Connection between broken ribs and missing eyes

[Ziljoe]

@senior. I don't think that chart is comparable . There's lots of details missing in the autopsies from a blast wave. The rib fractures are consistent with a compression not a blast?.

[Ziljoe]

Minute‑by‑Minute Reconstruction of the Ravine Four (Plausible Sequence Based on Avalanche Medicine & Autopsy Evidence)

Below is a medically realistic timeline of what likely happened to the ravine four after a snow‑den or cornice collapse. 
It’s not speculation about “mystery forces” — it’s simply what the injuries and physiology point to.

---

0–1 minutes: The collapse
- A section of the snow roof or cornice gives way. 
- Heavy blocks of snow/ice fall into the den or ravine. 
- One block or edge strikes Thibeaux‑Brignolle’s head → single massive skull fracture. 
- Others land on the upper bodies of Dubinina, Zolotaryov, and Kolevatov → initial inward‑bending rib fractures. 
- They are not fully buried; air pockets remain.

---

1–5 minutes: Pinned but alive
- They are conscious, shocked, and trying to orient themselves. 
- Breathing is already restricted because the chest wall is compressed. 
- The heart is still pumping strongly → bleeding begins immediately around the fractures. 
- No external abrasions because the load is snow, not a hard impact surface.

---

5–15 minutes: Hypoxia and hypothermia accelerate
- Snow settles and compacts, increasing chest pressure. 
- Breathing becomes shallow and laboured. 
- Oxygen levels fall → hypoxia. 
- They were already cold; now immobilised in snow, heat loss accelerates. 
- Core temperature drops into the low 30s°C. 
- Clotting begins to fail → cold‑induced coagulopathy starts.

---

15–30 minutes: The “lethal triad” sets in
- Breathing is severely restricted; chest expansion is minimal. 
- Consciousness fades in and out. 
- Physiology deteriorates into the trauma “lethal triad”: 
  - hypothermia 
  - acidosis (from low oxygen) 
  - coagulopathy (clotting failure) 
- Internal bleeding becomes massive because the body can no longer clot. 
- This is when the autopsy‑level haemorrhage is being created.

---

30–60 minutes: Irreversible decline
- Breathing becomes agonal or stops entirely. 
- They are unconscious or unresponsive. 
- The heart continues beating weakly for part of this window → 
  enough to keep pumping blood into damaged tissues, explaining the extensive haemorrhage. 
- Death occurs from a combination of: 
  - asphyxia (chest cannot expand) 
  - hypothermia 
  - internal bleeding

This is not instant suffocation — it is a slow, multi‑factor decline.

---

1–3 hours after death: Post‑mortem settling
- Bodies remain pinned in the same compressed positions. 
- Snow continues to settle and compact around them. 
- Over the following weeks, more snow falls, compresses, and gradually lowers them into the stream channel.

---

February → May: Freeze–thaw and meltwater
- Meltwater eventually begins to flow around and under the bodies. 
- Soft tissue (eyes, mouth, etc.) is lost post‑mortem due to water action and small scavengers. 
- By the time searchers arrive in May, the ravine has opened up and the bodies appear to be “in the stream bed” — 
  but this is the result of months of settling and melt, not their original position on 1 February.

---

Why this timeline fits the evidence
- Inward rib fractures → slow compression, not blast or fall. 
- Massive internal bleeding → they were alive long enough to bleed. 
- No external trauma → snow load, not impact or shrapnel. 
- Skull fracture → single blunt impact from a falling block, not a pressure wave. 
- Final position in the stream bed → natural settling + meltwater, not an impact onto bare rock. 
- Cold‑induced coagulopathy → explains why the injuries look “severe” without requiring extreme force.

[GlennM]

The anaconda of the Urals.

[Senior Maldonado]

There's lots of details missing in the autopsies from a blast wave.

Of course. What are you expecting from the autopsy reports that were produced by Lev Ivanov at Sverdlovsk Prosecutor's office? The reports for Dubinina, Zolotarev, Thibo, and Kolevatov were printed on the same typewriter, on which Ivanov printed Closing statement for the criminal case. AI doesn't tell you about that, does it? To rely on AI advices is even worse than to rely on the tale, which case files tell you. The autopsy reports do not have a single attribute that suggests they had ever been at the Sverdlovsk medical lab. The reports are confirmed only with Vozrozhdenniy's signature on their last pages, the rest of the pages is just plain text not authorised in any way.

The rib fractures are consistent with a compression not a blast.

The ribs and the skull fractures are consistent with the traumatic mechanism suggested by Vozrozhdenniy - strong gust of wind throwing people on the rocks.

Strong gust of wind = blast air wave
Rocks = rocks at the bottom of the creek polished by water

All three affected hikes lie on their traumas exactly.

[Ziljoe]

There's lots of details missing in the autopsies from a blast wave.

Of course. What are you expecting from the autopsy reports that were produced by Lev Ivanov at Sverdlovsk Prosecutor's office? The reports for Dubinina, Zolotarev, Thibo, and Kolevatov were printed on the same typewriter, on which Ivanov printed Closing statement for the criminal case. AI doesn't tell you about that, does it? To rely on AI advices is even worse than to rely on the tale, which case files tell you. The autopsy reports do not have a single attribute that suggests they had ever been at the Sverdlovsk medical lab. The reports are confirmed only with Vozrozhdenniy's signature on their last pages, the rest of the pages is just plain text not authorised in any way.
 lie on their traumas exactly.

Depends on which AI and how you use AI ?. I don't think there's any confirmed evidence that it's the same typewriter, this is speculation with little evidence. The autopsy show no signs of blast injuries, the landscape shows no sign of a blast , your diagram of overpressure of buildings  is a standard illustration used in fire instruction and many other instance's. You have got to look at what happens to a human body in a blast wave and it needs to be stronger blast than your low level blast example .

The rib fractures are consistent with a compression not a blast.

The ribs and the skull fractures are consistent with the traumatic mechanism suggested by Vozrozhdenniy - strong gust of wind throwing people on the rocks.

Strong gust of wind = blast air wave
Rocks = rocks at the bottom of the creek polished by water

All three affected hikes lie on their traumas exactly.

A strong gust of wind is not the same as a blast air wave , we might as well just say a a blast of wind blew them off the ledge of the ravine or the fell into the ravine . However, and I will repeat , there are no signs of blast injuries in the autopsies and the environment that would have been observed or reported .

The rib fractures are quite specific and reflect compression .

[Senior Maldonado]

I don't think there's any confirmed evidence that it's the same typewriter, this is speculation with little evidence.

To what I know, there is confirmed evidence that the last 4 autopsy reports were printed on the typewriter in Prosecutor's office and not in the Medical lab. There is also evidence that hand writings on the copies of the reports, which can be found in the Vol.2, belong to Lev Ivanov. If you are interested, you can easily perform your own expertise. Contact an expert in typewriters and handwriting, whom you trust, and ask him/her to compare the autopsy reports and criminal case closing statement. Also ask to compare proved Ivanov's handwriting with those words written on the copies from Vol.2 with a pen. If you do that, the case files will show you new, hidden side. 

[Ziljoe]

@senior, it would be more useful to present your evidence than to waste time in delaying what you will eventually post. Where or what the case files are printed on has little meaning . The defect on the typewriter is on numerous soviet typewriters for one going back at least to ww2.

There is no hidden new side , there is no blast wave that blasts people without causing extensive damage to trees , ear drums , Internal organs,  clothes etc.

We don't have - pneumothorax 
- hemopneumothorax 
- air embolism 
- mediastinal emphysema 
- subcutaneous emphysema 
- airway hemorrhage 
- alveolar rupture 
- eardrum rupture 
- bowel perforation 
- cardiac contusion  .

Unfortunately I don't have the resources for an expert  and no one is claiming any significance from the alleged copied handwriting or typewriter.

[Senior Maldonado]

The rib fractures are quite specific and reflect compression .

OK. Do you have clear explanation what provided that compression? Was Thibo's skull also compressed?

[Ziljoe]

The rib fractures are quite specific and reflect compression .

OK. Do you have clear explanation what provided that compression? Was Thibo's skull also compressed?

The most likey cause is the snow above them.

[Senior Maldonado]

The most likey cause is the snow above them.

So, what is the logic of the event? The hikers inside the tent were attacked by a snow slab, which cracked their bones, and then they marched 1.5 km downhill to RIP in the ravine? Or the slab just frightened the hikers, they found better location in the ravine, where they immediately digged a tunnel in the snow and thus created even stronger offender than the slab?

[Ziljoe]

The most likey cause is the snow above them.

So, what is the logic of the event? The hikers inside the tent were attacked by a snow slab, which cracked their bones, and then they marched 1.5 km downhill to RIP in the ravine? Or the slab just frightened the hikers, they found better location in the ravine, where they immediately digged a tunnel in the snow and thus created even stronger offender than the slab?

Some sort of snow build up at the tent is the most likely cause for leaving in my opinion.

However, the ravine lends it's self to the incident of rib fractures and the autopsy findings. . We know the ravine can be empty to full depending on the year. . Restricted breathing and compression causes the foaming blood amongst a number of findings.

[Senior Maldonado]

the ravine lends it's self to the incident of rib fractures and the autopsy findings.

So, the lesson with choosing bad location for the tent was not learnt... The next location for the camp, the ravine, provided even worse snow threat. Are we talking about experienced hikers, masters of sport, or about school boys and girls, who do not know how to camp safely? How could Vozrozhdenniy oversee such obvious thing as bodies' compression by snow? He stood together with Ivanov and Tempalov on the ravine's bank in May 1959. Why did he invent air wave and automobile at speed, when the 'killer' (snow) was at his legs?

[Ziljoe]

Unfortunately the lessons for any choice of location of a tent or a route are always susceptible to the weather and conditions . What might be good one day , week or year maybe the wrong location at a different time. History of hiking or tourism in the soviet union is littered with deaths and accidents, some were avalanches. There are a number of less known accidents that just didn't hit the main media. Likewise, every country has had similar accidents by highly qualified hikers or mountaineers.

The chosen location at the ravine is ultimately the only choice , they weren't in a position to choice the ideal penthouses. The clocks ticking and you need to reduce heat loss asap . A logical solution is to build a den with walls and a roof. He didn't invent an air wave or high speed crash, they are just examples. The autopsy is in line with compression more than a blast or car crash.

[GlennM]

Not to mention that you can not collect payment for damages from Nature.

[sarapuk]

Sorry, Ziljoe, the English language was my worst subject at school. I will attempt rectification.

Your English is fine. That's wasn't what I was meaning. It's the editing of the reply post. For some reason your posting your post in the previous person's post so it looks like other people are saying what is actually your post. I too, am poor at English and failed miserably. It's just if you preview your post you can spot the error and put the correct coding in for the end of the quote . I hope that makes sense.

Thankyou. I will try my best.

[GlennM]

 For one do not believe crushing injuries happened at the tent. I do however believe the canvas collapsed on those inside. They, in turn, cut themselves free. Given the conditions of available light, amount of snow, the  uncertainty of additional snow, the risk of crawling back inside the tent for supplies and the uselessness of ski boots when skis skis can't be reached , they opted to get out of the cold, get warm, wait and return.

I can believe serious injuries happened in the ravine owing to their atttempt to create a makeshift cave for up to nine people.

I do not support the idea that a fall onto snow covered ground from a nominal 12 feet perch in a cedar tree is going to kill anyone, let alone two physically fit Soviet hikers.

My idea leans toward bad weather and insufficient resources as the cause for getting them out of the tent. I like the idea that the icy, rocky, slippery and wet slope to the forest created injuries that slowed progress. I think that once people got wet, there was no amount of fire drying of wet clothes that would be sufficient.

The Yuri's  may have tried some sort of heroism in gathering supplies, but they died in the effort most likely not from nor at the cedar.

A possibility exists that Igor and Zolo had a disagreement about next steps in survival. Zolo and other opting for a cave, Igor opting for the tent. Equally, they all could have gone to the ravine and when the collapse happened IRZ left for the tent and what first aid and sledging supplies they had.

As experienced as they all were, I feel they misjudged distances, their own resiliance and the duration of the weather. Of the three it was the weather that decided their fate.