December 06, 2019, 08:45:31 AM
Dyatlov Pass Forum

Author Topic: Nitrogen dioxide slowly converts to Nitric acid on contact  (Read 10646 times)

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October 08, 2018, 06:04:28 AM
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Nigel Evans


Hi there it's been awhile.

I thought i'd introduce a new theory, hope this is the correct place on the site for it.

The theory explains why they fled the tent so quickly, were forced to stay away, Doroshenko's foaming mouth, the orange skin of some team members and some aspects of Chivruay.

It's all about the tent containing toxic levels of nitrogen dioxide gas.
The problem with NO2 is that on contact with mucous membranes it slowly converts into nitric acid which has life threatening consequences. Note the slowly bit.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrogen_dioxide_poisoning
"Nitrogen dioxide is sparingly soluble in water and on inhalation, it diffuses into the lung and slowly hydrolyzes to nitrous and nitric acid which causes pulmonary edema and pneumonitis leading to the inflammation of the bronchioles and pulmonary alveolus resulting from lipid peroxidation and oxidative stress.[25] "

Also - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitric_acid
"Concentrated nitric acid stains human skin yellow due to its reaction with the keratin. These yellow stains turn orange when neutralized"

So the theory is that the members of the tent suffered strong exposure to NO2. This forced them to cut openings in the tent for ventilation before giving up and cutting open the tent to escape. Then they had no choice but to abandon the tent and head to the forest to seek shelter.

Subsequently Doroshenko died early of pulmonary edema and some members of the party demonstrated orange skin at their funerals.

So where did the NO2 come from?  There are two possibilities both of which rely on the fact that the level base for the tent was produced by cutting down through the snow layer to the ground below (or close enough).

1. A curious version of silo fillers disease. The layer of snow was trapping NO2 build up from the decaying grass (silage) possibly over a wide area of the mountain. Cutting through the snow to pitch the tent "took the stopper out of the bottle" and the tent slowly filled with a toxic level of NO2.

2. Atmospheric microwaves. One of the strongest theories to explain ball lightning (and perhaps the golden orbs known to frequent the region) is microwave energy. - https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/periodically-i-hear-stori/
A by product of microwave energy is the production of ozone and nitrogen oxides including NO2. Now if these gas molecules are ionised and the mountain has the correct polarity then the gas molecules will tend to descend to earth by electrical attraction. But not if the mountain is covered by an insulating blanket of snow. However if you pierce this insulating blanket (with a tent) then the above electrical attraction will be focused on a very small area greatly concentrating the gases.

NO2 is heavier than air so it follows that if there was a slight gradient or more across the floor of the tent then there would be the "unlucky end" where the gas would build up the worst. This offers an explanation for Doroshenko's early death - he was sat/lying at this worst position and suffered the most exposure. Have a look at this photo - https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Dyatlov-pass-funerals-9-march-1959-36.jpg under maximum zoom and do you agree that Yuri's face is significantly darker than Zina's? It would fit with this theory that he suffered the worst exposure and died quickly. The nitric acid conversion in his lungs being slow enough to permit him to make his way down the mountain before he died. This also helps explain perhaps why Igor was vomiting but others weren't.

Another photo supporting the NO2 theory imo is the morgue photo of Lyudmila. Notice the area of the chin is completely white from being protected by tight clothing but that there is a graduating scale of light/dark on the forehead to the scalp were vapour would partially stain the skin under a hood.

CHIVRUAY

I don't know a lot about this event but reading the article on this site the following caught my eye :-
1. The darkening of the skin of those that died in the Northern Urals is identical to those that died in the Chivruay tragedy.
Enter the NO2 theory...

2. "The remaining five, hoping that the scouts would return soon, spread out the tent and lay down on top of it. They could not pitch up the tent because of the strong wind.".
I would suggest that the five that lay on top of the tent had become incapacitated (like Doroshenko) and had to be left whilst the others sought help and they didn't seek shelter within the tent (pitched or even unpitched) because they recognised that the interior of the tent had poisoned them earlier so they thought it was safer to lie on it rather than in it even thought inside would afford much more shelter.


October 08, 2018, 10:21:04 PM
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Loose}{Cannon

Global Moderator
Glad you made it Nigel, I enjoy reading your theories and explanations.

All interesting things to ponder, but I have the feeling you don't actually believe gas escaping from beneath the snow caused by fermentation of organic substances 'grass' to be a feasible possibility.  I am under the assumption you have already calulated most if not all readers will reach form the same option and subsequently be left only with the option of 'Ball Lightening' as a source for the gas. 

I would argue that 'if' they were poisoned with 'any' gas substance, there can be multiple other sources of the gas, all having nothing to do with BL.
All theories are flawed.......    Get Behind Me Satan !!!

October 09, 2018, 05:03:47 AM
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Nigel Evans


Hi there.

I'm open minded about the source of the gas but it's true that high winds in a snowstorm create good electrical conditions and of course BL is a solution for the ravine deaths.

But i think the NO2 is the one to beat given that it fits well with the DPI also explains some unusual features of Chivruay (also high winds 50m/s!).

October 09, 2018, 05:20:36 AM
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Nigel Evans



October 09, 2018, 01:41:27 PM
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sarapuk

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Nitrogen Dioxide and  similar gases are highly unlikely to be the reason that the Dyatlov Group left their Tent and left behind the means of survival.
DB

October 09, 2018, 02:27:16 PM
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Loose}{Cannon

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Nitrogen Dioxide and  similar gases are highly unlikely to be the reason that the Dyatlov Group left their Tent and left behind the means of survival.

Perhaps, but please articulate a reason as to why.  Its easy for someone to simply post a blanketing statement within every thread/theory they dont subscribe to, but adding more detail or explaining why you think/believe what you do can actually lend credit to your opinion. 
All theories are flawed.......    Get Behind Me Satan !!!

October 10, 2018, 12:36:15 AM
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Nigel Evans


>sarapuk

As LC says what are your reasons?

October 10, 2018, 03:03:40 PM
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sarapuk

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Apologies, you are correct, I should at least add a little by way of my reasoning.  NO2 is a common pollutant usually formed by burning fossil fuels, including coal, oil and gas. People usually have to worry about nitrogen dioxide over a long period of time at low levels — for instance, from gas stoves at home. Prolonged exposure can lead to coughing and wheezing.  Exposure to high concentrations may be fatal. So surely any contact with NO2 at the Tent wouldnt have resulted in all the subsequent actions of the Dyatlov Group. NO2 wouldnt affect their brains to the extent that all subsequent actions follow on. In other words if they got out of their tent because of this gas poisoning they would still be able to gather their senses and collect all their gear , instead of heading off down hill half naked without their gear, which of course is what they did, by all accounts.
DB

October 11, 2018, 02:27:22 AM
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Nigel Evans


@sarapuk.

Yes you make a good point, even if forced to suddenly exit the tent due to acrid gas, why not hold your nose and return to collect stuff particularly footwear, Dyatlov's jacket pushed into a hole and the second flashlight on the outside of the tent?

But i don't think you're considering the right scale for this. Forget low level pollution etc and think more like WW1 soldiers in a mustard gas attack. Except this one is coming out of the sky or out of the ground. If the NO2 has had time to affect the lungs (conversion into nitric acid) then the same applies to the eyes.

Two other things that come to mind for the microwave theory is that the electrical potential could be lighting up the tent with St Elmo's fire and they could be hearing a loud noise like the sound of chains.

But it's a good point whatever it was forced them to get out and then stay away.



October 11, 2018, 01:14:49 PM
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sarapuk

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Well I suppose that if it was a WW1 type of event then gas of some kind would most likely get them out of the Tent. But what about the other things that followed. Are the other things isolated events or part of the one event  !  ?  If they are part of the one event then gas can not explain the serious injuries that some of the group suffered.
DB

October 11, 2018, 01:51:04 PM
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Nigel Evans


Gas contamination could explain why the "returning three" were so tightly grouped later on. Their lung function being reduced to the extent that their cardio vascular systems couldn't handle the uphill effort. However Rustem had internal bleeding like Semyon and Lyudmila so he wasn't going far anyway. Of course the ravine four died from some form of high energy trauma difficult to connect with gas :).

October 14, 2018, 04:10:13 PM
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sarapuk

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But can we say for sure that those 3 were returning to the Tent  ! ?  Maybe thats for another Topic such as sequence of events. 
DB

October 15, 2018, 03:55:00 AM
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Nigel Evans


"Returning 3" is just to identify that group, but it's a good assumption that they were the last ones to live.

October 15, 2018, 01:20:57 PM
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sarapuk

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Why is it a good assumption that they were the last ones to live  !  ?
DB

October 15, 2018, 11:05:25 PM
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Nigel Evans


Because it fits the facts the best. Rustem was in the returning 3 group but had a similar (but milder) injury to the ravine 4 (chest trauma).

October 16, 2018, 03:27:30 PM
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sarapuk

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Well I suppose as an assumption of facts it could work both ways ie they could be going up or down the slope, no way of knowing for sure. Those injuries to Rustem Slobodin's head were serious injuries.  Any way I think this can be better discussed in the SEQUENCE OF EVENTS TOPIC.
DB

November 10, 2018, 04:16:08 AM
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Nigel Evans


What was odd about the area where Rustem’s body was found was a stream which ran down the mountainside and led into a large open area of shallow water which had a weird gigantic crust of ice across the top of it. It was not a single flat sheet of ice, rather it was a hexagonal, honeycomb type of texture. Each of the honeycomb shapes had dips in it which had a red colour in the middle of it. Alexey the Officer said to me that he was not sure what caused the red colour in the middle of the hexacomb shapes. The red had soaked into the ice and Alexey said it could be caused by the red berries that came down with the water while one or two people said it could have been caused by chemicals. It was obviously worth investigating because one of the many theories in relation to the deaths concerned the presence of dangerous chemicals in the area. Someone mentioned rocket fuel but it was not immediately apparent how it would have got on top of the ice and there was an awful lot of the red marking over the whole sheet of ice which measured roughly 18 to 21metres (60 to 70 feet) long and about 65 metres (20ft) across.

McCloskey, Keith. Journey to Dyatlov Pass: An Explanation of the Mystery (pp. 49-50). Keith McCloskey. Kindle Edition.

NO2 is a reddish brown colour.. Just saying.

November 13, 2018, 07:22:59 PM
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CalzagheChick


What's up with the hexagonal/honeycomb ice?

November 14, 2018, 10:57:36 AM
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Nigel Evans




Ice crystals are naturally hexagonal and can get quite big.


N.B. that photo came from Mt Erebus in Antarctica which is the world's most southerly volcano and warm air heats the interior of ice caves.  So maybe microwaves are involved?.... Pity we don't have some photos from the DP and he didn't collect some samples for testing.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2018, 11:10:22 AM by Nigel Evans »

November 23, 2018, 09:02:39 AM
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Nigel Evans



December 04, 2018, 03:07:16 AM
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Nigel Evans


http://www.strangehistory.net/2014/03/08/russian-fireball-weirdness-1663/
Note the mention of - "the water seemed to be covered with rust under the reddish light", a good fit for NO2 vapour condensing on the surface?

December 04, 2018, 09:55:44 AM
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Loose}{Cannon

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All theories are flawed.......    Get Behind Me Satan !!!

December 04, 2018, 10:23:59 AM
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Nigel Evans



December 04, 2018, 10:40:47 AM
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Loose}{Cannon

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All theories are flawed.......    Get Behind Me Satan !!!

December 04, 2018, 10:51:01 AM
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Nigel Evans



December 05, 2018, 06:41:59 PM
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Jacques-Emile


Unfortunately, a fine idea is cut down by meager fact.
NO2 did not exist.  Below 21C it becomes liquid N2O4. At -11C dinitrogen tetroxide freezes rock-hard.
Unless one posits relativistic phonon supersymmetry or such gobbledygook, NO2 is only useful as a bludgeon in these temperatures.

December 06, 2018, 01:13:26 AM
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Nigel Evans


Unfortunately, a fine idea is cut down by meager fact.
NO2 did not exist.  Below 21C it becomes liquid N2O4. At -11C dinitrogen tetroxide freezes rock-hard.
Unless one posits relativistic phonon supersymmetry or such gobbledygook, NO2 is only useful as a bludgeon in these temperatures.
Yes i've just made that point on Star man's thread. But within a volume of microwave energy things would warm up? And this would raise the temperature of the snow closer to it's melt point (>-11C) allowing the formation of sastrugi and of footsteps that lasted for weeks? I would favour a mist/aerosol.

December 06, 2018, 01:52:36 AM
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Nigel Evans


Also ozone - BP -112C could keep them away from the tent.

December 06, 2018, 05:05:17 AM
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Jacques-Emile


Also ozone - BP -112C could keep them away from the tent.
And immediately bleach the tent white. Why are we playing this silly game? What's next, reindeer farts?

December 06, 2018, 05:56:26 AM
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Nigel Evans


What's next, reindeer farts?
At last a half decent contribution from you to solving this mystery. I'll give you 2 / 10 for effort.