2 Chinese lanterns

[GlennM]

Thank you for your interest in my post. When I say, " follow the money", it comes from my observing patterns of people who advance themselves by using money as a tool.  All behavior is motivated. Money is a powerful motivator. Those motivated by money gain wealth, fame, or anonymity. Beneath that, it makes them feel good.

In the DPI, money buys assasins. Money buys coverups. Money pays for revenge killings. Additionally, money comes from commercial re tellings of an old hiking disaster where the mundane is replaced by the sensational. Emotional currency is a thing too. Defending a point of view which is paid in friendship with someone who is in a stronger position of influence. Think of Huxley as Darwin's bulldog analogy.

When we look back to the historical events, the causes and results of the incident can be understood as the result of decisions made in unforgiving weather.  Only later do we find people unsatisfied with that. This, of course leads to the classic. Who,what,when, why set of questions.

Every single conspiracy theory is founded on somebody being rewarded for their successful efforts to remove a source of irritation. If it is paid assasins, who pays them? If military, who gets to keep their rank or get promoted? If it is a grudge, then there is a paper trail. Etc.etc.

Imagining a conspiracy is easy. It is the invisible glue that connects factual links in the chain of events. Proving the conspiracy devolves into knowing who benefits from it. The beneficiary is also the banker. Follow the money to the banker and the reason becomes clear. All the rest is mundane detail. The longest journey begins with a single step.

[Senior Maldonado]

Quite unusual approach. As snow slab and cornice collapse are indifferent to money, it were them who caused DPI.

[bongyi]

In that sense, there is no difference between a conspiracy or anything else! In general, we must assume some kind of advantage as a motive for any action. This advantage is conceivable in many ways and it does not make sense to refer to it as money. And it's not a conspiracy-specific thing at all

When we look back to the historical events, the causes and results of the incident can be understood as the result of decisions made in unforgiving weather.  Only later do we find people unsatisfied with that. This, of course leads to the classic. Who,what,when, why set of questions.

E.g, the relatives soon talked about a missile accident. Obviously, chronologically, ideas appear earlier that are easier to imagine : an avalanche or murder. But from the fact that Lyuda's father talks about the missile accident in the police report, when the 5s are found, but his daughter is not yet there, it is clear that they were forced to assume something else from the beginning, and they did not find what happened to be explained at all by the harsh weather - unlike you.

[Hunter]

Ziljoe

That is part is what is written in  case file 385. I'm sure you can see what is in the case file.

The criminal case file doesn't contain the photograph Ivanov cites. Moreover, it doesn't contain a single photograph taken according to the regulations of the time. The exception is Churkina's forensic analysis. Therefore, the photograph in question is a big question; we can only assume, with a very high degree of certainty, that it's the one where certain figures appear to be digging a hole for a tent.

[GlennM]

Maldanado makes my point and Bongi thinks of currency only as money.

To put it is another light think altruism. That is doing a deed without the prospect of reward or recognition after doing somebody a favor. The DP9 were not candidates for a mercy killing.

If you insist on a point of view which covers up the deaths, I advise you to follow the  money. In conspiracies there is always a beneficiary. No exceptions.

[Hunter]

In our case, we must also consider the peculiarities of the Soviet political system, where every negative development was swept under the rug, meaning it couldn't be used in political and ideological confrontation. Therefore, some emergency situations could be kept under wraps, just in case. The same thing happened here: the Dyatlov affair could have negatively impacted the ruling party's image, and if necessary, it could have been spinned as a political affair.

[GlennM]

Hunter, thanks for reinforcing my point. By suppressing the hiking incident and lopping off a few administrative heads, so to speak, a price was paid for the deadly incident.This happened irrespective of the cause, which I contend was stormy weather. This face saving move served to deflect responsibility from the Soviet administration and protect the security, prestige and power of  those who could be removed for political reasons. In short, they still get paid.

[amashilu]

If you haven't seen the movie about the Chernobyl disaster, it's enlightening in its depiction of the Russian govt's need to present itself as perfect at all times and never admit a mistake .....  allowing radiation to leak into Europe without telling or warning anyone just so their perfect facade was not tarnished. What radiation? Nothing to see here, everything is perfect. I believe it was Sweden who first noticed high radiation rates and started an investigation. It would not be out of character at all for the Russian govt. to have treated the troubling DPI incident in the same way. But I don't think "follow the money" is relevant here because there is no reward, only anxiety and hush-up.

[GlennM]

This is a good example. My interpretation is that the discovery and remediation of the Chernobyl meltdown was very, very costly. The cover up was costly, the reveal was costly and the remediation is costly. Who paid for it and who suffered because of it? The incomplete answer is it was just the Soviet citizenry.

Back to the DPI. Everyone knows I advocate for this as a natural disaster, pure and simple. What most do not appreciate is I have given the necessary  tools to conspiracy buffs. The tools do not work themselves, but they work every time. They are 1. All behavior is motivated 2.Follow the money. 3. The "how" does not explain "why". 4. Truth and logic are not synomous. 5. Evidence must be valid and reliable.

Conspiracy buffs can use the tools I have provided. They will eventually come to the  singular conclusion they do not know all the facts. Then,they make them up. Some people honestly want to get at their version of the truth. They want to be paid for it in reputation, or publishing royalties. Neither is criminal, but as we well know that is not the whole story.

If it helps, think of money as,currency and think of currency as not just money.

[bongyi]

@GlennM
I lived under a Soviet-style administration and I assume @Hunter did too! I have direct experience of how this system works!

The Gyatlov incident cannot be interpreted separately from the Soviet administration.

We knew about Chernobyl right away. I live in a neighboring country.  My mother worked in an institute where the increased radiation was immediately registered. It wasn't dangerous for us, the wind wasn't blowing towards us. We were lucky. But we knew much earlier than it was announced on the news.

[GlennM]

What is the point you are trying to make? Is it that Soviet leaders want to keep their power and wealth? Follow the money .They wished to keep their moneg and power by blaming someone else. It was no conspiracy to destroy Chernobyl. It was hubris, or conceited pride that started the problem.

You claim the power plant failure was no secret and soon detected. When it was revealed, did any Soviet leader throw himself on his ceremonial sword as a sacrfice for his sin? No! Everyone scrambled to protect their self interest and blame someone else.

Did you note that in the DPI, did this behavior happen? Yes it did and the director of the Sports Club was removed. Was he blamed for a conspiracy? Assasins? Rocket crash? No. There was no conspiracy, only an accident of Nature and a scape goat at the UPI.

[SURI]

Did you note that in the DPI, did this behavior happen? Yes it did and the director of the Sports Club was removed. Was he blamed for a conspiracy? Assasins? Rocket crash? No. There was no conspiracy, only an accident of Nature and a scape goat at the UPI.

Yet, Ivanov chose him and one more person from the entire list—even after 30 years!—and named them as the ultimate culprits of the entire incident. They kept silent, they kept quiet, and they profited from it. Surely you understand what that implies. And if it were even remotely possible, they would have been arrested.


Here is the key source:

"But there were those for whom silence was beneficial. First of all, the director /or whatever his name was/ Gordo was silent. He was one of the culprits of the detachment making a lot of mistakes. The head of the city sports committee /I don't remember his last name/ was silent, because he was also guilty of the detachment being "semi-wild", moving into the stage of "wildness" at the final stage.

I was quite surprised that at the bureau these two absolutely guilty people in the death of the guys were slightly punished, I think they were given a reprimand. And this meant that it was impossible to bring them to criminal responsibility, because They were members of the CPSU, and until very recently, until 1986, the Instruction of the Central Committee of the CPSU and the instructional letter of the Central Committee of the All-Union Communist Party (Bolsheviks) and the Council of People's Commissars of the USSR, signed by Stalin and Molotov in 1939 on the issue of eliminating serious distortions in the fight against enemies of the people, were in effect. This letter said that many cases of unjustified prosecution of people were allowed at the local level, abuses were allowed in the NKGB and NKVD bodies in this matter, and it was proposed that a member of the All-Union Communist Party (Bolsheviks) could be brought to criminal responsibility only with the consent of the party committee, and he could be arrested only with the personal sanction of the first secretary. /only the first secretary wrote a resolution and the seal of the district or city committee was put on it/. So, the city and regional committees did not give such consent to bring these two people to justice. And that's it, the issue is resolved."

That is not how you talk about a scapegoat!

[bongyi]

Yet, Ivanov chose him and one more person from the entire list—even after 30 years!—and named them as the ultimate culprits of the entire incident. They kept silent, they kept quiet, and they profited from it. Surely you understand what that implies. And if it were even remotely possible, they would have been arrested.

No just Ivanov, but Lyuda's father also accused these people. I think Ivanov is trying to divert attention from his own responsibility.

[GlennM]

The elephant in the room is one of interpretation. The DP9 were not deliberately sent to their death any more than the Blinov group was. Finding a fall guy comes next.