Carbon 14 is a beta emitter and occurs naturally

[Nigel Evans]

Regarding radioactivity the full text is bertter :-
But if the indigenous people killed everyone, then why were some of the clothes of the victims contaminated with radioactivity? A possible explanation can be found in the diaries. Lyuda wrote: ‘After breakfast, some of the lads, headed by Yuri Yudin, our well-known geologist, went to look for local minerals. They didn’t find anything except pyrite and quartz veins in the rock.’ Pyrite is a mineral regularly found in the Urals. But it isn’t only pyrite, gold and silver that are found in these mountains. There is also uranium ore, which gives off radioactivity, and which most likely fouled the hikers’ trousers and sweaters with radioactive dust.  In the notebooks of journalist Grygoriev, who took part in the rescue operation, there is the following entry: All the backpacks have bits and pieces of rocks … Vishnevsky told me that they were for striking fire in case their matches got damp. I disagreed because I saw that they were rocks taken from the 2nd Severny camp.

Oss, Svetlana. Don't Go There: Post Mortem (pp. 206-207). LiberWriter.com. Kindle Edition.

[Loose}{Cannon]

 The articles of clothing that were contaminated belonged to individuals that worked with and handled radioactive substances for a living.   Mystery solved.

[Jacques-Emile]

So sorry, but sloppy. See thread here on radioactivity

When determining the type of radiation, it is established that the activity takes place due to beta particles . Alpha particles and gamma quanta were not detected.

Uranium is alpha emitter. Uranium not present.

[Nigel Evans]

Uranium is alpha emitter. Uranium not present.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon-14
Interesting that high energy radiation (cosmic rays) and lightning can produce it.  Hmmm

[Nigel Evans]

The radiation on the clothing was determined to be beta.

and carbon 14 occurs naturally by exposing nitrogen (most common element in air) to high energy radiation (cosmic rays) and electricity (lightning bolts).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon-14

[Nigel Evans]

Of course it is quite possible that the contamination came from some of the members occupations.

[Loose}{Cannon]

We have no idea what substances these two individuals were working with, and I would presume it wouldn't be limited to uranium alone. 

If I recall, the levels detected were BARELY above normal environment levels.  No?

[Nigel Evans]

We have no idea what substances these two individuals were working with, and I would presume it wouldn't be limited to uranium alone. 

If I recall, the levels detected were BARELY above normal environment levels.  No?

The individuals would have probably encountered strontium - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_beta_emitters
The issue with the radiation is the water test that could be interpreted as showing that the initial levels (before being in immersed in flowing meltwater for some time) were very high.

[Jacques-Emile]

Physics asks how much as well as what is.

Carbon-14 may also be produced by lightning bolts but in the amounts negligible compared to cosmic rays.

Humans have 4,000 Bq beta decay from body potassium, and 3,700 from 14C. The amounts of radiation on clothing was less than 10,000 Bq, less than twice what each person's body created.
Potassium-rich meltwater running over minerals could explain all.
Strontium-90 is product nuclear reactor's or weapons. Why there in Urals?

[Nigel Evans]

Carbon-14 may also be produced by lightning bolts but in the amounts negligible compared to cosmic rays.
Yes but what if some unusual high energy electro magnetic phenomena is occurring at ground level?
 
Potassium-rich meltwater running over minerals could explain all.
Agreed :-
The materials examined contained radioactive traces within normal limits of the natural content for the potassium 40 isotope.
Oss, Svetlana. Don't Go There: Post Mortem (p. 104). LiberWriter.com. Kindle Edition.

Strontium-90 is product nuclear reactor's or weapons. Why there in Urals?
Because some of the group worked at nuclear sites or had done recently.

[Jacques-Emile]

Sorry, no chance. Magical thinking.

[sarapuk]

Well it would help if we had some of those mineral samples to test, but unfortunately along with so many other things, they are missing. How can we know if those samples were in any way radioactive  !  ? 

[Nigel Evans]

Sorry, no chance. Magical thinking.

Someone's written a paper that might be magical. - https://www.researchgate.net/publication/278349012_Carbon-14_synthesis_using_microwaves

[Nigel Evans]

and here's the wand (perhaps :) - http://www.freepatentsonline.com/y2003/0026375.html

[Jacques-Emile]

Magical thinking. A thousand trillion magical new atoms of Carbon 14 is the same as background radiation.
Imagine it was the Black knight of the Vaviarga.. Better magic

[Nigel Evans]

Google's magic doesn't extend to explaining the Black knight of the Vaviarga, but it told me about carbon14 synthesis...

Good point wrt sloppy thinking.

[Jacques-Emile]

Magical thinking. Your "paper" is in an UN-reviewed scientific latrine of a journal auth no citations, no references to it - and no available text!!  Explain what this nonsense claims, ok?

[Jacques-Emile]

Also patent is sheer lunacy by crock who does not understand the slightest bit of quantum physics. Microwave? Nonsense. No wonder nobody can solve anything in case. The nuts barge in and muss up everything.

[Loose}{Cannon]

Nigel, Don't you have a degree in physics?

[Nigel Evans]

Yes. But 40 years ago. I've been a software developer ever since.
So i have more understanding than authority :)
 
 

[Jacques-Emile]

So 14N transmutation to 14C and the opposite take place by specific events. What are those called?
If you become entranced by falsehood, and that makes you believe in your own falsehoods, why is anyone else expected to take you seriously?

[Nigel Evans]

So 14N transmutation to 14C and the opposite take place by specific events. What are those called?
If you become entranced by falsehood, and that makes you believe in your own falsehoods, why is anyone else expected to take you seriously?

I've applied for the above paper which hasn't arrived yet and you may well be correct in your (low) opinion of it.

It's my opinion that it is probable that a full understanding of these phenomena belongs to the science of the future and that the "journey to full understanding" will leave a lot of falsehoods in it's wake. But i like the microwave soliton theory and Wu's relativistic electrons particularly wrt rollers which would seem to explain the strong mechanical energy. Rollers are my favourite guess at the cause of the DPI. If one came close enough to break a ski pole they would exit very rapidly and that's what the mysterious photos are of.

So to answer your question, i don't know (and if i did i might be a candidate for a Nobel prize? :).
But i do know that a small percentage of cosmic rays are high energy photons and it is now understood that lightning bolts produce positrons that annihilate with X rays, so there would seem to be a plausible path there to carbon14 production in some quantity. As to explaining the required scale well maybe that belongs to the science of the future (or not).

As we don't know the isotope(s) involved in the DPI and as you say potassium would offer an explanation anyway then this discussion isn't very important wrt understanding the DPI. But it's an interesting spin off.

[sarapuk]

Shall we just say that there were RADIATION levels found at the Dyatlov Pass area that were considered relevant to the investigation, but no more came of it.  And no more came of it because the investigation was abruptly brought to an end.

[Nigel Evans]

Shall we just say that there were RADIATION levels found at the Dyatlov Pass area that were considered relevant to the investigation, but no more came of it.  And no more came of it because the investigation was abruptly brought to an end.

The radiation levels on the clothing can be explained as being of natural origin. Any attempt to look beyond this is of academic interest only.

[Star man]

So sorry, but sloppy. See thread here on radioactivity

When determining the type of radiation, it is established that the activity takes place due to beta particles . Alpha particles and gamma quanta were not detected.

Uranium is alpha emitter. Uranium not present.

Hmm are you sure that no gamma radiation was detected along with the beta?  Because Strontium 90 , by-product of fission reactions is a specific beta emitter only and decays with little to no gamma radiation.  Did they analyses for any isotopes?

[Star man]

Sounds very much like strontium 90 to me.  Ifmonly we could analyse those tree rings for it.

[sarapuk]

So sorry, but sloppy. See thread here on radioactivity

When determining the type of radiation, it is established that the activity takes place due to beta particles . Alpha particles and gamma quanta were not detected.

Uranium is alpha emitter. Uranium not present.

Hmm are you sure that no gamma radiation was detected along with the beta?  Because Strontium 90 , by-product of fission reactions is a specific beta emitter only and decays with little to no gamma radiation.  Did they analyses for any isotopes?

Thats a good point. I guess only the Authorities can answer that type of question though. And they havnt done so far as far as I know.

[Monika]

The whole issue with radioactive contamination is strange.
- If it was the result of workplace contamination of two members of Dyatlovs, I would expect it to be on other parts of their clothing, also on their hair and body. And not just on their trousers.
- And I doubt that when working with radioactive material (even at a low concentration), they would wear a pair of hiking pants and jacket at the workplace. If they worked with even a weak radioactive material, they had to change into work clothes.
- Also, the contaminations in the air directly at the place of the Dyatlov pass incident I would expect whole body to be contaminated.
- And as has been said, the radiation level was low, but after several months in water flow in ravine it was washed way. This indicates that the original concentration had to be very high. But why just on the trousers???

[Nigel Evans]

- And as has been said, the radiation level was low, but after several months in water flow in ravine it was washed way. This indicates that the original concentration had to be very high.

Or it was just always low....

[Star man]

I suppose there is only one way that we will ever find out and that is if someone analyses tree ring samples and soil core samples for strontium 90.