying, " we could next choose to protect our supplies better at the expense of time, or instead,  drat! We have no choice now, we will do what we must,"

The real world effect from the diary entry is that when they left the tent, the cache itself proved to be of no immediate help. By extension, the forest location of the cache was going to be of no immediate help. Passing Boot rock to get to the cache was going to be of no immediate help.

I speculate they went to the woods instead because it put the wind at their backs, gave them a gradient, and promised a higher degree of safety and comfort than what they were leaving behind.

[sarapuk]

This exchange serves to highlight my original post. It is about a translation and interpretation of a thought process. When the group diary puts, " I can't think of...", we have to infer the meaning. Is that meaning relevant to understanding subsequent actions?  So, a comment that states leaving the tent was suicidal as opposed to " like being suicidal" points out the trouble with literal vs figurative language.

I speculate they went to the woods instead because it put the wind at their backs, gave them a gradient, and promised a higher degree of safety and comfort than what they were leaving behind.

And of course, some people are better at language than others. And going to the forest seems like the right thing to do when you are escaping from something terrible. You are unlikely to attempt to go up the slope.

[GlennM]

...and I am not so sure it was terror-able! Terrible suggests running away in fear, but their descent seemed more deliberate. We would say it was terrible knowing what they didn't. Perhaps they saw it, a windblown crush of snow on an unprotected bare slope, as an annoyance, a delay, an inconvenience which would be overcome when the weather abated. Surely returning hungry and a mile trek uphill to dig out the tent was not a fun prospect. Then there was the question of mending the tent before moving on or afterward. I can hear it now, " You were pretty handy  with the knife, let's  see what you can do with a needle and thread!" If it worked out for them, it would be a story to share while toasting vodka in a warm room.